OU Talonflame

alexwolf

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Overview
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With access to Gale Wings and STAB Brave Bird, Talonflame is unarguably the best revenge killer in OU. It can also function as a great cleaner or sweeper, with Swords Dance, Bulk Up, or a Choice Band. Furthermore, Talonflame has priority Roost and a good typing that gives it plenty of opportunities to heal up, allowing it to stick around throughout the match and check some common threats, such as Landorus, Mega Mawile, Mega Charizard Y, Mega Scizor, and Mega Venusaur. However, Talonflame's 4x weakness to Stealth Rock prevents it from switching in and out as much as it would want and makes Defog or Rapid Spin support a necessity, hampering its effectiveness. Talonflame's weakness to Stealth Rock is amplified by the fact that both its STABs make it suffer recoil damage, further decreasing its longevity. Also, Talonflame's unimpressive base 81 Attack and lack of coverage moves mean that it's easy to stop with physically bulky Pokemon or Pokemon that resists its STABs, such as Rotom-W, Landorus-T, and Hippowdon. Finally, Talonflame has weaknesses to common Water-, Electric-, and Rock-type attacks, so taking it out is not hard at all.


Revenge Killer
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name: Revenge Killer
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Flare Blitz
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Tailwind / Roost
ability: Gale Wings
item: Choice Band / Sharp Beak
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
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Brave Bird gets priority and is Talonflame's most useful asset, OHKOing many offensive Pokemon and allowing Talonflame to clean up weakened teams. Flare Blitz takes care of the Steel-types that resist Brave Bird as well as some Electric-types, such as Thundurus and Zapdos. U-turn does respectable damage to some of Talonflame's best switch-ins, such as Tyranitar and Rotom-W, and gives switch initiative. With Choice Band, Tailwind is the best option for the last slot, as it gets priority and can let teams revenge kill Pokemon that Brave Bird alone can not, such as Mega Tyranitar, Mega Aerodactyl, and Mega Manectric. If Sharp Beak is the item of choice, then Roost is the superior option, allowing Talonflame to find more switch-in opportunities and stick around for longer, by being able to heal damage taken from resisted attacks, such as Scizor's U-turn and Clefable's Moonblast.

There are some other situational moves that can be used on the last slot. Will-O-Wisp provides permanent chip damage to Talonflame's switch-ins and neuters its physically based checks, such as Tyranitar and Landorus-T, making them easier to wear down. However, being locked into a status move has severe drawbacks, not to mention that using U-turn as said check or counter comes in is often the best course of action. Lastly, Me First allows Talonflame to OHKO Garchomp and Kyurem-B that have just obtained a KO with a Dragon-type attack.

Set Details
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Maximum Speed is used for Talonflame to Speed tie with opposing Talonflame, OHKO Mega Pinsir before it manages to hit Talonflame with +2 Quick Attack, and outspeed positive natured base 110s, such as Latios and Latias, so that Talonflame can OHKO them with U-turn if possible. Choice Band is the superior item as Talonflame will mostly be using either Brave Bird or U-turn, but Sharp Beak gives more flexibility and allows Talonflame to use Roost. A Jolly nature with an EV spread of 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe can be used, enabling Talonflame to outspeed and OHKO Thundurus with Flare Blitz and giving it a bit more bulk.

Usage Tips
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Talonflame is first and foremost a revenge killer, and should be played as such. The moment the battle starts, you should identify which Pokemon Talonflame can revenge kill; if those Pokemon are not too threatening to your team, then Talonflame can be played more recklessly. Otherwise, it should be kept safe at all costs, unless its use is absolutely necessary. In some situations, Talonflame can also end games with Brave Bird, so if one sees a team that can be swept by Talonflame with minimal preparations, it is wise to keep Talonflame healthy until those preparations have been made. Also, U-turn is the best move to spam early-game, as most of Talonflame's checks and counters can get worn down pretty easily by U-turn and Stealth Rock.

Team Options
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A way to deal with Stealth Rock is the number one concern when using Talonflame. Excadrill, Latios, and Latias are the best Pokemon for this job, as all have decent synergy with Talonflame, resisting one or more of its weaknesses and beating some of its checks and counters (Mold Breaker Excadrill beats Rotom-W, Heatran, and Tyranitar; Latios and Latias beat Rotom-W, Landorus-T, and Thundurus). Next, a good check to Rotom-W and physical walls/pivots in general is needed, as they are the most common answers to Talonflame. Mega Venusaur and Kyurem-B can handle all of those, so they are both great partners. Rotom-W and Scizor have great synergy with Talonflame and can form a VoltTurn core that facilitates getting in for free. Stealth Rock support is nice to have, as it enables Talonflame to OHKO certain targets. For example, with Choice Band and Stealth Rock up, Brave Bird can OHKO Latias and Landorus, and 2HKO Mandibuzz and max HP Zapdos. Pokemon such as Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Terrakion are all great partners and some of the best offensive Stealth Rock setters. Finally, Choice Band Staraptor and Mega Pinsir work great alongside Talonflame, as they all have similar checks and counters, allowing them to batter down such Pokemon in an attempt to overwhelm and possibly sweep.


Bulk Up
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name: Bulk Up
move 1: Bulk Up
move 2: Brave Bird
move 3: Roost
move 4: Will-O-Wisp / Taunt
ability: Gale Wings
item: Leftovers
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
nature: Careful

Moves
========

Bulk Up makes Talonflame really difficult to take down and gives it the power it needs to sweep through teams. Brave Bird gets priority and hits hard after a few boosts, enabling Talonflame to bypass faster threats. Roost allows Talonflame to accumulate multiple boosts in front of Pokemon that can't significantly hurt it and gets priority, allowing Talonflame to soften the blow from faster Pokemon that use Rock- or Electric-type moves if the need arises. Will-O-Wisp pressures Talonflame's checks and counters by slowly wearing them down, while also limiting the offensive presence of some of those Pokemon, such as Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Landorus-T. Taunt prevents the use of phazing moves, entry hazards, and status moves, granting Talonflame the ability to beat some of its most common checks, namely Hippowdon and Heatran.

Substitute helps Talonflame stall out the PP of Stone Edge from Pokemon such as Tyranitar and Landorus-T, and Hydro Pump from Rotom-W, allowing it to use them as setup bait sometimes. Flare Blitz can be used in the last slot for a way to immediately deal with Thundurus and threatening Steel-types, such as Aegislash and Excadrill, but leaves Talonflame very prone to its usual checks and counters, unlike the other options for the last slot.

Set Details
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Talonflame's special bulk is maximized to help it take hits on its weaker side, as Bulk Up patches up its Defense. If using Taunt, a spread of 248 HP / 184 SpD / 76 Spe with a Careful nature can be used, letting Talonflame outrun Timid Deoxys-D and Taunt it before it can use Thunder Wave or set up entry hazards.

Usage Tips
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This set acts as a great counter to dangerous offensive Pokemon, namely Mega Charizard Y, Mega Mawile, and Mega Scizor, as it resists most of their common moves, has Roost to stay healthy, and can either answer with a Will-O-Wisp in the case of Mega Mawile and Mega Scizor, or start boosting with Bulk Up in the case of Mega Chariard Y. If the opponent does not have any Fire-type Pokemon, send Talonflame in as early as possible to cripple its checks with Will-O-Wisp, making them easier to wear down throughout the course of the game. With Taunt, this set stops many of the universal Talonflame checks, such as Whirlwind Hippowdon and specially defensive Heatran, so use this to your advantage. Send out Talonflame when it can threaten every Pokemon on the opposing team other than said check, and as they come in, either grab a second Bulk Up boost as they switch out (realizing they sent in the wrong Pokemon), or Taunt them and then grab a second Bulk Up boost. Also, take advantage of Talonflame's fast Taunt to handicap Pokemon that rely a lot on non-attacking moves, such as Deoxys-D, Defog Mandibuzz, and Hippowdon. Be aware of what attacks Talonflame can and cannot take so that you can decide whether to keep it in and boost more or switch out.

Team Options
========

Anti-Stealth Rock support is a must, even more so than with other sets. This is because Bulk Up Talonflame likes to switch in and out to take advantage of its defensive investment, nice typing, and Roost, in order to check multiple Pokemon and cripple its own checks with Will-O-Wisp. Additionally, Talonflame's lack of immediate power makes straight up walling it easier. Mega Scizor and Skarmory with Defog are the most sturdy Pokemon for this job, though more offensive choices such as Latios, Latias, and Excadrill can work depending on the team. All of these Pokemon have decent defensive synergy with Talonflame, being able to check or wall some of the Pokemon that Talonflame struggles against, such as Rotom-W, Heatran, Tyranitar, Thundurus, and Landorus-T. Mega Venusaur can check most of the Water- and Electric-types that threaten Talonflame, in addition to handling certain physically defensive Pokemon that wall Talonflame, such as Hippowdon and Tyranitar. Choice Band Staraptor can wear down Talonflame's checks and counters so that it has an easier time sweeping late-game, making for a great partner; the same goes for Mega Pinsir.


Swords Dance
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name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Brave Bird
move 3: Flare Blitz
move 4: Roost
ability: Gale Wings
item: Sharp Beak / Life Orb
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

With Swords Dance and priority Brave Bird, Talonflame can take the role of a sweeper. Brave Bird is fairly powerful after a boost and OHKOes most offensive Pokemon. Flare Blitz takes care of Steel-types, while Roost gives some use to Talonflame in the early- and mid-game, as it can throw a couple of attacks, recover off recoil and passive damage, and set up later to attempt a sweep. Roost grants Talonflame the ability to deal with the Pokemon it checks, such as Scizor, Clefable, Mega Venusaur, and Volcarona, for an extended period of time.

U-turn can be used on the last slot, as Talonflame fits nicely onto VoltTurn chains and can wear down some of its checks and counters, such as Rotom-W and Tyranitar. Taunt shuts down Hippowdon and defensive Heatran, allowing Talonflame to boost enough to get past them and sweep.

Set Details
========

Maximum Speed is used to Speed tie with opposing Talonflame and OHKO Mega Pinsir with Brave Bird before it can strike with Quick Attack. Sharp Beak is the best item option to power up Brave Bird, as after a boost, Flare Blitz has enough power to KO its targets. It's also the superior item because Life Orb Talonflame is quickly KOed due to recoil damage reducing its longevity. However, Life Orb is useful to get some crucial OHKOs with Brave Bird, namely a 43.8% chance to OHKO Thundurus, a 25% chance to OHKO Choice Scarf Excadrill and Sand Rush Excadrill in sand after Stealth Rock, a 50% chance to OHKO Choice Scarf Rotom-W after Stealth Rock, and a 75% chance to OHKO specially defensive Hippowdon after one layer of Spikes. Life Orb also gives Talonflame more immediate power, which is useful for revenge killing purposes. A Jolly nature with an EV spread of 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe can be used if Thundurus is particularly problematic, as Talonflame can then outspeed and OHKO it with Flare Blitz.

Usage Tips
========

This set can be very flexible in terms of how it is played. It can take the role of an all-out attacker, revenge killer, pivot, hole puncher, or late-game cleaner; choose what is appropriate after seeing your opponent's team. As long as there are hard counters to Talonflame still healthy, it's best to double switch out or heal with Roost. Also, if you want to clean with Talonflame, make sure that it has enough health to do so, as many teams rely on recoil damage to beat Talonflame if their checks and counters to it are weakened.

Team Options
========

Excadrill, Latios, and Latias are the best partners to Talonflame, as they are effective at getting rid of Stealth Rock, have good offensive presence, and cover Talonflame's weaknesses. Strong physical wallbreakers to weaken the physically bulky Pokemon that Talonflame can't OHKO, such as Hippowdon and Landorus-T, work well with Talonflame. Such Pokemon include Swords Dance Garchomp, Choice Band Terrakion, and Swords Dance Aegislash, with Garchomp also able to set up Stealth Rock. Rotom-W can deal with most physical walls and tanks that check Talonflame as well as bring it in unharmed with Volt Switch, making for a very effective teammate. Staraptor forms a very effective offensive core with Talonflame, as both Pokemon have similar checks and counters, so either of them can weaken the opposing team so that the other one can clean up later. If Staraptor holds Choice Band, it is usually the one that weakens the opposing team and Talonflame the one that sweeps, while if Staraptor is the Pokemon that holds Choice Scarf, the opposite happens. Mega Pinsir wears down Talonflame's checks and counters in a similar fashion, so it's another good teammate.


Other Options
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A set with Brave Bird, Roost, Taunt, and Will-O-Wisp can be used, allowing Talonflame to stallbreak, revenge kill, and cripple some of its counters all in one set; however, it excels at none of those roles and loses out on a lot of power, making revenge killing with Brave Bird much more difficult. Natural Gift along with Salac or Liechi Berry can be used on the Swords Dance set. Salac Berry gives Talonflame a 100 Base Power Fighting-type move, which it can use to get past Tyranitar and Heatran, while Liechi Berry gives it a 100 Base Power Grass-type move, which it can use to get past Rotom-W and Tyranitar. Finally, a mixed set with max Special Attack, Fire Blast, and Hidden Power Ice or Ground can be used, allowing Talonflame to get past some of its usual checks and counters such as Hippowdon, Landorus-T, and Heatran, and avoid recoil when using its Fire-type STAB move.


Checks & Counters
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**Physically Defensive Pokemon**: Pokemon with sheer physical bulk are some of the best checks and counters to Talonflame, as it is not very powerful. Physically defensive Gyarados, Slowbro, Zygarde, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, Gliscor, Mandibuzz, Vaporeon, and Krookodile all have excellent physical bulk and take neutral damage from Talonflame's STAB moves, and thus can wall it while Talonflame wears itself out through recoil damage (and takes damage from sandstorm in Hippowdon's case). Some of them can even OHKO it, namely Rock Slide Hippowdon, Gyarados, and Landorus-T. Keep in mind that any of these Pokemon that do not pose an immediate threat will lose to Bulk Up Talonflame with Taunt, and some of them are heavily crippled by Will-O-Wisp, a common move on the Bulk Up set. Basically, any physical attacker or Pokemon that lacks reliable recovery is very prone to getting worn down if Talonflame has Will-O-Wisp. Also, U-turn is another thing to keep in mind, as when combined with Stealth Rock damage, the move can wear down many of these Pokemon, especially those that are weak to it or lack recovery.

**Pokemon that resist Talonflame's STABs**: Almost every Pokemon that resists Talonflame's STAB moves and has passable physical bulk is at least a good check to it. An exception is Thundurus, which can't switch into Talonflame at all, but can take one Choice Band-boosted Brave Bird after Stealth Rock damage and OHKO it. Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Rotom-W, Heatran, Rotom-H, Zapdos, and Mega Aerodactyl fall into this category, with Rotom-W and specially defensive Heatran straight up countering most of Talonflame's sets. However, Heatran loses to Bulk Up Talonflame with Taunt and might fail to beat Swords Dance variants, but it can carry a Rock-type move to beat them. Also, while Zapdos does not resist Flare Blitz, it can avoid a 2HKO thanks to its good bulk as long as Stealth Rock is not on its side of the field and Talonflame isn't holding a Choice Band. Out of all the Tyranitar sets, only the tank set can repeatedly switch into Talonflame, as all other variants are worn down quickly by U-turn. If Tyranitar lacks a Rock-type attack, it will lose to the Bulk Up set, and will be crippled heavily by Will-O-Wisp. Although Choice Band Tyranitar cannot switch into Talonflame easily in fear of U-turn, Tyranitar can easily Pursuit trap it after it KOes something with Brave Bird or Flare Blitz. In general, any Pokemon that is weak to U-turn or lacks reliable recovery might fail to deal with Talonflame after repeated U-turn hits, and physical attackers are heavily crippled by Will-O-Wisp.

**Passive Damage**: Stealth Rock is Talonflame's biggest enemy. As long as you manage to keep Stealth Rock on the field, you have managed to keep Talonflame in check. Additionally, because both of Talonflame's STAB moves induce recoil damage, forcing Talonflame to KO or weaken itself is another way to deal with it. The best way to do this is with Rocky Helmet Garchomp, which between a high HP stat, Rough Skin, and its item, causes Talonflame to take tons of recoil damage when it attacks. The fact that Garchomp has enough bulk to take a couple of hits from Talonflame helps too. Ferrothorn, especially with Rocky Helmet, is another Pokemon that can almost KO Talonflame through passive damage alone, though it must sacrifice itself to do so.
 
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alexwolf

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The utility set is not there to stay 100%, just wanting to get opinions on it. The EV spread on it is not anything sure either.
 
I think on the utility set, at least slash Tailwind in somewhere for when you're about to die. That's utility right there. Plus, it's incredibly helpful with things like Haxorus or Dragonite who have initially low speed, aiding them sweep.
 
Is a set like

Talonflame @skyplate
252 atk, 48 hp, 208 spd
Flare blitz
U turn
Brave bird
Roost

Viable? It's not its best set, but having roost can be invaluable. Also, it bluffs the cb nicely, and with a sky plate it still hits hard. While defog is nice, it's not always gonna be there, and cb talonflame is useless with rocks.

Also, I would say jolly is viable. (Especially on cb) The main reason is thundurus I, which unfortunately outspeeds
Adamant talonflame by 2 points.this means you can flare blitz before they thunderbolt, and brave bird weakened ones (I think it can 2hko on the switch) before they twave.

Finally, toxic in think should be slashed on the cb set, as it is the best for rotoms (although u turn is probBly better)
Hope I helped:)
 
I'm not exactly sure how effective the utility set is - it's essentially outclassed by other 'mons, e.g. Sableye, Mew etc when it comes to stall breaking with Will-o-Wisp + Taunt, and Brave Bird is a fairly weak revenge killing tool without any investment or a boosting item.

Though slightly gimmicky, perhaps consider mentioning Salac Berry + Natural Gift in OO, or possibly even in the set comments of the SD set? This gives Talonflame a 100 BP Fighting attack which it can use to nab a surprise KO on Tyranitar and Heatran after an SD. Liechi Berry is also an option, which provides a 100 BP Grass attack to hurt Rotom-W whilst still taking a decent chunk out of Tyranitar at +2.

+2 252+ Atk Salac Berry Talonflame Natural Gift (100 BP Fighting) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 644-760 (159.4 - 188.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Salac Berry Talonflame Natural Gift (100 BP Fighting) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Heatran: 328-388 (85.1 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Liechi Berry Talonflame Natural Gift (100 BP Grass) vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Rotom-W: 244-288 (80.5 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Liechi Berry Talonflame Natural Gift (100 BP Grass) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 322-380 (79.7 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Durin Berry Talonflame Natural Gift (100 BP Water) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-H: 240-284 (79.2 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Apicot Berry Talonflame Natural Gift (100 BP Ground) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Ampharos: 336-396 (87.5 - 103.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

EDIT: Durin Berry and Apicot Berry are also options, providing 100 BP Water and Ground attacks respectively. Water takes care of Tyranitar, Heatran and the increasingly popular Rotom-H, whereas Ground deals with the former two plus Mega Ampharos. Now that I think about it, Natural Gift is a seriously amazing option on Talonflame. Although you lack the benefits of another item by using a berry, being able to potentially KO a counter could clear the way for a sweep. It might even deserve its own set, given how basically any potential Talonflame counter can be beaten with the appropriate berry + Natural Gift after an SD.
 
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Colonel M

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Bulk Up should be Taunt > Substitute > Will-O-Wisp with Taunt and Substitute being interchangeable. Will-O-Wisp should arguably take the lowest priority and drop to AC.

Taunt is pretty pivotal to the set because it prevents a few things more than Substitute does:

1) It prevents Pokemon from phazing you out with Roar / Whirlwind (much more common than Dragon Tail, though I do admit Substitute stops it).
2) You can prevent Stealth Rock from entering the field, allowing Talonflame to be more utility until lategame.
3) Preventing the opponent from recovery, thus you can actually beat some threats such as Skarmory 1v1. Though it is hard.

Also Will-O-Wisp does not stop other dangerous things such as status (Thunder Wave and Toxic) which can really hamper Talonflame's capability of setting up. I feel these moves are way too pivotal to be ignored for Will-O-Wisp, which does help soften some counters but invite others to be more painful (Heatran for example).
 

alexwolf

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Ok Colonel M, order changed.

Also, i could put more Atk to the utility set to distinguish it more than Taunt + WoW stallbreakers such as Mew and Sableye.

DarkBlazeR i have Natural Gift on my mind don't worry, it will get at least an AC mention.
 

ginganinja

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Hey alexwolf, can you explain to me the main draws of the Utility set. Priority Roost and Brave Bird (I guess), are really nice, but sableye for instance gets Priority Recover and WoW, as well as Taunt (letting it hypothetically out-taunt Deoxys-S), and isn't quad weak to Stealth Rock (and can also act as a pretty good spinblocker). Priority Brave Bird is the one thing you have over it, which is rendered moot since the actual set is based around stallbreaking (and generally walling / tanking hits), so you don't get amazing use out of it either (plus the recoil is frustrating on a defensive set). As the set stands, it doesn't really differentiate itself from Sableye ergo I prolly couldn't approve it, unless you can explain its differences (and hopefully its advantages) over Sableye.
 

Punchshroom

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I'll have to side with ginganinja here; the Bulk Up + Taunt set actually has greater stallbreaking power due to its ability to boost, and doesn't need to burn its foes. Getting chip damage on stuff like Rotom-W and Tyranitar is nice, but you still need teammates to deal with them, and if those two are gone / crippled enough, Bulk Up Talon dismantles stall better than Will-O-Wisp Talon (which is the only real difference between the two).

Spread burns with something that does it best / doesn't have anything better it can do, really.
 

Super Mario Bro

All we ever look for
I think that Jolly is worth mentioning now because it allows Talonflame to revenge kill Thundurus with Flare Blitz.

It's such a shame that max Speed Adamant outslows him by 2 points. :(
 

truedrew

Banned deucer.
Ok so an unusual set that I have run into quite often is a mixed talonflame utilizing is a life orb mixed sweeper with the following moves
Talonflame
Ability: Gale Wings
Life Orb
Evs: 128 speed, 128 Attack and 252 Sp. Attack
Nature: Naive(+Speed -Defense)
Moves
-Overheat\Flame thrower\ Fire Blast
-Brave Bird
-Roost
-Substitute/Will-O-Wisp/Steel Wing?!

The main aim of this set i assume is to run a bit like mixed ape. It relies on hazards and high power moves to out damage checks while roost gives it some sustainability. Since i've not personally used this set I don't how good it is but when i faced it it got me by surprised and i lost 1-2 mons to it. I know that its not that good but its just a little something different i think can add to the surprise factor of talonflame.
 
I think that Jolly is worth mentioning now because it allows Talonflame to revenge kill Thundurus with Flare Blitz.

It's such a shame that max Speed Adamant outslows him by 2 points. :(
Jolly with 144 or more speed investment also outspeeds Mega Lucario which can then be OHKO'ed with Flare Blitz with an Attack investment of 128 or more
 

alexwolf

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Finished with the skeleton of most of this thing; will be done with BU in the next few hours too. Removed the Utility set for now as i didn't have time to playtest with it and it didn't receive any positive comments, so i put it to OO for now.

I don't know if my Usage Tips are good (some may be too obvious) so i could use some help there... Also, let me know if there is anything wrong with any move or spread on the sets.

Also, i decided to just mention an all-out attacking set with U-turn and Roost in the set comments of the CB set, as they play similarly and have only one move difference.
 

alexwolf

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The BU set has also been written. This is ready for QC checks.

Also, i currently have Natural Gift + Liechi / Salac in OO, does anyone think they deserve to be in set comments?
 

Jukain

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you might wanna mention that talonflame is kind of abysmal on the defensive side of things; resisted attacks can even 2hko. basically, you revenge kill with it or play a bit carefully such that it actually stays alive for a substantial amount of the battle.
 

Punchshroom

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you might wanna mention that talonflame is kind of abysmal on the defensive side of things; resisted attacks can even 2hko. basically, you revenge kill with it or play a bit carefully such that it actually stays alive for a substantial amount of the battle.
Actually, that is only true for offensive Talons, the Bulk Up set can take a surprising amount of (non-SE) punishment.
 
you might wanna mention that talonflame is kind of abysmal on the defensive side of things; resisted attacks can even 2hko. basically, you revenge kill with it or play a bit carefully such that it actually stays alive for a substantial amount of the battle.
Actually, that is only true for offensive Talons, the Bulk Up set can take a surprising amount of (non-SE) punishment.
4 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 248 HP / 184+ SpD Talonflame: 168-200 (46.7 - 55.7%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 184+ SpD Talonflame: 165-196 (45.9 - 54.5%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 184+ SpD Talonflame: 192-228 (53.4 - 63.5%) -- Can be stalled out with Roost assuming no hax
0 SpA Tentacruel Scald vs. 248 HP / 184+ SpD Talonflame: 140-168 (38.9 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Can I just say how impressed I am with that set? I wish I could see my opponent's face when their Tentacruel doesn't 2HKO my BU Talon.

Also if you can get enough Bulk Ups...(the following calcs are not realistic)

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Rock Slide vs. +4 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 164-196 (45.6 - 54.5%) -- 5.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. +5 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 168-200 (46.7 - 55.7%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

That is what we call "bulk".
 

Colonel M

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Spoiler alert - you're doing it wrong if you're setting up on Water-types.

Think Scizor, Heatran without HP Rock, etc.

I mean do I have to explain the possible bloody obvious times BU Talonflame sets up and when it should Taunt / avoid threats!?! Of course you're going to take hefty damage from Rock Slide...
 
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for moveslot 4 on the CB set, would Sleep Talk merit a slash?
Talonflame is probably one of the few reliable answers to a mega venusaur and if the switch-in is predicted, mega venusaur can shut down talonflame with sleep powder (although now that I think about it Sludge Bomb from 4 SpA ev does 50%). with sleeptalk, talonflame can still remain a viable threat towards mega venusaur throughout the match until it wakes up
 
for moveslot 4 on the CB set, would Sleep Talk merit a slash?
Talonflame is probably one of the few reliable answers to a mega venusaur and if the switch-in is predicted, mega venusaur can shut down talonflame with sleep powder (although now that I think about it Sludge Bomb from 4 SpA ev does 50%). with sleeptalk, talonflame can still remain a viable threat towards mega venusaur throughout the match until it wakes up
See but the thing is, if your Talonflame is asleep, you instantly lose out on the best revenge killer in the game, because you no longer have access to that priority Brave Bird. That's the only reason why putting your Talonflame to sleep is one of the worst options you can do in competitive play, you're better off sleeping something else or carrying something immune to it.
 

Jukain

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I wasn't addressing BU -- sorry that I didn't clarify. I meant the standard sets.

Also, when you talk about Flare Blitz, mention how cool it is for Bisharp and OHKOing Genesect/Mega Lucario. You say Steels/Electrics, but those three specifically stick out as important targets.

It also might be worth mentioning WoW's effectiveness on Rotom-W. It really wears on its ability to check Talonflame. You may also want to mention how it screws up PH Gliscor and Landorus-T. Pretty much any Steel that might switch into BB/bulky Pokemon that isn't Fire-type is crippled by WoW. Those are compelling reasons to use it. You just kinda mention 'its common checks' and leave it at that. It's a really weird move to run on a Choice Band set of all things, so being a little more specific is pretty necessary.
 

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