Sylveon (QC 1/3) READY FOR QC

[Electrolyte]

approved by Mizuhime

Sylveon
QC: [Lolk, ---, ---]
GP: [---, ---]

Overview
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• However, Sylveon distinguishes itself from its evolutionary brethren because of its unique ability, Pixilate, which turns its Normal-type moves into STAB and slaps on a x1.3 power boost afterwards, giving Sylveon a solid boost in power that helps it hit hard. This pairs extremely well with its access to Hyper Voice, a powerful spread move that lets Sylveon deal lots of damage quickly.
  
• Its stats aren't too poor, either. 110 Special Attack makes Sylveon just as powerful as top threats such as Rotom-W and Latias. 95 / 65 / 130 defenses give Sylveon a lot of special bulk as well as usable physical bulk.
  
• Its typing is unique and useful as well, giving it resistance to Fighting and Dark as well as an immunity to Dragon. Pure Fairy typing also forces its opponents to hit it with unconventional attack types in order to hit it super effectively, making it even harder to take down.
  
• Unfortunately, its movepool is quite bare, forcing it to basically solely rely on its STAB attacks in order to deal damage. Also, its Speed is pitifully low, making it relatively easy to revenge kill. Stronger physical attackers can hit its weak physical Defense and muscle past it.

Choice Specs
########
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Hyper Voice
move 2: Moonblast / Hyper Beam
move 3: Hidden Power Ground
move 4: Psyshock
ability: Pixilate
item: Choice Specs
evs: 56 HP / 200 Def / 252 SpA
nature: Modest

Moves
========

• This set's main selling point is its sudden, explosive power.
• Hyper Voice is the main STAB; it's spread and hits very powerfully
  
• The second slot are STAB moves that bypass Wide Guard.
  
• Hyper Beam after Pixilate and STAB boosts reaches 292.5 base power, while Sylveon's high 110 special attack stat and specs boost help the attack blast through almost anything, resist or not. Unfortunately, it forces Sylveon to recharge the next turn, making it vulnerable to being revenge killed or set up upon.
  
• Moonblast can also be used if Hyper Beam recharge is annoying, but is less powerful. Still, it is a better alternative if Sylveon needs to use a hit-and-run playstyle that Hyper Beam does not allow.
• Hidden Power Ground to surprise Fire-, Steel-, and Poison-types; mainly Heatran and other 4x weaknesses. Most opponents are hit harder by Hyper Beam, however, so Hidden Power Ground is fairly situational, outside of OHKOing Heatran, which would otherwise wall you.
  
• Psyshock to hit Poison-types such as Amoonguss a bit harder. Sylveon doesn't really have much else to use that it is comfortable locking itself into.

Set Details
========

• Max SpA investment for maximum power.
• 252 HP EVs for mixed bulk, rest into Def
  
• Choice Specs give Sylveon massive power boost. All it really has to deal damage are its STABs anyway, so it won't suffer much from inability to switch moves
• Life Orb can also be used to give Sylveon a boost in power without forcing it into one specific move
• Pixie Plate can be used to fake a choice set while still boosting its power (and Sylveon doesn't really use anything but its STABs anyway)
• If the above two items are used, Protect is an option over coverage moves

Usage Tips
========

• Sylveon's sole focus with this set is to deal as much damage possible quickly, so care must be taken to send it in at the right time. It has a lot of special bulk, so it can be switched in against special attacks quite easily.
  
• Once in, simply use Hyper Voice to add offensive pressure and deal lots of damage.
  
• Be careful, since Sylveon's low Speed is sure to make it go last against most offensive Pokemon, so it will have to take a few hits
• The second slot STABs are mainly for Wide Guard users; most of the time, Hyper Voice is the better option because of its power and reliability.
  
• A hit-and-run playstyle is advised. If Sylveon is played like this, Moonblast should be used over Hyper Beam.
  
• Be careful of Hyper Beam's recharge. Sylveon will be vulnerable for a turn and requires partner support during it.
• Because of this, avoid relying on Hyper Beam to deal damage; it may be powerful but is also risky to use. It should only be used if a KO is extremely necessary.

Team Options
========

• This set is reliant on partner support, but can also easily tear through teams that lack solid Fairy-type counters.
• Partners to remove those counters are really important. Ground-types are awesome because they hit almost all Fairy-type resists hard. Heatran, Landorus-I, and Shaymin-S are cool because they provide Ground-type coverage that won't end up hitting Sylveon as well.
  
• Follow Me/Rage Powder is almost a necessity to cover for Sylveon's Hyper Beam recharge turn.
• Fake Out also helps. Landorus-T, Scrafty, Hitmontop, Mega Kangaskhan. All of those bar Mega K also provide Intimidate support.
  
• Speed control is extremely useful to help cover for Sylveon's low Speed.
• Trick Room pairs extremely well with this set. Use Quiet + 0 IVs if you choose to do so. Cresselia is great as it also provides Helping Hand to make Sylveon's attacks even more powerful.
  
• Helping Hand helps
• Dual Screens helps Sylveon take hits
• Taunt to prevent Wide Guard once Sylveon is locked into Hyper Voice
• Steel-type partners can sponge Poison and Steel attacks

Bulky Attacker
########
move 1: Hyper Voice
move 2: Hidden Power Ground
move 3: Moonblast / Helping Hand / Hyper Beam
move 4: Protect
ability: Pixilate
item: Sitrus Berry / Pixie Plate
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
nature: Modest

Moves
========

• This set aims to arm Sylveon with everything it needs to deal long lasting damage.
• Hyper Voice and Hidden Power Ground have almost perfect coverage with each other. Hyper Voice hits powerfully and steadily, dealing lots of damage if Sylveon isn't taken down quickly. Hidden Power Ground his Heatran and other Steel / Fire / Poison-types super effectively.

Calm Mind
########
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Hyper Voice
move 3: Hidden Power Ground
move 4: Protect
ability: Pixilate
item: Sitrus Berry
evs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpA
nature: Modest

Moves
========

• A Calm Mind abusing set lets Sylveon build up damage and bulk and sweep. It lacks coverage but has powerful spread STAB in Hyper Voice, so in order to muscle past its counters and deal more damage, it needs to set up.
  
• Calm Mind boosts Sylveon's SpDef and SpA, making it even bulkier and also even more destructive at the same time.
  
• Hyper Voice is Sylveon's main attack on this set. Pixilate turns Hyper Voice into a Fairy-type attack and then boosts it by x1.3, giving it an overall base power of 175.5 after STAB. It is also a spread move, giving Sylveon the ability to inflict major damage to both opponents.
  
• Substitute lets Sylveon protect itself from status. Sylveon is quite bulky, so its Substitutes will last, especially after a few Calm Minds. Unfortunately, it is quite slow, so there is little chance it will be able to dodge status moves on the turn it Substitutes.
  
• Hidden Power Ground can also be used to give Sylveon near perfect coverage against almost every common Pokemon in Doubles.
  
• Protect is on the last slot to give Sylveon the ability to scout for potentially dangerous attacks and protect itself from them.

Set Details
========

• Max HP gives Sylveon as much rounded bulk as possible.
• 200 Def EVs let Slyveon always survive a +1 4 Atk Genesect's Iron Head. It also lets Sylveon survive 252+ Atk Mega Kangaskhan's Return + Sucker Punch combination.
• The rest of the EVs are put into SpA for as much power as possible. Modest is used to give Sylveon adequate amounts of preliminary power to help it hit hard before it sets up.
• Leftovers provide Sylveon with steady healing. This set typically stays in for a while as it sets up, so the gradual recovery eventually helps out a lot and lets Sylveon create more Substitutes.
• Psyshock can also be used instead of Protect to hit Poison-types harder than HP Ground.

Usage Tips
========

• This set performs best against weaker walls or Pokemon that cannot hit it neutrally.
• Try to switch in without taking too much damage and try to set up a Calm Mind freely. Utilize Sylveon's partner to help it nab opportunities to set up.
• If it gets the chance, also try to set up Substitute. This helps keep Sylveon safe from status, and the Calm Mind boosts will help the Substitutes last.
  
• Once set up, Sylveon can unleash its powerful Hyper Voice, and use HP Ground when necessary.
  
• At times, Sylveon may need to attack immediately, so if that is the case, it can still hit quite powerfully.

Team Options
========

• Trick Room with 0 Spe IVs and Quiet nature. Cresselia is a great Trick Room setter, as it can remove Poison-types while Sylveon guards against Dark-types. It can also aid with Helping Hand.
  
• Taunters to prevent Wide Guard and opposing Taunt. Thundurus-I can help and also spreads priority Thunder Wave speed control support.
  
• Ground-types to remove Fire-, Steel-, and Poison-types. Garchomp is great as Sylveon keeps opposing Dragon-types away. Landorus-T is also awesome as its Intimidate helps weaken physical attackers so they can't break Sylveon's Substitutes.
• Intimidate- Hitmontop / Scrafty Fake Out can also buy opportunities for Sylveon to set up
• Follow Me/Rage Powder users help as well. Amoonguss can Spore things, but compounds Fire-type weakness

Other Options
########

• Sylveon has few other offensive options, but it does have an extensive support movepool.
• ChestoRest
  
• Draining Kiss
  
• Heal Bell / Helping Hand / Dual Screens / weather support are all options if needed
• Can also Baton Pass CM boosts+Sub but BP sucks in Doubles
• Choice Scarf

Checks & Counters
########
**Type Advantage**: Fire-, Poison-, and Steel-types all wall CM Sylveon easily as it lacks coverage. Steel-types such as Scizor, Aegislash, and Bisharp can easily OHKO it before it boosts. Charizard and Talonflame get a special mention as they cannot be hit super effectively due to their immunity to HP Ground. Charizard has the bulk to sponge two Hyper Voices from the Specs set, and avoid the OHKO from Hyper Beam. Unfortunately, Talonflame is easily 2HKOd by Hyper Voice and OHKOd by Hyper Beam, so is a shaky check. Heatran can sponge anything but HP Ground.

**Faster Pokemon**: Sylveon is outsped by most offensive Pokemon, giving them plenty of time to hit it. Physical attackers can aim at its weaker side and gradually wear it down. Physical threats shine in this category, such as Mega K, CM Talonflame, and Mega Pinsir, all of which can hit its weaker defense hard.

**Utility**: For the CM and Specs set, Wide Guard blocks Hyper Voice, one of Sylveon's main STAB moves. Aegislash is a great wall since it doesn't care about anything but HP Ground and can KO with Flash Cannon. Perish Song / Taunt / Encore can also prevent Sylveon's CM set from setting up.

 

[Electrolyte]

The skeleton is written and ready for QC!
Nollan Lolkomori Audiosurfer Pocket Mizuhime Laga Pwnemon

 

[Lolk]

Overview:

• Remove fluffy first and last bullet point.
• Mention Pixilate also lets Sylveon use a really strong, STAB Hyper Voice which is very effective in the doubles metagame.
• Mention its physical bulk is very exploitable

Switch the sets around. Choice Specs is much easier to use and it is arguably much more effective.

Choice Specs Set:

• Hyper Voice is the first move.
• Moonblast / Hyper Beam in the second slot.

Moves:

• Remove the "insert calc here" bullet.
• You seemed to emphasize more that Hyper Beam forces Slyveon to do nothing the next turn lol. The lesser power of Moonblast (while still damn good) is way more worth it than doing nothing and getting revenge killed the next turn.
• Mention the second STABs in slot 2 are for bypassing Wide Guard users.
• Hidden Power Ground is really only for Heatran and other 4X weaknesses. Resists still are hurt a heck of a lot by Hyper Beam and it is generally safer to spam. Plus if one Fairy-resist is out, usually the other partner will still be hit by Hyper Voice hard enough to choose that move still.

Set Details:

• Mention that a Life Orb is an option for an all out attacker set and Fairy Plates are cool for boosting its STABs while faking Choice Specs.
• You don't need the Def EV mention; it's only 4 evs.

Usage Tips:

• Don't say HyperBeam spam is hit and run. It is hit and most likely die the next turn. Mention it only should be an option if you absolutely need an OHKO.
• Mention that Sylveon should use its special bulk to switch in.
• Primarily spam Hyper Voice, using the second slot to bypass Wide Guard/snipe a threat and the other coverage against specific threats.

Team Options:

• I wouldn't say it is extremely reliant on partner support. Specs Sylveon can easily break through any team, especially ones with sloppy Fairy-type resists.
• Partners to KO the Fire-, Steel-, and Poison-type Pokemon that wall its STAB such as Landorus-T, Excadrill, and Garchomp, so it can easily spam Hyper Voice.
• Add Intimidate partners here also.
• Steel-type partners love switching in on Sylveon's Poison- and Steel-type weakness.

Calm Mind Set

• Just call it Calm Mind Sweeper
• move Calm Mind to slot one because it is the move the set is named after.
• Slash HP Ground behind Substitute as an option for coverage > utility.

Moves:

• Move Psyshock to Set Details
• Also take out the support moves mention. Sylveon's focus is sweeping, not supporting the team.
• I wouldn't say replacing Protect is an option for coverage. It is much more reliable to replace the Substitute slot.
• Say Sylveon is slow, so it won't dodge many status effects 1v1 before setting up Substitute.

Usage Tips:

• Setting up Calm Mind first is way more important than setting up Substitute first.

Team Options:

• List specific Taunt/Trick Room partners that synergize well with Sylveon. Do this on the other set also.
• Steel-type partners love switching in on Sylveon's Poison- and Steel-type weakness.

Other Options:

• If stored power is illegal with Calm Mind don't put it lol.

Checks & Counters:

• I highly doubt that Talonflame can wall specs Sylveon's Hyper Voice unless it is some gimmicky bulky roost set so take out that mention.
• Heatran demolishes CM Sylveon without HP Ground and can switch into Specs Sylveon locked into any move but HP Ground.
• Many Physical threats can easily outspeed and do major damage to Sylveon, including Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Pinsir, and CB Talonflame.
• STEEL-TYPES LIKE BISHARP, MEGA LUCARIO, AND FERROTHORN EASILY ONE-SHOT IT.
• Perish Song and Encore can stop CM Sylveon that have accumulated many boosts.
• Taunt stops CM Sylveon from setting up.

 

[Electrolyte]

Lolk's changes were implemented.

Combined a bunch of stuff into one last category for Utility in Checks & Counters.

Ready for more!

 

[Lolk]

QC 1/3

 

[Darkmalice]

Specs set

Hidden Power Ground to surprise Fire-, Steel-, and Poison-types; mainly Heatran and other 4x weaknesses. Most opponents are hit harder by Hyper Beam, however, so Hidden Power Ground is fairly situational.

It's worth adding at the end of the sentence "outside of OHKOing Heatran, who otherwise walls you."

Psyshock to hit Poison-types a bit harder. Sylveon doesn't really have much else to use that it is comfortable locking itself into.

You should give an example of a Poison-type. I recommend Amoonguss because it's common and doesn't usually carry Sludge Bomb to hit Syvleon super-effectively.

I would move Life Orb and Pixie Plate from AC to OO. Not because they're too bad, but because they are worth considering on the CM set too when using HP Ground (particularly Pixie Plate). I wouldn't just relegate LO and Pixie Plate to a 4 attack set. If you disagree, then also mention those items can be paired with Protect instead of Psyshock.

CM set

Hyper Voice is Sylveon's main and only attack on this set.

Remove the only attack part; you have HP ground slashed.

Ground-types to remove Fire-, Steel-, and Poison-types. Garchomp is great as Sylveon keeps opposing Dragon-types away. Landorus-T is also awesome as its Intimidate helps weaken physical attackers so they can't break Sylveon's Substitutes.

You should also mention that the teammates mentioned in the Specs set are also helpful for their Ground-type coverage, however, as this Sylveon carries Protect, it now works well alongside STAB EQ users, then tie this in to your mention of Garchomp and Landorus-T.

Similarly, Fake Out + Rage Powder/Follow Me users can work well too for helping Sylveon to set up.

OO: Add HP Rock - it turns the tide against Mega Zard Y and Talonflame.

Checks and counters
-you've mentioned Aegislash as OHKOing Syvleon before it boosts. Aegislash usually runs min speed and will be attacking after Syvleon nets a boost. It also does not OHKO with Flash Cannon even without a boost - it needs to be a physical set with Iron Head to OHKO, but that's never used in high level play. Add a separate mention for bulky Steel-types that can tank a hit and then hit Syvleon super-effectively, like Aegislash, Ferrothorn, and Escavalier.
-also mention Mega Venusaur, Venusaur and Mega Gengar who can outspeed it and hit it super-effective with STAB Sludge Bomb (but cannot OHKO). However, add a note that they do fear Psyshock from the Specs set - guaranteed OHKO on Mega Gengar. Venusaur it depends on its EV spread. The 180 HP one in Miz's C&C analysis has only a 12.5% chance but that becomes 75% with Life Orb recoil. Mega Venusaur will always survive. Also of note, Mega Gengar is fortunate enough to never be 2HKOed by Specs Hyper Voice or HP Ground (but may be OHKOed by Hyper Beam). All of them have a great match-up against the CM set.
-you mentioned CM Talonflame. I am not sure what you are referring to, CB Talonflame?

 

[Audiosurfer]

Electrolyte, mind gettin a few replays or so of the CM set in action? I'm pretty skeptical on its viability tbh. If anything I'd like to see a Bulky Attacker set in its place for those who don't wanna use Specs. set here.

move 1: Hyper Voice
move 2: Hidden Power Ground
move 3: Moonblast / Helping Hand / Hyper Beam
move 4: Protect
ability: Pixilate
item: Sitrus Berry / Pixie Plate / whatever
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
nature: Modest

also add Shadow Ball as a slash with Psyshock on the Specs set. It gets a 2HKO on Aegislash in shileld form who otherwise bones Sylveon (HP Ground is a guaranteed 3HKO) so it's definitely worth mentioning. also when mentioning draining kiss in OO, just say draining kiss, no need to add the part about a CM set. looks cool otherwise.

QC 2/3 <-- as lolk said i should probs hold off a bit

 

[Lolk]

I am fine with a new set, but you probably shouldn't stamp until you at least see what he writes about it/decide on the items.

edit: best 1K imo

 

[Electrolyte]

I toyed around with SubCM Sylveon against Totemo, and I can't say that I'm really impressed. It's slow and doesn't have the bulk / resistances to be able to consistently set up Calm Mind, much less Substitute, unless paired with like Follow Me support or something. It rarely boosts past +1, so it rarely gets more powerful than the Specs set, and it only has one move to spam anyway so you might as well just use the Specs set, which lasts longer and isn't so cumbersome to use.

It probably has more of a niche in Trick Room (I used it in nonweather standard) or against Defensive teams, so I will do some more testing in those environments, but so far it hasn't turned out to be as great as I remembered it on the ladder :[

 

[Audiosurfer]

I toyed around with SubCM Sylveon against Totemo, and I can't say that I'm really impressed. It's slow and doesn't have the bulk / resistances to be able to consistently set up Calm Mind, much less Substitute, unless paired with like Follow Me support or something. It rarely boosts past +1, so it rarely gets more powerful than the Specs set, and it only has one move to spam anyway so you might as well just use the Specs set, which lasts longer and isn't so cumbersome to use.

It probably has more of a niche in Trick Room (I used it in nonweather standard) or against Defensive teams, so I will do some more testing in those environments, but so far it hasn't turned out to be as great as I remembered it on the ladder :[

ok then yeah unless you face some quality players and your experience changes then switch the cm set with the one i listed above.

 

[Darkmalice]

There was the Nollan vs Biosci SPL match where CM Sylveon put in a lot of work. I agree that setting up more than 1 boost can be difficult though, mainly due to its physical bulk, especially Sub too. I feel that CM still deserves a set mention, or at least a slash in the third slot of Audio's set. Sylveon usually only needs to use Hyper Voice as offence, so the loss of its other offence moves doesn't matter that much - CM stands out as one of the better options to use for that slot.

[EDIT] Regarding the CM EV spread, 252 HP / 196 Def on Sylveon enables it to surivve +1 Atk Genesect's Iron Head; the extra 4 Def doesn't make a difference here.

Assuming this spread is kept, I rather have 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpA. Surviving Mega Kang's Return + Sucker Punch isn't a good reason

First off, Mega Kang naturally outspeeds Sylveon, so there would be few scenarios worth using Sucker Punch on Sylveon.

2nd the only way to have a guaranteed survival against Mega Kang's Return + Sucker Punch is after two turns of Leftovers recovery, same as with a 196 Def. It depends on the damage rolls whether or not you survive after 10 turns. EDIT: 1 turn, not 10 lol

200 Def
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Sylveon: 292-343 (74.1 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(292, 294, 298, 301, 306, 307, 312, 315, 319, 321, 325, 328, 333, 334, 339, 343)

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Sylveon: 76-90 (19.2 - 22.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

With 196 Def
52+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 196 Def Sylveon: 292-346 (74.1 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(292, 297, 298, 303, 307, 310, 315, 316, 321, 324, 328, 330, 334, 337, 342, 346)

Sucker Punch deals the same damage. Still guaranteed survival after 2 turns.

 

[Audiosurfer]

Ok Electrolyte, after readin Darkmalice's post, I'm more convinced on the viability of CM Sylveon. I would agree that it should just be slashed on my set, but given the different spread and the fact that it plays differently, a different set is likely appropriate. Other QC members can decide whether that set or my set should be 2nd. Also, I'd say remove Substitute as a slash on CM. I don't think you'll be able to set up both CM and Substitute unless your opponent is incompetent. Use Darkmalice's spread. Also add Chestorest to OO (would say as a slash on CM set but idk how well it would work so I'll say OO).

 

[Pocket]

Max HP is not the optimal defensive investment for a Pokemon with high base HP and low base Def. According to the Defensive EV Applet, 100 HP / 156 Def gives Sylveon the best overall bulk.

I want to suggest 56 HP / 200 Def, though. This allows Sylveon to survive Kangaskhan's Return. This spread even gives Sylveon ~68% chance to survive an unboosted Iron Head from Bisharp. Incidentally, Timid Mega Gengar's Sludge Bomb just misses an OHKO even with this spread. If you think that's too circumstantial, go with the spread that the Defensive EV applet produced above.

52+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Sylveon: 378-445 (95.9 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Sylveon: 396-468 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 288-342 (73 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

vs

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 56 HP / 200 Def Sylveon: 292-343 (84.6 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. 56 HP / 200 Def Sylveon: 306-362 (88.6 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Mega Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 288-342 (83.4 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

tl;dr 56 HP / 200 Def shows notable improvement in tanking physical hits while still remaining specially bulky enough to tank a fuckin super-effective STAB Sludge Bomb coming off of 170 base SpA x_x

 

[Mizuhime]

Why is hyper beam a main slash..... Wtf , out moon blast as the main slash. Also slash heal bell behind psyshock, 9/10 you'll just end up spamming hyper voice but later in the game you may find that heal bell can come in clutch

 

[Mizuhime]

Electrolyte ?

 

[Electrolyte]

Ok I am unable to make major edits right now but I'll just list some of the things I will be getting to in the very near future:

- Pocket's spread on Specs
- ASurf's new set (I'm planning on putting CM as a slash for now)
- Heal Bell
- Other touchups etc

Hide

As for Mizuhime's suggestion:

Hyper Beam > Moonblast imo.

Hyper Beam accomplishes more in less turns. For one, after Specs boost Hyper Beam is more than 10 BP more powerful than two Moonblasts. Not only that, but the recharge turn is actually not that bad, considering the fact that the damage is more than made up. Against the same opponent, you're taking the same amount of damage staying in with Hyper Beam for two turns as you are Moonblasting two turns. The only difference is that you can't switch if necessary after the first turn, but that should not be a common problem if played right. Also, in situations where you only get one turn to attack, Hyper Beam is obviously far more superior. This is quite a common incidence especially late game, and because of Sylveon's low Speed.

EDIT: Changed ;_;

 

[Lolk]

Gimme calcs that show Specs Hyper Beam is worth it, cause I still think it is bad >.>

 

[Electrolyte]

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 360-424 (129.4 - 152.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 175-207 (62.9 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 463-546 (131.9 - 155.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 226-267 (64.3 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO



252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 561-660 (146.8 - 172.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 273-322 (71.4 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Hyper Beam is better against any and all opponents that take 100%-175% from it- the window range of opponents that can be OHKOed by Hyper Beam but not by Moonblast. This window range is large; though mainly unnoticeable because Sylveon is so powerful that it OHKOs most Pokemon with both moves anyway. Most Pokemon that fall into this range are those that are naturally specially bulky, those that have moderate bulk investment, or those that carry an Assault Vest and are not weak to Fairy-type attacks.

 

[Lolk]

I was hoping for calcs against opponents that Sylveon actually hits. Mega Kanga OHKOs Sylveon, and it would never switch in anyway. Landorus-T almost always U-turn out, and it would never switch in either. Opponents almost always handle Sylveon by switching in resists such as Steels and Poisons, and using Hyper Beam just traps it and kills a ton of momentum. If Hyper Beam was able to KO those certain checks, than I would support it to be on the set.

 

[Nollan]

> including my set and not using my EVs. Well uh, anyway:

Overview

• Should get a QC approval solely for this imo :]

Choice Specs

• Drop Moonblast in favor of Shadow Ball, as it hits Aegislash most notably along with being Sylveon's best option for catching Scizor on the switch and so on. Could also slash Shadow Ball over Psyshock tho that's up to you
• Putting 12 EVs from SpA into Spe is a good idea as it beats 0 Spe Adamant Tyranitar without losing much power

Set Details

• It looks like you need to update the EV spread details here :]
• Drop LO and Pixie Plate, as you have Protect sets so there is little need to mention them here

Usage Tips

• Hyper Beam should almost always be an endgame move; used as something to close things out if you wind up in a 1 vs 1 against Lando-T, Kangaskhan, or whatever else

Bulky Attacker

• I see no reason not to merge this with the Calm Mind set as they both function similarly, using Protect to last longer than Specs Sylveon would (it also saves good 'ol Elyte time ;])

Calm Mind

• Merging with Bulky Attacker should wind up with this:

Bulky Attacker (heck you could even call it "Protect" lol)
########
move 1: Calm Mind / Substitute? / Helping Hand
move 2: Hyper Voice
move 3: Hidden Power Ground
move 4: Protect
ability: Pixilate
item: Leftovers / Pixie Plate
evs: 212 HP / 116 Def / 168 SpA / 12 Spe (essentially a revised version of my CM Sylveon spread used in SPL trust me it works)
nature: Modest

• Hyper Beam w/o Specs isn't strong enough and is honestly just bad so I see no reason to have it here
• Moonblast isn't that notable either. Bypassing Wide Guard is nice but I don't see it being common enough for Moonblast to merit a slash on the set (also note Moonblast isn't that much stronger than Hyper Voice to begin with)
• Substitute seems logical as an option, as my spread does hit a Lefties number and a Sylveon behind a Sub can be very hard to deal with in theory; this hasn't been tested at all really tho so I'm not sure as to whether it should be here
• Spread endures Adamant Kangaskhan Return, there is little Sylveon could do to Genesect in return even if it lives an Iron Head and bypasses the flinch, not to mention most Genesect these days are running more Attack investment. The power is imo more essential, allowing Sylveon to not rely on Calm Mind to hit for solid damage. Spe EVs for TTar, rest in SpA.
• If used w/ TR 180 SpA and 0 Spe IV w/ Quiet is the go-to spread
• Maybe give Sitrus Berry a mention as its a solid item if using Helping Hand; in my experience I've always preferred the Leftovers on CM Sylveon, though (and I've used CM Sylveon a lot for the record)

Other Options

• Remove everything currently in this section barring Scarf and Dual Screens imo, as weather is highly situational, ChestoRest in doubles on something with subpar defense doesn't sound very solid, Baton Pass and Heal Bell sound very inconsistent and gimmicky, and Draining Kiss is very very weak
• Maybe add HP Fire as an option to catch things like Scizor on the switch in?
• If you opt not to include Sub in the above set put it here
• Safeguard has some viability, especially if used on a TR team; Misty Terrain might be mentionable as it does the same thing except not including Levitate/Flying-types while weakening Dragon moves
• Moonblast :]

Good job overall, I'd say :]

 

[Martin]

Sylveon gets Detect. Wouldn't that be overall better than Protect as it isn't as easy to Imprison as Protect is? Especially seeing how Sylveon is a good choice for Trick Room teams, which will commonly be targeted by things like Imprison+Trick Room Chandelure?

 

[Lolk]

bending the rules and 2/3 write this up. Let's just get this onsite asap

also take off hyper beam atm cause pretty much everyone else agrees it is bad. we can argue about putting it back in the set later after it's onsite