Its_A_Random
A distant memory
This thread will be moderated to keep discussion focused.
ITT: We decide to review the Switch = OK rules, because it 1. Needs to be updated, & 2. There are a few niggling aspects with the rules that need to be clarified. The purpose of this discussion is to basically, find a set of Switch = OK rulings we can all agree on or something, idk. Here are the current Switch = OK Rules as they stand:
[BOX]Switch = OK: At the end of each round, a trainer may switch their Pokemon. If they do, the Pokemon they send out must issue attacks first. The same trainer cannot switch on consecutive rounds unless an Attack like U-turn, Volt Change, or Teleport is used. Trainers whose Pokemon are returned through the effects of moves like Dragon Tail, Circle Throw, Roar, and Whirlwind do not have to move first the next round.
Voluntary switches occur only during a switching phase.
A Switching phase may only be initiated by the trainer moving first that round. Instead of issuing commands, the trainer may instead initiate a switch and offer their opponent a chance to switch their Pokemon. If the opposing trainer accepts and switches their Pokemon, that trainer forfeits the advantage of moving second that round.
A Switching phase has only two possible outcomes:
1. Player A Switch > Player B Declines Switch > Player A Orders > Player B Orders.
2. Player A Switch > Player B Counterswitch and Orders > Player A Orders.
Tag Team Battles operate the same with both team members on the same team switching their Pokemon first. The team which performs the most switches in the switch phase moves first. (e.g. if both trainers on a two person tag team switch, but only one of their opponents does, their opponents still move second)
Melee battles go through each trainer next in the order. Attack Order is then determined in the reverse order of trainers who switched. (eg. Trainer A initiates switch phase. Trainer B makes a switch, Trainer C declines to switch, then Trainer D makes a switch. The attack order would now be D > B > A > C. Because D was able to see the decisions of all other players, D is punished the most for deciding to switch after B switched and C declined.
Any Battle large enough to require orders via PM will automatically be set to Switch=KO[/BOX]
I proposed a potential solution to the issues that I felt needed to be fixed with the updates & shit. The post was:
The solution was supported, but there was an overwhelming consensus that a discussion was necessary in order to come up with a set of rules we can agree on.Okay, this needs to be done.
<Current Switch = OK Rules go here>
There are some issues that exist in the current rules that I feel need fixing. These are:
So we need a solution. This is my proposed solution:
- The obscure cannot initiate a switch phase on consecutive rounds ruling — Nobody follows it, so that needs to be abolished ASAP.
- Lack of clarity in some sections — This should be fixed.
- Switch Phases involving trapping moves/abilities/whatever — This is vague & is pretty much unwritten as a ruling, so clarifying it should be necessary.
[BOX]Switch = OK: At the end of each round, a trainer may switch their Pokemon. If they do, the Pokémon they send out must issue attacks first if their opponent does not switch with them. Trainers whose Pokémon are returned through the effects of moves like U-turn, Volt Switch, Teleport, and Baton Pass have to order first next round, though they may still initiate a switch phase if they wish to do so. Trainers whose Pokémon are returned through the effects of moves like Dragon Tail, Circle Throw, Roar, and Whirlwind do not have to move first the next round.
Voluntary switches occur only during a switching phase.
A Switching phase may only be initiated by the trainer moving first that round. Instead of issuing commands, the trainer may instead initiate a switch and offer their opponent a chance to switch their Pokémon. If the opposing trainer accepts and switches their Pokémon, that trainer forfeits the advantage of moving second that round. During a Switch Phase, if a trainer switches in/out a Pokémon with the Shadow Tag/Arena Trap Ability, or switches out a Pokémon that has trapped another Pokémon through the use of Block/Mean Look/Bind/Clamp/Fire Spin/Magma Storm/Sand Tomb/Whirlpool/Wrap, then the opponent can still Counterswitch the Pokémon that were trapped through such means. Should the opposing trainer have no living Pokémon in the bench, then the offer to Counterswitch is automatically declined.
A Switching phase has only two possible outcomes:
1. Player A Switch > Player B Declines Switch > Player A Orders > Player B Orders.
2. Player A Switch > Player B Counterswitch and Orders > Player A Orders.
Tag Team Battles operate the same with both team members on the same team switching their Pokemon first. The team which performs the most switches in the switch phase moves first. (e.g. if both trainers on a two person tag team switch, but only one of their opponents does, their opponents still move second)
Melee battles go through each trainer next in the order. Attack Order is then determined in the reverse order of trainers who switched. (eg. Trainer A initiates switch phase. Trainer B makes a switch, Trainer C declines to switch, then Trainer D makes a switch. The attack order would now be D > B > A > C. Because D was able to see the decisions of all other players, D is punished the most for deciding to switch after B switched and C declined.
Any Battle large enough to require orders via PM will automatically be set to Switch=KO[/BOX]
Okay, the obscure ruling is gone, that is obvious. I mentioned how the auto-switch moves affect turn order, that is obvious. I mentioned how trainers with no reserve cannot Counterswitch, obvious. The real controversial part, I believe, is this added section:
[BOX]During a Switch Phase, if a trainer switches in/out a Pokémon with the Shadow Tag/Arena Trap Ability, or switches out a Pokémon that has trapped another Pokémon through the use of Block/Mean Look/Bind/Clamp/Fire Spin/Magma Storm/Sand Tomb/Whirlpool/Wrap, then the opponent can still Counterswitch the Pokémon that were trapped through such means.[/BOX]
Okay, here is the niggling part that would see opinions divided. Do not get me wrong, the ability to trap something you want to take out is very powerful in its own right, but the major problem comes in this: Do we follow in-game—where Double Switches are a thing—or do we follow the Anime, where there is an "I switch, then you switch" thing? I believe we should—for the sake of clarity & balance—try to apply the two in separate occasions. Switching in a st/at mon should follow in-game where you can double switch & avoid having your weaker Pokémon trapped, while switching out the trapper should follow the Anime where you switch out, but when you switch out, so does the trapping effects, allowing the opponent to counter-switch, since there is nothing stopping them from not switching any more, right?
Any thoughts? Especially the whole switching trappers thing since I honestly doubt that is going to be agreed on...
Discussion should focus on the following questions:
- "The same trainer cannot switch on consecutive rounds..." is an obscure ruling that nobody tends to follow. Should this be removed? Why?
- There are several things that were clarified in the quoted proposal, including the whole "Attack first if you use an auto-switch move" thing, & the whole "If you switch and the opponent has no reserve, the counter-switch offer is automatically ignored" thing. Are these clarifications acceptable? Why?
- Switch Phases involving trapping moves/abilities/whatever: There are a few rulings around involving them, but none are "written", so to speak. How do you feel these should be resolved? Is the proposed solution in the quoted post the best way to go about this, or is there a better way? Why?
- Any other issues concerning the current Switch = OK rulings do you feel need to be addressed? Why?