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Swampert

Discussion in 'Dream World Analyses' started by dragonuser, May 21, 2012.

  1. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Pyramid Kingis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p></p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Stealth Rock
    move 4: Scald / Roar
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Relaxed
    evs: 240 HP / 216 Def / 52 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p></p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p></p>

    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Ice Punch
    move 3: Stealth Rock
    move 4: Waterfall
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p></p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p></p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Waterfall / Aqua Tail
    move 3: Ice Punch
    move 4: Superpower
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Torrent
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p></p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p></p>

    [Other Options]

    <p></p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p></p>
  2. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
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    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,381
    SpD>SDef and Spe>Spd iirc.
    Oh and even though Superpower can beat Ferrothorn sometimes, I wouldn't suggest it for the defensive set because:

    a) it won't kill, and Ferrothorn can retaliate with Power Whip, easily OHKOing Swampert. Also, Ferrothorn can just use Leech Seed + Protect to gain health back, and then switch to anything else

    b) it's inferior to Scald by a large amount

    I'd also like to address Roar.

    What can Swampert actually phaze out in the current metagame?
    The top set-up sweepers are:

    SD Breloom
    SubSD Chomp
    SD Excadrill
    SD Gliscor
    CM Keldeo
    CM Chandelure (although only 20% of Chandelure)
    DD Nite

    Out of all these, Roar is basically useless against all. DD Nite can be hurt with Ice Beam, Chandelure with EQ/Scald, Keldeo is going to OHKO in the rain at +1 anyway, Gliscor dies to Ice Beam, Excadrill dies to Scald/EQ, Chomp dies to Ice Beam, and Breloom wins anyway.
    Of all those Pokemon, Roar is only useful against Keldeo outside of rain, and SubSD Chomp sometimes (but it still has the same miss chance as Ice Beam).

    Also, I've got some qualms with the EV spreads.
    First thing I noticed is that they are the exact same as the OU ones. They can possibly be made better. (runs some calcs)
    First, the big question, what are we aiming to wall? Obviously not special threats, so let's look at the main physical attackers in the tier:
    1. Tyranitar 2. Excadrill 3. Garchomp 4. Breloom 5. Landorus 6. Scizor 7. Salamence 8. Dragonite 9. Cloyster 10. Heracross 11. Terrakion 12. Gyarados

    In-Depth (open)

    Tyranitar: All right, Swampert can easily beat it.

    Excadrill: If Swampert switches in on the SD, and SR is up, Swampert is OHKO'd. If SR is up, it is likely to get 2HKO'd by an incoming EQ, and SR + 1 layer of Spikes guarantees the 2HKO.

    Garchomp: #1: If Garchomp gets up an SD, Swampert is 2HKO'd, and Ice Beam has the potential to miss, and doesn't OHKO anyways. This is the one situation in which Roar is good for, as Swampert would be able to phaze Garchomp out, but not without losing over half of its health.
    #2: With SR + 1 layer of Spikes, Swampert is 3HKO'd by Earthquake, so it still loses a majority of its health, and cannot OHKO Garchomp with Ice Beam.

    Breloom: Wins 100% of the time, self-explanatory.

    Landorus: Swampert can OHKO with Ice Beam, while Landorus doesn't do an overly large amount back, so good here.

    Scizor: Scizor can just U-turn away from Swampert, dealing around 40% health damage in exchange.

    Salamence: Loses to Ice Beam, but Swampert takes heavy damage.

    Dragonite: Does not die to Ice Beam, and can 2HKO with CB/+1 Outrage.

    Cloyster: +2 Hydro Pump OHKO's after SR + 2 layers of Spikes, ~80% with 1 layer.

    Heracross: 2HKO after SR with CC.

    Terrakion: CB CC 2HKO's.

    Gyarados: Swampert loses without Roar.

    Swampert is beating 2/12 if it has to switch-in, which is what it is doing if it is meant to take attacks from these Pokemon. My suggestion? Make a Tank set and put Defensive>Tank>CB. This way, Swampert can actually retaliate hard, and isn't taking on many of these physical attackers anyway. Make the EVs 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def (I know they are the same as the UU spread, but they work here). Make the attacks fully physical, Waterfall/Ice Punch/SR/EQ. (seriously, the same set too?) Keep the defensive set as is, and make it the first option, as a lot of instances I mentioned are somewhat situational.

    tl;dr
    - SpD>SDef and Spe>Spd
    - Deslash Roar and Superpower from the defensive set
    - Keep Roar in AC for Offensive DD Nite, SubSD Chomp, and Gyarados.
    - add a Tank set with 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def | Adamant | Waterfall/Ice Punch/SR/EQ

    That's all I got. Cheers!

    EDIT: I reread my post, and realized I was kind of blunt. Sorry about that.
  3. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Pyramid Kingis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    thanks alot! I always enjoy feedback and that was really helpful. I do agree with you in most cases, but I do see some merit in keeping Roar slashed on because of its utility. That tank set you included seems really interesting and I did include it, as it seems like a middle ground between the two other sets, offering a more offensive (but not restricted) Swampert.

    Also sorry for taking so long to get to writing this n_n, studying for exams is rough but I will try to write this up in the next few days

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