1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Syndicate- an OU RMT by Electrolyte

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Electrolyte, Mar 1, 2013.

  1. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte The Great Stone Dragon
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,946
    <SYNDICATE- an OU RMT by Electrolyte>

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    ^listen to this as you read my RMT​


    >Hey everybody! It's been a while. For those of you who don't know me, I'm a frequent team rater, as well as a more recent Moderator of Smogon's PS!, where you'll commonly find me hanging out. In the past month or so, I've been testing a few new and underused pokemon- such as Cobalion in my last RMT, Songs About Jane. This time, I'm trying out something new- Ditto. I don't exactly remember why I chose to build a team around Ditto- especially since its effectiveness dropped when Deo-D was banned- but I did, and I have with me the result of about a month of testing and tweaking, as well as the advice of a bunch of cool people over at #ratemyteam (which you all should totally check out) (just be sure not to talk to terribad user Jirachi ;P) I found that although Ditto had its flaws, much of them could be overcome, and its ability to main the tier's common HO (though less common now) style team made it a very useful and valuable pokemon. Nevertheless, I never really liked Ditto as much as I liked Cobalion, but it still hasn't failed me, and I'm glad I've come this far. Hopefully, you guys can help me patch up this team that I've poured a lot of time into. Here's a glance:

    ~[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]~​

    > As you can probably see, this is a rather offensive team- with Rocky Helmet Garchomp as my lead and SR setter. Nasty Plot Thundurus-T is the team's wallbreaker, and it helps maim stall / defensive teams that prevent Ditto from functioning correctly. LO Latias is my Rain / Sun counter, as well as my special 'sponge'- it tanks attacks and recovers off the damage. SD Lucario and Scarfed Terrakion are my cleaners and revenge killers, as they use speed / priority along with strong fighting type moves to crush weakened opposing teams. Lucario and Latias also have a great defensive synergy, as shown in my previous RMT (with Cobalion instead of Lucario) Ditto is the centerpiece of the team, and although it doesn't always function as well as I want it to be it is worth its slot in most situations. It acts as a 'revenge' killer, as well as a 'sweeper', or a 'pivot', depending on the opponent's team.

    > As for the aesthetics, I chose the song Syndicate by the Fray represent the team because the song talks about never giving up, no matter what happens- as there's always a bit of hope that you can hold on to. I felt as if this really matched the way the team works because even if I'm facing a +6 Mence and it seems like a losing battle, I still have hope- in the form of Ditto.

    TEAMBUILDING (open)

    [​IMG]
    I started off with Ditto. As I said, I don't even remember why I chose Ditto to build a team around. However, I know I liked it for its flexibility and its unpredictability- and its ability to fulfill multiple roles and help my team adapt to defeat its opponent. Plus, it's cool as fuck.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    This was the earliest version of the team. I saw one of user: Novaray's teams and noticed how solid Loom / Mamo were as an offensive core. I also really wanted to try out Thundurus-T, as, being a rater, I noticed how common it was for a team to just be ripped up by its powerful coverage. Then, I slapped in Forretress for hazard control, and Latias to handle weather as well as hit fast and specially.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    At the advice of my buds from #ratemyteam, I replaced Forretress for Focus Sash Taunt Terrakion, to help handle my inability to prevent opposing stall / offensive setup, and because Forretress wasn't doing much for my team. The suggestion worked well.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    This part was the part where I was stuck in a rut. I shifted and tested many different pokemon, since the team was totally crushed by Sand and defensive teams. My pokemon were slow, and they also didn't have much bulk- so I often had to sacrifice pokemon in order to attempt a revenge kill. The tier's most common walls were hard to wall and take down, and I lacked steel types to prevent Scarfed Dragons from ripping me apart. Thinking that Breloom was the problem, I tried all sorts of things- Celebi, Jirachi, Keldeo, and even Tyranitar. None worked very well- and I was very frustrated. Then, I saw Smurf's RMT, where he used Bulky Rocky Helmet Garchomp. It seemed like a really cool idea, and I really wanted to try it, so, instead of replacing Loom, I replaced Mamo, who didn't seem to be doing much that Garchomp couldn't do. Then, I changed a whole bunch of sets. Breloom became SashLeadLoom, and Terrakion became Scarfed to help me revenge kill.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    The team was nearly complete, but I did have a few problems. Ice types were absolute whores; I had 4 pokemon weak to Ice and only one choiced resist. Sun teams were problematic as well- Venasaur was hard to take down because Ditto's HP Ice couldn't KO, and Latias could be put to sleep. Also, setup pokemon that Ditto couldn't handle were really annoying- CM users, QD users, and Sub users were all hard to tackle. I put Lucario in as a steel type to help me tank rock, bug, and dragon type moves, as well as smash steels with Close Combat, and revenge kill things with ESpeed.

    That is the team as it is today.


    <Overview>


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Garchomp

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    How to Save a Life (Garchomp) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Swords Dance
    - Stealth Rock


    >>Garchomp's role in the team is the bulky offensive physical pivot. Although it's not a dedicated lead, I lead with it more often than not, because it can get me my rocks up quick and isn't afraid of opposing VoltTurn leads (which often take more damage than I) Garchomp's Rough Skin deals ~15% damage to contact attackers- damaging tanks and priority revenge killers such as Breloom or Scizor, and giving them the middle finger for being pussies and using cheap ass priority moves boosted by cheap ass Technician. Garchomp is also a great lead because it can punch holes early game with a quick SD and an EQ or Outrage. It also beats Sun / Sand leads, which is really useful as I can get off a free SR or SD and then proceed to sweep.

    Usually, because of Garchomp's ability to handle Steel types that wall Latias, after it's done setting SR and denting things I usually pull it back so I can use it to counter walls later in the match, when Latias needs her walls cleared. However, in some cases I also have the option of using Garchomp as a 'physical revenge killer', where it'd be too low in HP to be of any use so I'd switch it in against a weakened sweeper and let Chomp's Rough Skin finish the opponent off. Garchomp's decent bulk and typing also makes it a good sponge, helping me handle Scarf Terrakion etc. Its Ground / Dragon typing is absolutely necessary as it prevents my opponent from setting up and sweeping before I'm ready to counterattack- erasing Volcarona and DDancers from the picture so the other teammembers don't have to switch around as much and I can make some more daring plays. The Sash lets me beat other leads as well as kill nearly anything that gets out of control. It's a good panic button.

    Max Speed lets me speed tie with opposing Garchomps and possibly kill them before they do the same in return. Then, full investment in Atk lets Chomp hit as hard as possible, and the rest is put in HP for bulk. I saw in Smurf's RMT that he used a different spread of 92 HP / 164 Atk / 252 Spd Jolly for some added bulk, but I didn't really see any reason for me to run bulk over attack so I just used a simpler spread. <<

    Offensive Synergy:
    [​IMG]- this little fucker can be destroyed by Thundy-T, or Latias if Rain isn't up.
    [​IMG]- Lucario can set up pretty easily on this thing and then just bash it to death. Thundy resists Gyro Ball and can set up as well.
    [​IMG] types- Lucario and Terrakion are my answers to these guys. Pokemon like Kyu-B can be outsped and killed, so only Ice Beam / Shard from faster pokemon threaten me. Luc and Terrak can be used to handle them.

    Currently testing:
    ~Rocky Helmet --> Focus Sash
    ~Swords Dance --> Fire Blast


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Lucario

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Look After You (Lucario) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 184 Spd / 252 Atk / 72 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch


    >>Lucario is my late game cleaner, revenger, and Steel type counter, and it's awesome at doing what it does. I've heard from countless people that it was a great pokemon for Hyper Offensive teams like mine, so I tried it over Breloom and was very happy with the outcome. Lucario patches up the weaknesses of the team quite nicely, and I can use it as a panic button in order to kill faster threats. Although Lucario's Base Attack stat isn't all that high, I've never been put down by its 'weak attacks', since it kills whenever and whatever I need it to kill quickly and effectively. It's not all that fast, either, but with Extreme Speed it quickly becomes a deadly, unstoppable sweeper, especially late game. Oh, the faces of the opposing Breloom when they scoff at Luc's lower atk stat and then are Oh-SHIT-KO'd by ESpeed.

    Its typing is godly as well- and it has awesome synergy with Latias. Steel / Fighting is great because it lets Lucario come in on numerous powerful attacks in the tier with its x4 Bug and Dark resistance, two of the five weaknesses of Latias (the other three which are x2 resisted.) Lucario doesn't have the bulk to take multiple hits like Cobalion could, but it has enough bulk to come in a few times and pull off a Swords Dance and begin to pummel things. Close Combat is an extremely powerful attack, letting Lucario muscle past even neutral walls like Jirachi. Fighting / Dark is great coverage, and lets Lucario defeat walls that commonly use type advantage to defend against fighting types. Bullet Punch lets me revenge kill pokemon like Terrakion / Gengar, and be able to hit Ice types like Kyu-B or Mamoswine for a quick OHKO.

    I use an Adamant nature because outspeeding Dragonite / Heatran / Mamoswine / Loom / Landorus-T are not important- and because Deo-D has recently been banned. Loom and Mamo can be dealt with Extreme Speed, Dragonite is beaten by Ditto, and max speed Heatrans can be handled by Garchomp easily. Max Atk gives Lucario's ESpeed an extra oomph, letting me cleave off more from sweepers. 184 Spe Evs gives Lucario enough speed to speed creep Adamant Gyarados- which sets at 81 base Speed (this means Adamant Mamoswine is also outsped.) The rest is put into HP for longetivity. It lets Luc hit 299 HP, which is a good HP in terms of LO recoil I hope?<<

    Offensive Synergy:
    [​IMG]- See above.
    [​IMG] types- Ditto can usually come in on Gengar's focus blast and kill with Shadow Ball. Ghost types that don't outspeed are promptly OHKO'd by Crunch. Psychic types fall under the same line, except they can be beaten by Terrak's X-Scissor.
    [​IMG] types- grounds types that are slower can be KO'd by CC, and those that are faster can be KO'd by ESpeed if Luc grabs enough boosts. Lando-T can be handled by THundy-T and Latias.

    Currently testing:
    ~Crunch --> Bullet Punch

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Latias

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    She Is (Latias) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 112 HP / 144 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Recover
    - Psyshock
    - Hidden Power [Fire]


    >> I use Latias in pretty much every single one of my teams, because of her outstanding ability to fulfill one role- the role of offensive, speedy special tank. She gives the team speed, bulk, and special power- what else could I ask for? Her ability to handle Sun and Rain is also awesome- as she can wall pokemon like Keldeo or Rotom-W that the rest of the team wouldn't like handling. If needed, she can also tank a WoW, though it does decrease her usability by a lot when in conjunction with LO and maybe Sand damage. Either way, Latias's typing and stats are really just perfect, hence her spot on the team.

    Latias is my offensive check to many offensive opponents, so she needs a set that can cover as many threats as possible. I gave her Draco Meteor so she can hit extremely hard despite not having the best SpA. Draco easily destroys any Dragon type in the tier, and if I play smartly I can use Latias to keep opposing Dragons at bay so my slower sweepers (Thundy and Luc) can wreak havoc. Psyshock is there to defeat Poison and Fighting types- the former which can be quite annoying in the form of Tentacruel, and the latter painful as Keldeo-R. Psyshock also hits Conkeldurr for a lot of damage, but it doesn't exactly KO, which is :(. Hidden Power Fire is a big middle finger to all those pesky Steel types out there, especially Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Scizor, and offensive Jirachi. HP Fire also hits Grass types (mainly Celebi) for ok damage, but it doesn't do enough to subdue those with Recovery. Finally, Latias's own Recover lets her overcome LO / hazard / weather damage, and continue to blast the opponent with her powerful attacks.

    Latias's synergy with the other members of the team is awesome- and another reason why she's such an important member of the team. She has perfect synergy with Lucario and Terrakion, whose fighting moves can remove special walls that Latias can't get past. Her steel breaking abilities really helps Terrakion defeat Forretress and Skarmory, and her fighting type removal skills make Lucario and Terrakion harder to catch and kill.

    Jimbon gave me Latias's spread- 112 HP lets her have an easier time handling +2 Venasaur in the Sun, while max speed lets her speed tie with other HP Fire base 110s. The extra bulk is also helpful when sponging attacks. The rest is put into SpA for as much power as possible. <<

    Offensive Synergy:
    [​IMG]- Lucario, Garchomp, and Terrakion all smash this little bitch to pieces. Just the way things should be.
    [​IMG] (not including the other ugly stepsister because we'll all get turned to stone)- see above. Thundy can also KO with Focus Blast after an NP or two.
    [​IMG]- Luc, Garchomp, and Terrakion can handle this thing easily. Thundy can Focus Blast it too, but fuck misses.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Terrakion

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Cable Car (Terrakion) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - X-Scissor
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat


    >>Terrakion has gone through quite a few changes throughout the history of this team- and is a very important member. Its massive speed stat when equipped with a Choice Scarf lets me revenge many opponents even after they get to +1. Terrakion is an important answer to a lot of threats, mainly Volcarona and Starmie, and is also a great revenge killer or late game cleaner along with Lucario. It's also another valuable Ice type resist that can pummel through steels and flying types with Stone Edge. Its powerful Fighting / Rock type offensive coverage is almost unresisted, and this allows Terrakion to use sheer force to make itself hard to punish even when it's Choice locked. This, when used along with its high base attack stat and super fast speed, lets me use Terrakion to cover a whole variety of opponent- such as Lati@s, Celebi, Gengar (kind of), Starmie, and Alakazam. Terrakion also lures in Steel types that Thundurus-T can set up on, especially Skarmory.

    Terrakion's moveset is fairly standard. Stone Edge and Close Combat are both powerful STAB moves that I can use to plow through my opponent's defenses, and revenge kill flyers like Dragonite / Salamence or Bug types like Volcarona. X-Scissor is great because it hits Psychic and Dark types hard, which is exactly what I want and need in order to clear out all of the base 110+ whom can check Thundy-T and Latias. Earthquake hits Scarf Jirachi, Tentacruel, and Toxicroak, and that's pretty much it, but I still prefer it over Rock Slide and such. However, it really really sucks when Stone Edge misses, so I might consider using Rock Slide over EQ.

    Terrakion's EVs are quite standard. I run max speed to speed tie with opposing scarfed base 108s, and max attack so it can hit as hard as possible. The rest is put into SpDef so Terrakion can tank a special hit here or there in Sand.<<

    Offensive Synergy:
    [​IMG]- Man this shitty thing walls too many things. See above.
    [​IMG]- Thundy's HP Ice says hello. They often come in on TBolts and think I'm scarfed but I'm not.

    Currently testing:
    ~Earthquake --> Rock Slide
    ~Earthquake --> Toxic
    ~Earthquake --> Sandstorm


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Thundurus-Therian

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    You Found Me (Thundurus-Therian) (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Focus Blast
    - Nasty Plot
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]


    >>I loved Thundurus-T from the moment I saw it, and I've loved it ever since. It's absolutely 100% the MIP on the team (most important pokemon for those that are uninformed) because of its wallbreaking capabilities, with which the team would fail to succeed without. Ditto is weak to defensive / stall type pokemon, so when looking around in defensive RMT's I decided to use Thundy-T because many teams were weak to its BoltBeam+Fighting type coverage. It has definitely exceeded my expectations and probably more. It has the perfect stats for a wallbreaking role- an awesome base 101 Speed, an insane base 145 SpA, and good enough bulk to tank a hit or two to set up. After a Nasty Plot, Thundy-T's SpA skyrockets, and when boosted by Expert Belt, allows me to easily OHKO common Sand / Rain defensive cores, especially FerroCent, FerroTent, AmoongBro, Celebi, Heatran, Forretress, Skarmory, Blissey, Gliscor, and sometimes even Jirachi. I usually use Thundurus-T early or midgame to remove my opponent's defense as quickly as possible before the other members of my team are too worn down, because they absolutely need walls to be broken down before they can go on their rampages.

    Thundurus-T's typing, stats, and amazing coverage are the three things that make it so awesome. Electric / Flying is a great typing that lets me set up on Scizor and choice locked Fighting / Ground types. Getting STAB on Thunderbolt is also awesome, as it lets me vaporize bulky water types that Latias hates. 145 SpA is so humongous that it lets Thundurus-T get past Blissey and Chansey through sheer power alone- almost OHKO'ing both at +2 with Focus Blast. Thunderbolt and Hidden power Ice are Thundy-T's two main attack moves- going unresisted in almost all of the OU tier. Focus Blast rounds it off, hitting steels and tyranitar hard like FUCK, and lets me smile evilly as I destroy my opponent's Ferrothorn or Tyranitar because FUCK STEELS. Its ability to muscle past or at least wear down my opponent's special walls using power and coverage really helps Latias go to work, since she hates the existence of all Jirachi and blobs. Yes. Fuck the special walls.

    The EVs for Thundurus-T are pretty standard too- giving it max speed lets it outspeed Modest RP Lando and OHKO with HP Ice. Max SpA gives it FIREPOWAH and the rest are put into Defense for 'bulk'. As per Jimbon's suggestion, I shifted the evs out of HP so Thundy could switch into stealth rock more. Expert Belt is used over Life Orb because Thundy tends to get screwed over by hazards, status, and weather, so it'd just be dumb to add more passive damage onto that. EBelt also lets it fake choice, which is awesome.<<

    Offensive Synergy:
    [​IMG]- Lefties Starmie can be handled by Latias. All Starmie can be revenged by Terrak. Ditto can TBolt Starmie's as well.
    [​IMG]- Latias. Ditto / Luc can revenge kill.
    [​IMG]- my own Terrakion can come in on a predicted SE and kill with CC. Luc can also do that but must watch out for non choice Terraks. Latias can take CC's. Garchomp can also tank Stone Edges.
    [​IMG]- Latias can handle most. Terrak / Ditto / Luc can revenge kill.

    Currently testing:
    ~Nasty Plot --> Agility
    ~Expert Belt --> Yache Berry


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Ditto

    Baby close your eyes
    don't open til the morning light
    don't ever forget
    We haven't lost it all yet
    And all we know for sure
    Is all that we are fighting for
    Baby don't forget
    We haven't lost it all yet


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Syndicate (Ditto) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Imposter
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
    Relaxed nature
    IVs: 2 Spe
    - Transform
    -


    >>And now onto the star of the team, DITTO. I wrote a decently long and in depth passage about the uses and flaws of Ditto, where you can see here. Ditto is the bane of all Hyper Offensive / set up / Baton Pass teams- because in one move, it can steal the boosts and quickly turn the tables. Ditto can copy an opponent's +2 Salamence and revenge kill it, get the Moxie boost, and make my opponent scramble to subdue a +3 Atk and Spe Salamence. Against novice players, I can use my wallbreakers to destroy counters to an opponent's setup sweeper, and then 'let them' set up so I can steal the boosts and sweep. Against experienced players, the existence of Ditto makes them reluctant to set up at all, which of course is very beneficial to me as it takes a lot of defensive pressure off the shoulders of my sweepers. Ditto is really flexible and unpredictable as it can fulfill many different roles at once- all depending on my opponent's team. You may notice that my team doesn't have a spinner; this usually isn't an issue because I can just copy my opponent's spinner and spin. I lack a phazer; this is also fine because Ditto loves coming in on opponents that are at +6.

    Imposter is really all there is to Ditto's set, but don't take that lightly. Having Ditto on my team lets me take control of any one of my opponents pokemon, turning the regular 6 different pokemon my opponent has to handle into a grand total of 11- the rest of my team and the 6 pokemon that Ditto can copy at any time. This is why Ditto is so unpredictable- I can easily use it to exploit any holes in my opponent's defenses, so that just because I lack a certain answer to something doesn't mean I'm weak to it, becaues if my opponent carries a counter then that can also suffice. And remember what I said about Ditto being weak to stall? Well, I take that back because it can transform into my opponent's Jellicent and use its Scarfed Taunt to force switches and hazard damage. Because fuck stall.

    Thanks to Mikel, I've cleared out my confusion over Ditto's ivs. 2 Spe ivs let me speed drop opposing Dittos, so that should the event occur I'd come out on top as the other Ditto would recoil itself to death first. The ivs give me HP ice so that I can hit Chlorophyll sweepers and Lando-I and shit hard. I've considered HP Fire, as it OHKO's Vena in the Sun, but I'll have to test that out more.<<

    Offensive Synergy:
    Stall- Thundy-T and Lucario can wallbreak, making Stall an ineffective way to defeat this team.
    Pokemon that can not kill themselves effectively- Volcarona, CM Latias, and CM Jirachi can all be handled quite well with Terrak / Luc / Chomp. Yay for fast physical attackers.

    Threats
    >Here is a list of pokemon I wish never existed:
    [​IMG]- Mainly Scarf. I don't really have any good switchins, and it outspeeds my entire team. My only beats are to speed tie with Ditto or catch it after DMeteor SpA drops.
    [​IMG]- Seriously this is the most annoying shit ever, lol. SubDisable Gengar can dismantle my whole team- as Latias, my main answer, needs to be at 80+% in order to beat it, and Ditto can only defeat it when the Sub is down. In most cases, I can handle it, but if my team is weakened it's a total bitch.
    [​IMG]- Mainly Scarf. HP Ice / Earthquake / U-Turn / Stone Edge hits my whole team SE, but I can use revenge kill it quite easily if it's Scarfed. I just need to be careful.
    [​IMG]- THIS THING. The reason why it's so tough to take down is because it walls and kills my physical attackers and it can hit my special attackers hard with Ice Shard too. A real pain in the ass, it is.
    Lavos Sun- Lavos you're a cool guy but your team is really a pain in the ass to deal with -.- It's tough for me to get those rocks up, and Victini is not easy to stop. And don't forget that cheap ass Dugtrio that can just trap and kill your Terrakion. Thankfully, Chomp + Luc help against them a bit.

    ~[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]~

    CONCLUSION

    >So yeah, that's my current team. I've been messing around with it for nearly a month, and it's gone through many trials and tests. The team wouldn't be where it is without the help of:

    the pro raters at #ratemyteam: (but not terribad user Jirachi because he SUCKS :P) (jk Jirachi don't infract me ;_;)
    They helped me kickstart the original team and bring it to a new, more effective level. I found and was able to cover many of my team's flaws with the help of them. Thanks guys!

    My buddies over at PS!:
    honestly there are too many of you guys for me to name each and everyone individually, but if I've showed you this team and you've seen me battle and tamper with it I'm forever greatful for the encouragement and help you guys have given.

    You guys:
    Not just the raters, but also you teambuilders too! I got many of the ideas on the team from other RMT's- big sources were Novaray's team for the initial LooMoswine core and Smurf's team for the Garchomp idea.


    >I really hope you enjoyed my RMT. I'd really appreciate any tips or comments you guys have, and I'll promise to consider each and everyone one of them. Even if you don't have anything to say, leaving a Luvdics is cool too! Thanks for reading!


    Test it out!

    Importable (open)

    How to Save a Life (Garchomp) @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Swords Dance
    - Stealth Rock

    Look After You (Lucario) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Swords Dance
    - Crunch

    She Is (Latias) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 112 HP / 144 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Recover
    - Psyshock
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Cable Car (Terrakion) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - X-Scissor
    - Stone Edge
    - Close Combat

    You Found Me (Thundurus-Therian) (M) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Focus Blast
    - Nasty Plot
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Syndicate (Ditto) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Imposter
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 2 Spd
    - Transform
    -
  2. jpw234

    jpw234

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    121
    Wow Electrolyte, this looks like an awesome team. I'm not really all that experienced of a rater so I'm not going to try to change a bunch of stuff. You did, however, mention that you were considering replacing EQ on Terrakion with Rock Slide. I really don't like that idea because I think it opens up a big weakness to SD Toxicroak with Sucker Punch and either Cross Chop or Drain Punch. At +2 Sucker Punch OHKOs Latias and Thundurus-T who can't play around it, and without EQ neither Terrakion or Lucario will be able to OHKO and avoid getting taken out by a fighting move. Garchomp checks this (can't switch in to a possible Ice Punch) but it looks like he's more exposed so I wouldn't like to rely on that, and Toxicroak lacks SE coverage against itself so I'm pretty sure it could just SD again against Ditto and beat it with Drain Punch. EQ on Terrakion gives you a guaranteed way to revenge it, and +2 Sucker Punch only does about 40% back to you.

    Edit: I'm also slightly concerned about heavy-hitting sun sweepers with U-Turn like Victini and Darmanitan, who can do a number on all of your pokemon while U-Turning out of Latias to maintain momentum. Scarf Terrakion should be able to revenge these threats, but these teams will often have Dugtrio hiding somewhere to take out your Terrakion when it gets exposed. I'm sure these can be played around, but if you can think of something to help out there it might be a good idea. I don't have anything off of the top of my head that doesn't open up holes...perhaps you could use an offensive Heatran as your Stealth Rock lead? It does still handle steels, but not the physical priority users you're currently relying on Garchomp to help out with.

    You're a much better battler than I, but I hope this helped out! Good luck with your team.
  3. Matt Tuck

    Matt Tuck

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Messages:
    33
    Hi,

    Solid HO team! I'm not a rater by any means but im gonna do this anywayz. As you already mentioned lati twins really give you some serious problems and so does any dragon spam team with only ditto being a check which is pretty unreliable at times . Scarf latios can come in an draco meteor without any worries as lucario is a steel with weak defenses and can by no means take a draco well. The best way to fix a dragon spam problem is consider switching SD Scizor > SD Lucario to handle dragons a whole lot better. You can choose whatever spread suits you.

    Another suggestion is try Focus Sash > Rocky Helmet on Garchomp as it allows you to safely get up rocks when necessary without problems and in case you happen to keep hazards off your field you can use it as an effective revenge killer in a way since sash allows you to take a hit from dragons and KO back with Outrage. Also personally i think rocky helmet doesn't do much for chomp unless he is running a more bulkier spread.

    Good Luck! Luvdisc'd :)
  4. Lohgock

    Lohgock

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    369
    Just saying The Fray is an amazing band and I'm always happy to see other The Fray fans beside me :)

    Your team also looks pretty solid, but Gengar might give you a lot of trouble since the only thing outspeeding it has to rely on a move with shitty accuracy to break a possible sub. It's not that easy to fix, but I guess you might want to consider Bullet Punch over Crunch.
    Another possible change would be Rock Slide on Terrakion. While it doesn't do much for your synergie, it can help revenging Pokemon you normally have to rely on Stone Edge to revenge kill.

    Hope that helped and gl with your team :)
  5. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    510
    Hi there,

    Cool team Electrolyte, I remember you posted this for the #RMT workshop and it's nice to see you've made the team work. As for your team, I think one of your main problems is how you're fully reliant on Latias for Rain / Sun teams, when it does have trouble handling them single-handedly. I'd consider changing your EV spread to 112 HP / 144 SAtk / 252 Spe, which gives you a little bit of bulk to take on +2 Venusaur better, while also helping against Keldeo / Politoed / Starmie who look a little annoying when Latias is weakened. If you want to keep your offensive set, then simply go for 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe -- the 12 HP EVs you lose really aren't helping you live anything, while the chance to speed tie with other Hidden Power [Fire] Latias / Latios / Gengar is much more important. This becomes notable given the latter two cause you significant problems. Either set works, try them both and see what happens.

    Also agreeing with the Rock Slide suggestion for Terrakion, but you could also add another coverage move to help beat common Terrakion switch-ins. Landorus-T and Hippowdon in particular are two Pokemon who look annoying, as Scarf Landorus-T has no problem switching into Terrakion / Lucario, while U-Turning out of your ground immunities. Specially Defensive Hippowdon similarly looks annoying, being able to beat Latias easily, while phazing out boosting Lucario / Thundurus-T. Consider trying out Toxic somewhere on Terrakion, at least allowing you to force Landorus-T and Hippowdon out or to heal up respectively, making them much easier setup fodder for your boosting sweepers. It allows you to keep the momentum as they switch-in, which I'd argue is extremely important for such an offensive team as this. I'd argue the loss of a coverage move on Terrakion doesn't hurt you at all, as Fighting / Rock coverage is already all you need.

    After looking at your team, all the main threats to your team are Scarfers that outspeed Terrakion, or apply pressure on it as it switches in and forces you to predict. If you want to overcome this issue, you could try something like Agility on Thundurus-T, the choice of move you could replace is up to you, as I know Thundurus-T is your main wallbreaker. I think this gives you a much better for opposing offense teams, and allows you to break through stuff like Latios when it has taken prior damage, Gengar before it can setup a Substitute and Scarf Landorus-T if you can get off an Agility prior to it switching. You also want to drop those 4 HP EVs and put them somewhere else, for an extra Stealth Rock switch-in.

    But yeah, this is a pretty cool team. I haven't tried Ditto before, but I think it's very situational, and that team slot could be used by another Scarfer who can fare well against some of the problems posed by your team. I won't get into that because Ditto is the main part of this team, but just something to consider.

    Good luck!
  6. Alexander.

    Alexander.
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,674
    Hey there,

    Looking at your team, one of your main problem is the weakness against Sun teams in general since Chlorophyll sweepers and Victini and Darmanitan as well, can be very troublesome for your team. To solve this weakness without change any Pokemon of your team, I suggest you to use Sandstorm instead of Earthquake on Terrakion, which gives you the chance to change the weather when Ninetales is dead, weather teams generally sacrificate their weather summoner against weatherless team as yours because they think that a weather summoner isn't very important against a weatherless team and if it's important, it's less important than the other members of the weather team and you can take advantage of it using Sandstorm, if you change the weather after that Ninetales is dead you can win more easily the game which you are playing of course, and for a team which has some problem against Sun teams, that's really important. Otherwise Earthquake doesn't seem really useful for your team since stuff like Toxicroak, Jirachi and Tentacruel aren't threatening for this team at all, also Sandstorm would help you against Rain teams too, which is really good in my opinion since Keldeo and Tornadus can be quite troublesome for your team, it helps against other Pokemon common in Rain teams such as Tentacruel, Toxicroak, Calm Mind Jirachi, Azumarill and so on too, of course.

    Second, I suggest you to use Focus Sash instead of Rocky Helmet on Garchomp, it would help you a lot against stuff such as Latios, Latias, Landorus and so on which can all impede Garchomp to put the Stealth Rock which is a really important move to deal threats such as Tornadus, Thundurus-T, Dragonite, Salamence, Volcarona etc more easily, you should also consider Fire Blast replacing Sword Dance that is in my opinion a better move than Sword Dance on Lead Garchomp since it allows to smash Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Forretreess as well which can wall easily your current Garchomp and put at the same some annoying hazards, which you can't spin or prevent since you haven't a Rapid Spin user or a Magic Bounce user.

    After that, I suggest you to follow all Jimbon's suggestions about Latias and Thundurus-T because they are pretty good as always, you should also consider Yache Berry instead of Expert Belt on Thundurus-T which would help you a lot against Mamoswine which can be problematic for your team since you haven't a solid switch into it and since it can revenge-kill Garchomp, Latias and your current Thundurus-T, Yache Berry would allow to resist to Mamoswine's Ice Shard and to KO it back with Focus Blast, if Mamoswine dies, Latias can do her job better of course and you can continue the sweep with Thundurus-T too.

    As last thing, I suggest you to try Bullet Punch on Lucario, which helps you against Terrakion, Choice Scarf Tyranitar and Gengar, which is a threat for your team, as you already said; I know that Crunch is useful versus Slowbro, Reuniclus and Jellicent which can all give problems to Lucario but they aren't threatening for your team in my opinion so you should consider Bullet Punch on Lucario and see how it works during your battles.

    Good luck!
  7. mikel

    mikel frizy will carry ocn
    is a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2011
    Messages:
    972
    i'm not much of a TR, but just regarding ditto, you should always be running 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 2 as your IVs with a relaxed/sassy nature in case of a ditto / ditto mirror match. in this case, neither transforms and the faster ditto kills itself first by struggle damage. this IV spread gives you minimum speed along with max power HP Ice; 0 spe works to give 64 BP HP Ice if you prefer that and you will beat 2 spe ditto (this is rare though).
  8. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte The Great Stone Dragon
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,946
    Whoo, so many replies. I'm glad the team has interested all of you!

    I have used Garchomp to handle pokemon like Band Victini / Darmanitan as well as Volcarona, and it does a nice job with that. If I can get rocks up, it's also a shitton easier to handle, because all they really do is U-Turn to annoy the heck out of people.

    A bulkier spread might be of use but idk. Thanks for the rate!


    Hey there, thanks for the Luvdisc! :D

    I've never considered Scizor; it seems like it might be a good idea. Being able to trap and kill Lati@s and Ghost types would be awesome! And it beats Mamoswine easily too. However, it might make me a bit weaker to Sun teams- but still, it’s a good idea. Thanks!
    I’m really reluctant to get rid of the helmet on Chomp; I’d rather even run a more bulky spread if the need arises, because the ability to take 33% away from pokemon by merely just switching in is really useful when I need to whittle down some opposing pokemon. Nevertheless, I’ll try your suggestion. Thanks!

    The Fray <3
    I’ve considered Bullet Punch on Lucario, and it seems like a pretty good idea, though I’m not too sure it’ll be able to handle Gengar as well as Crunch could. It could help with Terrakion too, but most of the time Crunch is better because it lets me hit Slowbro and such that I don’t want to use Thundy-T to have to hit. Still, I’ll definitely try it!
    I’ll also consider Rock Slide, since someone agrees. Chomp already has a stronger EQ anyway.
    Thanks for the rate ^^

    Hey Jimbon!
    I’ll definitely try that Latias spread; it seems like a bit more bulk would be a lot more helpful. Thanks!
    As for what to do with Terrak’s last slot- I’ve certainly never considered Toxic, though it could in essence help with Hippowdown and some walls. For Lando-T, I’ve actually tried running HP Ice with Naïve, though I dropped it. Do you think it’d work better? For now, I’ll try Toxic, and see how it works out.
    Agh, I really wish Thundurus-T could use 5 moves, because yeah Agility would really really help, but since it can only use four moves I have to use Nasty Plot. Smashing through walls is a huge part of what Thundurus-T does, and it needs all of the moves it has now in order to do so successfully. Damnit 4MSS. And thanks for the ev tip; I’ve moved them to Def.
    I’m glad you think the team is cool! You’re right, there are definitely better pokemon than Ditto- and perhaps I’ll try the team with another pokemon in the future. Still, Ditto is a cool poke, so it’s staying for now, haha.
    Thanks again for the rate!

    Hey Alexander!
    Sandstorm on Terrakion is definitely an interesting suggestion. It would definitely help me handle Sun teams, as well as generate more passive damage for Luc, Chomp, and Terrak to take advantage of. The only problem is that it puts a short timer on Thundy-T, but I rarely use Terrak and THundy at the same time, so it shouldn’t be a problem. I’ll try it!
    Hm, another suggestion to use Sash over Helmet. I’ll definitely try that out, since so many people suggest it. I’ll try Fire Blast too, though the power boost from SD is really useful as it helps Chomp rip holes early game.
    On Luc, I’ll try Bullet Punch. Seems as if most people think it’s a good idea.
    The Yache suggestion is cool, though I’m also kind of reluctant to change Thundy’s EBelt, as the power up is really useful when smashing through walls. EBelt lets me KO Ferrothorn and the Blobs. I don’t really keep Thundy in vs Mamo anyway; risking the FBlast miss is not something I want to do considering the fact that FBlast hits like one time out of every three, lol. Still, I’ll try it out.
    Thanks for the rate!

    Thanks for the rate Mikel!
    So yeah the ivs on Ditto were a misunderstanding on my part. Thanks for the explanation; I’ve changed the iv spread. :)


    Thanks for all of the input, guys! I can’t wait to hear what more of you have to say!
  9. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte The Great Stone Dragon
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,946
    Ok, Bump, with some updates.

    I've decided to keep Focus Sash on Garchomp. I'm also keeping EBelt and Nasty Plot on Thundy-T.

    I'm still testing Lucario's Crunch --> BP suggestion, leaning towards Crunch. I'm also still testing Garchomp's SD --> FBlast, as well as Terrak's EQ --> Sandstorm, leaning towards EQ.

    Any other ideas?
  10. Tripod

    Tripod

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Hi Electrolyte

    This is an awesome team and with Ditto being a excellent revenge killer. I have used ditto on all my Uber teams because I always let Arceus set-up to +6 and then watch ditto come in a sweep with E-Speed. However, since the other raters focused on Moves and Items I will foocus on the EV spreads. First of all, your Ditto has more then 508 EVs, lol. Okay, but I see that your Latias is running max speed with Hidden Power [Fire]. I do not recommend having max speed because you always lose speed ties with Latios and opposing Latias generally there to counter rain teams so they won't really use Hidden Power [Fire] so instead you can add these useless 8 EVs to your SDef. This is very minor but its better than nothing and it may help when you live with 1% for example without them.

    The next thing that I recommend is switching Thundurus-T's item to a Yache Berry as it allows you to live some threatening Ice Beams and Ice Shards. It still lets you bluff a choice item while surviving Thundurus-T's checks at the same time. Also, super-effective attacks comming off that deadly 145 Base SAtk Stat really doesn't need a boost. I also second Sandstorm over Earthquake. Earthquake will generally never be used anyways and you have the other pokemon to check Jirachi and Toxicroak and Tentacruel isn't even a threat to this team. Sandstorm lets you put a stop to sun teams and sun teams is the weather this team struggles with the most.

    I really don't say anything big has to be changed. This is a boss team and is epic and checks a lot of threats like a freakin' boss's boss of his dad's boss which is boss. Okay, well Gengar really kills this team not like a boss but really, cool boss team, it's boss.
  11. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,302
    Hey Electrolyte!

    I wanted to make a rate to make up for my lack of activity and what better way than to rate your team? (I looked at the other "Peaked #1" team but it was on PS and doesn't count in my book lol because technically I'd have like so many #1 teams O_o).

    Okay so what stands out to me is the offensive momenta you have created for yourself. I like this team and how you are trying to fit Ditto, an underrated threat in such a face paced metagame, but I feel this team makes it work. I feel like capturing a lategame sweep is quite harder than most since you rely on the opponent having set up to use Ditto and Scarf Terrakion is a really bad scarf Pokemon (I'm sure you've noticed). You say you use the scarf variant for threats like Volcarona and Starmie, but you don't really have a Starmie issue since Latias walls the hell out of it and Volcarona is more or less maimed by any Terrakion set. I know why you actually use Scarf Terrakion -- RK'ing --, but I'm not sure Terrakion is really needed when Ditto can be used as a good revenge killer (basically revenge killing anything, while ThundyT revenges stall threats). I would try going with a different Choice Scarfer, most preferably Jirachi. I know it might seem like a bad idea as it cuts the offensive momenta your Terrakion offers, but really what's the difference? (What's the point of using Ditto when you are afraid of a Volcarona set up?????? Fuck the Volcarona check let it set up so you can abuse the power of your ditto XD). Jirachi handles the Lati twins, something you desperately need. It offers U-turn momentum, allowing ThundyT and Lucario more set up moments, while also offering some Trick crippling to stall teams.

    Jirachi (open)

    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
    - Iron Head
    - U-turn
    - Ice Punch
    - Trick


    On Thundurus-T, I wouldn't just make it a stall killer. I'm sure you noticed by Focus Blast isn't all too reliable and really only hits one Pokemon: Ferrothorn . But Lucario sets up on it if your not switching into a Thunder Wave, Latias also has Hidden Power Fire :DDDDDDD, so I really don't think you need FB. I would go with Agility so you can set up early on sun (on things like Donphan and Dugtrio) and you can proceed to dent most of the sun teams so that by the time they can finally revenge ThundyT, you have Lucario and Ditto to clean up. Furthermore, the move Agility gives you the ability to lategame sweep much easier than before so I would certainly try it. I would enhance the EVs to Hugos / BKC's bulky spread of 40 Hp / 96 Def / 252 SpA / 16 SDef / 104 Spe @ Modest. The bulk should be noticeable and it should help ThundyT become an overall better teammate. Finally, give him Leftovers to enhance his ability to tank random priority attacks.

    So the Lati twins look like huge threats to this team (especially since, as you've noticed, Ditto can't revenge them properly because you copy -2 and most Lati teams have steel partners), and really you best switch in is Lucario. It's for this reason I highly suggest removing HP Fire from Latias in favor for anything else (hello Surf) because you really need to meet the speed ties. Even with Jirachi's assistance its still going to be hard to continually switch into these Dragon attacks.

    Nice team mate. Peak #1 for me and tell me all about it ;]
    ~ Shurtugal
  12. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude based wooper #dealwithit
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,216
    Hey Electrolyte nice team!

    This team is quite solid and you have already got a few suggestions so there really isn't anything that needs changing imo. However I do have something which you might want to test out which helps you against some of the Pokemon on your threatlist. Particularily the lati's, Donphan and Landorus-T. Your team as Jimbon mentioned is very reliable on Latias to help you against sun teams and if he goes to sleep, you will have a tough time.

    Using a Life Orb Mamoswine>Lucario seems like a suggestion worth trying. Mamoswine fits great in this spot because like Lucario is is a strong physical attacker and it has acces to priority in Ice Shard. Ice Shard could help you revenge kill a weakened Lati twin or Venasaur and can also hit Landorus-T for 4x super effective damage. outspeeding due to priority and hitting venasaur super effectively helps immensely against sun and lavos sun especially seeing how Mamoswine's other stab (ground) hits other common sun team Pokemon like Heatran and Ninetales. With Icicle Spear you can actually break Donphan's Sturdy and possible KO and Superpower provides you with a strong Fighting-type move to help with the loss of Lucario. Although it can't beat these pokemon that easily for example Ice Shard still won't KO a healthy lati or Venasaur and I am pretty sure Landorus-T can live an Ice Shard after Intimidate but Mamoswine definitely helps you against these Pokemon, more so then Lucario does. Without Lucario you do lose a set up sweeper but Thundeours-T already provides you with a great set up sweeper. I think Adamant is the nature to go seeing how some of your threats are fast pokemon that will outspeed a Mamoswine regardlessof nature (Latios, Latias, Venasaur) and Adamant will help to power up your Ice Shard to use against these Pokemon.

    So there you have it! This is more of an optional change and it is up to you if you want the stronger firepower that Lucario brings or the ability to help cover some of your weaknesses with Mamoswine. Any way great team and Luvdisc'd

    Set
    Show Hide
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine @ Life Orb | Thick Fat
    Adamant | 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Ice Shard | Earthquake | Icicle Spear | Superpower

    TL;DR
    Show Hide
    Show Hide

    Lucario--->Mamoswine



    ~Superpowerdude
  13. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,690
    I really think you should consider Bullet Punch over Crunch on Lucario. The only thing that I can really see crunch being more effective against is water pokemon that resist / are immune to CC like slowbro / jellicent, but the switch ins are obvious and you can play around that.

    Additionally, the rest of your team handles them (slowbro / jelli) well except terrakion. Terrakion can definitely be a dead weight pokemon because it's pretty predictable and is only really good late game against other offensive teams when you put yourself in a "check mate" position. Replacing it for a Landorus can help you keep momentum and it works well with lucario. scarfed terrakion and lucario did not have good synergy together because they had similar pokemon that handled them and neither could really break through those walls and have the other take advantage of that. Landorus can punish your opponent for playing cautiously with u-turn plays.

    set (open)
    [​IMG]

    (Landorus) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SpD)
    - U-turn
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Stone Edge


    Hope I helped!

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)