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Tangela (Offensive) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Amarillo, Feb 29, 2012.

  1. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    [​IMG]

    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Leaf Storm
    move 3: Hidden Power Rock
    move 4: Stun Spore / Sludge Bomb
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Modest
    evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA


    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Tangela deserves its title as the premier physical wall, but it is certainly underestimated in its offensive capabilities. Sacrificing Tangela's uncanny ability to laugh off physical hits, this set attempts to keep momentum with strong attacks and crippling status. Leaf Storm is a strong STAB attack, and turns Tangela from setup bait to a hit-and-run attacker. Regenerator and Leaf Storm is a match made in heaven, as Tangela can easily switch in on a physical attack, fire off a deadly attack, and switch out if necessary to recover its health. Sleep Powder is a great move to disable the few Pokemon that can take repeated Leaf Storms with ease. Hidden Power Rock gives coverage against Fire- and Flying-types. Of course, Hidden Power Ice is another alternative, but comes at the cost of being unable to hurt Magmortar as much. Tangela is rather lacking in offensive options, but Stun Spore is an excellent support move in an offensive metagame, crippling common switch-ins such as Jynx and Magmortar. Sludge Bomb is left as an option for hitting Exeggutor, another common Tangela switch-in, but it sees little use otherwise.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]


    <p>A Modest nature and maximum Special Attack investment give Tangela's attacks some much-needed power, while 248 HP EVs maximize the health gained by Regenerator. The remaining EVs are put into Defense for sponging physical attacks. Tangela has a surprisingly respectable base 60 Speed, and can even use a fully offensive set with Life Orb, a faster spread, or even both. However, note that such a decision will detract from Tangela's main draw over more destructive Grass-types such as Choice Specs Exeggutor: the ability to wall unboosted physical attackers. The loss of either Eviolite or HP investment will leave Tangela 2HKOed by prominent attackers such as Life Orb Tauros and Choice Scarf Sawk.</p>

    <p>Entry hazard support is always helpful, but this is especially so for Tangela. With Stealth Rock, Tangela has a chance of OHKOing Swellow and Jynx with Leaf Storm. Regirock can provide Stealth Rock, while countering the few physical attackers that Tangela cannot handle, such as Braviary and Swellow. Spikes are also helpful, as Sleep Powder is great for forcing switches. Garbodor is a great teammate for setting up Spikes, but Toxic Spikes will severely conflict with Tangela's status moves. Tangela is physically bulky, so Lickilicky can be helpful to sponge special attacks. In fact, this set can function in a more defensive team to give your team a better chance to win with your own offenses, but the physically defensive set will be generally better for such purposes in the long run. Swords Dance Samurott is another great teammate for resisting Fire- and Ice-type attacks and can make use of that opportunity to set up.</p>

    <p>Tangela is extremely good at spreading paralysis, and the ability to lure out deadly threats such as Jynx and Magmortar is priceless. Naturally, slow attackers such as Marowak appreciate Tangela slowing down the opposing team. Aside from these Pokemon, Substitute users such as Haunter can scout for a timely full paralysis with a safety net. Pokemon in an awkward Speed tier, such as Magmortar, also appreciate paralysis support. Not to mention, if Tangela can put the opposing special wall to sleep, you can rest assured that Magmortar can wreak havoc on the opposing team. Rock-types, Quagsire, and Alomomola are welcome signs for Tangela to switch in and pressure the opposing team. As a result, strong physical attackers such as Absol and Swellow pair up well with Tangela as they often attract the aforementioned Pokemon.</p>

    Show Hide

    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Leaf Storm
    move 3: Hidden Power Rock
    move 4: Stun Spore / Sludge Bomb
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Modest
    evs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe

    [Set Comments]



    • Leaf Storm is strong, and is in general much harder to switch into than the standard defensive Tangela
    • Works in the same premise as RU Offensive Tangrowth / Slowking
    • Leaf Storm + Regenerator is perfect combination of hit-and-run
    • Plays very differently from standard Tangela in that this aims to switch into weak physical attacks to fire off a deadly attack, as opposed to flat out walling them even with super effective physical STAB.
    • Great Lure for frail+offensive things that switch into Tangela
    • Leaf Storm has a bad habit of leaving things at ~30% but that’s where hazards come in handy
    • Maintains physical tankiness, still absorbs most physical hits with ease.
    • Sleep Powder is that good because very few things can repeatedly switch into Leaf Storm, so it's great to disable those counters.
    • Hidden Power for coverage: Rock is best for fliers + fires, but Ice hits Altaria + Fraxure, Fliers + Grassers at the cost of not doing as much vs. Magmortar
    • Because this set is geared towards more bulky offensive teams, Stun Spore is great for slowing opposition down. (Bulky offensive teams tend to be on the slow side). Paralysis is great to cripple offensive switch-ins to Tangela that might not die with one attack (namely Magmortar which avoids OHKO from HP Rock)
    • Sludge Bomb hits Exegg, Cacturne, and other grassers without Poison subtyping. It’s also Tangela’s highest Base Power attack other than its Grass STAB. Generally inferior, but Eggy is that good.

    [Additional Comments]
    • Not as tanky as Physically Defensive Tangela, so don’t switch it in on a Swellow Brave Bird or something stupid like that
    • Hazards are appreciated at the very least, and SR is a must. Without SR, it has a lot harder time Vs. Magmortar and Swellow.
    • Rather Slow and Specially frail, so a special tank is a good teammate
    • Lickilicky?
    • EVs are for maximum special attack and maximum bulk, 248 HP EVs are for regenerator number (and shhhh speed creep)
    • Faster Spread? It has a respectable 60 base speed, which allows it to outspeed benchmarks near Adamant Max speed Torterra, not to mention the condensed speed tier around modest Gorebyss.
    • Other items such as Life Orb / Choice Specs for making it hit a lot harder, but specs would make Stun Spore a really poor option.
    • Resistances to Fire- and Ice-type attacks are good: SD Samurott
    • Can function in a more stallish team to give your team a chance to win on your own, but generally a defensive set is better in the long run
    • Outspeeds and OHKOs rock types, so normal types are good to lure them out, and you'll get to hit the switch-in hard.
  2. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Mention a faster spread in the AC. I might actually make the faster spread the main one. I got wrecked by a fast offensive variant of tangela awhile back. Also mention Life Orb. I'm not too sure which EV spread/item should be the main one, but I'm leaning towards the faster one for the main spread. I'll talk it over with other QC ppl and get back to you on that.
  3. col49

    col49 unpolished
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    just my two cents, but the max speed i'd toss in is 212 evs. this allows him to get the jump on min speed rotom-s, and everything below it (notably modest gorebyss, luvdisc2, min speed altaria, natu?, etc.). stuff like torterra seem really sorta trivial, cuz nobody really stays in on tangela with it anyway. as for life orb, i really think that'd be ac at best, he really needs to the bulk imo.
  4. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    Well, to be honest, if you're hitting minimum Rotom-S mark, you might as well go for Modest max speed Exeggutor, which is just 1 speed higher. Of course, that's the base 55, which includes quite a mons. Though most of them are uncommon, 1 less HP isn't going to cost you much.

    Probably Eviolite would go with the heavy HP investment: the loss of defensive EV means that Tangela depends heavily on both the HP investment and Eviolite. Tangela loses a lot of bulk by not investing in either one of them. Life Orb would most likely go with the faster spread, though I worry that Tangela would be too frail to the point of unusability.
  5. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    I disagree with Life Orb, Eviolite really helps this set and imo it already hits hard enough. It can't even check nearly as many threats as before without Eviolite, and the LO recoil is annoying.

    Here are some calcs proving LO is a lot less useful than Eviolite:

    2 Defensive Calcs (open)
    252Atk Mold Breaker Sawk (Neutral) Close Combat vs 248HP/0Def Tangela (Neutral): 50% - 60% (169 - 201 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252Atk Mold Breaker Sawk (Neutral) Close Combat vs 248HP/0Def Eviolite Tangela (Neutral): 34% - 40% (114 - 135 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

    252Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros (Neutral) Rock Climb vs 248HP/0Def Tangela (Neutral): 55% - 65% (184 - 217 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros (Neutral) Rock Climb vs 248HP/0Def Eviolite Tangela (Neutral): 36% - 43% (121 - 145 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.


    2 Offensive calcs (open)


    252SpAtk Life Orb Tangela (+SAtk) Hidden Power (Rock) vs 0HP/4SpDef Magmortar (Neutral): 64% - 76% (188 - 222 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252SpAtk Tangela (+SAtk) Hidden Power (Rock) vs 0HP/4SpDef Magmortar (Neutral): 50% - 59% (146 - 172 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252SpAtk Tangela (+SAtk) Leaf Storm vs 0HP/4SpDef Swellow (Neutral): 68% - 81% (180 - 212 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252SpAtk Life Orb Tangela (+SAtk) Leaf Storm vs 0HP/4SpDef Swellow (Neutral): 89% - 105% (234 - 275 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 34% chance to OHKO.


    Yeah, that isn't that many examples, but it still shows the point. While the extra damage is nice, it's not that much, and honestly the bulk is really appreciated as Tangela can't check that much without it (note: the defensive calcs for Life Orb also included 248 HP EV's)... I'd use Exeggutor or even Victreebell if I wanted a powerful offensive grass. Tangela is just a bit too slow and you're wasting its potential by giving it Life Orb.

    Also, I don't know why you really want to give it more speed (@Omicron)... It's not meant to be fast; it's supposed to be a decent tank that can spread paralysis around. I guess it would be good in AC, but the extra bulk is really helpful. Plus, you outspeed stuff after paralysis anyways.

    Anyways, the skeleton looks good imo, when I tested out Tangela I wasn't impressed with Sludge Bomb. It really didn't hit much and Stun Spore was just a lot more useful. I think it should go to AC, but I'll let QC decide on that. I'm glad you found out this set and thanks Pearl. for the idea of using Stun Spore > Sludge Bomb on it. I want to see more people using this set! :)

    Edit: One other thing, maybe stress the fact that it lures stuff in more? Pokemon such as Magmortar who are usually a free switch-in to Tangela HATE getting hit by Stun Spore!
  6. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    I completely agree with DTC. Tangela's attractiveness is a) the paralysis thing but mainly b) even though it is offensive, it walls stuff and that's why you're using it over the much, much, much more powerful / threatening Exeggutor (and other competition such as Torterra / Cacturne / Victreebel).
  7. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Deslash Sludge Bomb and relegate it to the AC.

    QC APPROVED (1/3)

    As for my reasoning behind the faster spread, outspeeding base 50's is pretty fun, mostly trolling-wise, but the main spread listed is fine.
  8. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    I don't think Sludge Bomb should be deslashed, actually, if only because Exeggutor is really, really scary.
  9. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken neca eos omnes, deus suos agnoscet
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    Agreeing with Ice-eyes. Emphasize the paralysis and ability to lure and deal with its counters fairly well in the write-up, as well as the fact that Sludge Bomb is more or less purely for Exeggutor (and to a lesser extent, Cacturne). You can mention the faster spread in AC, but it's not like you're missing much by not including it either.

    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  10. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Not losing to Leafeon is also a fairly major plus.

    QC APPROVED (3/3)
  11. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    Woah, everything's all cleaned up!

    Well, I'm back from my break, but I'm sorry to say this will be delayed quite a while... I had it almost finished, but my computer crashed, etc. and it seems like I won't be able to retrieve the hard disk content. I'll try to rewrite the thing as quickly as possible, and I don't have any problem with working on this. But if someone knowledgeable wants to take it over to quicken this process of cleaning everything out from NU C&C (which seems to be the case seeing the progress over the last week I was gone), I won't especially mind.
  12. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
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    Someone call Weegee, its spaghetti!!!!

    checking

    [SET]
    name: Offensive

    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Leaf Storm
    move 3: Hidden Power Rock
    move 4: Stun Spore / Sludge Bomb
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Modest
    evs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Tangela deserves its title as the premier physical wall, but it is certainly underestimated in its offensive capabilities. Sacrificing Tangela's uncanny ability to laugh off super effective physical hits, this set attempts to keep momentum with strong attacks and crippling status. Leaf Storm is a strong STAB attack, and turns Tangela from setup bait to a hit-and-run attacker. Regenerator and Leaf Storm is a match made in heaven, as Tangela can easily switch in on a physical attack, fire off a deadly attack, and switch out if necessary to recover all its health. (It doesn't always recover all) Sleep Powder is a great move to disable the few Pokemon that can take repeated Leaf Storms with ease. Hidden Power Rock gives better coverage against Fire- and Flying-types. Of course, Hidden Power Ice is another alternative, but comes at the cost of being unable to hurt Pokemon such as Magmortar as much. Tangela is rather lacking in offensive options, but Stun Spore is an excellent support move in an offensive metagame, crippling common switch-ins such as Jynx and Magmortar. Sludge Bomb is left as an option for hitting Exeggutor, another common Tangela switch-in, but it sees little use otherwise.</p>

    [Additional Comments]

    <p>Modest nature and maximum investment gives some much needed power behind Tangela's attacks, while 248 HP EVs maximize the health gained by Regenerator. The remaining EVs are put into Speed in order to outspeed Rock-types that may be able to set up Stealth Rock before painfully dying to Leaf Storm. Tangela has a surprisingly respectable 60 base Speed, and may even use a fully offensive set with Life Orb, faster spread, or even both. However, note that such decision will detract from Tangela's main draw over more destructive Grass-type comrades such as Choice Specs Exeggutor: the ability to wall unboosted physical attackers. The loss of either Eviolite or HP investment will leave Tangela 2HKOed by prominent attackers such as Life Orb Tauros and Choice Scarf Sawk.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock support is always helpful, but this is especially so for Tangela. With Stealth Rock, Tangela has a very real chance of OHKOing Swellow and Jynx with Leaf Storm. Spikes are also helpful, as Sleep Powder is great for forcing switches, but Toxic Spikes will severely conflict with Tangela's status moves. {Mention Stealth Rock and Spikes partners) Tangela is physically bulky, so Lickilicky can be helpful to sponge special attacks. In fact, this set can function in a more stallish team to give your team a better chance to win with your own offenses, but the physically defensive set will be generally better for such purposes in the long run. Swords Dance Samurott is another great teammate for resisting Fire- and Ice-type attacks.</p>

    <p>Tangela is extremely good at spreading paralysis, and the ability to lure out deadly threats in Jynx and Magmortar is priceless. Naturally, slow attackers such as Marowak appreciate Tangela slowing down the opposing team. But slow speed is not necessary to appreciate the supporting capabilities of Tangela. Pokemon using Substitute, such as Substitute Haunter, may scout for a timely full paralysis with a safety net. Pokemon in an awkward Speed tier, such as Magmortar, also appreciates paralysis. Not to mention, if Tangela can sleep the opposing special wall, you can be rest assured that Magmortar can wreak havoc on the opposing team. Rock-types, Quagsire, and Alomomola are welcome signs for Tangela to switch in and pressure the opposing team. As a result, strong physical attackers such as Absol and Swellow pair up well with Tangela.</p>
  13. complete legitimacy

    complete legitimacy Honko's Happy Funtime With Men
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    Additional Comments also needs to be in all caps.
  14. sirndpt

    sirndpt
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    I'd also disagree with this change in SET COMMENTS, but I'll leave it to the OP to decide.
    remember not to use 'may' where you mean 'might' or 'can' -- 'may' denotes permission. that said, great work guys! :)

    [​IMG]

    gp approved 1/2
  15. Amarillo

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    implimented :)
  16. sandshrewz

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    Leaf Storm Sleep Powder Stun Spore

    weee (open)

    [SET]

    name: Offensive
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Leaf Storm
    move 3: Hidden Power Rock
    move 4: Stun Spore / Sludge Bomb
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Modest
    evs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe removed two para spacings~

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Tangela deserves its title as the premier physical wall, but it is certainly underestimated in its offensive capabilities. Sacrificing Tangela's uncanny ability to laugh off physical hits, this set attempts to keep momentum with strong attacks and crippling status. Leaf Storm is a strong STAB attack, and turns Tangela from setup bait to a hit-and-run attacker. Regenerator and Leaf Storm is a match made in heaven, as Tangela can easily switch in on a physical attack, fire off a deadly attack, and switch out if necessary to recover its health. Sleep Powder is a great move to disable the few Pokemon that can take repeated Leaf Storms with ease. Hidden Power Rock gives coverage against Fire- and Flying-types. Of course, Hidden Power Ice is another alternative, but comes at the cost of being unable to hurt Magmortar as much. Tangela is rather lacking in offensive options, but Stun Spore is an excellent support move in an offensive metagame, crippling common switch-ins such as Jynx and Magmortar. Sludge Bomb is left as an option for hitting Exeggutor, another common Tangela switch-in, but it sees little use otherwise.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Modest nature and maximum Special Attack investment give Tangela's attacks some much-needed power, while 248 HP EVs maximize the health gained by Regenerator. The remaining EVs are put into Speed to let Tangela outspeed Rock-types such as Golem with a small Speed investment, preventing them from setting up Stealth Rock before painfully dying to Leaf Storm. Tangela has a surprisingly respectable base 60 Speed, and can even use a fully offensive set with Life Orb, a faster spread, or even both. However, note that such a decision will detract from Tangela's main draw over more destructive Grass-types such as Choice Specs Exeggutor: the ability to wall unboosted physical attackers. The loss of either Eviolite or HP investment will leave Tangela 2HKOed by prominent attackers such as Life Orb Tauros and Choice Scarf Sawk.</p>

    <p>Stealth Rock Entry hazard generalizing because you metioned other types of entry hazards~ support is always helpful, but this is especially so for Tangela. With Stealth Rock, Tangela has a chance of OHKOing Swellow and Jynx with Leaf Storm. Regirock can provide Stealth Rock, while countering the few physical attackers that Tangela cannot handle, such as Braviary and Swellow. Spikes are also helpful, as Sleep Powder is great for forcing switches, but Toxic Spikes will severely conflict with Tangela's status moves. Be careful of using Garbodor as a teammate—its Spikes are big help to Tangela, but Tangela will only be a burden to Garbodor. why? >.> that section could be removed :x it resists Ground-type attacks for Garby... Tangela is physically bulky, so Lickilicky can be helpful to sponge special attacks. In fact, this set can function in a more stallish defensive team to give your team a better chance to win with your own offenses, but the physically defensive set will be generally better for such purposes in the long run. Swords Dance Samurott is another great teammate for resisting Fire- and Ice-type attacks and can make use of that opportunity to set up.</p>

    <p>Tangela is extremely good at spreading paralysis, and the ability to lure out deadly threats in such as Jynx and Magmortar is priceless. Naturally, slow attackers such as Marowak appreciate Tangela slowing down the opposing team. Aside from these Pokemon, Substitute users such as Haunter can scout for a timely full paralysis with a safety net. Pokemon in an awkward Speed tier, such as Magmortar, also appreciate paralysis support. Not to mention, if Tangela can sleep put the opposing special wall to sleep, you can rest assured that Magmortar can wreak havoc on the opposing team. Rock-types, Quagsire, and Alomomola are welcome signs for Tangela to switch in and pressure the opposing team. As a result, strong physical attackers such as Absol and Swellow pair up well with Tangela as they often attract the aforementioned Pokemon.</p>


    iirc I read from somewhere that trying to outspeed something that is already trying to outspeed another thing is considered speed creep :x
    I guess a QC member can weigh in? >.> I think outspeed Golem isn't important anyway, as it usually switch out and the only thing Golem can do against Tangela is Sucker Punch it the latter is at low HP... 8 EVs should be relocated?

    Anyway, good read and sirndpt is too pro ~_~

    [​IMG]
    GP Approved 2/2
  17. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken neca eos omnes, deus suos agnoscet
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    I hardly imagine that it's worth outrunning Golem, since most will flee in terror from Tangela anyway and you'll be wanting to hit their switch-in, rather. Golem can't do anything to Tangela regardless.
  18. Amarillo

    Amarillo
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    Ok i put those spare evs into defense

    And this is now done (and i don't know why but my computer is freaking out about that spacing & i tried my best)
  19. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken neca eos omnes, deus suos agnoscet
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