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Swamp-Rocket's RU Revamps

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Worldtour, Sep 2, 2013.

  1. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    this is a WIP, but I might as well get my list up on the forums

    (# left: 3)

    Aerodactyl - Fine
    • It was uploaded very recently and looks fine
    Bouffalant - No Revamp, Discussion Needed
    • What I'm going to do myself is remove Poison Jab from OO (does more against nothing), and change/remove the mentions of Drapion (and change to Tomb) and Quagsire. I'm also going to elaborate a bit on Haunter - SubDisable will completely wall it because Stone Edge is the only way to hit it - it won't Will-o-Wisp
    • I'm beginning to leaning toward Return > Head Charge on the Substitute set. No recoil damage is a huge advantage because it conserves Bouff's great bulk and makes it more annoying to kill, and Bouffalant is already pretty strong if it gets the Sap Sipper boost anyway. However, I'm not really sure, so what do you guys think?
    • Swords Dance + 3 Attacks may need to be added, but that can be done in a separate thread.
    Cinccino - Revamp or major SCMS
    • Random mentions of hazard support without any specific KOs.
    • Some of the sets look pretty short in description, with some being under 300 words (if you delete bits about hazard support, both Scarf and Life Orb fall under 300 words)
    • The fact that it can't deal with Steel or Ghost types at all is actually a huge problem and its pretty much the reason why it not a huge threat anymore.
    • The analysis isn't outdated, but I think it at least needs a bit more in teammates to add more and delete the hazard support tidbits, more general descriptions in the sets to make it a bit more detailed, and more of an emphasis, especially in the overview, as to its 2 flaws which are really big (being frail and getting completely walled by something is bad in this metagame). Checks and counters is also a little short when it gets revenge killed by literally everything.
    Crawdaunt - Fine
    • Tone down that overview. Otherwise this is fine
    Crustle - SCMS
    • Leafeon will be replaced with Alomomola for Wish support and Sandslash will be removed, but other than that it looks fine. (Quaggy is there but it destroys the Smash set)
    • Set order needs to change: Cutsap) > Smash > that set Nails posted > Defensive.
    • Maybe a small expansion of Checks and Counters
    Ditto - Fine
    • I plan on toning down the overview (and maybe a little bit of the set comments) but that's honestly it. Ditto is not really very good but some that's nothing some quick edits can't fix.
    Durant - Revamp
    • I'm pretty sure most people agree that CB is Durant's best set in the current metagame. It threatens everything in the tier, requires no set up, and is in general a strong and fast Pokemon.
    • Thunder Fang should have the first slash over Rock Slide on CB and in the AC of Hone Claws. Something that can hurt Qwilfish and Poliwrath while still giving the pain against Flying-types is pretty good, possibly better than Rock Slide due to the fact that Stealth Rock is everywhere and is letting Thunder Fang kill stuff like Moltres. I'd rather hit Qwilfish and Poliwrath than Rotom and Entei especially when Rotom is frail and slower, and Entei doesn't like taking a Superpower and is also slower (both are usually offensive)
    • Superpower is too essential to pass up on for HC, should probably be alone with Rock Slide in AC or seomthing.
    • Slash Lum Berry after Life Orb on HC
    • More teammates would be very nice, especially on CB (aka something other than Pokemon that can take Fire moves)
    • Scarf?
    Feraligatr - Fine
    • Maybe a bit more of a mention of competition
    Galvantula - No Revamp, Discussion Needed
    • Deslash Specs (put in AC) and put Expert Belt instead. Specs is kinda bad on Galv and if you don't like the recoil then you should probably go with E-Belt because Galv gets nice coverage.
    • I honestly don't really like HP Ground because its way less useful thanks to Nido's leave. Literally all you get is Steelix and I'm pretty sure you still might lose, and Electrics take almost as much from Bug Buzz. Giga Drain and Volt Switch are generally more useful as a result of this.
    • Do you agree with the above two things?
    Jynx - Fine
    • Random hazard mentions
    • Possibly more teammates
    Metang - Fine
    • lol
    Natu - Fine
    • It should be emphasized Natu only really works on Voltturn teams that don't have time for Rapid Spin but otherwise it looks fine.
    Scolipede - Fine
    • Useless Stealth Rock info in the Swords Dance set (and bad setters, to boot)
    • Mentions of Whimsicott, Scyther, etc.
    • Life Orb > Focus Sash on the first set. Scolipede is much better as an offensive spiker than a suicide lead, and although Sash still deserves a slash, Life Orb is better to make its Megahorn scarier. Maybe slash Aqua Tail somewhere on that set too but I don't know where.

    Swellow - Revamp
    • Some of the Pokemon mentioned include: Dusknoir, Wynaut, Sawk, offensive Carracosta, and Rapid Spin Hitmonchan. While I replaced most of these with better alternatives or removed them via SCMS as of posting this, I think that gives you an idea of how outdated it is.
    • The main set has Pursuit and a Flame Orb both of which are bad. AC has Work Up which is also bad. (Pursuit was so strange that I just removed it)
    • The structure is a bit strange as it mentions teammates before alternative moves and such, and it seems to be missing stuff throughout.
    • OO and Checks and Counters are very shallow (for instance, it mentions "Choice Scarf Pokemon" in C&C but none in particular)
    • Needs more of an emphasis about its speed stat in general. Outspeeding Sceptile and Scarf Emboar is an incredible feat - its more than just "one of the fastest Pokemon in the tier" as a result.
    Volbeat - Revamp
    • The first bit is completely false, Volbeat doesn't impact the tier much. There is also no mention of it being a weather supporter.
    • Weather Support > Baton Pass? Volbeat is quite possibly the best option ever to set up Rain in the tier. Also, I think Sunny Day sould be removed, as I think Whimsicott is the superior option at setting up sun.
    • The fact that Weather Supporter has Baton Pass + Tail Glow really bothers me.
    • 73 base attack with a STAB U-turn isn't half bad, and prevents it from being Taunt bait. Also, using Baton Pass on a Pokemon with Prankster means you switch in first which means you aren't safe which is bad on a weather supporter! Also Thunder Wave is worth considering on the weather supporter.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  2. EonX

    EonX Justified RUse
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    I know this is still getting work, but there's one thing in particular I wanted to talk about and that's Bouffalant's Sub set.

    Imo, Return should absolutely be the primary slash for Bouffalant's STAB move on that set. It has p. solid bulk and Sub plays to this, but Head Charge just kills the bulk Bouffalant has over other Normal-types (think Tauros, Cinccino, and Zangoose) Personally, I've always used Return on the Sub set as preserving that bulk to switch into Grass-types multiple times over the course of the match is really useful imo as most other Sap Sipper Pokemon can't do this while maintaining offensive presence.

    I also think Choice Scarf at least deserves a look on Durant. (with Swarm as the ability for obvious reliability reasons)
  3. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    I need to do some testing with Scarf Durant, but here is the thing - without Hustle, its noticeably weaker than even Manectric who isn't exactly powerful. A 1.5x boost is probably worth the miss, because otherwise, Durant is lacking in power (like, it barely OHKOs Lilligant 100% of the time without Hustle).
  4. EonX

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    @Swamp-Rocket I actually run an Adamant nature with Swarm as Durant has a high enough Speed tier that it can afford to run Adamant. The only thing it really misses out on with Adamant is Timid Scarf Manectric. It still beats out +2 Omastar (and has Superpower to KO) and every other common Scarfer bar Typhlosion (which it shouldn't stay in on anyway)
  5. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    I'll handle Cinccino via SCMS; I also implemented all of your suggestions on Scolipede. (I will admit I wrote Cincy and that was when I wasn't that great at analysis writing and I wasn't all that competent at RU). I think a major SCMS is all Cinccino needs because none of the sets have changed and all three of the sets on site are still perfectly viable.

    That said, I think Dual Spikes Scolipede should get a stronger mention, and I might even argue it's deserving of a set, since Toxic Spikes are a hell of a lot better in this metagame, really the only reason Toxic Spikes were meh was that Nidoqueen was RU when the revamp was written. That may be just me.

    I think Weather Support Volbeat's set should be Rain Dance/Substitute/Encore/Baton Pass; these are the most important moves Volbeat has, Tail Glow is hardly necessary because most rain abusers are powerful enough as is; also Baton Pass is still good on Weather Volbeat because you can pass a Sub if you manage to get one up, which can be done if you switch in on something that attempts to set up; and they'll probably switch in fear of Encore (aka SubPass). Of course, this is assuming the opponent is competent.

    Thunder Fang is definitely better than Rock Slide, it hits bulky Waters for meaty damage, also everything you said is fine.

    gdi I forgot a Sandslash mention, non viable Pokemon should not be on an analysis so I'll remove that.
  6. Oglemi

    Oglemi <&Oglemi> i am a gay badger buddy :3
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    I think Volbeat's BP set needs to be looked at a bit more closely, I think it's almost entirely outclassed by Mr. Mime to be completely honest. While Mr. Mime doesn't get priority or a +3 boost (only +2), it has a way more advantages over Volbeat including: a way better typing, awesome Speed, a great ability aside from Prankster, and the ability to actually use its NP boost. The last bit I think is what pushes Mr. Mime so much above Volbeat. What do you guys think?
  7. EonX

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    Tending to agree with Oglemi on the BP point for the reasons he stated (the last one primarily)

    As for Galvantula, I totally agree with the removal of HP Ground. Considering the primary EV spread on Steelix should be the current AC spread anyway, Galvy would have to predict Steelix's switch-in to even have a chance. Otherwise, you can just continually use Giga Drain to weaken Steelix over time on predicted switch-ins. Not so sure on Expert Belt as that starts to encroach on Manectric's territory. Galvy doesn't have the raw Special Attack stat to use EBelt well enough imo. Thunder helps to an extent, but otherwise, Manectric has the better super effective coverage and a high special attack stat to afford the use of EBelt imo.
  8. col49

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    Oh yeah, if I can chime in (being the person that revamped Galvy last), I'd agree with the removal of HP Ground. Keep in mind that this revamp had occurred during a Nidoqueen meta, when the ability to hit it+Electric-types was actually pertinent (Magneton was / is also a thing). Nowadays, it'd be best to simply relegate it to AC imo, since the only targets are Magneton and Steelix (both of which are better off simply being worn down unless you specifically need Galvy to bait either). I made the effort to stress that Specs' use was fairly specific (getting specific KO's on SpDef 'mons and minimizing the chip damage accumulated through early-game Volt Switching), but considering how infrequently these points are wholly useful I wouldn't disagree with it being moved to AC as well (as long as the point I mentioned are stated clearly :< ). That being said, I would strongly suggest that Substitute is re-considered for stronger AC mention, or even a slash (making the main set Thunder / Bug Buzz / Giga Drain / [Volt Switch / Substitute]). Even when it couldn't always afford the recovery option of Giga Drain, Sub+3 Attacks Galvy was a really dangerous 'mon, and now that it has the leniency to do so it has become even more threatening imo, and with the spikes in usage of stuff like ScarfBoar and Druddigon since its revamp it has become a very cool tool in dispatching common gluemons and utility checks.

    Also, quick point on Durant, but I really feel Thunder Fang should be a standard on HC Durant, getting the slash alongside Iron Head (HC / X-Scissor / Superpower / [Iron Head / TFang], Superpower being invaluable to the point where it out-prioritizes even secondary STAB imo). Rock Slide is kinda meh on Durant when you consider most Fire-types are KOed at +1 after SR damage with LO (some can avoid this when using Lum Berry, wherein Rock Slide becomes marginally useful), and finding the moveslot for it makes Durant susceptible to a ton of things it otherwise would be able to plow through fine. Hitting Qwilfish while maintaining coverage on Moltres is golden, and hitting bulky Waters like 'Wrath and Momo without having to compromise Durant to stat drops is excellent as well.

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