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BW OU Swimmin Pools

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by CTC, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
    is Smogon Frontier's Stadium Baronis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    392
    Swimming Pools
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    Introduction
    This team is basically the embodiment of the the broken rain-dominant late bw2 scene. The idea is, throw together a bunch of rain sweepers and profit. With some of the biggest names in rain such as Toed, TornT, Keldeo, ThundT and an underused abuser azumarill, this team packs the firepower to absolutely overwhelm opposing weathers. I gave this team to my buddy GaryTheGengar for his ladder run during the TornT + Keldeo suspect, and he unsurprisingly achieved req's within hours with a record of around 70-5 with the few losses resulting from either hax or terrible matchup. He is a phenomenal ladder playe, and his record also goes to show the potential of this team. Later on in the suspect test my good friend Shurtugal also went 60-15 ish while I gave up after going 30-2 due to my impatience with d/c's and various bugs and glitches (no hate towards ps though, still the fourth best pokemon simulator behind po, netbattle, and shoddy. Maaayyyybe rsbots too ;])





    Team Building Process

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    Since this team is built to abuse the combo of TornT and Keldeo before their likely ban, I decided to base the team around the ridiculously hard hitting duo + the obligary frog.
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    The only things stopping a bulky water, a speedy wallbreaking water and a speedy hard hitting flying could only be ummm...limited in number? Dragons and sun could be an issue, and sub kyurem. Therefore I decided to add lead rak for its versatility and ability to reliably set up rocks or take out a threat, and more often than not it ends up doing both.
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    After I have established the offensive core, I found that I needed a wallbreaker/offense killer to add versatility to the team. I remembered a set that my good buddy Gr8astard introduced me to which is the double dancing Thundurus-T, which shreds most sandstall and sun while being very effective vs offense with its coverage and bulk
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    The last pokemon was supposed to form an offnsive core with keldeo to weaken all of its counters for a lategame horse sweep. Since nothing that switches into keld (tenta, ferro, latis, kyurem, jelli, toxicroak) switch into tornadusT barring wash, I needed a heavy hitter that could lure in and severly cripple those keldeo walls. This compounded with my need for priority gave me the idea to include Azumarill as the heavy hitter/ secondary win condition.
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    The Team


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]Terrakion (M) @ Focus Sash[​IMG]
    Trait: Justified​
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd​
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)​
    - Steal Rocks​
    - Swords Dance​
    - Close Combat​
    - Stone Edge​


    First off its the lead terrakion. This set is very self explanatory, as all you have to do is sash a hit for rocks or sd on the switch to cruel forre etc and knock them out then get rocks. This set has a great matchup with most teams and is my usual lead. Stealth Rocks cuz it's the best move in the game, 2 attacks that form arguably the best coverage, and sd for boosting on predicted switches to kill bulky shit.





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    [​IMG]Politoed @ Water Gem[​IMG]
    Trait: Drizzle​
    EVs: 216 HP / 252 SAtk / 40 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)​
    - Hydro Pump​
    - Ice Beam​
    - Hidden Power (Grass)​
    - Psychic​


    Politoed is of course the obligatory rain starter that runs the metagame at its current state. Since my team is so offensive in its natur i didnt want a soft hitting mon giving anything setup opportunities, namely croaker and dragons, therefore I slapped on a water gem to fake choice and dish out that spex hydro when needed. This set works amazingly well in luring in mons that set up on it and killing them. Using anything but hydro will fake a choiced item, and so will using hydro on croak/gastro. Then you simply bust out the super effective move and kill the switchin or severly damage them. I run enough speed for almost all bandtar who think they can switch into a choiced icebeam and pursuit, and are then drowned in a gem boosted hydro pump. This is also my backup croak killer, being able to kill croaks reliably by faking choiced item.


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    *Fuck LandT ;]*

    [​IMG]Tornadus-T @ Choice Specs[​IMG]
    Trait: Regenerator​
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd​
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)​
    - Sleep Talk​
    - Hurricain​
    - Uturn​
    - None/Focus Blast​


    TornadusT. What else can you say about this fiend. Spex hurricain absolutely demolishes anything that isn't murdered by my water powerhouses. Regenerator is broken AS FUCK and is 300% abusable especially with choice spex meaning you GAIN 5% for switching into rocks. not even lucario can not give as much of a fuck about rocks as tornT. On top of that this thing switches into grass types for ages, scouts like a tournament player, and brings momentum like no other mon. Most teams are one uturn away from eating a faceful of rain boosted Waterfals/hydros. Hands down uber material, and as much as I enjoy abusing it, TornT is almost as broken as my previous subject genesect and has to go ubers.



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    Show Hide
    http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/070/2/1/watchogus_by_neslug-d3bfv49.png
    lol
    [​IMG]Thundurus-T (M) @ Leftovers[​IMG]
    Trait: Volt Absorb​
    EVs: 152 Hp / 252 SAtk / 104 Spd​
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)​
    - Nasty Plot​
    - Agility​
    - Thunder​
    - Hidden Power (Ice)​




    This thing is an absolute monster. Once again shoutout to my boy Gr8 for introducing me to the set because it is surprisingly bulky and often times sets up +2 +2 and proceeds to shit on the metagame. Water types that try to come in on toed and keldeo are an open invite to double switch to Thund and dish out MASSIVE amounts of pain. After a nasty plot and a bit of pior damage ferrothorn is 2hkoed by thunder, and pretty much only gastrodon and life orb latis can hold back this beast.....temporarily. +2 Thunder absolutely demolishes ttar so there's no way it'll be switching in unless it's at full health, and ninetails is easily destroyed by it. It lives aboma's ishard comfortably and dispatches it with +2 hp ice/thunder. Perhaps the best check to it is mamoswine but with a team full of heavy hitting waters and fightings thundurus will not be an open invite for mamo to start rampaging.




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    [​IMG]Keldeo @ Choice Scarf[​IMG]
    Trait: Justified​
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Hp / 252 Spd​
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)​
    - Surf​
    - Hydro Pump​
    - Secret Sword​
    - Hidden Power (Ice)​

    Keldeo is pretty much the best scarfer in the metagame because it hits so hard for having its boosted speed and reliably revenges a plethora of threats. The lategame sweeping potential of rain keldeo is enormous, especially with dedicated team support. This is the classic and pretty much standard set, it reenges dragons, punches wholes with its great coverage and lures in bait for tornT and thundT to have fun (ie. celebi, jelli, cruel, ferro etc) With the 1-2 punch of keldeo and azumarill, my team has never had a problem sweeping up half dead pokes lategame. After Keldeos counters have been weakened there is literally very little that can be done to stop it as its natural bulk shrugs off most all priority and outspeeds basicall the entire tier.


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    [​IMG]Azumarill @ Choice Band[​IMG]
    Trait: Huge Power​
    EVs: 248 Hp / 252 Atk / 8 Spd​
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)​
    - Waterfall​
    - Aqua Jet
    - Ice Punch​
    - Frustration​


    This thing hits like a fuckin truck in rain and allows ZERO setup despite being choice locked. I didnt like superpower because it is set up fodder, and frustration ohkos croak, so the change was simple. The thing with using 4 heavy hitters that compliment eachother perfectly is to double switch frequently and spam attacks with the one that does the most damage to the opponent's team. Common walls to rain like ferro, cruel, jelli, latis, celebi, amoong cannot stand up to the core of torn thund keld azu because they simply hit too hard and gain momentum too quickly for the opponent to recover. The absurdly powerful late game aquajet also serves as my secondary win condition and has swept way more teams than azu gets credit for. His bulk along with enormous strength complements the team perfectly and is a great last piece in the puzzle
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    This team was very fun and effective to use, but unfortunately, suspect testing will likely mark the end of a torn + keld dominated rain era. This team has been very successful during this period and I would like to retire it to commemorate the broken metagame as the end of bw2 draws near. Shoutouts to GaryTheGengar who inspired the rain hyper offense playstyle for me and for playtesting the team and even using it to great success in tours, Gr8 who has constantly been giving me great sets and ideas, and Shurtugal who has always been supportive of my teams and who is one of the best teambuilding partners around ;] Also shoutout to the Ruiners for being HARD BODY BALLIN



    Swimmin Pools by Kendrick Lamar ;]
    PK Gaming likes this.
  2. Livio

    Livio
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    266
    Heyy CTC nice to see your RMT :3 now i m the rater è_é xP It s a really cool team, but you should need to fix somethings, go to rate it.

    • First off, you are running Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T without a spinner, so you are bit weak to Hazards, especially HO classics with Deoxis-D could be a big trouble, now even if I usually suggest to use Sword Dance Set on SashKion, because in BW Ou there are not lead from the moment there is a Wifi Clause, I have suggest you to replace Taunt instead of Sword Dance. Now you can stop the common set of Deoxys-D that anyway could have Magic Coat, but often it never use against Terrakion for a simple reason, it cant give you the way to setup with Sword Dance and more of times it run with Taunt.


    • Like second thing, I don t like you Polited x).The set has not an important usefulness and if you want to bluff a Choicer set, the better thing is to use Expert Belt. Now, i like much Psichic, but you have not way to hit Ferrothorn and a common drag-mag could give you some troubles from the moment you can only revengekill it (You have no steel :O). So, my advice is to replace Hidden Power Grass (Its 3 or 4HOKO to Gastro, totally useless except for Specs Set) and use Focus Blast instead of it, i already have explained the reason, no way to hit ferrothorn, and an offensive Politoed can t allow this. After, i d change Psichic to.. it s a good idea, but you have to replace Encore over it, in this way you can stop anyway him and dragons such as DD Nite/Mence have not setupp field. Now you can try to use Hidden Power Flyng>Surf and Icy Wind>Hidden Power ice, the idea is similiar to yours on Politoed, but now the object is Keldeo, your revengekiller, Toxicroak now has really really no Switch in on your team, you can hit a lot good Him, Breloom and an eventual Virizion too, with Icy Wind you can anyway hit hader the dragons, may fell their speed and so on. You can decide to change Hpump or Surf as you prefer, but without rain surf lost much more kills...
      Obviously you have to use 31 Ivs only in Spd and 30 in others so you can play 50/50 speed tie with Kion/Deo.


    • This suggestion it s enaugh easy, why you have not Superpower>Frustration? Well, I understand you want to hit Tentacruel or similiar things but from the moment Terrakion is 90% lead, and you ll lose 80% of time to set etc. you have not switch on it because you run with Hidden Power Ice>Focus Blast (Best choice imo) on Thundurus= No enter in case of SR inside, and have Tornadus-T that s always a bad switch if the opponent has got TwaveThorn. Your only Fight moves have a low accuracy, 70% and i don t want that God or Jesus have to come down every time you miss xD


    • Seriously last thing, you have to move 4HP evs on Tornadus-T to SpD/Def, you have Regenerator, right, but a stupid change of evs can give you some switch more.


    Well, your team has no enter onto Tornadus-T but yeah, you re right because you are using an offense, anyway you should consider some other setter of Stealth Rock such as Jirachi, that could be a good offensive setter too (I usually used Band U-turn/Iron Head/Fire Punch/Ice Punch), but this is only a possibility, not a really change i suggest you.


    Hope I Helped :) Good luck with the team

    Tl;dr

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    Terrakion @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Taunt


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    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Icy Wind
    - Hidden Power [Flying]

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    Politoed (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 216 HP / 252 SAtk / 40 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Focus Blast
    - Encore
    - Ice Beam
  3. Mr. Green

    Mr. Green

    Joined:
    May 14, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Hi, there

    You seem weak enough to entry hazards, in particular the Stealth Rock which are the most common, then suggest Taunt> Swords Dance of Terrakion, not to set them, and also to immobilize different physical Wall.

    Another weakness I noticed was the Sunny Day Team with Ninetales + Dugtrio> Gothitelle + Venusaur, these three or four Pokemon if they can (and they succeed once you trap and kill Politoed, considering you're not even sure you come and Spinner on Stealth Rock), since you have Tornadus-T team in this problem is easily unstoppable, it would be enough to change their Tornadus-T putting Life Orb> Choice Specs and Rain Dance> Sleep Talk, and consequently Superpower> Focus Blast, which is very more harm than Focus Blast Tyranitar, and Naive > Timid not to diminish the power of Superpower, so I suppose Sleep Talk was there for Breloom, which has no chance to get easy on your Pokemon as everyone he can hit hard Breloom , especially in the presence of Stealth Rock septate from Terrakion.

    On Thundurus-T suggest Lum Berry> Leftovers, who heals you from any status, such as the burn, poison and sleep. Making you use Nasty Plot and / or Agility with greater ease.

    While Politoed, Psychic seems useless, you hit us with those that move? Amoonguss? Breloom? Terrakion? These Pokemon already hit them very violently with Hydro Pump and Ice Beam, so I deliver thee Psychic for something more useful such as Encore to stop several dragons and any other Pokemon during Statup. Water Gem, however it seems a wasted item, because after use do not have it anymore and you risk of it being used on a Water resistor, making it useless, then I find most suitable Expert Belt, which increases the power of super effective moves, with which you can pretend choiced.
    Good luck, with your team!

    tl;dr
    Show Hide

    Taunt > Swords Dance (for Terrakion)

    Tornadus-T (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Hurricane
    - Superpower
    - U-turn
    - Rain Dance

    Lum Berry > Leftovers (for Thundurus-T)
    Encore > Psychic (for Politoed)
    Expert Belt > Water Gem (for Politoed)
  4. Mosquiton

    Mosquiton Tette

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2010
    Messages:
    137
    Ehi CTC, interesting rain team!

    Lately I've been using doubleboost Thundurus, this Pokemon is a really versatile monster and can be adapted to any situation: if the opponent uses an offense team you use agility for clean the opponent's team thanks to his high speed, also BoltBeam coverage is one of the best able to cover a large part of the metagame.
    However, if the opponent uses a stall sufficient to use Nastyplot to achieve his devastating special attack and create huge holes to the opposing's team, so i want recommend a quick change of Thundurus: I'm talking about Lum Berry.
    Thanks to Lum Berry will have the security to cure the status conditions that prevent you hit hard and decrease drastically your staying power, specially Bodyslam Jirachi would be to paralyze Thundurus and then you'd be Flinch with Ironhead and kill Thundurus, or even Chansey with toxic can kill you very quickly.
    In essence, the Lum Berry would be to help much against the defensive Pokémon that you should kill.

    At this point, let's focus on tornadus.
    His magnificent abilities allows us to recover life every time tom make switch, so why not abuse it? Entering the Life orb you have much more freedom in attack, eliminating the risk of being lock on sleep talk when you wake up.
    Using the Life Orb will also have the advantage of being able to use tornadus mixed with Superpower.
    With superpower you can hit much harder Tyranitar than focus blast 'cause there is the sand in the field, Tyra have his special defense increased, also you can hit much harder Chansey and also you haven't the risk to miss your move.
    Now i want make an important change in your team: Feraligatr is very similar to Azumarill but the crocodile have the access to Sword Dance and he can get so much power than Azumarill, it also has great mobility with access to priority and main stab water boosted from rain but also have superpower with which you hit really hard Ferrothorn and not lock to one move.
    Basically after a single sword dance and the boost of rain, Feraligatr acquires a disarming power capable of clean really effectively the opposing team.
    As a final step you should enter Taunt over Sword Dance to Terrakion, in this way you will avoid that Deoxys put on the your field too many hazards that surely would give you problems because you do'ot have the spinner and you have two stealth rock weaks.

    Feraligatr's damages:

    Aqua jet:
    Dragonite: 339 Atk (+2) VS 226 Def and 331 HP (60 Base Power): 174 - 205 (52.56% - 61.93%)

    Breloom: 339 Atk (+2) VS 196 Def and 262 HP (60 Base Power): 201 - 236 (76.71% - 90.07%)

    Garchomp: 339 Atk (+2) VS 226 Def and 357 HP (60 Base Power): 349 - 411 (97.75% - 115.12%)

    Waterfall:

    Max def/max hp Politoed: 339 Atk (+2) VS 273 Def and 384 HP (120 Base Power): 288 - 339 (75% - 88.28%)

    Max hp Rotom-w: 339 Atk (+2) VS 250 Def and 304 HP (120 Base Power): 314 - 370 (103.28% - 121.71%)

    Skarmory: 339 Atk (+2) VS 416 Def and 334 HP (120 Base Power): 379 - 446 (113.47% - 133.53%)

    Sets:
    Show Hide

    >Lum Berry @Thundurus
    >Taunt @Terrakion
    >LifeOrb and Superpower @Tornadus
    >Feraligatrs over Azumarill

    Feraligatr @ Splash Plate
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Aqua Jet
    - Superpower
    - Waterfall

    Tornadus (Tornadus-T) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Hurricane
    - Sleep Talk
    - Superpower
    - U-turn
  5. Bossnine

    Bossnine

    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Messages:
    23
    I know how you said that you like how Azumarill doesn't need setup, but never forget the Sub/Work Up/Focus Punch/Aqua Jet set. Come in on a bulky water, Sub, Work Up, and go to town. +1 Aqua Jet in the rain, as you know from the CB, is suprisingly strong, and FP just poops on Skarm and pretty much anything that doesn't resist it (or even does resist it, really!).

    Of course, you're team is obviously already tried and true, so testing this is kinda moot, but nevertheless Azumarill is kecka underrated no matter what set he runs! :heart:
  6. Frog

    Frog

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    94
    you need HP electric on keldeo or Politoed to handle gyarados, who can take on your water types with ease, at +1 with stealth rocks you might be swept.
    I would try gatr over azumarill but that is just preference.
  7. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte On a short LoA
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,025
    Hey CTC, cool Rain team!

    You look pretty solid and standard, so nice job there. It seems as if Dragon types are quite problematic for your team. Lati@s in particular can sponge much of your team's most prominent attacks and dish out heavy hits. DDancers that outspeed Keldeo can easily dismantle your team with their powerful outrages, since you lack steel types that can sponge hits for you. Your team can also have a few problems with bulky water types- as Thundurus is literally your only way to beat Jellicent reliably and the same goes for opposing choiced Toeds and Rotom-W. I feel as if your teams lacks the typing synergy Offensive Rain teams need to not only dish out powerful hits but also to sponge some attacks here or there in sacrifice for momentum. You're quite weak to hazards too; Deoxys D offensive could definitely give you problems since you're Choices team is very susceptible to being forced in and out. Your team is already solid as it is, but in order to help improve those little nitpicks, I think a change can be made. This change, imo, works best in the form of SubCM Jirachi over Thundurus-T.

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Timid / 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Substitute / Calm Mind / Thunder / Water Pulse


    The problem I saw with Thundurus was this- it couldn't help sponge any hits, nor did it have any immediate effectiveness, be it support or offense. Thundurus is the type of pokemon that can't be switched in and out too often due to its weaknesses, which of course forces players to play very conservitavely with a pokemon that's meant to be for offense- especially on a version without pivoting like yours. Jirachi, on the other hand, can put forth a lot more initially than Thundurus, as well as cover a wider range of offensive and defensive threats because of its bulk and typing. It still counters many bulky water types just like Thundurus, and with its bulk and CM it won't have any trouble setting up on them either. It can counter Dragons too, which is something Thundurus can not reliably do. Jirachi's Substitute also gives you an edge against Stall teams and support pokemon alike- as it can easily set up all Forretress / Ferrothorn. It's typing and good mixed bulk can let you use it as a sponge to tank hits even better when needed, and though it starts off slower Jirachi is a much more reliable sweeper in the long run. Substitute is essential for this set as it provides you with protection against crits and status. It also lets you set up on the blobs, who need to SToss twice to break your Sub. Calm Mind is essential as well; it gives you an extremely useful SpDef boost to help you set up more and take the massive amount of special attacks in the tier. It also boosts the power of your own attacks, making Jorachi a lethal threat. It's Thunder and Water Pulse are the bonuses of this set- as they allow Jirachi to cripple any opponent that stands in its path. Thunder is not only powerful but it also paralyzes- aiding your team in the defeat of opponent. Water Pulse confuses, and is for coverage, so if needed Psyshock / Flash Cannon can be used; it's up to you. Jirachi's flexibility and ability to set up and sweep reliably will definitely prove useful to your team.

    Now, for some touch ups. To stop Deo-D as well as hazard stacking leads, I'd definitely give Terrakion Taunt over Swords Dance. This lets you outspeed and prevent DeoD from laying down SR and Spikes that will definitely annoy your team. Taunt also prevents early setup sweepers such as DDnite from setting up before you can grab any real momentum. I'd also use Toxic over Psychic on Toed. You don't really have a good reason to use Psychic; Toxicroak is easily beaten by Torn / Azu and your new Jirachi, and Tenta is smashed by Jirachi as well. Toxic lets you cripple walls and shorten the timer for special sponges like Jellicent that love to switch in on you. Toxic's ability to fuck Ninetales can also give you a leg up in the weather war.

    Nice team, and good luck!
  8. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
    is Smogon Frontier's Stadium Baronis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    392
    Thanks for the rates guys~
    @Uomo: hi livio thanks for the rate ;] Taunt used to be the move over sd but most deod mcoat turn 1 anyways so theres really no point in taunt. Everyone expectstaunt because the rak lead is so blatantly obvious, and overall sd has proven to be the better move. The thing with my poli set is, gem is required to take out bandtar before it starts to rampage seeing as my team is too offensive t take on band and spex mons so i have to take it out asap. Gastro is a huge issue but i'll try toxic + fblast on toed seeing as the ability to hit ferro is invaluable. On azu, superpower is just too prone to being setup fodder so id much rather spam waterfall or pull double switches anyways, seeing as frustration + waterfall yield quite good of a neutral coverage. Keldeo's hp ice is needed to kill nite after scale is broken and 2hko offensive latis, and the power drop with icy wind is quite noticable. I'll change the evs on tornt though, thanks for the catch!
    @Mr.Green: thnx for the rate ;] I'll try lo torn but the power differnce is noticable, and on this team i want raw output and not utility. Though the ability to hit ttar hard and change weather is great, lo + rocks is gonna wear it down fairly quickly, and naive nature also discourages it from switching into attacks like i always use it for. Wortha go still. Lefties on thund puts me out of espeed range from nite, bp from zor, and is generally better for setting up on ferro and the likes. As i explained before, Gem is needed on toed to kill tar in sand, so ebelt is inferior.
    @Mosquiton: Thanks for the rate! I've been contemplating a member for the last spot at first, and I found that i needed a heavy hitter like band rak, the hit and run type. Gatr v Azu is like sd rak v band rak, where sd rak is often times the win condition. However, keldeo + banded aj's are usually my win conditions, and most of the time i need azu to dish out heavy punishing hits, so i wont have time to setup like on a balanced team, plus hazards + possible tspikes will render gatr less usefull than azu. Since azu is basically as powerful as +2 gatr right off the bat, i need its immediate hitting power to punch holes.
    @bossnine: thanks for the rate, but as i said before, no time to set up ;[ banded azu hits too hard off the bat to forego for a setup mon
    @frog: thanks for the rate. I havent been swept by a gyara yet because azu takes on gyara very well and kos even max hp variants after rocks w return. if it's too low to take a hit i can just aj and hydro to finish it off.
    @Electrolyte: thanks for the rate ;] I think even though jirachi will help alot vs latis etc, it'll not be as effective at wallbreaking as thundurusT. I have tried rachi on more stndard and more balanced variants of rain but it is too prone to setup and doesnt hit remotely hard enough off the bat. The key of my team is to always be on the offense and never to be taking any attacks, so usually i just sac around latis and make do with torn + keld + azu. If they stay in on azu i live any hit and kill w waterfall, or something else on their team is gonna lose half their hp. Thanks for the suggestion though i will try out a variant of the offensive cm rachi to see if it works.

    -----ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ CTC
  9. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    Oh man you have an awesome team here, i really like that thundurus-t, in fact i was trying to do a spread like that :3
    The extra hp really helps giving you chance to setup an agility or a nasty plot, but what i think is useless is leftovers. Sure its good to recover a little, but Lum berry also has its merit. First, you dont need to care about Special defensive jirachi and his paralisis with body slam, also it can avoid random burn and spore (if you put lum berry on Thundurus, make sure to put something more usefull over sleep talk on torn, like Air slash or Rain dance, since you can switch thundu into breloom) it can also come in handy to bluff an another set, letfovers is too mandatory so your opponent can actually expect a boosting set and play better against it.

    Now i think you miss a fight move somewhere. Focus blast on Politoed would be at least good to do a chunk to ferrothorn which is a big threath for your team assuming that terrakion is a lead and it will be dead soon, but since you have psichic for Toxicroak i cant replace it. I would honestly go with the suggestion that mosquiton already gave you, superpower feraligatr is actually a good pokemon in general, being able to clean better in lategame and to eliminate ferrothorn with superpower. If you dont want to do this change, then i recommend you to put superpower over frustration on Azumarill, because ferrothorn can just stop politoed, thundurus, keldeo risks to be locked in secret sword and tornadus-t cant do enough damage (50% is not enough to take it down) and i dont know what you mean with "superpower is setup fodder", every choice locked move can be used as setup fodder. Also you already have psichic toed and tornadus-t for toxicroak which i think is already enough.
  10. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    Since I've used this team quite a lot (as CTC mentioned), I'm going to comment on other rates:

    @Jirachi suggestion:

    I don't like it because this team is too fast pace for it. Not a bad suggestion but it doesn't fit this teams playstyle.

    @Encore / Toxic on Politoed:

    I actually find Psycic most superior because it hits Toxicroak, and +2 Toxicroak is quite a threaten when +2. However, I would use Perish > Encore if I had to, and Toxic is a waste of a move on such an offensive, fast pace team.

    @Taunt Terrakion:

    To b fair, I go back and fourth, but I prefer the immidete power of SD.

    @Azu < Gatr:

    I disagree. Azu doesn't require immidete set up, which has immidete power compared to Gatr. 1 less turn settig up is a turn Azu is threatening the opposition. However, I do think that Superpower > Frustration is something you should try CTC since Ferro really is a bitch.

    @Specs vs. LO:

    Besides using the utility in RD (which is situational; as I find TornT finds little to no time to actually set up RD), I don't see the point of the switch. With lack of Spikes support, the immidete power breaks teams harder and faster alongsie Azu. I'd say keep Specs.

    @Moving EVs on TornT:

    I agree. CTC you know better :o

    @FB over HP Grass:

    Hmmm.... Gastro's handled by Specs TornT so why not? Ferro is a huger, more seen threat.

    @Lum over Lefties on Thundy-T:

    I personally don't think its good for this ThundyT set. Its bulk invested in HP allows it to live multiple priority attacks (even Ice Shard from non-LO Mamo) and lefties help it greatly take attacks so it can set up. However, it can't hurt to test it lol.



    I seriously love this team CTC <3. Good job with it ;]
    gl
  11. BKC

    BKC <&gr8astard> thrash metal! woo
    is a Tutoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Castle Valetis a Past WCoP Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 16 Champion

    Joined:
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    greetings cinnamontoastcrunch, im a big fan of cb azu so ill give you a rate. feel priveleged.

    you might want to consider a different ev spread for thund-t; 40 HP / 96 Def / 252 SAtk / 16 SDef / 104 Spd is more efficient [it gives you better overall bulk while still outrunning everything you need to, i.e. scarf latios and below]. give it a shot. you can take some evss from satk if you want it to be really bulky, not like thund is desperate for all the strength it can get, especially since youve got nasty plot.

    in a similar vein, azu is more bulky with evs of 224 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def / 16 SDef.

    other than that good team albeit a bit standard but theres double dance thundt so i can somewhat forgive it. sash breloom sucks and so does lo latias. gl brah
  12. Kidogo

    Kidogo

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    461
    This is a p awesome team i got to say. Really my only suggestions would be maybe to tweak with toed's set and perhaps thundurus's. On Toed, while water gem is cool and all for bluffing specs, I often find myself just wanting to spam hpump with toed, which I can't do if I'm trying to save the item for the bluff. For this reason, Splash Plate might be a better item, since it boosts your water moves a bit (1.2x iirc) while letting you maintain the choice bluff. Ebelt is also a viable option as well, I find neutral hits more valuable though. The 1.5x boost is cool and all so keep that if you feel you need the power, this is more consistent and allows you to use hpump without giving away the surprise of the set.

    I often find with double dance thundurus that I never have time to set up both of them, and so end up being unable to finish my sweep because I'm either too slow or too weak. IDK if this is your experience and if you find yourself with the time to set up, ignore this part xD. A good option though is using LO agility thundurus, with a moveset of agility / thunder / hp ice / focus blast or grass knot. The added coverage here is nice since it allows you to bust through either ferro or gastro, while LO means you really don't even need that NP boost. This set can really tear through teams at +2, and OHKOs a ton of stuff (SpD scizor, SpD ferro, most things that don't resist thunder). Double dance thundurus is a cool set too though, and if you can pull that one off then by all means stick with that, this set I just find easier to set up with.

    Really nice team man, looks very effective. Luvdisced :D

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