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Syclant Analysis Workshop

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by Sunday, Mar 21, 2008.

  1. Sunday

    Sunday God Bless Nintys Incompetence :*)
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    Now that we've all spent a fair amount of time on Shoddy learning the ins and out of Syclant and with the 'CaP Stratergy Dex' sticky, I feel it is prudent to re-work the Syclant analysis to free it of theorymon and bring it to the highest possible quality.


    [SET]
    name: Tail Glow 'ant
    move 1: Tail Glow
    move 2: Ice Beam / Blizzard
    move 3: Bug Buzz / Focus Blast
    move 4: Focus Blast / Hidden Power [Ground]
    item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
    ability: Mountaineer
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 Satk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    This set would be nigh on uncounterable if it could run all listed options at once, and is thus very threatening when the opponent does know exactly what moves you're carrying. After a Tail Glow Bug Buzz will 2HKO all bulky waters, a Blizzard will 2HKO all who do not resist it bar Blissey and Thick Fat Snorlax. Hidden Power [Ground] makes Lucario, Heatran and most importantly Tentacruel squirm while Focus Blast will deal with Blissey, Snorlax, Regice, and Registeel. Mountaineer actually allows Syclant to switch in with Stealth Rocks on the field, and unless you can provide a large amount of Rapid Spin support is the preferable option.


    [SET]
    name: Mixed Sweeper
    move 1: Ice Beam
    move 2: Bug buzz
    move 3: Brick Break
    move 4: Substitute / Tail Glow
    item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
    ability: Mountaineer
    nature: Naive / Rash
    evs: 200 Atk/ 56 Satk / 252 Spd

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Syclant has the ability to tear through many of the most common walls in D/P. Ice Beam is a great STAB in the OU Metagame which is the only one you will see Syclant playing in. Brick Break deals with Blissey and will 2HKO 90% of the time. Bug buzz provides a strong STAB that deals with many opponents. Substitute can be used if you do not want to risk mispredicting, which will often force Syclant to switch out. It is also useful to absorb Thunder Waves from Blissey and Cresselia. Focus Sash can be used to garuntee you get at least one Tail Glow in, but is best used with Weather support from Abomasnow.

    If you do use Substitute than Superpower becomes an option over Brick Break as it can 2HKO Blissey with less EVs, but it does not allow for repeated hits.


    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Ice Shard / Ice Punch
    move 3: X-Scissor
    move 4: Brick Break
    item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
    ability: Mountaineer
    nature: Adamant / Jolly
    evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

    [SET COMMENTS]
    This is a full physical version of Syclant. It's attack reaches astronomical levels after a Swords Dance. Ice Shard takes care of anything that thinks it can switch in on the Swords Dance and outspeed for a KO. Ice Punch provides a more reliable Ice STAB.

    Fire Fang, Thunder Fang, Stone Edge, Night Slash or Shadow Claw could be used over Brick Break. Fire fang dents Forretress, who would otherwise wall you, after a SD. Thunder fang is your best bet against Gyarados. Stone edge (or Rock slide if you don’t like the poor accuracy and want to take advantage of the flinch chance) has great coverage and can 1HKO some Pokemon you would otherwise have problems with after a Swords Dance. Night slash or Shadow claw can beat down Dusknoir. Superpower is not an option on this set as the attack drop conflicts with Sword Dance.


    [SET]
    name: Specs Syclant
    move 1: Ice Beam / Blizzard
    move 2: Bug buzz
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Earth Power
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Mountaineer / Compound Eyes
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 Satk / 252 Spd

    [SET COMMENTS]
    This set has the ability to do massage damage to most of the OU metagame, provided you predict right. Coupound Eyes helps the low accuracy of Blizzard and Focus Blast, but make sure you have adequate spin support as Syclant wants the ability to switch freely with this set. Mountaineer is, as always, the "low maintenance" option. Superpower and Ice Beam allows you to still dent Blissey and also be immune to SR, but this restricts you to Hidden Power [Ground] in the final spot as Earth Power is illegal with Superpower. Keep in mind that only Modest Nature and Focus Blast are able to 2HKO without SR.


    [Other Options]
    Stone Edge is a good option for dealing with the likes of Moltres and Articuno. Superpower is unable to 1HKO Blissey even with max Atk, so isn't of much note other than on the Choice Specs set, or to 2HKO with less EVs. Thunder Fang and Earth Power will 1HKO Gyarados and Heatran respectively, but don't be tempted to use them on anything that isn't 4x weak as unresisted STAB Blizzard or Bug buzz will usually do more. Most of the time its incredibly powereful STABs will cover it better than a single attack that hits Super Effective against a certain Poke. Choice Band is also an option if you don’t want to have to set up your Physical sweeper, but Syclant isn't build for repeated switch ins. Choice Scarf makes it a decent lead, but be sure to max the Atk stats as much as possible.

    Probably fine.
    [EVs]
    Neutral Natured Syclant with max Atk and Life Orb is never guaranteed to 2HKO Blissey with Break Break, but 200 EVs Provide a very reasonable chance and a guaranteed KO with SR in play. Any EVs Leftover from your main form of offence should go into Speed. Always make sure that Syclant can survive two switch ins to SR if running Compound Eyes. This means NEVER give it four Hp EVs. Either eight or none.


    [Opinion]
    Syclant can tear through some of D/P's prestige walls, but is extremely high maintenance. Its typing is a mixed bag. It has two wonderful STABs for an offensive Poke, but is hindered by a horrible SR weakness. Mountaineer takes care of this, but leaves it using a weaker STAB. If you can keep Syclant in good condition then it will be a great asset to your team.

    In order to survive, Syclant relies on its extremely powerful and accurate STAB moves and its impunity to Stealth Rock. Taking either one of these away will weaken it significantly. If it is running the Compound Eyes ability, an opponent that can use Stealth Rock and prevent them from being spun away will stop Syclant in its tracks. If Syclant is using Abomasnow's hail for 100% Acc Blizzard then your own weather changer will hinder it.


    [Counters]
    Tentacruel is a good overall counter, and is really only vunerable to Choice Specs Earth Power. Heatran can come in on the STABs and 1HKO if it's scarfed, but does not fare well against Brick Break or the aformentioned Earth Power. A bulky Gyarados can come in the majority of Syclant's movepool, save for Stone Edge and Thunder Fang. That same Gyarados Intimidates physical Syclants, and can take special hits with it's 95/100 defenses, along with resistances to Fighting, Bug, and Ground, the most common of Syclant's moves. Bronzong does well with Gyro Ball, great defences across the board and a resistance to Ice. Metagross can not be KO'd by anything bar a boosted Earth Power, and can threaten with Bullet Punch in responce. Registeel can take a Tail Glow boosted Focus Blast and come out still standing, but a lack of healing makes it hard for Registeel to switch in more than once or twice. Blissey is a good counter to the Spec set. Against the Mixant set, Blissey can come in on anything other than Brick Break and Substitute and can 1HKO Syclant with Flamethrower, or use a status move like Sing or Thunderwave. Priority moves, expecially Bullet Punch which Syclant is weak to, or Pokemon that outspeed Syclant can deal very heavy damage once they get in.
  2. KoA

    KoA The very best...
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    I'd just like to add that Syclant has a good chance of surviving a Max attack Metagross' Bulletpunch.
  3. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    i run this set, its the best i have found.

    [SET]
    name: Tail Glow 'Ant
    move 1: Ice Beam
    move 2: Bug buzz
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Tail Glow
    item: Focus Sash / maybe LO, but i find sash much better.
    ability: Mountaineer
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Satk / 252 Spd

    [SET COMMENTS]
    If you switch this in as a revenge kill on something slower you are almost guaranteed at least one Tail Glow thanks to Focus Sash and Mountaineer, once you get the TG up not much can stop you especially if they switched out and you still have your sash. This monster can beat Blissey if it lacks Flamethrower and Thunderwave, and only pokemon with 125 or more base speed (or Scarfers) can outspeed it to revenge kill it.
    you could run Compoundeyes over Mountaineer to give Focus Blast and Blizzard a better chance of hitting, but you would need to have serious rapid spin support as SR runs this set.
    Note that you cannot run Earth power on this set as it is iligal with Tail Glow.

    I find this set works much better than the mixant set as you have 200 more ev's in sp. attack and after a TG this set beats Bliss anyway without the need for BB.

    i would put a set more like this in the place of mixant

    [SET]
    name: Mixant
    move 1: Ice Beam
    move 2: X-Scissor / U-Turn
    move 3: Earth Power
    move 4: Brick Break
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Mountaineer
    nature: Naive
    evs: ??? (enough attack to 2KO bliss with Superpower, and 2KO Cressy with X-Scissor i dont know where to do these calks) Attack / ??? (anything left) Satk / 252 Spd
    i dont know where to do calcs

    This set has the ability to beat many of Syclants common counters, if fact it can beat every counter listed at the moment in the counters section (exept blissey) provided you predict right.

    i also like this set proposed by raikoulover





    some sets by maniclyracist

  4. Rena22

    Rena22

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    One problem

    Using Thunder Fang, Jolly, Life Orb Syclant will only do 60.42% - 71.09% to BulkyGyara after Intimidate. Without Intimidate it does 89.32% - 105.21%, which is more often than not a 2HKO rather than a OHKO.
  5. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Umbrelava: where did you do those calcs? i cant find a good place now that someone found metalkids is wrong.

    Tfang was only an option for the CB or SD sets.

    LS can you remove Expert Belt from the SD set, it does not have good enough coverage to use it well, F sash should be listed as a option.
  6. Rena22

    Rena22

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    I did use Metalkids because i dont do damage calcs often and its seems close enough, i havent really bothered looking for a better one (should i point that out in the original post?)

    As for the second part, it doesnt say it should only be used on CB or SD sets in the other options, it just briefly says it will OHKO Gyarados.
  7. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    it should say it, but what dothe calcs say?
  8. latinoheat

    latinoheat
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    so im readin through this and most of the counter list is based on it not having earth power+tail glow.

    so what exactly counters the following set:

    Compound Eyes
    252 speed/252 spe att
    Life Orb/Expert Belt

    Tail Glow
    HP Ground
    Blizzard
    Focus Blast/Superpower

    Every supposed counter on the counter list gets stopped by this, and if bullet punch metagross is the best you can come up with then scylant is overcentralising
  9. Amelia

    Amelia

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    Stealth Rock + Spikes + Toxic Spikes = Instant 81% damage. + Life Orb, and More poison...
    You desperately need a spinner for that.

    Also, SR = 50%. He needs a turn to Tail Glow, which you can use to switch in a Pokemon. Then, use a priority attack.
  10. latinoheat

    latinoheat
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    yes because all 3 sets of spikes will be down in most battles.
  11. Hyra

    Hyra
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    Bronzong with Gyro Ball. Switches in on the Tail Glow, nothing OHKO's, OHKO's in return with Gyro Ball. And if you run Bug Buzz to take on Bronzong, you can't deal with Blissey.
  12. latinoheat

    latinoheat
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    k i wasn't being a dick i could just not think of a counter.
  13. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Superpower can not be used with TG.

    LS what do you think if the sets i found? the pure TG sweeper is the main one, i think its Syclants best set.
  14. Amelia

    Amelia

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    Well, extremely defensive teams will place down all 3 spikes. Even if that's not the case... SR will be out 75% of the time.

    Most of the time, Syclant will run Mountaineer, just because 50% HURTS.
  15. darkie

    darkie mfw i see alison brie
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    I think Gyarados deserves a mention under Counters.

    SE and Thunderfang are not primary options for any of the sets, so Gyarados can come in reasonably safely. He threatens Syclant with Stone Edge and STAB Waterfalls.
  16. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    Blizzard 2KOs Gyra and 1KOs with TG
  17. Time Mage

    Time Mage

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    That's actually a Shoddy bug: Mold Breaker only works when the Mold Breaker pokémon uses an attack that could be affected (positively or negatively) by the opponent's ability.
  18. Sunday

    Sunday God Bless Nintys Incompetence :*)
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    Made some updates to the counters section. Eric, you need to expand on how exactly that set beats Blissey. You're very vauge in most of your descriptions. Try and sell them to me!

    I don't find the second mixant set you posted threatening enough. Mixants attack stats really aren't all the stellar without stat upping and even with expert prediction that set is stopped by quite a lot of the common counters whereas other sets are not.

    Most of the others are just slight variations of current sets (changing one or two moves an moving a few EVs arround) and don't really warrant their own set.

    I still want to hear everyone elses opinions about the alternate sets. But keep in mind that I don't want this becoming any bigger than a standard analysis.
  19. Hyra

    Hyra
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    Tail Glow set in over current MixAnt as the number one threat. Being able to 2HKO most everything after a Tail Glow is no easy feat. Something like:

    Syclant @ Life Orb/Focus Sash/Expert Belt
    Timid Nature *252 SAtk, 252 Spe, 4 Def* (unless there is something better)
    - Tail Glow
    - Ice Beam / Blizzard
    - Bug Buzz / Focus Blast
    - Focus Blast / HP Ground

    This set would be unwallable if it could run all the moves I listed at once. TG Bug Buzz is 2HKO all bulky waters, TG Blizzard 2HKO's all non-resists and non-Blisseys (Snorlax resists). TG HP Ground eats Tentacruel, Lucario, and Heatran alive and provides good type coverage the Ice Move. TG Focus Blast is for Blissey, Snorlax, Regice, and Registeel. Mountaineer/Compound Eyes is up to your discretion, but Compound Eyes is the better sweeper because it makes Blizzard and Focus Blast 91% accurate.

    Counters:
    Bronzong and maybe Cressy if it doesn't have Bug Buzz. Blissey + co if it lacks Focus Blast. Tentacruel if it lacks HP Ground. So it will always have a counter, you're just not sure which when you face it.


    I believe that is a much more effective way to deal with Blissey than using 200 EVs for attack.
  20. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    ok, TG Focus Blast 2KOs Blissey, with the right moves it can 2KO dam near anything, and with 121 base speed maxed out even revengeing this this is almost impossible. my set is basicly the same as hyras, but his has HP ground as an option over Focus Blast and Expert Belt as an option over LO/FS.

    Also Registeel beats it i think, so long as it is not 1KOed by TG FB, it can KO with Iorn Head.

    My Mixant set can hit hard without needing a Choice Item or a stat up move, it may not be the best mixed set but the one you have up there now is inferior in almost every way to the pure TG set.

    RaikouLovers SubPetaya set is pretty diferent, i dont know how well it works so i cant say much about it.

    I think Maniacs first set could be the new Mixant, and i am not so sure about his second set i may testit though.
  21. Sunday

    Sunday God Bless Nintys Incompetence :*)
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    Registeel shits it's pants when it meets Hyra's spread. Tail Glow Focus Blast is going to put a dent into it for sure, and the most it can do back in one turn is to T-wave it.
    EDIT: Oh didn't see Iron Head. Still someone needs to do the calcs before I put it into counters. Also it's lack of healing hurts it quite a bit :( I wouldn't want to take a Focus Blast on the switch in as that would mean if Syclant Tail Glows next time I switch in Registeel is done for and you've got a boostes Syclant to deal with!

    Hyra's spread is great, I'll edit it in as soon as I get a stable internet connection.
  22. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    lol hyras is basicly the same as mine (his has HP ground and expert belt) and i proposed mine about 2 months ago and have been runing ever since.
    I made some little edits

    Syclant @ Life Orb/Focus Sash
    Timid Nature *252 SAtk, 252 Spe, 4 Def* (unless there is something better)
    - Tail Glow
    - Ice Beam / Blizzard
    - Bug Buzz / Focus Blast
    - Focus Blast / HP Ground
    ability: Mountineer

    [SET]
    name: Tail Glow 'ant
    move 1: Tail Glow
    move 2: Ice Beam / Blizzard
    move 3: Bug Buzz / Focos Blast
    move 4: Focus Blast / HP Ground
    item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
    ability: Mountaineer
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Satk / 252 Spd

    Expert belt is vastly inferior to Fsash as almost anything you hit SE will die anyway after a TG and if LO's recoil puts you off yo can use FS to get a free TG.
  23. Sunday

    Sunday God Bless Nintys Incompetence :*)
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    Well Hyra sold it to me better. I really believed him when he said it was unwallable. Now if your description mentioned that...(j/k) Thanks for writing it up in the propper format, that would have helped me about five minutes ago >.>

    (also Speed is abbreviated to Spe iirc)

    anyway, do you have any quarrels with the description of the set? I'll admit the name has to change that was just a random whim of mine. I'll change it to your name methinks.
  24. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    sorry i tryed but my writeing is not amazing, i also assumed you could see its power from the set without needing it spelled out.


    Lucario and Heatran DIE to focus blast. HP ground is more accurate though.
    other than that i think beating Blissey, Snorlax, Regice, and Registeel is more important than the not that common Tentacruel, HP Ground is not as good as Focus Blast.

    i missed yours
  25. Ash Borer

    Ash Borer Throttle Chopper

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    I seem to recall, that there was an SD ant set, that has a 100% chance of surviving a blissey's f-thrower and gross' bullet punch. I cant remember the spread, but it seemed pretty threatening.

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