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Syclar - Part 5 - Movepool Submissions

Discussion in 'CAP Pre-Evolution Workshop' started by Birkal, Sep 4, 2012.

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  1. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
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    In the first thread of this pre-evolution process, we discussed some of the overall ideas that we need to focus on for Syclar, the pre-evolution of Syclant. At the end, I threw out some thoughts that are necessary to consider for the future of Syclar. Please read through that post you you understand where I'm coming from in the following threads. Thanks!

    Good morning, CAP! It is a beautiful day and the world is a wonderful place to live =) We're moving on to movepool submissions! Syclant, the evolution of Syclar, already has a movepool; it can be found here (do not use the one found here; it is outdated and not canon).

    I cannot emphasize this next point enough; imagine me shouting it at you through cupped hands. WE CANNOT EDIT SYCLANT'S MOVEPOOL IN ANY WAY. It goes entirely against what this pre-evolution project stands for (here) by conflicting with the historically accurate section. We absolutely cannot edit, add to, or delete from Syclant's movepool. You can be as creative as you like, in theory, but stay within that parameter. Thank you.

    Also understand that Syclar currently has no evolution method to evolve into Syclant. I am requiring that all movepool submitters provide a means of evolution as well in their submission.

    If you need some help on your movepool, feel free to come consult us in #cap on IRC; we'd be glad to help. If you don't have any idea what movepool creation is all about, I recommend you sit in the back seat on this one and only provide suggestions when applicable. Thanks for your understanding.

    This will go on for however long people choose to participate, but try to submit your stuff within forty eight hours. Let's rock and roll.

    What we have so far:

    Name: Syclar
    Type: Ice / Bug
    Abilities: Compoundeyes / Snow Cloak
    Stats: 40 HP / 76 Atk / 45 Def / 74 SpA / 39 SpD / 91 Spe
    Sprite:
    [​IMG]
  2. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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    Just a heads up Birkal, that movelist is different to the one on the site for Syclant.

    I honestly do not know where that one came from, it has far more moves than any other Syclant moveset I have seen. I believe that set is from the updates that were then removed...
  3. akela

    akela

    Joined:
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    Has to be the case. Syclant has Tail Glow. We even discussed Tail Glow in the typing for Syclar. But that list doesn't have Tail Glow.
  4. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Actually, that's Syclant's original movepool.

    Which was then cut down, along with stats, when it was realised that Syclant was ridiculously overpowered.

    And was then increased in size during the CAP Revision Project

    And was then cut down again in accordance with the new movepool regulations

    And was then added to with the Pt and HGSS move tutor moves

    Or maybe the last two were the other way around? Can't quite remember

    Not to mention that the current movepool on-site looks a tad iffy as well. I mean, it doesn't include Megahorn, for one thing, despite it being a staple on the Swords Dance set in the analysis (neither does the original movepool, though, so um... no idea)

    Also, just because... I'd like to propose the following (this is /assuming/ that the movepool on-site is the correct one)

    -----------------------------------

    Final Submission

    Method of Evolving: Evolution by Level (Lv. 30)

    Level-Up

    Code:
    0	Leer
    0	Leech Life
    5	Ice Shard
    8	Focus Energy
    14	Slash
    18	Icy Wind
    27	X-Scissor
    30	Fury Attack
    33	Hail
    37	Bug Buzz
    42	Avalanche
    48	Ice Beam
    
    +Ice Beam
    +Fury Attack
    -Ice Punch
    -Sheer Cold

    Removed Sheer Cold (how can that tiny thing use Sheer Cold, really) and Ice Punch (it doesn't have hands) and replaced with Ice Beam and Fury Attack. Thus, we see a useful in-game way of getting a Syclant with Ice Beam without ransacking the DPP Game Corner (and don't get me started on Voltorb Flip) - I imagine Syclant evolves at Level 30, so therein lies the choice between Ice Beam and Ice Punch (delay it for a better move much). I would have put Ice Fang, but apparently that was removed ages ago in one of the various movepool edits that Syclant has had, so I guess I can't do that. Meh.

    Note that Fury Attack is listed as a pre-evolution only move for Syclant's most recent movepool, as detailed here, and so has to be a move in Syclar's level-up set, which Syclant doesn't get. Hence, it is given instead of Ice Punch as the move that Syclant would learn upon evolving, but doesn't.

    On another note, the levels are more bunched up for moves past Level 30 as pre-evolutions tend to learn moves faster than their evolved counterparts.

    TM/HM

    Code:
    TM03	Water Pulse
    TM06	Toxic
    TM07	Hail
    TM10	Hidden Power
    TM12	Taunt
    TM13	Ice Beam
    TM14	Blizzard
    TM17	Protect
    TM18	Rain Dance
    TM21	Frustration
    TM27	Return
    TM31	Brick Break
    TM32	Double Team
    TM42	Facade
    TM43	Secret Power
    TM44	Rest
    TM45	Attract
    TM54	False Swipe
    TM56	Fling
    TM58	Endure
    TM62	Silver Wind
    TM72	Avalanche
    TM75	Swords Dance
    TM78	Captivate
    TM80	Rock Slide
    TM81	X-Scissor
    TM82	Sleep Talk
    TM83	Natural Gift
    TM87	Swagger
    TM89	U-turn
    TM90	Substitute
    HM01	Cut
    HM06	Rock Smash
    
    -Focus Punch
    -Hyper Beam
    -Earthquake
    -Focus Blast
    -Giga Impact
    -Stone Edge
    -Strength

    Focus Punch is removed because it doesn't have hands. Hyper Beam and Giga Impact are gone because they're generally restricted to final-form Pokemon. Earthquake removed because it doesn't have any kind of body mass to speak of. Stone Edge removed because well it's kind of difficult to justify without Earthquake and what not (and it's also a bit too "big" an attack for such a little mite. In any case, it still has Rock Slide). Same thing for Focus Blast. Also removed Strength because, well, look at it. It could barely move a pebble, let alone a boulder.

    DPP Tutor

    Code:
    Bug Bite
    Counter
    Double-Edge
    Earth Power
    Fury Cutter
    Icy Wind
    Mimic
    Snore
    String Shot
    Superpower
    
    -Ice Punch

    I have removed Ice Punch since it doesn't really have hands and what not. I would have removed Superpower, but it's an Egg Move and it's not really worth taking out to be honest, other than to make it illegal with a bunch of stuff that doesn't matter anyway (which I've learned from experience is not kindly received).

    Egg Moves

    Code:
    Earth Power
    Pin Missile
    Spikes
    Superpower
    Tail Glow
    
    Well these kind of have to stay the same, otherwise it doesn't make much sense.

    ---------------

    Possible sets I guess

    Swords Dance @ Life Orb
    - Swords Dance
    - Ice Shard
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide / Brick Break / Ice Punch

    Tail Glow @ Life Orb
    - Tail Glow
    - Bug Buzz
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power / Focus Blast

    Spiky Thing @ Focus Sash
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Ice Shard / Ice Beam
    - Superpower / Earth Power

    ---------------

    So yeah this is basically exactly the same as Syclant...
  5. Menshay

    Menshay

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    Nothing really fancy, I just took Syclant's movepool and removed some moves I felt were unfitting.

    Level Up:

    0 Fury Attack
    0 Leer
    0 Leech Life
    5 Ice Shard
    8 Focus Energy
    14 Slash
    18 Icy Wind
    27 X-Scissor
    30 EVOLUTION (doesn't really matter, but this is flavour, right?)
    31 Hail
    36 Bug Buzz
    43 Avalanche
    50 Sheer Cold ?

    The only moves I removed are Fury Attack and Ice Punch: Fury Attack needs something sharp to jab the enemy with (beaks, horns, and more relevantly Beedrill's "hand stingers"), Fury Attack is apparenty required, while Ice Punch obviously requires bigger limbs (granted, there are exceptions like Gastly and Wooper, but I'm not sure they're extremely relevant here, plus they don't learn Ice Punch by level up). I envision Syclar evolving at level 30 and learning Ice Punch immediately after the evolution, like Flaaffy learns Thunderpunch upon evolving into Ampharos.

    The levels before evolution are unchanged to reflect real Pokémon. The levels after evolution are chosen to give the process of learning new moves a more "natural" feel, since the level gaps in Syclant's movepool feel just too awkwardly irregular. After level 27, new moves are learned after gaps of 4, 5, 6 and 7 levels: after evolution, those moves get delayed by 4, 6, 6 and 10 levels, in a similar way to Galvantula (whose delays are +3, +6, +9, +12). I would have liked an overall more regular learning schedule, but I'm assuming Syclant's levels are set in stone and having different levels before evolution would be unprecedented (I think?).

    Tutor:

    Bug Bite
    Counter
    Double-Edge
    Earth Power
    Fury Cutter
    Icy Wind
    Mimic
    Snore
    String Shot
    Superpower

    Removed Ice Punch (see above for reasoning), Superpower looks out of place but it's also an egg move, so yeah.

    Egg:

    Obviously the same as Syclant.

    TM/HM:

    TM01 Focus Punch Removed due to Syclar's lack of big enough limbs
    TM03 Water Pulse
    TM06 Toxic
    TM07 Hail
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM12 Taunt
    TM13 Ice Beam
    TM14 Blizzard
    TM15 Hyper Beam Pretty much final form only
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM26 Earthquake Not fitting
    TM27 Return
    TM31 Brick Break ?
    TM32 Double Team
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM52 Focus Blast Seems to be final form only except for Fighting types
    TM54 False Swipe
    TM56 Fling
    TM58 Endure
    TM62 Silver Wind
    TM68 Giga Impact See Hyper Beam
    TM71 Stone Edge Seems to be mostly reserved for final forms and Rock/Ground/Fighting types
    TM72 Avalanche
    TM75 Swords Dance ?
    TM78 Captivate
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM81 X-Scissor
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM87 Swagger
    TM89 U-turn Unsure, but not every bug gets it and it's mostly reserved for swift-looking stuff
    TM90 Substitute

    HM01 Cut
    HM04 Strength Not really "strong" enough
    HM06 Rock Smash

    I'm really surprised by Syclant's lack of Rock Climb.
  6. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    As a little follow-up to the last post:

    Syclant's original movepool was the one here, as in Birkal's OP.

    It was then nerfed a tad by losing a bit of Speed, Special Defence, and some moves (which included Spikes, Superpower, dual screens, and some other stuff) as detailed here.

    Then the CAP Revision Committee came along and added Earthquake, Focus Blast, Focus Punch, Grass Knot, Leaf Blade, Megahorn, Psychic, Spikes, Stone Edge, Super Fang, Superpower, Vacuum Wave, thus

    Finally, Syclant's movepool was reverted to the one currently on-site by taking out a bunch of moves, here.

    That's just a bit of digging to save anyone else the trouble.

    More importantly, it seems as though Fury Attack has been listed as a pre-evolution only move for the final Syclant movepool - hence should probably be listed as such in the OP.

    EDIT: On another note entirely, we appear to have inadvertently opened the veritable Pandora's Box of "what exactly is Syclant's movepool?". Huh.
  7. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
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    Thank you greatly for clearing up the confusion, bmb. I knew I would mess something up somewhere along the line in this pre-evo process, haha. Please refer to the movepool listed on site; it is the canonical movepool that we must take into consideration. I'll be updating the original post of this thread to convey that message. I'm sorry for the mistake.

    As a result, I will also be extending the timetable, so don't worry about finishing these up until around 48 hours from this post.
  8. Espeon65

    Espeon65

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    FINAL SUBMISSION:

    Level Up Moves:
    Code:
    0- Fury Attack
    0- Leer
    0- Leech Life
    5- Ice Shard
    8- Focus Energy
    14- Slash
    18- Icy Wind
    27- X-Scissor
    29- Endure
    32- Hail
    36- Bug Buzz
    43- Avalanche
    50- Sheer Cold
    I pretty much stuck to Syclant's movepool when deciding this one. I added Endure at level 29, since it symbolizes the jorney Syclar takes up the mountain right before evolving (evolution level set at 30), and so Syclar needs to learn to Endure the cold. I also got rid of Ice Punch, due to the no arms issue. I believe would be rather hard to punch with no arms. XD

    TM Moves:
    Code:
    03 Water Pulse
    06 Toxic
    07 Hail
    10 Hidden Power
    12 Taunt
    13 Ice Beam
    14 Blizzard
    17 Protect
    18 Rain Dance
    21 Frustration
    27 Return
    32 Double Team
    42 Façade
    43 Secret Power
    44 Rest
    45 Attract
    54 False Swipe
    56 Fling
    58 Endure
    62 Silver Wind
    72 Avalanche
    75 Swords Dance
    78 Captivate
    81 X-Scissor
    83 Natural Gift
    87 Swagger
    89 U-Turn
    90 Substitute
    I got rid of Hyper Beam, Focus Punch, Brick Break, Earthquake, Focus Blast, Giga Impact, Stone Edge, and Rock Slide for obvious reasons: no arms, too small, et cetera.

    HM Moves:
    Code:
    01 Cut
    
    I got rid of Strength and Rock Smash after some consideration since Syclar is rather small and weak-looking.

    Tutor Moves:
    Code:
    Bug Bite
    Counter
    Double-Edge
    Earth Power
    Fury Cutter
    Icy Wind
    Mimic
    Snore
    String Shot
    Superpower
    I thought about getting rid of Earth Power and Superpower, but then I thought that it would be futile since the egg moves have to stay the same. I got rid of Ice Punch due to the issue stated above about having no arms.

    Egg Moves:
    Code:
    Earth Power
    Pin Missile
    Spikes
    Superpower
    Tail Glow
    Obviously, nothing changed here.

    ------------------------------------------

    I made the evolution level 30, so that Syclant would learn Ice Punch upon evolution much like Flaafy learns ThunderPunch upon evolution into Ampharos. I think this is generally the same movepool that everyone else has, give or take. I really like CAP, and I think I'm gonna be sticking with it for awhile. I don't expect to win right now, and maybe not even for a while, but I feel like I should get the experience of making a movepool the easy way- using another pokemon as a very simple guide! I don't want to just jump into regular CAP, and create my own movepool, without having at least a little bit of experience. I still hope to win, though...
  9. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
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    As far as I'm aware, Syclar doesn't have an evolution level to go into Syclant. If someone can prove me wrong, then please go ahead. I haven't found anything in the CAP Process Archive to support an evolution level.

    Therefore, I am requiring that movepool submitters ALSO submit a method of evolution. I encourage you to pick something typical (like level-up evolution), but be as creative as you like. Just realize that creativity might come to hurt you when I make the slate. Thank you for your understanding!
  10. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
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    Final Submission


    Here is my take on the movepool.

    Level Up:

    For starters, like most people, I decided that Ice Punch made little sense on a Pokemon with no real arms, so that was taken out. I also could not see such a cute little thing using Sheer Cold, so I removed that as well. However, I did not really feel a need to change much else. It gets a few cool things from evolving, but that is it. A rather ordinary Pokemon in that regard. I did change the level of its last two moves though. This is because I see Syclar as evolving via level up at level 35. This is not as late an evolution as some other strong bug prevos, like Anorith, but I didn't think it should happen to early either, as it is significantly stronger than the all the 4th gen bugs who evolve in the 20s. Also, this makes it evolve when it learns Hail, symbolizing it having grown in to something that can handle the harsh environment.
    Code:
    0    Fury Attack
    0    Leer
    0    Leech Life
    5    Ice Shard
    8    Focus Energy
    14    Slash
    18    Icy Wind
    27    X-Scissor
    35    Hail
    40    Bug Buzz
    45    Avalanche
    
    Tutor:

    For tutor moves, the only moves I removed were Ice Punch, Earth Power and Superpower. Ice Punch, as I said in the level up part, just simply makes no sense, as it has nothing to punch with. Superpower was removed as, being such a small bug, I can't really picture it smashing things with Superpower. Now unfortunately, it will still have access to Superpower due to egg moves, but I see no reason to keep it here where it makes little sense. Earth Power was more based on type precedent. Only 4 bugs get the move, and of those, all are rock or ground, and only one is unevolved. While it may have had competitive relavance on Syclant, I would see it as a flavor mistake if we were to keep it.
    Code:
    Bug Bite
    Counter
    Double-Edge
    Fury Cutter
    Icy Wind
    Mimic
    Snore
    String Shot
    
    TM/HM:

    For the machine moves, I pretty much just followed the same kind of precedent based logic I used for Earth Power. I removed Hyper Beam and Giga Impact as Pokemon who are not fully evolved, never were fully evolved, and who don't get them via level up can never learn these moves via TM. Earthquake was taken out as most small, light Pokemon do not get it. Specifically with bugs, the only unevolved Pokemon who can use Earthqauke are Dwebble, who is also a Rock type, which is a typing strongly associated with that move, and Pineco whose evolution is also of a type that typically gets Earthquake. Focus Blast and Stone Edge were taken out as very few unevolved Pokemon can learn these moves outside of Pokemon of those specific moves' types. Rock Slide was also removed, but for slightly different reasons. While some unevolved Pokemon do receive this move, among bugs, the only ones that do are either rock types as well, or, Pineco, who, as before, has an evolution who's typing has a strong connection with the move. Finally, Strength and Rock Smash were removed from the HM moves for the same reason that Superpower was taken out of the tutor moves. Syclar just simply doesn't have the physical build to be able to use moves like these.
    Code:
    TM03    Water Pulse
    TM06    Toxic
    TM07    Hail
    TM10    Hidden Power
    TM12    Taunt
    TM13    Ice Beam
    TM14    Blizzard
    TM17    Protect
    TM18    Rain Dance
    TM21    Frustration
    TM27    Return
    TM31    Brick Break
    TM32    Double Team
    TM42    Facade
    TM43    Secret Power
    TM44    Rest
    TM45    Attract
    TM54    False Swipe
    TM56    Fling
    TM58    Endure
    TM62    Silver Wind
    TM72    Avalanche
    TM75    Swords Dance
    TM78    Captivate
    TM81    X-Scissor
    TM82    Sleep Talk
    TM83    Natural Gift
    TM87    Swagger
    TM89    U-turn
    TM90    Substitute 
    
    HM01    Cut
    
    Egg moves:

    Obviously the same as everyone else, but just so you can see it all in one place, here it is again.
    Code:
    Earth Power
    Pin Missile
    Spikes
    Superpower
    Tail Glow
    
    
  11. uxsee

    uxsee

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2011
    Messages:
    99
    Level Up
    Code:
    0	Fury Attack
    0	Leer
    0	Leech Life
    5	Ice Shard
    8	Focus Energy
    14	Bug Bite
    18	Icy Wind
    27	X- Scissor
    29	Hail
    37	Bug Buzz
    39	Ice Fang
    48	Ice Beam
    Slash does not make sense for me on this bug for me because it is a relatively strong move that involves powerful slashing with claws. It also has a high critical hit ratio and I cannot see Syclar doing any damage that ways (it could due to his strong LC attack). I chose bug bite because it is a weaker version of bug bite, unless you're scizor, and syclar looks much more like an insect then Syclant. Ice punch is just not possible on Syclar due to its lack of hands (lol). I replaced avalanche with ice fang because syclar does not appear to be physically able to make any sort of avalanche due to its size. Ice fang is in a similar vein to bug bite, as they both are based upon syclar's protruding teeth. Ice Beam is a "weaker" version of sheer cold and, again, syclar is not able to make a temperature at "ultimate cold." Ice Beam is an apt replacement because aurora beam and blizzard are not as related to sheer cold as ice beam and ice beam is a much more competitive option (even though it gets it by TM).

    The differences in levels in the final four moves were determined for joltik and anorith. (shelmet and karrablast differ and arcanine has its own shit level up movepool) and found that the differences are:
    Show Hide
    3, 6, 9, and 12 for Joltik
    and 3, 6, 12, and 12 for Anorith


    I then averaged them to get:
    Show Hide
    3, 6, 9, 10 (10.5 but nintendo rounds down)


    I subtracted these numbers from Syclar's levels for its last four moves to get:
    Show Hide
    29 37 39 48



    Move Tutor
    Code:
    Bug Bite
    Counter
    Double Edge
    Fury Cutter
    Icy Wind
    Mimic
    Snore
    String Shot
    
    Superpower makes no sense on syclar becuase it means "Great Power" and is defined as "Attack with tremendous force" and The user attacks the target with great power" which Syclar can clearly cannot do. Earth Power might seem like a strange choice but here's my logic: think of all the things that can't learn Earth Power (i.e. Latios, Kyogre, Latias). Ice punch can't work because he has no hands or fists (lol its a spider).

    Egg Moves
    Code:
    Earth Power
    Pin Missile
    Spikes
    Superpower
    Tail Glow
    Have to be the same. End of story

    TMs
    Code:
    TM03	Water Pulse
    TM06	Toxic
    TM07	Hail
    TM10	Hidden Power
    TM12	Taunt
    TM13	Ice Beam
    TM14	Blizzard
    TM17	Protect
    TM18	Rain Dance
    TM21	Frustration
    TM27	Return
    TM32	Double Team
    TM42	Facade
    TM43	Secret Power
    TM44	Rest
    TM45	Attract
    TM54	False Swipe
    TM56	Fling
    TM58	Endure
    TM62	Silver Wind
    TM75	Swords Dance
    TM78	Captivate
    TM81	X-Scissor
    TM82	Sleep Talk
    TM83	Natural Gift
    TM87	Swagger
    TM89	U-turn
    TM90	Substitute
    Basically, this is just a repeat of everything i have already said. Focus Punch, Brick Break, Avalanche, Earthquake, and Stone edge are all no t there because Syclar could not physically do them. Focus Blast, Giga Impact, and Hyper Beam are exclusive to final evos usually.

    HMs
    Code:
    HM01	Cut
    HM06	Rock Smash
    Syclar can't learn strength because it is not all that strong.

    Edit: Method of evolution

    Evolves at Level 31.

    Explanation, I found the type of evolution that is most common among stage 2 ice and bug types at came up with:
    Show Hide
    Stone- 2
    Level-up- 16
    Level up and- 4
    Trade- 3


    I then averaged all the levels at which the pokemon evolved at and got 31 (shared by venomoth and forretress).
  12. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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    Okay so here we go...

    FINAL SUBMISSION

    Level Up
    Code:
    Level	Move
    0	Fury Attack
    0	Leer
    5	Leech Life
    8	Ice Shard
    13	Focus Energy
    18	Icy Wind
    23	X-Scissor
    28	Hail
    35	Bug Buzz
    42	Ice Beam
    49	Sheer Cold
    
    Evolve at Level 30 -> Ice Punch
    I chose the level for Evolution based on the original moveset. Much the same as Flaaffy evolving into Ampharos and learning Thunder Punch. I've tweaked the levels slightly (Which I know isn't that common) because the irregularity bugged the hell out of me (No pun intended). I also added Ice beam over Avalanche because flavour.

    TUTOR Move
    Code:
    Bug Bite
    Counter
    Earth Power
    Fury Cutter
    Icy Wind
    Mimic
    Snore
    String Shot
    Superpower
    I decided to remove Double Edge and Ice Punch (and wanted to remove Super Power + Earth Power, but they are egg moves) from this little guys Tutor moves as they just kinda didn't make sense to me.

    TM List
    Code:
    TM	Move
    TM03	Water Pulse
    TM06	Toxic
    TM07	Hail
    TM10	Hidden Power
    TM12	Taunt
    TM13	Ice Beam
    TM14	Blizzard
    TM17	Protect
    TM21	Frustration
    TM27	Return
    TM32	Double Team
    TM42	Facade
    TM43	Secret Power
    TM44	Rest
    TM45	Attract
    TM54	False Swipe
    TM56	Fling
    TM58	Endure
    TM62	Silver Wind
    TM72	Avalanche
    TM75	Swords Dance
    TM78	Captivate
    TM81	X-Scissor
    TM82	Sleep Talk
    TM83	Natural Gift
    TM87	Swagger
    TM89	U-turn
    TM90	Substitute
    
    HM01 Cut
    Pretty much the same as everyone elses. I removed Focus Punch, Brick Break, Focus Blast and Earthquake for obvious reasons. Hyper Beam and Giga Impact are generally moves for only fully evolved Pokémon (there are a few exceptions). I also removed Rock Slide and Stone Edge because this guy hasn't become the Mountaineer that Syclant is. Took away all of his HM's too, apart from Cut, because I looked up whether or not Joltik got it and he does....

    Egg move list remains the same (as it must).

    EGG Moves
    Code:
    Earth Power
    Pin Missile
    Spikes
    Superpower
    Tail Glow
    There :)
  13. Drifblim

    Drifblim

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Messages:
    550
    Might as well give it a shot!

    Final Submission

    Level Up Moves

    Up until Lv 30, these were very simple decisions, just the same level Syclant gets them because they all make sense to me at those levels. I figured all of the Level 1 moves could be kept, none of them are truly strong. In game, would Syclar be on the field long enough to get a good multiplier on Fury Attack? Unlikely. Would also be odd for Syclant to get it at Level 1 when Syclar gets it later then that. After Level 30, I used Joltik/Galvantula as a model for level lowerings. Those two were used as examples for a fair bit of my movepool, I find them quite similar to Syclar/Syclant in their unique typing. Sheer Cold was an interesting thought, but I figured it could be kept, Syclars stats don't quite make us think of the baby its Pokedex entries do. And Spheal can learn Sheer Cold. What would he do, nuzzle us until we got a little chilly?

    0 Fury Attack
    0 Leer
    0 Leech Life
    5 Ice Shard
    8 Focus Energy
    14 Slash
    18 Icy Wind
    27 X Scissor
    32 Hail
    36 Bug Buzz
    41 Avalanche
    48 Sheer Cold


    TM Moves

    For some of these, I was thinking of Syclar's appendages being used primarily for cutting, like X Scissor and Slash being available there not Fling. I also took off the status moves that aren't available to all Mons, Taunt and Swords Dance.
    TM03 Water Pulse
    TM06 Toxic
    TM07 Hail
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM13 Ice Beam
    TM14 Blizzard
    TM17 Protect
    TM21 Frustration
    TM27 Return
    TM31 Brick Break
    TM32 Double Team
    TM42 Facade
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM54 False Swipe
    TM58 Endure
    TM62 Silver Wind
    TM72 Avalanche
    TM78 Captivate
    TM81 X Scissor
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM87 Swagger
    TM89 U Turn
    TM90 Substitute
    HM01 Cut




    Tutor Moves


    Only removed Ice Punch. Thought about Counter and Double Edge, but usually when the evolution has either the pre-evo does as well. String Shot is a general bug thing, I couldn't see not having it. The rest of them are either egg moves, in Syclar's level up movepool, or generally available. Isn't Counter a Gen 3 only tutor?

    Bug Bite
    Counter
    Double Edge
    Earth Power
    Fury Cutter
    Icy Wind
    Mimic
    Snore
    String Shot
    Superpower


    Egg Moves


    All were kept the same.


    Earth Power
    Pin Missile
    Spikes
    Superpower
    Tail Glow

    Evolves at Level 30, so it gets Ice Punch upon evolution.

    How would I reformat these into those blue boxes, it feels messy as is
  14. Espeon65

    Espeon65

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    786
    Up above, when you write a post, there are a bunch of option, such as hide, image, etc. The one with the blue boxes is the "code" option. it is represented by a little tic tac toe, number sign, hashtag, or pound symbol thingy. Like this #. Hope this helps!
  15. kjt

    kjt

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    216
    Totally NOT final submission. I mean in terms of movepool yeah, but I'll definitely edit stuff (TM numbers, spoilers, etc) after school. Damned school >.<

    EDIT: Final Submission

    As you've probably guessed, this is my submission. I've based my movepool off Nincada/Ninjask (and I guess Shedinja). And the level up is probably the most different from what Scylant has. I just did it to be different. Anyways, read on . . .

    Level Up Moves
    Code:
    [B]Level[/B]	[B]Move[/B]
    0	Leer
    0	Leech Life
    5	Ice Shard
    8	Focus Energy
    14	Fury Attack
    18	Icy Wind
    27	Fury Cutter
    30	Ice Beam
    35	Hail
    42	Bug Buzz
    49	Blizzard
    
    Justification (open)
    So how does my movepool differ from Syclant's? Well it starts at (level) 14 with Fury Attack. I reckoned that Syclar wouldn't be the best with it's claws, being that they're teeny-tiny. Instead of using a powerful Slash, it would instead use a multitude of little stabs. 27 has Fury Cutter instead of X-Scissor for similar reasons, what with the teeny-tiny limbs. I don't imagine Syclar would learn those moves naturally (but not to worry, it gets X-Scissor as a TM). 30 has Ice Beam instead of Ice Punch (lack of limbs). 49 has Blizzard. I decided to put the focus on special moves (specifically these last two). Syclar doesn't seem to be especially powerful (appearance wise) so it can't use Avalanche. It requires less physical strength to make a blizzard, right? And I guess I should mention that it doens't get a move (aka Sheer Cold) at 60. That's just because of the Nincada basement being based off Nincada. It stops learning moves at 45, but both its evolutions learn moves after that.


    TMs/HMs
    Code:
    03	Water Pulse
    06	Toxic
    07	Hail
    10	Hidden Power
    12	Taunt
    13	Ice Beam
    14	Blizzard
    16	Protect
    18	Rain Dance
    21	Frustration
    27	Return
    31	Brick Break
    32	Double Team
    42	Façade
    43	Secret Power
    44	Rest
    45	Attract
    54	False Swipe
    58	Endure
    62	Silver Wind
    72	Avalanche
    75	Swords Dance
    78	Captivate
    81	X-Scissor
    82	Sleep Talk
    83	Natural Gift
    87	Swagger
    89	U-Turn
    90	Substitute
    01	Cut
    06	Rock Smash
    
    Reasoning (open)
    -Blablabla Hyper Beam/Giga Impact removed
    -Focus Punch, Earthquake, Focus Blast, Fling, Stone Edge, Rock Slide, Strength removed (IMO they're too powerful for Syclar).
    -I've included moves that I left out of the level up (X-Scissor + Avalanche) because I imagine a Syclar could learn them, but wouldn't in the wild. It also keeps U-Turn because it's a bug type move, and Syclar has quite a good speed stat (for a first stage).


    No reasons needed on egg moves.
    Egg Moves:
    Code:
    Earth Power
    Pin Missile
    Spikes
    Superpower
    Tail Glow
    
    Tutors
    Code:
    Bug Bite
    Counter
    Double Edge
    Fury Cutter
    Icy Wind
    Mimic
    Snore
    String Shot
    
    Explanation (open)
    Simply, I removed Earth Power and Superpower because they didn't fit (but it's no big loss as they're egg moves). Ice Punch is gone because Syclar doesn't have arms.


    Method of Evolution
    Code:
    [I]Trade Syclar[/I]
    After it being brought to my attention that evolving at the Ice Rock was specifically for a non-ice type, I decided on a different evolution method. But the reasoning for it is still the same . . .

    explanation (open)
    Anyways, I thought this suited my level-up movepool. It's based around the idea that Syclar doesn't get all the moves that Syclant gets. It's weaker, so it gets Fury Attack instead of Slash, Fury Cutter instead of X-Scissor etc. This method of evolution essentially allows for a level 1 Syclant that could naturally learn all the Syclant-y moves (Slash, X-Scissor, Ice Punch) as it grows. I thought it was important for it to evolve early as the big change in moves comes at 14 (Fury Attack or Slash). It would seem stupid for it to have moves like Slash but never learn them (naturally) because it evolved at 30-something. If that makes sense.

    That didn't really make sense to me either. Point is that it would allow variations of in-game Syclant (theoretically). You want it to learn Blizzad naturally (for whatever reason)? Then you don't evolve it until 49. You honestly couldn't care about any of these moves? Okay then, evolve it straight away and have a level 1 Syclar. So that's the it :)
  16. nyttyn

    nyttyn No regrets
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    971
    Final Submission

    Level Up
    Code:
    0 Leech Life
    0 Leer
    0 Fury Attack
    5 Ice Shard
    8 Focus Energy
    11 String Shot
    14 Icy Wind
    18 Hail
    21 Bug Bite
    24 Bug Buzz
    28 Silver Wind
    35 Fury Cutter
    37 U-Turn
    40 Blizzard
    44 Swords Dance
    Modeled after Swinub, a similar pokemon. I went for a more heavily physical based level up pool. Swords Dance is a pretty iconic move(For physical Syclant/Syclar at least. And since Tail Glow is an egg move...), so it serves as a capstone at level 44. Otherwise they're spread out fairly evenly in ascending power. Blizzard at 40 is probably going to turn some heads, but I feel that obtaining it as a level up move is plenty incentive to keep a Syclar as a Syclar for awhile (from a ingame 4th gen standpoint).

    TMs
    Code:
    TM03        Water Pulse 
    TM06        Toxic 
    TM06        Hail 
    TM10        Hidden Power
    TM13        Ice Beam
    TM14        Blizzard
    TM17        Protect
    TM21        Frustration
    TM27        Return
    TM31        Brick Break
    TM32        Double Team
    TM42        Facade
    TM43        Secret Power
    TM44        Rest
    TM45        Attract
    TM54        False Swipe
    TM58        Endure
    TM62        Silver Wind
    TM78        Captivate
    TM82        Sleep Talk
    TM83        Natural Gift
    TM87        Swagger
    TM89        U Turn
    TM90        Substitute
    HM01        Cut
    Egg Pool
    Code:
    Earth Power 
    Pin Missile 
    Spikes 
    Superpower 
    Tail Glow
    Egg pools gotta stay the same.

    Tutor
    Code:
    Bug Bite
    Counter
    Double Edge
    Earth Power
    Fury Cutter
    Icy Wind
    Mimic
    Snore
    String Shot
    Superpower
    Reasoning:
    Removed giga impact hyper beam etc because pre-evo (no pre-evo gets them). Removed all of the punches, because they make no sense (Syclar HAS NO ARMS OR FISTS TO PUNCH WITH). It doesn't really seem large enough to cause an Avalanche, so that's out too. Sheer Cold is out because, once again, Syclar doesn't really seem capable of pulling cold sufficent enough to kill things in one hit out of that tiny little butt. X-Scissor gets the cut (heh) because honestly, those tiny little appendeges just don't look big enough. Cut stays in, though, because it could still deal a nasty little cut with those razor sharp teeth. Strength gone because honestly, do you see this thing moving a boulder any time soon? Stone Edge scrapped because of size issues - there isn't really any conceivable way it could lift a hunk of stone.

    Evolution Method: Syclar levels up at level 33.
  17. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
    is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnus
    CAP Head Mod

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,815
    Posting my official 24 hour warning now. I'm liking what I see so far; make sure to get your stuff finalized by this time tomorrow.
  18. ShinyDreamer

    ShinyDreamer

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    53
    I've seen a couple of posts so far that think Syclar should evolve because of Icy Rock. Since I don't have time to build movepools and therefore can only comment on evolutions, I have to say I'm more in favor of
    evolves at level 30
    because I'm positive only non-Ice types can evolve at Icy Rock (therefore becoming Ice types).

    Someday they should consider editing...definitely Shellder, possibly Seel, so that they need to level up at Icy Rock to gain those Ice-types.
  19. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
    is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnus
    CAP Head Mod

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,815
    I've done a lot of looking over each of these movepools and I have thoughts for every one of you. Catch me on #cap if you'd like me to dish out some personal comments. If you don't have IRC, get on it; it's really helpful for when it comes to discussing CAP matters. You can read the connection guide if you need some guidance. If that's an issue, just PM me on the forums.

    Also, I'm posting to say that I really really dislike all of the Ice Rock evolution methods going around. Eevee to Glaceon is the only case for it in game, and Eevee is a very atypical and unique for a variety of reasons. It's an incredibly shaky ground for evolution method, in my eyes. Go ahead and keep it if you like. Just know that if your movepool has some other fault along with that evolution method, there is an extremely low chance of you getting slated. Thanks for your time.
  20. Nyktos

    Nyktos Custom Loser Title

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    565
    Nosepass -> Probopass and Magneton -> Magnezone also happen by levelling in a certain location, so it's not like it's only Eevee that has something like that
  21. Menshay

    Menshay

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    191
    Final submission

    Level Up:

    Code:
    0	Fury Attack
    0	Leer
    0	Leech Life
    5	Ice Shard
    8	Focus Energy
    14	Slash
    18	Icy Wind
    27	Bug Bite
    31	Hail
    36	Bug Buzz
    43	Avalanche
    50	Sheer Cold
    Evolves at level 30, learns Ice Punch after Evolution.

    Removed Ice Punch due to Syclar's lack of big enough limbs.
    Replaced X-Scissor with Bug Bite (already a tutor), Syclar just seems more apt to chewing stuff than to naturally learn fancy cut manoeuvres (I didn't remove X-Scissor from the TM list, compare with Nincada/Ninjask).
    Slash is left in due to the lack of a weaker available alternative, see also Joltik. Sheer Cold is left in, the only fully Ice-type line where the base form doesn't learn it as opposed to its evolved form is Snorunt.

    The levels before evolution are unchanged to reflect real Pokémon. The levels after evolution are chosen to give the process of learning new moves a more "natural" feel, since the level gaps in Syclant's movepool feel just too awkwardly irregular. After level 27, new moves are learned after gaps of 4, 5, 6 and 7 levels: after evolution, those moves get delayed by 4, 6, 6 and 10 levels, in a similar way to Galvantula (whose delays are +3, +6, +9, +12). I would have liked an overall more regular learning schedule, but I'm assuming Syclant's levels are set in stone and having different levels before evolution would be unprecedented (I think?).

    Tutor:

    Code:
    Bug Bite
    Counter
    Double-Edge
    Earth Power
    Fury Cutter
    Icy Wind
    Mimic
    Snore
    String Shot
    Superpower
    Removed Ice Punch (see above).
    Everything else is an egg move, something normally available to most Pokémon, generally available on all Pokémon in the same family (Counter) or just generally fitting.

    Egg:

    Code:
    Earth Power
    Pin Missile
    Spikes
    Superpower
    Tail Glow
    No changes, obviously.

    TM/HM:

    Code:
    TM03	Water Pulse
    TM06	Toxic
    TM07	Hail
    TM10	Hidden Power
    TM12	Taunt
    TM13	Ice Beam
    TM14	Blizzard
    TM17	Protect
    TM18	Rain Dance
    TM21	Frustration
    TM27	Return
    TM32	Double Team
    TM42	Facade
    TM43	Secret Power
    TM44	Rest
    TM45	Attract
    TM54	False Swipe
    TM56	Fling
    TM58	Endure
    TM62	Silver Wind
    TM72	Avalanche
    TM75	Swords Dance
    TM78	Captivate
    TM80	Rock Slide
    TM81	X-Scissor
    TM82	Sleep Talk
    TM83	Natural Gift
    TM87	Swagger
    TM90	Substitute
    
    HM01	Cut
    HM06	Rock Smash
    Removed:
    - Focus Punch: Syclar lacks big limbs
    - Hyper Beam, Giga Impact, Focus Blast: mostly reserved to final forms
    - Stone Edge: mostly exclusives to final forms and certain types.
    - Earthquake, Brick Break, Strength: it's just a small bug. Brick Break tends to be available even to base forms when their evolutions learn it, but there are rare exceptions like Kabuto. Also see below.
    - U-turn: not every bug gets it and it's mostly reserved for "swift-looking" stuff

    Kept:
    - Rock Slide: there are several examples of Pokémon with only Rock Slide evolving into Pokémon with Stone Edge (Cubone, Wooper, Pawniard...)
    - Rock Smash: might look as a weaker version of Brick Break, together with Rock Slide might represent a Pokémon who is still learning how to deal with mountains and rock but isn't strong enough to master them.
    - X-Scissor: See reasoning in level-up, it isn't learnt in the wild but must be taught explicitly as a "fancy cutting manoeuver". This might also work for Swords Dance which tends to be available to entire lines.

    The rest is mostly just the usual stuff.
  22. Birkal

    Birkal We have the technology.
    is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnus
    CAP Head Mod

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,815
    Lock. Let me get my slate together; this will take some time.

    Edit: Here's the slate. I spent multiple hours pouring over these, so y'all better be content. If you did not make the slate, don't despair! There are going to be lots of CAP pre-evo movepools to participate in within our future projects. If you want some advice, you can always send me a PM asking for it; I have notes on each movepool that I wouldn't mind sharing with you.

    Anyways, here it is. Congrats to these four!

    bugmaniacbob
    jas61292
    DHR-107
    Menshay


    I'll get up the next thread; sit tight.
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