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Tangela [DONE]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Kingler12345, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    [Overview]

    <p>Tangela is a good defensive Pokemon in NU, with Eviolite to bolster its already good defenses, a high Defense stat allowing it to wall most threats, and Regenerator to make up for its lack of Leftovers recovery. A decorated support movepool including Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, Knock Off, and Synthesis allows it to do more than just sit around and tank hits. Tangela also has good Special Attack and access to Sleep Powder, both of which keep it from becoming setup fodder and allow it to run a more offensive set; Sleep Powder also means that threats that would otherwise switch in for free, such as Mandibuzz, can be incapacitated, after which Tangela can switch to an appropriate teammate. However, Tangela's typing tends to hold it back a bit; having weaknesses to common Fire- and Flying-type attacks is a huge downfall and force it to rely on its bulk alone to take on a good number of attackers. Tangela's poor special bulk is a huge problem for it, meaning that most powerful special attackers can destroy it, severely limiting its walling potential. Meanwhile, its good movepool still misses out on some great support moves, such as Will-O-Wisp, Heal Bell, Taunt, and Baton Pass, making Misdreavus and Musharna better alternatives for many teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Giga Drain
    move 2: Leech Seed / Synthesis
    move 3: Sleep Powder
    move 4: Hidden Power Rock / Stun Spore
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Regenerator
    evs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 124 SpD
    nature: Bold

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Tangela's great physical bulk lets it take on a large number of physically oriented threats such as Kangaskhan and Torterra with ease. Giga Drain is easily Tangela's most important move and provides a strong, consistent STAB move and lets it regain lost health. Leech Seed is the primary option for the second slot and provides Tangela with a form of passive damage, which is especially important against bulkier foes. However, Synthesis is an option as it provides reliable recovery and lets Tangela check physical attackers more consistently while staying in. Sleep Powder lets Tangela incapacitate switch-ins that would otherwise force Tangela out, such as Mandibuzz and Braviary. Hidden Power Rock lets Tangela hit irritating Flying- and Fire-types such as Swellow, Braviary, and Charizard hard, but Stun Spore is a viable option as well and gives Tangela a secondary way to cripple opponents after Sleep Clause has been activated.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread maximizes Tangela's physical bulk while the Special Defense investment allows it to survive Life Orb Ludicolo's Ice Beam after Stealth Rock. More investment in Speed is viable to let Tangela outspeed Alomomola and Golurk, but the defensive investment is invaluable for it, making said Speed investment not worth it most of the time. Hidden Power Ice and Hidden Power Fire are viable options for a Hidden Power type, but Hidden Power Rock generally has better coverage overall. Knock Off lets Tangela be an annoyance to Pokemon that rely on their items to be effective (especially Eviolite users), but the given moves are usually more important. If dealing with Ludicolo isn't important for your team, a spread of 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD should be used. Partners that deal with Substitute + Bulk Up Braviary and Fire-types are appreciated, Regirock being a stellar example. Lickilicky is a great partner for Tangela as it can wall special threats that trouble Tangela, but keep in mind that this core is vulnerable to strong physically based Fire- and Flying-type attackers. Choice Band Golurk can deal with Fire-types and can do a number to the opponent's team with the paralysis support Tangela provides if it chooses to run Stun Spore. Water-types such as Samurott can deal with Fire-types such as Charizard, making them good partners as well.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Leaf Storm
    move 2: Sleep Powder
    move 3: Hidden Power Rock
    move 4: Giga Drain / Synthesis
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Regenerator
    evs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
    nature: Modest

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Tangela is primarily seen as a tank that relies on its Defense to wall various threats, an offensive set is just as viable due to Tangela's great Special Attack. This set lets Tangela hit opponents hard while still being able to deal with physical threats, albeit less effectively due to less investment in physical bulk. Leaf Storm is Tangela's main STAB move and works wonderfully with Regenerator as it will be switching out often. Sleep Powder lets Tangela incapacitate switch-ins and deters its checks and counters from coming in for free against it. Hidden Power Rock hits many important targets such as Braviary and Charizard that would otherwise give this set hell. Giga Drain is the primary option in the fourth slot as it provides a consistent STAB move that doesn't require Tangela to switch out and provides a somewhat reliable form of recovery. Synthesis is a more consistent form of recovery but is generally an inferior option as reliable recovery is not a concern for this set.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs let Tangela hit as hard as possible and outspeed Alomomola and Golurk. Sludge Bomb is an option to hit Grass-types harder, but Roselia and Vileplume take only neutral damage from it. Hidden Power Ice and Hidden Power Fire are viable options to hit threats which Hidden Power Rock misses out on, such as Dragon- and Steel-types, respectively. While this set covers physical threats fairly well, Misdreavus provides another check to physical attackers and covers Fighting-types that can break through this set, making it a good partner. Psychic-types such as Gardevoir and Duosion as well as Ground-types such as Golurk can deal with Poison-types, making them great partners as well. Water- and Rock-types are good partners as they can deal with Fire-types.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A set utilizing Sunny Day + SolarBeam can be used, but is utterly outclassed by Exeggutor and Shiftry. A Life Orb can be used on the offensive set, but Tangela really needs the increased bulk from Eviolite. Physical sets and sets with Choice Specs can work but are gimmicky and shouldn't be used. Toxic can cripple switch-ins but Sleep Powder and Stun Spore are generally more useful. Protect eases prediction and helps Tangela scout for moves, but does nothing much for Tangela specifically. Leaf Storm in conjunction with Power Swap is a gimmicky strategy and should never be used.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Flying-types such as Mandibuzz, Rotom-S, and most variants of Braviary are great counters to Tangela and have enough bulk to take a Hidden Power Rock. While Charizard can threaten Tangela with its STABs, it is 4x weak to Stealth Rock, making it a shaky check. LumRest Exeggutor can switch in on Sleep Powder due to Lum Berry, resists Tangela's STAB, and can hit it hard with Psychic. Sap Sipper Pokemon such as Miltank and Sawsbuck can hard wall Tangela and set up on it. Poison-types such as Roselia and Garbodor can force Tangela out and set up Toxic Spikes on it. Lastly, Vital Spirit Magmar and RestTalk Flareon are rare counters but very effective due to not being affected by Sleep Powder.</p>
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2014 at 11:29 PM
  2. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    I think Stun Spore should be slashed with Leech Seed and Knock Off in AC for the defensive set. Stun Spore is good for teams that enjoy paralysis support and do not need support from Leech Seed as much. Meanwhile Knock Off is a cool move. I also think HP Rock > HP Ice because then you're not completely vulnerable to Scolipede if you already used Sleep Powder on something else or want to save it for something else. Also, I think the 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD should be included in AC for teams that can already deal with Ludi.

    Not QC, two cents etc etc.
  3. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    thanks a bunch, implemented! really would appreciate qc comments on hp rock; that's what should be there IMO so yeah
  4. Soulgazer

    Soulgazer
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    Hidden Power Rock everywhere Kingler12345 and HP Ice/Fire in AC. (for both sets}
  5. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast mfw 502 bad gateway
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    ^what soul said.

    Also for the offensive set I think it should use a spread of 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe to outspeed Alomomola before it can Toxic you or w/e. Also Synthesis should be in AC because the reliability of Giga is way too good to pass up.

    Stun Spore sounds like it could be a decent option for the defensive set, probably slashed with either Leech Seed or HP, but Tangela kinda has 4MSS so idk.
  6. FLCL

    FLCL
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    -synthesis should be in the set comments for the first set as well as it is a good option so tangela is not forced to switch out as often against certain physical attackers in order to heal up.
    -another option for the offensive set in the last slot is sludge bomb which lets it hit other grass types
  7. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    kk done all of that
    probs doing oo and c&c later >_>
    edit-dun
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  8. Soulgazer

    Soulgazer
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    Tangela's current Overview is alright Kingler12345 , Treecko wrote it one month ago.


    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Giga Drain
    move 2: Leech Seed / Synthesis
    move 3: Sleep Powder
    move 4: Hidden Power Rock / Stun Spore
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Regenerator
    evs: 248 HP / 136 Def / 124 SpD
    Bold Nature

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (goes for both AC)

    ?????????????????????? why Heal Bell support, why CB Sawk is mentionned everywhere? Tangela can easily take one hit from Sawk and switch out or stay in according to the move Sawk is locked into. I would really like to know why you added those (especially since you mention its bulk let it handle Sawk in the Overview Oo).

    [Other Options]

    Remove the Sludge Bomb mention.

    Add physical sets / Choice Specs maybe?


    I will check back later!
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  9. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    Soulgazer
    clarified, and did the stuff
    qc plz thanks
  10. FLCL

    FLCL
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    remove special walls as partners for the offensive set since if you're better off trying to form a core with the defensive set. partners that deal with grass and poison types should take priority over the ones you listed since fire-types can be hit by hidden power rock
  11. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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  12. Soulgazer

    Soulgazer
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    [Checks and Counters]

    Just want to remind you that Braviary isn't the only Flying-type in NU :) (Swellow, Rotom-S, Drifblim, Charizard, etc)

    Also add Poison-types.


    [​IMG]
    QC 1/3 Kingler12345
  13. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast mfw 502 bad gateway
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    [Overview]
    • I don't really like the wording of the first bullet. I'd rather say its great physical bulk lets it serve as a good pivot switch into physical attackers, where it can switch out, Regenerate, and bring in a better matchup. Also no mention of Regenerator? It's like the best part about Tangela!
    • Remove the fourth point since it's basically already been covered.
    • You need to list more negatives, such as: its poor special bulk and weakness to a shitton of common threats (ex. Zard, Jynx, Pede). Competition isn't the only reason Tangela isn't on every team.
    [SET COMMENTS] (Tank)
    • On the Synthesis mention, don't say that "Tangela being a rain check" makes Synthesis worse than Leech Seed, since a) Giga Drain destroys like every rain sweeper anyway, and b) the one sweeper it doesn't OHKO (Ludicolo) is immune to Leech Seed. Just say that the passive damage from Leech Seed + ability to support its teammates is often better.
    [Other Options]
    • Power Swap + Leaf Storm here, gimmicky but so hilarious :)
    Implement pls Kingler12345 , and I'll check again later
  14. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    Id add Substitute to AC of the first set since it does cause a lot of switches, making SubSeed effective. Also, add Steel-types as checks to c&c since Tangela can't touch them aside from status.
    Actually, aside from the Sap Sipper mons, LumRest Eggy, and Roselia (since it has natural cure), nothing else counters Tangela since they are crippled by status. Just try to clarify which check and which counter Tangela better. :)
  15. Soulgazer

    Soulgazer
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    Substitute is OO at best in my opinion. Tangela already has 4MSS and Substitute doesn't give as much utility as its other moves, but I won't stop it from going in AC if everyone else think it deserves a AC mention.
    Lolk likes this.
  16. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast mfw 502 bad gateway
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    Yeah SubSeed isn't really AC material, though it's definitely worth a mention so I'd put that in OO. Tangela's main role is a pivot, so using Sub kind of clashes with that since it forces you to stay in. Plus you can't do shit to Grass-types anyway.

    2/3 Write it Kingler12345
  17. FLCL

    FLCL
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    where is the overview
  18. Lasagne

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    nvm
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
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  19. Soulgazer

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    Kingler12345 You have to c/p the current overview that is onsite in the OP too.

    Also fix your paragraph, some of them are randomly cut off at the middle lol

    Don't forget to mention at the top that Treecko wrote the overview, and not you
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
  20. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    I have absolutely no idea what happened there, the editing system totally fucked up for me :/ sorry ;__;
    anyway, FLCL and Lasagne21 now you can qc this n____n
  21. Soulgazer

    Soulgazer
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    I know I already qced this, but I have some comments.

    AC of physically defensive.


    Mention Regirock at least.

    Also, you talk a lot more about strong fighting-types than Flying- or Fire-types while:

    with 252 evs in def:
    252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 136-162 (40.84 - 48.64%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    with 136 evs in def:
    252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 150-177 (45.04 - 53.15%) -- 28.91% chance to 2HKO

    and

    252 Atk Choice Band Primeape Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 121-144 (36.33 - 43.24%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    252+ Atk Iron Fist Gurdurr Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 90-106 (27.02 - 31.83%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

    +1 252+ Atk Gurdurr Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 84-99 (25.22 - 29.72%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

    Right now, when I read your paragraph all I remember from it is that Tangela can't deal with those Fighting-type. True fact is that Tangel CAN deal with them. You avoid the 2HKO from Sawk with 252 evs; mention it. Hell, Tangela can also easily take the hit if it came in safely and cripple Sawk with Sleep Powder, then regain its health later with Regenerator. Gurdurr is at +1 or +2, will it ruin Tangela's day? No. Tangela can easily take a hit, outspeed in the following turn, and use Sleep Powder. Primeape? It can't 2HKO Tangela even with Choice Band and is quite frail. Tangela takes ~30% from CB U-Turn: is the end of the world? No, since Tangela can heal all of that with Regenerator. The worst part is that I told you multiple time that Tangela doesn't have much problem with Fighting-types, and that if it does it's only with Sawk when entry hazards are up or the obscure Throh.

    /rant

    To be honest, if I were you I would rewrite the whole partner-part of the paragraph Kingler12345
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2013
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  22. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    sorry for that soul changed that up
  23. FLCL

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    "However, Tangela's typing tends to hold it back a bit; weaknesses to common Ice-, Bug-, and Flying-type attacks is a huge downfall and force it to rely on its bulk alone to take on a good number of attackers."

    i don't think tangela's typing is a problem for it tbh. change this to mention it's low spdef instead

    "Tangela's great physical bulk lets it take on a large number of physically oriented threats such as Swords Dance Samurott and Kangaskhan easily."

    adamant sd rott has a chance to ohko after stealth rocks with megahorn so i'd use another example of a physical attacker like tauros or torterra
  24. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
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    FLCL
    I believe i calced it and even after rocks sd rott only has like a 50% chance to OHKO after rocks with lo so i think it's a good example
    ofc i could change it up so ill do that
    typing part: i wasnt supposed to change the overview treecko wrote at all(but ill do that if qc thinks so)
  25. FLCL

    FLCL
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    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Samurott Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 296-351 (88.88 - 105.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

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