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Announcement SwagPlay, evaluating potential bans (basic definition of "uncompetitive" in OP)

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by haunter, Feb 22, 2014.

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  1. Kairyu_Gen1

    Kairyu_Gen1

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    Would this include banning Dynamic Punch, because that's Machamp's only claim to fame, and I'd be sad to steal it from him.
  2. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Chatter could be a bit different because it actually does damage... hmm. Might take some judgment calls. It does seem a bit silly to specifically make an exception for the move that has the same "broken" effect but also does damage.

    But yeah there's no sense in a complex ban when there's no reason not to simply ban Swagger (and Confuse Ray, and Flatter...) or when Prankster is just a way of using the same strategy more easily.
  3. Hidious

    Hidious

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    You can take my swag play when you pry it from my cold dead hands! Get-R-Done!
  4. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
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    Will there be any repercussions if we only ban Swagger or Prankster+Swagger for now and keep confusion "on watch"? I very much doubt people will successfully abuse Confuse Ray and the like, and outright banning Confusion could be "harmful" for any future suspect discussions.
  5. Ash Borer

    Ash Borer Throttle Chopper

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    yo can we ban retards for geuninely trying to make a "slippery slope" argument?
    SeTorsque likes this.
  6. PenguinKnight

    PenguinKnight

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    Fucking finally, this thread is here. The amount of happiness and poetic justice I am feeling cannot be described in words.

    Seriously, I'd much rather have MKang, MGar and MLuke and Genesect around than have Swagplay. Heck, I'd rather have Arceus. I'd rather need to predict when they switch in and KO them, rather than need to fight against the confusion hax while he hides behind a substitute, no doubt snickering like an asshole.

    I'm for banning Swagger, Confuse Ray and Flatter. Basically, BAN CONFUSION.
  7. unfixable

    unfixable [09:59:11] • #anto pets unfix furiously
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    Ok, I've been thinking a lot and this is what I thought:
    Ban Confusion + Prankster.
    Banning Confusion outright is not ok, due to Machamp and Chatot, but it is also not broken itself because not many things want to use a moveslot to use it, but with Prankster, it is very hard to stop.
  8. Balsty

    Balsty

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    Prevents Toxic, WoW on physical sweepers as well. It's worked pretty well for me.

    Still fail to see how SwagPlay is uncounterable. I've been doing it since the metagame started.


    Also, to the idiots(I don't even care anymore, these people are actual full retards) posting battle replays of swagplay beating UBERS teams.
    OF COURSE IT KILLS ALL THE UBERS. It's UBERS. Their attack stats are so bloody sky-high that Foul Play even without the boost is going to tear them apart. My god, I can't believe that's actually being used as evidence for why it should be banned.

    Subject 18, would you kindly give a valid reason for hiding my post other than foul language or telling people to get better at the game.
  9. doughboy

    doughboy backhand slap ready
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    Calm_Mind_Latias Chesnaught
    Prankster Swagger is the problem, the other modes of confusion are fine. The problem with Prankster Swagger is that it is transcending speed tiers in addition to boosting the damage output of the recoil it causes (as well as foul play). Combine that with the free turns it can generate by spamming priority substitutes and you have the problem we have now.

    And remember kiddos:

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
  10. Hidious

    Hidious

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    Yes, but that could lead to future bans of anyone who is an idiot. And eventually anyone who says something idiotic. Finally, anyone who is perceived to be idiotic but is just being sarcastic.
  11. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    This could be workable. Most importantly, I'm starting to feel like stuff like Chatter and Dynamic Punch lead to a weird situation of figuring out where to draw the line if we tried to throw in stuff like Confuse Ray and Supersonic.
  12. Balsty

    Balsty

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    You don't need luck to counter it. You need a viable counter.
  13. Kairyu_Gen1

    Kairyu_Gen1

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    But the troll looks hungry!

    Anyway, to all the people asking why we need confusion, I'll ask, why do we need to get rid of it?
    Slayer95 likes this.
  14. Stone_Cold

    Stone_Cold
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    LMAO, I'm a God. You're welcome Haunter.
  15. EverybodyHz

    EverybodyHz

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    Look, I dislike the Slippery Slope fallacy as well. But I'm not saying gay marriage leads to turtle marriage, I'm saying if enough people are making logic-based arguments around banning an ability or an entire game mechanic, they can make an equally logic-based argument against further mechanics. Courts use precedents for a reason.
    Slayer95 likes this.
  16. Salt

    Salt he waits in the dark below

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    Name one. Name something viable that beats SwagPlay 100% of the time and doesn't weigh your team down when you aren't facing it.
    JackieKT likes this.
  17. unfixable

    unfixable [09:59:11] • #anto pets unfix furiously
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    Thundurus-I.
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  18. Calm_Mind_Latias

    Calm_Mind_Latias

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    I like the idea of one Prankster + Swagger + Foul Play user per team.

    It is fairly easy to counter a given SwagPlay user such as Klefki or Liepard, but it is much harder to counter an entire team against them. I used a SwagPlay Klefki once, and it is not broken individually, and it can be played around as bulky Ground types really frustrate it.
    CL0V3R likes this.
  19. Caliber Champ

    Caliber Champ

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    Guys like these are just trolling. They just want to see the pokemon world burn with all these excessive bans and they get a kick out of it too knowing that they helped banned something makes them feel good. Its illogical judging. The TC should feel guilty for even thinking about creating this thread.
  20. Salt

    Salt he waits in the dark below

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    Got me there, I probably should have worded that differently. But not every team runs Thundurus-I, and that being one of the only viable counters doesn't really work in its favor.
  21. Hidious

    Hidious

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    That isn't going to happen. Its too complex of a ban and is probably difficult to implement anyway. Just banning prankster + swagger is the best option if there were to be a ban. It eliminates pretty much all of the problems with swag play but doesn't entirely take away the use of it, because you could still use it without prankster. The problem with swag play is prankster. Without priority, it is very easy to get around.
    Balsty likes this.
  22. D-Ssain

    D-Ssain

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    I vote NO BAN. Good players should always build teams that take into account the different strategies other players will use and will throw at them. This is one of them, similar to Volturn. Both are annoying strategies but can be dealt with. Having a cleric or a ground type is a very good counter to it. The SwagPlay teams are not threatening to a team, like a Mega Lucario who can set up and destroy teams. My point is that there are very strong PokeMon in OU, like a Mega Pinsir and just like you would plan to counter the Pokemon you should plan to counter the strategy. The problem with Mega Luc was that imo even if you planned for the Pokemon, it would still with a few setups destroy whatever counter you had for it. SwagPlay, however, is much easier to counter. I also think that things that are simply annoying should not be a criteria for banning a strategy. Stall is very annoying but we won't just go around banning recovery moves. Luck has also always been a part of the game, getting a burn from a FlameBody is luck just like SwagPlay is.
  23. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    Hi. I assure you, I hate seeing any bans for anything that actually adds to the metagame unless 100% necessary. Confusion does not add jack shit to the metagame.
  24. mlaw3k

    mlaw3k

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    Why are people still listing all these random 'counters' lol. Again, it's not about whether it's beatable or counterable.

    Does swagplay reduce the game to a dice roll each turn? Yes or No?
    Is a dice roll desirable for a competitive rule set? Yes or No?

    The answer the to first question is yes. What has to be determined is whether as a collective people have a problem or not with the second one. Do you wanna play random.org/dice or not?

    Yes = No ban.
    No = Ban.

    Simple.
    Karxrida likes this.
  25. Balsty

    Balsty

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    This. If you absolutely HAVE to ban something, ban Swagger+Prankster
  26. pharaohcalvin

    pharaohcalvin

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    All but one way of dealing with it requires you to have the proper conditions up ahead of time, or be in at the same time. That is not a counter. The only one you have mentioned that is a counter is Safeguard. You can't swap whism into a swagplay mon without risking confusion and to which the game becomes a 50-50. I am sorry, but I will not respond to you again unless you actually bring something logic to the table. If not, I wish you a good day sir.
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