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Pokémon Swampert
- Thread starter bb skarm
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I'm not familiar with Scarf Lando's EV spread, but I ran a quick calc, and assuming the Swampert set above
-1 252+ Atk Swampert Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T in Rain: 350-414 (109.3 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Swampert Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 292-348 (91.2 - 108.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Swampert: 180-213 (49 - 58%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Landorus-T U-turn vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Swampert: 85-100 (23.1 - 27.2%) -- 64.3% chance to 4HKO
Landorus-T cannot check Swampert in the Rain, and if it has Ice Punch, he can't do anything regardless, especially with Rocks, so outspeeding him isn't too crucial, especially since Landorus-T's only decent choice if he had to stay in for whatever reason is EQ. Even if Swampert is weakened to the point that it would KO, knowing he has to click that makes it very easy to pick a switch-in.
Swampert is an interesting Pokemon to me. He was pretty much tailor made for his weather, yet has just enough to not be neutered outside of it like, say, Kabutops, Kingdra or (though to a significantly lesser degree) Sand Rush Excadrill. That natural bulk and typing coupled near perfect Dual STAB + 1-move coverage leaves him a free moveslot to muscle past certain checks, whether it's wearing them out with Toxic, boosting with PuP, another coverage move to further narrow the list of answers, or even Rain Dance to provide his own weather as a pseudo Shift Gears (+2 Speed and +1 for Waterfall)
-1 252+ Atk Swampert Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T in Rain: 350-414 (109.3 - 129.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Swampert Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 292-348 (91.2 - 108.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Swampert: 180-213 (49 - 58%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Landorus-T U-turn vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Swampert: 85-100 (23.1 - 27.2%) -- 64.3% chance to 4HKO
Landorus-T cannot check Swampert in the Rain, and if it has Ice Punch, he can't do anything regardless, especially with Rocks, so outspeeding him isn't too crucial, especially since Landorus-T's only decent choice if he had to stay in for whatever reason is EQ. Even if Swampert is weakened to the point that it would KO, knowing he has to click that makes it very easy to pick a switch-in.
Swampert is an interesting Pokemon to me. He was pretty much tailor made for his weather, yet has just enough to not be neutered outside of it like, say, Kabutops, Kingdra or (though to a significantly lesser degree) Sand Rush Excadrill. That natural bulk and typing coupled near perfect Dual STAB + 1-move coverage leaves him a free moveslot to muscle past certain checks, whether it's wearing them out with Toxic, boosting with PuP, another coverage move to further narrow the list of answers, or even Rain Dance to provide his own weather as a pseudo Shift Gears (+2 Speed and +1 for Waterfall)
Any thoughts on making Stealth Rock it's 4th move?
SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
It doesn't seem like a good idea in my opinion. You either miss out on coverage (when you drop Superpower/Low Kick/PuP) or Rain Dance, which pretty much works like Agility / DD (2x Spe and 1.5x Atk with Waterfall) and helps teammates like Ferrothorn too, when you need to switch out and both are not worth the rocks imo, which other members in your team can use as well
Mega Swampert could run stealth rocks because it has good bulk and forces lots of switches, but then you lose out on coverage as SketchUp mentioned, or you lose out on rain dance which works as a 5 turn agility boost. But then swampert can't take advantage of it's great ability and good offensive stats, but you could try running a stall set like toxic, waterfall, earthquake and stealth rocks, but it doesn't have reliable recovery because it misses out on leftovers and it can't take advantage of swift swim, so personally I think stealth rocks is a waste on an offensive mon like swampert.
After some further testing, I'm starting to believe that Toxic might be the best move in the last slot assuming you are using Swampert with a Politoed. Superpower and Low Kick might seem useful for Ferrothorn, however they arent always guaranteed 2hkos on it when you account for leftovers and protect, superpowers drops in power, and the iron barbs recoil is really annoying too. Honestly, if i wanted to beat ferrothorn i would just use substitute since most run a setof stealth rock, leech seed, gyro ball, and protect. I feel like Power-Up-Punch doesnt work too often and most teams i sweep wih it are swampert weak anyways, meaning it rarely makes a difference. Hydro Pump is good for Skarmory, however, i usually take care of skarmory with magnezone which also takes care of Ferrothorn. Toxic takes care of the most common answers to Swampert outside of those Magnezone beats, namely Rotom-W, Slowbro, Mega Slowbro, Celebi, Gastrodon, Tangrowth, and really any annoying bulky pokemon.
Edit: forget celebi i forgot about natural cure
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-182598997
Here is a replay of Toxic working successfully. This replay is kinda undermined by my opponent choking at the end, but at the time I toxiced him he was playing well.
Edit: forget celebi i forgot about natural cure
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-182598997
Here is a replay of Toxic working successfully. This replay is kinda undermined by my opponent choking at the end, but at the time I toxiced him he was playing well.
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Celebi has Natural Cure and heals itself of status when it switches out. The rest of the Pokemon are crippled by Toxic, but not Celebi.
Out of curiosity, has anyone ran any calculations on whether or not M-Swampert with the EV spread mentioned above can take a +1 aerilate return from M-Salamence? And if so, cn he respond with a OHKO with ice punch? With all the havoc going on with M-Salamence, this could be a fun option to counter Salamence.
The damage calc is down right now, but I believe it is bulky enough to tank a +1 Return while failing to OHKO back due to not having STAB on Ice Punch.
Yeah Stealth Rock is oook on M-Swampert. When I did use it I kind of just hated the fact that unlike regular Swampert it couldn't hold leftovers so all in all it's kind of a bad SR user that needs support to function. Rather just use Waterfall/Scald, Earthquake, LowKick/Superpower, Toxic in non rain sets considering that's where one would even consider using SR on it.
How about Avalanche, then? Assuming of course that rain is not in play.
What does rain have to do with it? You do know Avalanche has negative priority, right?
I actually completely forgot. I thought it was like Payback where it just did more damage if you take a hit before it comes out.
then again if you have rain you're probably faster than M.Salamence anyway and should be able to two-shot it. I guess it doesn't make a whole lot of difference since on the switch you're going to have to endure two turns of assault regardless before that thing gets KOed.
then again if you have rain you're probably faster than M.Salamence anyway and should be able to two-shot it. I guess it doesn't make a whole lot of difference since on the switch you're going to have to endure two turns of assault regardless before that thing gets KOed.
I don't know what spread MMence usually runs, so I just went with 248 HP and 252 Atk, although I'm sure MMence runs less Attack EVs than this. Someone correct me here
Stats adjusted for MMence and MSwamp
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Swampert: 357-421 (97.2 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Swampert Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 320-380 (81.4 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Not an OHKO for Swampert unless there's rocks on the other side of the field, and Ice Punch would deal even less if it were affected by Intimidate.
Yes, rain teams aren't too shabby this gen because of mega swampert, and sun isn't too common now that zard y is dropping in usage. Good partners would be mons like keldeo, who can wallbreak alongside it, ferrothorn, who can set up hazards for it, and has decent synergy, and kingdra is also great on rain teams to abuse swift swim. Also welcome to smogon 
Rain was already good in XY, just uncommon, while dedicated Sun teams don't really exist in OU.Yes, rain teams aren't too shabby this gen because of mega swampert, and sun isn't too common now that zard y is dropping in usage. Good partners would be mons like keldeo, who can wallbreak alongside it, ferrothorn, who can set up hazards for it, and has decent synergy, and kingdra is also great on rain teams to abuse swift swim. Also welcome to smogon
Rain was good in XY, but this gen it's a lot better. Yeah I agree dedicated sun teams aren't that common anymore, but last gen a common problem was zard-y who could just come in predicted switches and mess up your weather. This gen zard y is in the decline because of mega altaria, so rain teams won't have such a big problem with zard y anymore.
A set I've been using on this thing is an offensive SR set that works as a semi-anti-lead:
Offensive Stealth Rock
Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 224 Atk / 104 SpA / 180 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Ice Beam
The EVs allow me to OHKO max HP Landorus-T 100% of the time after Stealth Rock with Ice Beam - something which is not possible with Ice Punch. They also outpace 8 speed Landorus-T before and on the turn Swampert mega evolves. The rest is pretty self-explanitory.
What do you guys think of the set?
Offensive Stealth Rock
Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 224 Atk / 104 SpA / 180 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Ice Beam
The EVs allow me to OHKO max HP Landorus-T 100% of the time after Stealth Rock with Ice Beam - something which is not possible with Ice Punch. They also outpace 8 speed Landorus-T before and on the turn Swampert mega evolves. The rest is pretty self-explanitory.
What do you guys think of the set?
Not the best imo. Simply because it is too reliant on rain to make this work reliably. Also, why would you need a +Spe nature when rain doubles your speed? You also get Ice Punch so there's no need to invest in SpAtk just so you can run Ice Beam. Even if you can't OHKO defensive LandT, you can still 2hko while they do nothing major in return.A set I've been using on this thing is an offensive SR set that works as a semi-anti-lead:
Offensive Stealth Rock
Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 224 Atk / 104 SpA / 180 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Ice Beam
The EVs allow me to OHKO max HP Landorus-T 100% of the time after Stealth Rock with Ice Beam - something which is not possible with Ice Punch. They also outpace 8 speed Landorus-T before and on the turn Swampert mega evolves. The rest is pretty self-explanitory.
What do you guys think of the set?
-1 252+ Atk Swampert Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 208-248 (54.4 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Overall, this is a pretty suboptimal option to run simply because Mega Pert was designed with two roles in mind. To break or to clean. This set takes away both of it's roles by introducing a +Spe nature and less than max Atk as well as making it extremely vulnerable to Ferrothorn, which is public enemy number 1 when it comes to rain teams.
108 SpA Swampert Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 53-63 (15 - 17.8%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
224 Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 120-142 (34 - 40.3%) -- 41.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Also, why would you need a +Spe nature when rain doubles your speed?[/quote]
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the idea is that it is sopposed to KO landorus without taking a hit. That is why Ice Beam is ran.
Once again, this is to play a different role to normal, as IT ISN'T DESIGNED TO SWEEP OR WALLBREAK. Also, GF didn't design it with sweeper or wallbreaker in mind as they generally focus on the roles that they play in the other metagames (i.e. doubles) when they do their concepts as of XY, as it is the format that nintendo and gf officially support.
Lol? this is not what it is designed to hit XD
Your point? This isn't sopposed to wallbreak, and at what point did I say this was a wallbreaker? If I wanted a wallbreaker Swampert I'd run the 4 attacks set. This is sopposed to be a team-specific mon that needs the ability to set up rocks and KO Landorus-T, which is something that most other rockers can't do reliably.
Any reason for MSwampert over Mamoswine then?
It checks different things to Mamoswine. Also, Mamoswine can't afford to use special moves outside of Freeze Dry, which still hits for less damage than Icicle Crash vs. Landorus-T, and that makes it highly suceptible to Intimidate - especially seeing how if it is being used as a lead it will be running Focus Sash, and therefore won't get the KO after SR 87.5% of the time. Swampert is more of a semi-anti-lead. Mamoswine is a lead, but not in any way an anti-lead. Also, Swampert can afford to run less attack due to its much higher attack stat making it more flexible with how much it can take out to put into SpA.
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