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Tangela (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by VN., Jan 18, 2012.

  1. VN.

    VN. im african and you know i got hyenus
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    [Overview]

    <p>The NU tier has no shortage of powerful physical threats, but luckily there's Tangela to fend them all off. Thanks to Eviolite, Tangela receives a boost to its already excellent Defense stat, allowing it to endlessly tank physical attacks. In addition to this, Tangela receives an excellent ability in Regenerator, which allows it to recover the damage it took upon switching out. While it lacks any form of phazing, Tangela is by no means setup bait; it's able to temporarily cripple a Pokemon with Sleep Powder while sapping its health via Leech Seed. Tangela can also hit a great number of Pokemon for decent damage with Giga Drain and its Hidden Power thanks to its Base 100 Special Attack, which shouldn't be underestimated.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Giga Drain
    move 2: Sleep Powder
    move 3: Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Leech Seed / Knock Off
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This Tangela's standard set, the same set that has pestered physical attackers ad infinitum. Regenerator is crux of this set, as Tangela is able to constantly switch in and out, healing whatever damage it took; seeming nearly immortal to the opponent. Giga Drain is Tangela's main STAB move, and proves surprisingly effective both damage-dealing and healing-wise, while Tangela can adjust its Hidden Power type to hit additional threats for super effective damage. Hidden Power Rock holds the benefit of hurting Bug- and Flying-types, as well as the ever-so-threatening Magmortar and his Fire-type kin. Hidden Power Ice, on the other hand, can Flying- and Grass-types super effectively while also giving Tangela a solid option to deal with powerful Dragon-types such as Altaria and Zweilous. On the rare occasion that a Pokemon comes close to beating Tangela, it can temporarily quell them with Sleep Powder so that it can either finish them off or regain its lost health via Leech Seed, Giga Drain, or Regenerator. Knock Off is yet another effective option for this set, as the NU tier is full of both Eviolite and Choice item users, and stripping them of their item can prove quite beneficial.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>While Tangela is one of the best physical walls in the tier, it doesn't exactly counter every threat, although pairing it with Quagsire or Alomomola forms a combo that cannot be broken by nearly any physical attacker. Tangela also works well when paired with a dedicated special wall to take the attacks that it cannot; Lickilicky and Hypno are two excellent examples of special walls to accompany Tangela. Tangela also loves support from Toxic Spikes; not only do they hasten the end of a Pokemon Tangela is trying to wall, Toxic Spikes are very effective in getting rid of Pokemon that can reliably switch in on Tangela, such as Magmortar and Camerupt. Toxic itself on Tangela is also a decent choice over Leech Seed or Knock Off, as it can facilitate Tangela's ability to prevent a Pokemon from sweeping and allow Tangela to stall it out quicker than it would with just Leech Seed. Stun Spore is yet another status-inflicting alternative for Tangela, and is very effective when combined with Leech Seed, and most Pokemon become easy for Tangela's teammates to revenge kill after their Speed has been halved.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Tangela can also run a specially defensive set to take special hits better, while still retaining most of its physical bulk. This set is capable of taking most neutral unboosted special hits and super effective special attacks from weaker attackers, allowing Tangela to function as somewhat of a mixed wall. One could opt to give Tangela an EV spread of 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD; while it would lose out on some physical bulk, it gains the benefit of avoiding OHKOs from 252 SpA Timid Butterfree's Bug Buzz and max SpA Rotom-S's Air Slash. Thanks to its great bulk and access to Hidden Power Ice to hurt Grass-types, Tangela is also able to pull off a SubSeed set. Having Regenerator as an ability grants Tangela the liberty of constantly using Substitute, allowing it to get multiple opportunities to set up during a match.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>While Tangela is a fantastic defensive Pokemon, that's not to say it's without counters. Magmortar is probably one of the most reliable means of beating Tangela; being immune to Sleep Powder thanks to Vital Spirit, it only fears Hidden Power Rock and can score an immediate OHKO with Fire Blast. Swellow, Braviary, and Dodrio are among the few physical attackers which can break through Tangela; all are able to 2HKO with their super effective STAB coming off of their high Attack stats, whereas Tangela can't do much back, even with Hidden Power Ice or Rock. Any Pokemon with good special bulk and Toxic, such as Lickilicky or Audino, can emerge victorious against Tangela simply by stalling it out and taking next to nothing from its attacks. Jynx is yet another great counter for Tangela, as it can avoid any status-inducing moves with Substitute, easily set up Calm Mind or Nasty Plot, and decimate Tangela with a super effective STAB Ice Beam. Overall, most special attackers that carry a super effective attack are useful in beating Tangela, given its low Special Defense.</p>
  2. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Looks pretty good.

    [​IMG]
  3. Cereza

    Cereza Tastes Like Candy

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    Just pointing this out since I think it's supposed to be tangela.
  4. VN.

    VN. im african and you know i got hyenus
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    Oh yeah, thanks for catching that.
  5. Oglemi

    Oglemi gimme
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    What exactly are the EVs doing? You say that the 80 SpD EVs let it take some special attacks, but which ones are you talking about? If you can give me something specific that those EVs do I'll approve this
  6. Steamroll

    Steamroll Tasty
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    Not exactly like it's gonna live a Ice Beam from Jynx or anything. It has less than a 5% chance from full health, lol. (98.8% - 116.8%)

    Anyways, I really don't think Tangela is fit to take any special attacks, 65/40 special defense is just horrible, even with an eviolite (which max spdef and + nature only puts it on par with base 100's) it's probably going to take one or two hits but it will compromise tangela's effectiveness as a wall. 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp. Def is the way to go, at least it'll tank a Swellow Brave Bird (39.5% - 46.7%).
  7. tennisace

    tennisace
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    Agreeing with the above posts unless someone shows me calcs??
  8. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent
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    Is HP Fire such a good option? Probopass and Bastiodon are the only common Steel-types (I'm sure I'm missing something) and are neutral to Fire. Ground mabye seems like a better option?
  9. Steamroll

    Steamroll Tasty
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    here's a list of all the steels I've seen:
    -Probopass
    -Lairon
    -Bastiodon
    -Mawile*
    -Metang *
    -Wormadam-S*
    * indicates hit SE by HP fire.

    Being as Metang is the only one seen regularly in NU that's hit SE by HP fire I think you'd be better off with HP rock or hell even HP fighting... HP rock gets the birds and bugs, plus jynx and magmortar switchins while HP fighting nails those steels even better overall and also hits jynx neutrally, plus random rocks and normals in the tier.
  10. Nova

    Nova Palisades
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    I'd put the SpDef EVs into DEf and maybe slash Stun Spore with Sleep Powder?
  11. VN.

    VN. im african and you know i got hyenus
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    I did some calcs and the only one of interest was that 252 SpA Mesprit did 44.01%->52.1% with the EVs and always scored a 2HKO without them, so yeah, I'll change the EVs back.

    I was on the fence about HP Fire when I was writing it up, but it seems like a good idea to use HP Rock instead.
  12. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Yeah, I like HP Rock, especially that it hits the #1 Tangela switchin - Magmortar.

    Couple of references to RU and hail knocking around that you might want to remove.

    It's kind of silly EVing to not be 2HKOd by Mesprit, which easily sets up on you anyway. So yeah that definitely needed changing.
  13. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    First comment in overview says RU. I'd also mention Protect somewhere for Leech Seed stalling, whether it be in AC or OO.
  14. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Hidden Power Rock should be the first slash, it hits Fire-types in addition to the similar coverage provided by Hidden Power Ice. Obviously it misses out on other Grass-types, but it's not like Tangela can do anything to them anyway lol

    After that, it's:

    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  15. tennisace

    tennisace
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    [​IMG]

    ditto hp rock
  16. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    Magmortar can switch into Tangela, fearing only Toxic or Sleep Powder and threaten and OHKO with Fire Blast.

    ^ magmortar has vital spirit, making sleep powder useless
  17. Steamroll

    Steamroll Tasty
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    Oh BS, Tangela only does 35.9% - 42.7% to magmortar with HP rock. Whatever it still shortens magmortar's life to 2 switchins if rocks are up.
  18. sirndpt

    sirndpt
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    Show Hide


    [​IMG]

    1/2

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>The NU tier has no shortage of powerful physical threats, but luckily, there's Tangela to fend them all off. Thanks to Eviolite, Tangela receives a boost to its already excellent Defense stat, allowing it to endlessly tank physical attacks. In addition to this, Tangela receives an excellent ability in Regenerator, allowing it to recover some of its health upon switching out. While it lacks any form of phazing, Tangela is by no means setup bait; it's able to temporarily cripple a Pokemon with Sleep Powder while also sapping its health via Leech Seed. Tangela can also hit a great number of Pokemon for decent damage with Giga Drain and its Hidden Power of choice, thanks to its base 100 Special Attack, which shouldn't be underestimated.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Giga Drain
    move 2: Sleep Powder
    move 3: Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Leech Seed / Knock Off
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This is Tangela's standard set, the same set that pesters physical attackers ad infinitum. Regenerator is the crux of this set, as Tangela is able to constantly switch in and out, healing whatever damage it takes, and seeming nearly immortal to the opponent. Giga Drain is Tangela's main STAB and proves surprisingly effective both damage-dealing- and healing-wise, while Tangela can adjust its Hidden Power type to hit additional threats for super effective damage. Hidden Power Rock has the benefit of hurting Bug and Flying-types, as well as the ever-so-threatening Magmortar and his Fire-type kin. Hidden Power Ice, on the other hand, can hit Flying- and Grass-types super effectively, while also giving Tangela a solid option to deal with powerful Dragon-types, such as Altaria and Zweilous. On the rare occasion that a Pokemon comes close to beating Tangela, it can temporarily quell them with Sleep Powder and either finish them off, or else regain lost health via Leech Seed. Knock Off is yet another effective option for this set, as the NU tier is full of both Eviolite and Choice item users, and stripping them of their item can prove quite beneficial.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p><explain EV spread/ nature></p>

    <p>While Tangela is one of the best physical walls in the tier, it doesn't exactly counter every threat. Pairing it with Quagsire or Alomomola, however, forms a combo that is cannot be broken by nearly any physical attacker. Tangela also works well when paired with a dedicated special wall to take the attacks that it cannot; Lickilicky and Hypno are two excellent examples that can accompany Tangela. Tangela also loves support from Toxic Spikes; not only does Toxic poison hasten the end of a Pokemon Tangela is trying to wall, it is also very effective in getting rid of Pokemon that can reliably switch in on Tangela, such as Magmortar and Camerupt. Toxic itself on Tangela is also a decent choice over Leech Seed or Knock Off, as it can facilitate Tangela's ability to prevent a Pokemon from sweeping and allow it to stall said foe out more quickly than Leech Seed alone would. Stun Spore is yet another status alternative for Tangela, and is very effective combined with Leech Seed <why?>. Additionally, most foes become easy for Tangela's teammates to revenge kill after their Speed has been halved.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Tangela can also run a specially defensive set to take special hits better, while still retaining most of its physical bulk. This set is capable of taking most neutral unboosted special hits and super effective special attacks from weaker attackers, allowing Tangela to function as somewhat of a mixed wall. One could opt to give Tangela an EV spread of 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD; while it would lose out on some physical bulk, it gains the benefit of avoiding OHKOs from 252 SpA Timid Butterfree's Bug Buzz and max SpA Rotom-S's Air Slash. Thanks to its great bulk and access to Hidden Power Ice to hurt Grass-types, Tangela is also able to pull off a SubSeed set. Having Regenerator as an ability grants Tangela the liberty of constantly using Substitute, allowing it to get multiple opportunities to set up during a match.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>While Tangela is a fantastic defensive Pokemon, that's not to say it's without counters. Magmortar is probably one of the most reliable means of beating Tangela; being immune to Sleep Powder thanks to Vital Spirit, it only fears Hidden Power Rock and can score an immediate OHKO with Fire Blast. Swellow, Braviary, and Dodrio are among the few physical attackers which can break through Tangela; all are able to 2HKO with their super effective STAB coming off of their high Attack stats, whereas Tangela can't do much back, even with Hidden Power Ice or Rock. Any Pokemon with good special bulk and Toxic, such as Lickilicky or Audino, can emerge victorious against Tangela simply by stalling it out and taking next to nothing from its attacks. Jynx is yet another great counter for Tangela, as it can avoid any status-inducing moves with Substitute, easily set up Calm Mind or Nasty Plot, and decimate Tangela with a super effective STAB Ice Beam. Overall, most special attackers that carry a super effective attack are useful in beating Tangela, given its low Special Defense.</p>
  19. VN.

    VN. im african and you know i got hyenus
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    Implemented! Sirndpt, you are a hero for creating a copypastable version :)
  20. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    Second check incoming!
  21. November Blue

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    [​IMG]
    Tangela Analysis (open)


    Implement both GP checks and this is

    [​IMG]

    GP Approved 2/2
  22. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Hi, I use Tangela a ton; it's a great Pokemon. Part of the reason that makes it so great is Leech Seed, and as such I think the ordering of the set should be this:

    move 1: Giga Drain
    move 2: Sleep Powder
    move 3: Leech Seed
    move 4: Knock Off / Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Ice

    Let's face it, the two Hidden Power's don't really help Tangela check anything, only hurt things harder on the switch. Well, I guess HP Ice helps with Sub Torterra and certain Dragon-types, but that's about it! And don't you say Swellow; Tangela takes about 50% from Brave Bird then can Leech Seed Swellow. It gets some HP, Swellow loses some health from status and Leech Seed, then you can switch to Regirock or another Rock-type to heal Tangela back up to almost full health and the Rock-type will will heal a little bit itself.

    Leech Seed helps Tangela heal and a lot of the times it's the move you're "spamming". I find that often I just use Leech Seed for the switch-in and it works out well... provided the opponent doesn't have a Grass-type themselves and/or something like Sap Sipper Miltank.

    Knock Off crippling is always useful, and I've found it much more effective than Hidden Power which you really shouldn't be using very often. Knock Off is especially useful for stall teams to get past something like Lickilicky and balanced/offense teams who need, like, let's-say, CS Sawk's Choice Scarf removed.
  23. VN.

    VN. im african and you know i got hyenus
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    Implemented and I've talked with DTC; it will stay as is.
  24. tennisace

    tennisace
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