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Surprise Your Opponent: Undiscovered Threats

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by DittoCrow, Nov 23, 2012.

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  1. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    Sorry for the double post but a friend of mine really wanted me to mention this, he has way more playing experience with it than me, but ive watched enough matches and used it myself enough to know that its solid.

    [​IMG]
    Altaria (F) @Choice Specs
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 Spa / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Fire Blast
    - Rest

    1) Hits hard despite Base 70 SpA, due to RU's lack of Dragon-type resists with good special defense (or just straight out taken out by Fire Blast)
    2) Great bulk. Its Dragon/Flying typing along with its 75/90/105 defenses allow it to pivot around a bunch of Pokemon, including the dreaded Nidoqueen.
    3) As stated above Altaria is capable of pivoting around Nidoqueen. It can switch into Earth Power, Thunderbolt, and Fire Blast without any trouble. It can take a Sludge Wave even after Stealth Rock if it really has to.
    4) The offensive nature in RU means that if Altaria can come in, a Draco Meteor is sure to deal substancial damage to anything.
    5) Makes a niche check to various Grass-types, among other things
    6) Natural cure is boss and gives Altaria a way to fully heal itself via rest, while also allowing it to absorb status from mons like Amoonguss and Lilligant.

    It can probably run some other sets as well like a SpD spread or even Dragon Dance, but Specs is the best set by far.
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    col49, your Kangaskhan looks like the perfect teammate for Normal or Fighting spam teams; I'm pretty sure Zangoose, Tauros, Medicham, etc would appreciate having Ghosts worn down by Kanga. I personally prefer Crush Claw and Double Edge > Fake Out and Return for that 50% chance of wallbreaking even the likes of Tangrowth, but Fake Out lead to kill Smeargle is also appealing.

    Molk, I am not sold with this Specs Altaria set - I'm pretty sure Slowking or Cryogonal can tank it with ease. You'd definitely want it to pair it with a Pursuit-trapper
  3. New Breed

    New Breed BIG MONEY
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    I can attest to the viability of Specs Altaria, I used it in a dual Dragon core with Druddigon to wear down Steel types and then late game sweep with LO Klinklang. It was a pretty effective offensive check to Nidoqueen, being able to OHKO after SR and having little trouble switching into Nidoqueen barring random Ice Beams.

    I didn't run it with Pursuit but I ran with hazards, I managed to beat quite a few of the TR Slowkings as they could not touch me while I 3KO with Dragon Pulse. The Dragon/Flying typing is really nice and gives you plenty of opportunities to switch in, It may not be able to OHKO many of the Special Walls but it did have that surprise factor that got me many KO's on random offensive Pokemon and Physical Walls.

    Overall it was pretty cool to use and I will probably use it again, good find Molk :)
  4. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    Yeah, pursuit support really helps Altaria out with the special tanks in the tier such as Slowking and Clefable that can take its Draco Meteors with ease and recover off the damage, Cryogonal doesnt work too well against Altaria though, as Draco Meteor 2hkos Cryogonal after Stealth Rock, and Fire Blast doesnt even need any hazards to score a 2HKO on it. If your still not sold on Altaria, ill provide you with a few damage calculations to show just how powerful Draco Meteor is, even off of such a pitiful Special Attack stat. Here are a few reasonably bulky/resistant to Dragon Pokemon getting hit by Draco Meteor:

    Altaria Strongth (open)
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Altaria Draco Meteor vs. 40 HP / 216+ SpD Lanturn: 222-262 (55.36 - 65.33%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Altaria Draco Meteor vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Aggron: 189-223 (60.96 - 71.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Altaria Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Nidoqueen: 288-339 (89.44 - 105.27%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Altaria Draco Meteor vs. 88 HP / 84 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 270-318 (72.38 - 85.25%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    252+ SpA Choice Specs Altaria Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 68+ SpD Cryogonal: 168-198 (48.97 - 57.72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Altaria Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Slowking: 229-271 (58.26 - 68.95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


    252+ SpA Choice Specs Altaria Draco Meteor vs. 12 HP / 252+ SpD Hariyama: 246-291 (56.94 - 67.36%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Altaria Draco Meteor vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Gallade: 222-262 (67.88 - 80.12%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock



    of course, while Altaria is pretty strong due to her high BP moves, you are correct in saying that there she does have her limits, and needs some team support to get past that. Many specially bulky Pokemon can take Altaria's Draco Meteor for about 50% or so and Recover off the damage, defensive Slowking being an important one. She also struggles with power issues when she isnt using Draco Meteor or a super effective Fire Blast, although Dragon Pulse is still strong enough to 2HKO most frailer threats at worst.
  5. col49

    col49 what.
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    I do agree Pocket, I've used Kangaskan on Normal / Fighting-type spam teams and its served admirably. Admittedly I haven't tried Crush Claw>Fake Out, since when not played overzealously (ie.clicking Fake Out every time it comes in) Fake Out is a really nice utility for getting a little "free damage" to push certain KO's, though the ability to power through stuff with a Defense drop does sound interesting.

    Also, while not using Specstaria per say in RU, I have run a similar set before (DMeteor/Fire Blast/Roost/[Power Split/Roar] w/LO), and it is a pretty cool 'mon, and its nice natural bulk and resistances really make up for its lack of immediate power, allowing it to retain value throughout a match and not get worn down particularly well.
  6. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
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    [​IMG]
    Arbok @ Life Orb
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Coil
    - Earthquake
    - Gunk Shot
    - Sucker Punch

    Arbok is a really cool pokemon ATM. Thanks to its decent defensive typing and intimidate, it doesn't have that much difficulty getting a Coil boost, and from there you can start shredding the large majority of the metagame. Gunk Shot is incredibly powerful at +1, and the mons that resist its poison stab are normally hit very hard by earthquake, which includes the omnipresent Nidoqueen. Sucker Punch is an excellent priority move, and stops the likes of weakened Galvantula and Manectric from ruining your sweep, and can prevent some psychic types such as Gardevoir from revenge killing you. Arbok is also a cool check to Sceptile and other grass types thanks to its poison typing(as long as Gunk Shot hits), as it is neutral at best to the majority of their coverage moves.

    IMO, Arbok is best used on a Spikes stacking team, as many of arbok's best counters, such as Steelix and Rhydon take lots of damage from spikes. Smeargle is a great team mate in that regard, as it can easily set-up spikes and stealth rock against the majority of teams on the ladder. I pair it with moltres, which also really likes the spikes damage and can lure in rhydon and 2HKO it with HP Grass, and destroy steelix with ease. Moltres is also immune to Earthquake, and Arbok can deal heavy damage to Lanturn with Earthquake. I also like to pair it with Klinklang, as Arbok plus spikes and stealth rock dents the majority of klinklang counters enough that klinklang can sweep late-game. Klinklang can also set-up on some of the ghost types used to stop Arbok, such as the mighty Dusknoir, as well as some psychic types like Uxie, while Arbok can easily set-up on fighting types not named Gallade which are sometimes used to revenge kill Klinklang. Arbok also works nicely with Gallade, as Gallade can heavily dent rhydon and steelix, while Arbok can happily set-up on Spiritomb and smash tangrowth with Gunk Shot.

    Although Arbok has its weaknesses-its not that bulky on the special side, is relatively slow for a sweeper, is countered by most bulky ground types-I've found it to be a pretty great wallbreaker and thanks to intimidate can also neutralise some very dangerous pokes in this metagame, such as Cincinno and Absol.
  7. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    [​IMG]
    Shiftry (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Sucker Punch
    - Seed Bomb
    - Nature Power

    So just yesterday i was really bored, so i decided to look through NU to see if i could find a Pokemon that might perform well in RU, after a little bit of searching i stumbled across shiftry, and after playtesting it for a little bit im actually really damn surprised it gets pretty much no usage in the RU tier (i mean goddamn Wartortle is used more than it smh lol). So anyway, Shiftry is a pretty versatile offensive threat when it comes down to it, backed up with solid 100/90 mixed attacking stats, powerful priority in Sucker Punch, and access to both Swords Dance and Nasty Plot along with two great STABs and a good offensive movepool in general. Shiftry even has Chlorophyll, making it an exceptionally deadly option on manual sun teams, especially when there are great options for setting up sun in a pinch such as Uxie and Prankster Whimsicott. Outside of sun, Swords Dance Shiftry plays a lot like Swords Dance Absol, but has a few perks over it that make it stand out. For one thing, in my experience its much easier to set up a Swords Dance with Shiftry than it is with Absol, as Shiftry has significantly more bulk than Absol along with several resistances/immunities to common attacking types such as Electric, Dark, Psychic, Water, and Grass. Shiftry's secondary Grass STAB also allows Shiftry to get past Quagsire and Poliwrath easily, both Pokemon Absol often struggles with. Also note that while 5 Speed may not seem like much, it actually allows Shiftry to outrun or at least Speed Tie with a ton of Pokemon Absol cant, most importantly Nidoqueen, who is easily OHKO'd by Shiftry's Life Orb Nature Power after Stealth Rock, while Absol's +0 Sucker Punch can never KO. Aside from Swords Dance, Nasty Plot, and Mixed Shiftry, its also interesting to note that Shiftry learns Explosion for some god-forsaken reason (seedot...), which could be useful on the mixed set i guess. Overall, Shiftry has performed well for me both in and outside of sun, and i think it deserves way more usage than it gets now, what do you think?

    EDIT: btw it makes double01 mad by setting up all over subCM uxie

    !
  8. Silvershadow234

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    [​IMG]
    Haunter @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Destiny Bond

    I've been using this set quite a bit recently, since I needed a solid check to sceptile and something that could counter hitmonlee(if played right), and haunter fit the bill perfectly. Although it seems to be outclassed a bit by scarf rotom, since it has no electric STAB or volt switch and is bulkier, haunter has much higher special attack, allowing it to 2HKO queen with shadow ball, as well have an above average chance of 2HKO'ing Druddigon after sr with sludge bomb(guaranteed with sr and a layer of spikes), which rotom can't do, and there are probably some other examples as well that I can't remember. Although it does lose out on electric stab and a scouting move in volt switch(which is pretty big), poison STAB is pretty useful in RU, due to the lack of steel types in the tier, and it hits sceptile, lilligant and rotom-c for huge damage, which other ghost types can't hope to achieve. Haunter also has access to destiny bond, which is a great fail-safe if something needs to be killed quickly, or a set-up sweeper needs to be stopped fast. HP Ground / Fire comes down to what you're team is weak to-if you have issues with durant(and most teams do), then HP fire makes haunter a great answer to it, especially since with proper prediction you can come in on either X-scissor or superpower due to haunter's typing. It also stops escavalier from straight up walling you, potentially even 1HKO'ing after rocks and a guaranteed 1HKO aftr sr and spikes. HP ground is more useful against aggron, but leaves you unable to do anything to durant and esca, the latter of which can also pursuit trap you.

    Overall, I've found haunter to be a pretty cool scarfer, but what do you guys think? Is poison STAB and the extra special attack worth it over rotom's extra bulk and volt switch or not?

    I've also been using Shiftry a little bit as well. It's been really useful on offensive teams, as it give you a solid water resist as well as priority and something that can reliably deal with ghost and psychic types. I run Naive on Shiftry, mainly to outspeed admant tops and reliably 1HKO with seed bomb instead of pray I win the speed tie. I also used HP fire over Swords Dance, as I didn't really find that many set-up opportunities, and the ability to 2HKO esca, ferroseed, sometimes steelix and tangrowth, which otherwise outright walled shiftry was very helpful. Although Naive loses a lot of power, adamant doesn't 100% of the time 1HKO queen after rocks, and as far as I can tell doesn't really make too much of a difference against much else that common in the metagame. Basically, shiftry is a strong mon and it should definitely be used more, thanks to its great typing, decent speed, powerful priority and great coverage.
  9. Silvershadow234

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    Bumping this because I can.

    [​IMG]
    Carracosta @ Splash Plate
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 252 Att / 248 Spd / 8 HP
    - Aqua Jet
    - Waterfall
    - Stone Edge
    - Shell Smash

    K so I've been trying out carracosta as a replacement for kabutops recently, as I really didn't need the spin, and costa has really impressed me. The extra bulk makes a huge difference, making carracosta a much better answer to swellow, braviary, glaceon and tauros among others. The extra bulk also makes it much easier to handle repeated flare blitzes from entei / emboar. Much like kabutops, costa has very few outright counters-poliwrath is the only one really that can counter every single set, as tangrowth loses to Ice Beam variants. There are some solid checks though to carracosta-sceptile and scarf rotom-c immediately come to mind, although only rotom-c can directly switch in and even then loses a huge chunk of its health and can't check costa again.

    The ev spread is p simple-252 Att and adamant nature because costa needs that extra power-for example, it gets a 1HKO on mane and cinccino at +2 with sr and spikes, which jolly sometimes fails to do. The much larger hit on rotom-c is also greatly appreciated. Although carracosta does have an abysmal 33 base speed, at +2 this set outspeeds drapion, uxie, sigilyph, moltres and lilligant which isn't half bad. P much anything faster, bar sceptile and tauros, dies to a +2 ajet after sr and spikes anyway.

    Overall, I've found carracosta's extra bulk and extra speed after a shell smash boost to be very useful in many situations, and although it faces a lot of competition with kabutops, which has rapid spin and hits harder off the bat and is also faster, I've found costa to be a pretty good poke in the current metagame, as costa can easily destroy many weakened offensive teams as well as deal huge damage to most defensive pokes as well, such as slowking.
  10. Mack the Knife

    Mack the Knife Goodbye Smogon! I may return, I may not!
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    I think Carracosta's biggest counter is Tangrowth who can both wall it and OHKO it.
  11. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    Just wanted to point out that while fully physical sets have absolutely no way to beat Tangrowth, Carracosta has the option to run Ice Beam as one of its coverage moves, OHKOing Tangrowth at +2 regardless of nature or item and making it a non issue for Carracosta.
  12. NfskMjmMal

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    I agree with Ice Beam on Carracosta. In fact, in NU, I run exactly enough Special Attack EVs for the sole reason that a minimum damage +2 Ice Beam does exactly 100.0% to Tangela, which otherwise is a very solid counter. If you choose to run Ice Beam, then you should consider changing your item because you'll no longer have two Water moves.

    I'm not sure if it qualifies as "Undiscovered" or not, but I'd like to suggest Alomomola.

    Alomomola @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252+ Def / 4 SDef
    - Wish
    - Waterfall
    - Protect
    - Toxic

    Alomomola really appreciates the banning of Nidoqueen, who destroys it with Thunderbolt. Alomomola walls (takes less than 62.5% per hit, which is the amount it restores with Wish and Protect) some of RU's most powerful physical attackers, such as Life Orb Gallade, Choice Band Absol, and Choice Band Druddigon. Alomomola's weaker Special Defense can be patched up by using it in conjunction with Clefable, which creates a nice Wish passing core. Although Alomomola is pretty one-dimensional, it's impressive how little damage it takes at times. Even though Tangrowth is solid, Alomomola is definitely one of the best Physical walls legal in the tier.
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