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Talonflame (DONE)

Discussion in 'XY Previews' started by Pwnemon, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. Pwnemon

    Pwnemon judges silently
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    [​IMG]
    CAW

    [Pros]

    <p>Talonflame's role is very straightforward: be faster than fast. Gale Wings gives its Flying-type attacks boosted priority, which, in addition to its already blazing 126 base Speed, makes it the perfect choice for picking off any weakened threat, as it is almost guaranteed to outspeed. Its Brave Bird is the strongest +1 priority move in the game by a fairly wide margin and, when combined with Flare Blitz, has great coverage. Furthermore, it is a great choice for fast teams that struggle with Trick Room, as it has a very fast Taunt and can still use its +1 priority moves if Trick Room does happen to go up. If all else fails, it has a priority Tailwind&emdash;a very useful suicide move.</p>

    [Cons]

    <p>Unfortunately, Talonflame runs into a lot of trouble when it comes to base stats. Aside from Speed, its numbers are decidedly worse than mediocre, having a lower main attacking stat than Amoonguss. Furthermore, its defenses are absolutely terrible, between its low base stats, weaknesses to common Water- and Rock-type attacks, and penchant for KOing itself with its STAB moves. All this adds up to Talonflame being absolutely hopeless in a damage war against bulky Pokemon and very liable to be KOed.</p>

    [Set Recommendations]

    <p>Talonflame @ Life Orb<br />
    Ability: Gale Wings<br />
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe<br />
    Adamant Nature<br />
    - Brave Bird<br />
    - Flare Blitz<br />
    - Taunt / Protect<br />
    - Protect / Tailwind<br />

    <p>Talonflame's main goal is to hit things with a priority Brave Bird; the rest of his moves are for when that doesn't suffice. Flare Blitz provides additional coverage, while Taunt helps Talonflame deal with bulkier Pokemon and Tailwind lets Talonflame throw out emergency support against faster teams that it cannot handle on its own. It is advised to pick only one of these so that Talonflame has room for Protect, but both can be run.</p>

    <p>Talonflame @ Choice Band<br />
    Ability: Gale Wings<br />
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe<br />
    Adamant Nature<br />
    - Brave Bird<br />
    - Flare Blitz<br />
    - U-turn<br />
    - Steel Wing / Return<br />

    <p>Life Orb Talonflame is not powerful enough to OHKO most common offensive Pokemon. That's where Choice Band Talonflame comes in. It forgoes the ability to choose its moves in exchange for extra attacking power that helps it secure KOs, such as a guaranteed OHKO against 252 HP Hitmontop and a chance at one versus Hydreigon. Brave Bird and Flare Blitz, as above, are mandatory STAB, while U-turn is incredibly weak but better than a dry switch. Return is the fourth option mostly for want of a better move, but it does deal better damage to Rotom-W than anything else.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Bulkier Pokemon that don't fear Taunt are the best answer to Talonflame, as it doesn't have enough power to win in a slugfest. Of these, three stand out above the rest: Tyranitar, who resists both of Talonflame's STAB moves and can return with super effective STAB, Rotom-W, who does the same, and Slowbro, who can easily tank a Brave Bird and return a Scald, while also being immune to Talonflame's Taunt if Oblivious or being able to heal off the damage if Regenerator. Failing one of these surefire counters, the best way to handle Talonflame is to remove its Speed through Thunder Wave or Trick Room. Though Talonflame will still have its fast Brave Bird, everything else will become garbage.</p>

    skeleton (open)

    [Pros]
    • priority brave bird is the strongest priority in the game by a lot
    • really good coverage between his dual stabs
    • even when not using prio is v fast (outspeeds 110s by one point if adamant—troll hard)
    • prio twind good suicide move
    • fast taunt
    • is good at picking off damaged fast things, makes a good poke for fast teams who want something that still works under TR
    [Cons]
    • basically everything else lol
    • really frail and weak to common things like water, electric, and rock
    • only 81 base attack so it really doesnt hit that hard
    • if your opponent doesnt want to help then you can end up killing yourself with flare blitz and brave bird
    [Set Recommendations]

    Talonflame @ Life Orb
    Ability: Gale Wings
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Flare Blitz
    - Taunt / Protect
    - Tailwind / Protect
    • hit opponents with brave bird 99% of the time
    • flare blitz for the other 1%
    • pick between taunt and tailwind, or go with both and eschew protect
    Talonflame @ Choice Band
    Ability: Gale Wings
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Flare Blitz
    - U-turn
    - Steel Wing / Return
    • LO talonflame (as embarrassing as this is) doesn't pack enough punch
    • use choice band to trade your good non-attacking moves for more power
    • for example: now have a chance to ohko hydreigon, now ohko hitmontop always
    • steel wing for fairies and rocks, return for rotom-w
    [Checks and Counters]
    • TTAR
    • Rotom-W
    • bulkier mons dgaf except about taunt
    • trick room and thunder wave TO AN EXTENT—still has its flying moves but other moves will b nerfed
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
  2. lucariojr

    lucariojr quell the storm and ride the thundurus
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    needs more gem acrobatics imo
  3. Pwnemon

    Pwnemon judges silently
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    gems arent released in gen vi and you cant get them thru pokemon bank so we don't know how long it will be until gems are out

    check my post in the main reservations thread, you'll see i already thought of that :p
  4. lucariojr

    lucariojr quell the storm and ride the thundurus
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    where are you guys getting that gems are unobtainable? i mean i'm having a hard time finding them but i'd like some confirmation on this (iirc people have found them via rock smash). or i guess tell me on irc so i dont clutter the thread with ingame shit lol
  5. Nollan

    Nollan EV Master Nollan
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    For the record, Steel Wing does less vs Fairies than Brave Bird / Flare Blitz (140 vs 180). The only reason to use it is Rock-types tbh, or if you want to avoid recoil while hurting things like Fairies.
  6. lucariojr

    lucariojr quell the storm and ride the thundurus
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    i think this looks good as a preview, though life orb is a lot more common than choice band as ive seen. this thing is a monster on gbu >_>

    QC 1/1
  7. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
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    Hihi, GP check! :)

    Additions
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    Comments

    GP Check (open)
    [Pros]

    (I assume that it's fine to not have the Pros and Cons sections in bulletin points, but wouldn't <p></p> be needed? Unless it is done differently here, add those.)

    Talonflame's role is very straightforward: be faster than fast. Gale Wings gives its Flying-type attacks boosted priority, which, in addition to its already blazing 126 base Speed, makes it the perfect choice for picking off any weakened threat, as it is almost guaranteed to outspeed. Its Brave Bird is the strongest +1 priority move in the game by a fairly wide margin and, when combined with Flare Blitz, has great coverage. Furthermore, it is a great choice for fast teams that struggle with Trick Room, since as it has a very fast Taunt and can spam utilize / take advantage of / something other than spam +1 priority moves if Trick Room does happen to go up. If all else fails, it has a priority Tailwind&mdash (not that big a deal, but having it in that format just makes it easier.) a very useful suicide move.

    [Cons]

    Unfortunately, Talonflame runs into a lot of trouble when it comes to base stats. Aside from Speed, its numbers are decidedly worse than mediocre, having a lower main attacking stat than Amoonguss. Furthermore, its defenses are absolutely terrible, between its low base stats, weaknesses to common Water- and Rock-type attacks, and penchant for KOing itself with its STAB moves. All this adds up to Talonflame being absolutely hopeless in a damage war against bulky Pokemon and very liable to be KOed. Still, being a "trump card" against fast Pokemon makes Talonflame a great choice for teams that fear losing a speed war.(I'm not sure if this last point is necessary; this is a preview, not an Overview, so this section should be solely for pointing out the flaws.)

    [Set Recommendations]

    Talonflame @ Life Orb
    Ability: Gale Wings
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Flare Blitz
    - Taunt / Protect
    - Protect / Tailwind

    Talonflame's main goal is to hit things with a priority Brave Bird; the rest of his moves are for when that doesn't suffice. Flare Blitz provides additional coverage, while Taunt helps Talonflame deal with bulkier Pokemon and Tailwind lets Talonflame throw out emergency support against faster teams that it cannot handle on its own. It is advised to pick only one of these so that Talonflame has room for Protect, but both can be run.

    Talonflame @ Choice Band
    Ability: Gale Wings
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Flare Blitz
    - U-turn
    - Steel Wing / Return

    Life Orb Talonflame is not powerful enough to OHKO most common offensive Pokemon. That's where Choice Band Talonflame comes in. It forgoes the ability to choose its moves in exchange for extra attacking power that helps it secure KOes, such as a guaranteed OHKO on against 252 HP Hitmontop and a chance at one vs versus Hydreigon. Brave Bird and Flare Blitz, as above, are mandatory STAB, while U-turn is incredibly weak but better than a dry switch. Return is the fourth option mostly for want of a better move, but it does deal better damage to Rotom-W than anything else.

    [Checks and Counters]

    Bulkier Pokemon that don't fear Taunt are the surefire answer to Talonflame, since as it doesn't have enough power to win in a slugfest. Of these, three stand out above the rest: Tyranitar, who resists both of Talonflame's STAB moves and can return with super effective STAB, Rotom-W, who does the same, and Slowbro, who can easily tank a Brave Bird and return a Scald, while also being immune to Talonflame's Taunt if with? Oblivious or being able to heal off the damage if Regenerator. Failing one of these surefire counters, the best way to handle Talonflame is to remove its Speed through Thunder Wave or Trick Room. Though Talonflame will still have its fast Brave Bird, everything else will become garbage.

    GP APPROVED 1/1
  8. duffyhja

    duffyhja

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    Talonflame
    Ability: Gale Wings
    EVs: 252 Atk / 128 HP / 128 Spd
    IVs: 31 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Tailwind
    - Acrobatics
    - Flare Blitz
    - Roost

    This set is similar, although the biggest thing is the jolly nature. With a jolly nature, 31 IVs in speed, and 128 Evs in speed, this talonflame is one point faster than the standard adamant Talonflame with max IVs and max EVs in speed. Which works better against other Talonflames in doubles, which is important since Talonflame is probably the most used gen 6 pokemon so far. I believe with so many other Talonflames being used you're going to want a faster Talonflame. Since you invest less EVs into speed you can put them into another stat like HP. I know it might not hit as hard since it isn't adamant, but the speed matters and this Talonflame can survive a little better.
  9. Pwnemon

    Pwnemon judges silently
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    smogon policy is not to endorse speed creeping in our analyses; if i put that as the main set, then wouldn't 132 spe become the optimal set, then 136, etc?

    besides, talonflame is pretty overrated imo, it's not worth running an anti-bird bird that hits 10% weaker

    (besides, roost is terrible move on bird)
  10. Unowninator

    Unowninator

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    Wouldn't it be a good idea to invest some more EVs into HP? Especially if you're running Tailwind. What do the Speed EVs help you outrun?
  11. Pwnemon

    Pwnemon judges silently
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    Latios by one point... But you bb him... I'll look into it thanks

    Edit: thund-t, spread has been changed to match
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013

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