Swellow (QC Approved 0/2)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Erebyssial, Dec 1, 2010.

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  1. Erebyssial

    Erebyssial

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    [​IMG]
    Swellow

    Did this pretty quickly so there might be few things I forgot to mention.

    Status: skeleton up, ready for comments/critiques

    ----------------------------

    [Overview]

    • No significant changes from the generation transition
    • Fantastic Speed and Guts seperate it from other Flying-types and sweepers
    • Easily walled by Steel and Rock-types, frail, and there are usually much better alternatives in OU
    [SET]
    name: Guts
    move 1: Facade
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Quick Attack / Protect
    item: Toxic Orb / Flame Orb
    ability: Guts
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Standard Guts Swellow returns untouched from DPP
    • Facade and Brave Bird main attacking options, hit very hard with the Guts boost
    • U-turn is used to scout for counters and gain momentum
    • Quick Attack lets Swellow finish off faster, weakened foes; Protect allows free status orb activation
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Toxic Orb preferred since it does less damage than Flame Orb in two turns and tie at three
    • Pursuit an option to trap Ghost-types
    • Rapid Spin and Wish support helps as SR + status damage makes Swellow faint fast
    • (General counters and teammates in below sections)

    [SET]
    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Return / Double-edge / Facade
    move 2: Brave Bird
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Quick Attack / Roost
    item: Life Orb / Choice Band
    ability: Guts / Scrappy
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Takes a different approach than the previous set; instant power and more survivability
    • With LO/CB instead of a status orb, Swellow can get both a Guts boost and an item boost
    • Facade can be used over Return hoping for a Guts boost, but Return is a more consistent option
    • Scrappy can be used instead of Guts to remove the fear of Ghost-types switching in; especially useful for CB
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Double-edge for more power, but is illegal with Scrappy
    • Cheer Up and Pursuit options for final slot
    • If using Guts, it's best to try and switch Swellow into a status move
    • (general counters and teammates in below sections again)

    [Team Options]

    • Magnezone to trap and remove the Steel-types that wall Swellow
    • Other means of removing Steel-types like luring them with strong Dragon-types (also works vice versa)
    • Spikes support to wear down its counters, most of which are grounded
    • Rapid Spin support is useful since Swellow is weak to SR and is setup fodder for many spikers (Skarm, Forry, etc)
    • Wish support can increase survivability
    • Pokemon that can sponge priority attacks (Scizor, Roobushin) and Scarfers that can revenge kill Swellow
    [Optional Changes]

    • Cheer Up, but rarely finds time to use it to due its frailty
    • Baton Pass set (Agility, Cheer Up)
    • Substitute + Endeavor
    • Roost
    [Counters]

    • Most Steel and Rock-types
    • Desukaan and Dusclops do a fair job with immunity to Facade and massive Defense
    • Easy to revenge kill with priority and Scarfers
    • Stalling it out of residual damage is often the best way to defeat it
    [Dream World]

    • Swellow's Dream World ability, Scrappy, has been released.
  2. DrillingGround

    DrillingGround

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    uhh where's dream world?

    i think you can add double edge on the physical attacker set for the power it provides
  3. Erebyssial

    Erebyssial

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    Double-edge and DW section added. I dunno if it's necessary to go into detail about its DW ability in that section though, since it's already released and will be talked about elsewhere.
  4. am zane ok.

    am zane ok.

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    I don't understand how Scrappy is effective, honestly. Brave Bird hits his Ghost type enemies pretty hard with a Guts boost. I've never had a huge problem with Ghost types; my main issue was with Steels and Rocks, who will only wall Swellow MORE without a Guts boost. And I feel that the whole reason to use Swellow is for a Guts-boosted STAB Facade. That's what sets Swellow apart from other Normal/Flying types, in my opinion.

    -Zane
  5. Venser

    Venser

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    Could a set like this see use? I just came up with the idea while thinking about Heracross.


    [​IMG]
    [SET]
    Name: Rest-Talk
    Move 1: Facade
    Move 2: Brave Bird
    Move 3: Rest
    Move 4: Sleep Talk
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Guts
    Nature: Jolly/Adamant
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    High speed lets you Rest quickly, and then Facade has a LO, Guts, and STAB boost if chosen by Sleep Talk. Brave Bird and Rest synergistic nicely as well. This set is actually bettered by the sleep change, as it now gives you more chances for a powerful Facade with more turns asleep. You don't really lose coverage, considering Swellow's poor movepool. Plus, it can still do quite a bit of damage when awake.
  6. Paradox

    Paradox

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    Yeah you definitely don't want to ever use Scrappy, pretty much the only good thing about Swellow is STAB Guts Facade, and you're hitting every Ghost other than Rotom harder with Brave Bird anyways.
  7. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    This point is moot. Brave Bird hits thim hard enough anyways. Guts Swellow doesn't fear Will-O-Wisp from either, and Scrappy Swellow ignores their Normal-type immunity.

    And I agree that Scrappy Swellow is pretty pointless, since Guts gives him a niche. Staraptor is more powerful and has a better movepool, Wargle is more powerful and less frail, and Dodrio is more powerful and almost as fast. The only thing Swellow has on these three is Speed, but doesn't really have anything to abuse that with besides U-Turn. Without Guts, Swellow simply doesn't cut it.
  8. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    Return would make more sense on this set. Facade doesn't get any kind of boost from sleep, only paralyze, burn, and poison. Since Return has a higher power, and you'll be sleeping off status anyways, Facade wouldn't make sense on this set.

    Also, this set would face really stiff competition with other flying types, like Skarmory, Togekiss, and Wargle, since they aren't as frail as Swellow.
  9. Agonist

    Agonist He had seen it, felt its might, bent under
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    the main problem is that swellow doesn't really have the defenses to be taking hits, especially if it doesn't get a attack with sleep talk. It might be decent as a gimmick, but other than that, it's easier to just give it the flame orb or toxic orb, and spam brave bird/facade, and kill as much as you can
  10. lmitchell0012

    lmitchell0012

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    I think it should also be noted that this is one of the fastest pokemon who gets both Sunny day and Rain dance. I think that it could easily find a spot on a rain or sun team.

    A set like this may be useful

    name: Weather support
    move 1: Rain Dance/Sunny day
    move 2: U-Turn
    move 3: Brave bird/Endeavor
    move 4: Quick attack/protect
    item: Damp Rock / Heat Rock (or whatever the items are called)
    ability: Guts


    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    The main purpose of this set is to take advantage of swellow's great speed, and possibly get a KO in the process. I would recommend using this set in a match where team preview isn't allowed, so your strategy isn't completely ruined. The strategy behind this set is fairly straightforward. Play swellow as a lead, and while your opponent sets up stealth rock/spikes/screens etc. you set up your weather. Brave bird is there as your primary stab option, but endeavor may also be an option if swellow has taken a lot of prior damage. Ghosts types won't be able to stall you to death since swellow won't be taking from toxic/burn damage, but he can do little damage to them in return. For this reason, u-turn was also included on this set. If you suspect your opponent will send something in to try to wall you, simply u-turn away.
  11. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

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    Isn't this set outclassed by Politoed and Ninetales since they can set up the weather the moment they enter on the field?
  12. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    I agree. You also have to take Mischievous Heart Taunt-users into consideration with this, who ruin your fun completely and make this Swellow dead weight. Politoed and Ninetales don't share that fear.
  13. lmitchell0012

    lmitchell0012

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    I understand that ninetales and politoed outclass him, but these are some of the only other options swellow has. You have to work with what you got.
  14. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    Just because a Pokemon can learn the moves, doesn't automatically make them an option. Last generation this would have been a decent set for Swellow, but with Ninetales and Politoed having been given Drought and Drizzle (respectively) this generation, Swellow should really focus on his Guts-Facade sets, since that's its niche.
  15. Agonist

    Agonist He had seen it, felt its might, bent under
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    swellow is shit without guts activated, and your basically tossing that out the window just to get weather up, when swellow would be better off trying to actually do something it can do, which is abusing guts boosted facades, and brave birds
  16. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming The truth is in my hands
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    Urgh... Swellow didn't get squat. He is exactly the same as last gen...

    Nice write-up.
  17. lmitchell0012

    lmitchell0012

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    I think you guys are forgetting something. Swellow has amazing speed, so he actually has a better chance of getting weather off than ninetails or politoed. Ninetails and politoed have good speed, but it's not as good as swellow's, so they're more vulnerable to taunt than swellow is. I think that swellow has a better chance of successfully getting the weather activated, due to his speed.
  18. Agonist

    Agonist He had seen it, felt its might, bent under
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    are you retarded? Ninetails and Politoed instantly activate the weather, as soon as they come into play, assuming they have drought and drizzle. Taunt has nothing to do with it.
  19. Paradox

    Paradox

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    Clear Skies... ie its sunny... That's not a mistake.

    And Swellow has absolutely no business running Sunny Day/Rain Dance, I don't even want to get into it but...

    There are faster users, there are bulkier users, there are users that can abuse the weather effects. Swellow would also then lose Guts (no Toxic/Flame Orb), losing the only thing good about it aside from its speed.

    Not to mention Politoed/Ninetails...

    Everyone, please don't talk about terrible sets and irrelevant bullshit like Serebii's move descriptions...
  20. ungulateman

    ungulateman

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    In my opinion, we should all ignore lmitchell and hope that he learns to double-check information and keep in mind any weather-inducer which isn't auto-inducing is now not worth using.

    Back to Swellow. He hasn't changed much, from what I've looked at. A Scrappy CB set might be worth it to troll Ghost-types, but it's still walled by Steels (and Rocks bar Steel Wing).
  21. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    The only problem with this is that without Guts, he is severely outclassed by many others of his flying brethren. Sure, it is a possibility, but there seems to be little point to use it when there are stronger options, and when Brave Bird is equally effective against ghosts anyways, especially since the Rotom formes are no longer part Ghost.
  22. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
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    I would suggest that you remove Roost on the physical attacker set; Swellow does not have the defenses to recover its health. Basically, it should be used as a kamikaze Poke, to atleast one kill before it gets KO'd.

    Other than Gengar, most of the bulky Ghost types in OU(Dusclops, Desukan, Burungeru) are bulky enough to take one hit, or KO Swellow. Skarmory walls it to death as well.
  23. GtM

    GtM

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    I agree. Considering that Rotom-A is no longer a Ghost... there's officially no Ghosts that resist Flying in the game apart from standard Rotom, who's going to get slaughtered anyways. Scrappy is completely redundant on something with dual STAB.
  24. Paradox

    Paradox

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    Remove the physical attacker set entirely. The only difference between it and the Guts set is Scrappy, which as has been said, sucks. Guts Brave Bird hits every ghost far harder than LO Scrappy Return. It even does more against Rotom, the only ghost that resists Flying (Guts Brave Bird does 56.4% - 66.8% against 0/0, LO Return does 42.3% - 49.8%).

    The Guts set is the only one Swellow needs and the only one that it can use effectively. You can mention Roost and Life Orb/CB in Optional Changes, but there is no way that a Toxic/Flame Orb Swellow is effective enough to warrant its own set.

    Also
    This isn't true, they do the same damage on the second turn, and Toxic Orb does more on the third.
  25. lmitchell0012

    lmitchell0012

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    If I recall correctly, I believe that swellow is the fastest non-uber pokemon who has access to sunny day (not sure about rain dance though) this generation (deoxys also gets it, but he'll probably be banned soon anyways). Just something to think about. Everyone keeps saying how ninetales outclasses him in terms of this, but you also have to remember that EQ, rock, and water type moves are extremely common in OU, so it will be harder to safely switch him in. Swellow, on the other hand, is only weak to one of these common move types. The other move types he is weak against are slightly less common in OU that the types that ninetails is weak to.
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