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Tangela [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by MysticNova, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. MysticNova

    MysticNova

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    [​IMG]

    Tangela

    [Overview]

    <p>Tangela... how the mighty have fallen. Though still the physical Chansey of NU, this former staple of many balanced and stall teams has been overtaken by another one of our green friends: Regenerator Amoonguss. With Spore, a secondary Poison typing, and better Special Defense, Amoonguss has singlehandedly doomed Tangela to the outskirts of the tier. However, Tangela is in no way outclassed, as it still boasts a variety of advantages over the competition. With vastly superior Defense, a Ground resist, the lack of a Psychic weakness, and perhaps most importantly, access to Leech Seed, Tangela can do things Amoonguss cannot. For example, Tangela can actually wall a large majority of physical threats, including Tauros and Cinccino, while threatening the switch-in with a constant drain on its health. Tangela's good Special Attack and decent Speed also let it run a good offensive set with to Leaf Storm and Sleep Powder while retaining most of its bulk. All in all, Tangela hasn't changed much, remaining the same old annoyance to physical attackers and one of NU's best supporters.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Giga Drain
    move 2: Leech Seed
    move 3: Synthesis / Sleep Powder
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a base 115 Defense boosted even further by Eviolite, Tangela is the epitome of physical walling, able to survive even a Choice Band Emboar's super effective Flare Blitz. Regenerator greatly helps in this endeavor, making it difficult to wear down Tangela as it can recover its health simply by switching out. Giga Drain makes for a solid STAB move backed by a base 100 Special Attack while also giving extra recovery to Tangela. Leech Seed is one of the most important moves in Tangela's repertoire as it not only helps by giving extra recovery for walling and sapping away at the opponent's health, but also by deterring switch-ins such as Musharna and Gurdurr from setting up, as well as creating setup opportunities for your teammates. It is Tangela's most distinguishing feature from Amoonguss, and the utility it provides is so valuable that you might just be better off using Amoonguss without it. Though Synthesis may seem like a strange choice considering how much recovery Tangela already has, it helps greatly in stalling for Leech Seed and recoil damage and when a lot of hazards are stacked on your side of the field. Combined with a Leech Seed on the switch, Tangela can stay in on even Choice Band variants of Emboar and Braviary and take the hit, use Synthesis, then switch out, regaining almost all of its health thanks to 50% + 33% recovery, while also draining 25% of their HP and making them take damage from recoil. Sleep Powder is still an option over Synthesis as, despite being inferior to Spore, it is still able to cripple a Pokemon for usually the whole match. Hidden Power Ice gives good coverage alongside Giga Drain, hitting Grass-, Flying-, and Dragon-types super effectively and greatly reducing the number of Pokemon that can set up on Tangela. It is especially important for preventing Sap Sippers such as Sawsbuck from having their way with Tangela, as well as stopping Fraxure from setting up. Being able to hit predicted switch-ins is pretty nice as well.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs listed seem simple enough, but the movement of 4 HP EVs into SpD will stop Timid Life Orb Ludicolo's Ice Beam from OHKOing while giving an extra Eviolite point. A spread of 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe is also an option to outspeed standard Alomomola and Golurk, letting Tangela use Giga Drain or Leech Seed before being hit by Toxic or Ice Punch. Tangela doesn't have the largest movepool, but it does have a few more interesting options. Knock Off is quite a powerful move in a tier full of weak Pokemon reliant on their items and Eviolite users. Both Stun Spore and Toxic are status moves that can cripple either fast sweepers or bulky walls. Stun Spore and Sleep Powder together also form the well-known "double status" platform that can effectively cripple two Pokemon in quick succession. Finally, Hidden Power Rock provides similar coverage to Hidden Power Ice, but also hits Bug- and Fire-types, specifically Torkoal. However, it doesn't have enough power to OHKO even after Stealth Rock, and with the ascension of Magmortar to RU, Hidden Power Rock has lost most of its usefulness.</p>

    <p>Even with Eviolite, Tangela's measly base 40 Special Defense is not easy to work with, and combined with the five weaknesses its Grass typing brings to the table, Tangela needs a lot of support to function at its best. Similar to Amoonguss, Tangela greatly appreciates having Alomomola as a partner greatly as it can easily take on Emboar, Swellow, and Braviary, all of which can break through Tangela with powerful super effective STAB moves. Additionally, due to their shared Regenerator ability, the two can oftentimes simply switch in and out, constantly recovering their health while the opponent slowly dies to recoil and Leech Seed. Regirock works similarly along these lines and brings Stealth Rock to the table, which is helpful in dealing with Swellow and Braviary. However, it doesn't take on Emboar as reliably and will fall easily to repeated blows. Either way, both of these partners have their flaws, being broken by both special attackers and SubBU Braviary, a massive threat that can set up easily on these Pokemon. As such, packing a Cinccino or Rotom-S can go a long way towards dealing with Braviary completely. When it comes to special walling, you can't get much better than Lickilicky, which also packs Heal Bell to remedy Tangela's massive weakness to Toxic.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Leaf Storm
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Stun Spore / Synthesis
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Modest
    evs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Though Tangela has a reputation of being a harmless wall, it can also go on the offensive with a more than decent base 100 Special Attack. Combined with a 140 Base Power attack and status moves, opposing teams might be hard pressed to find a Pokemon that will enjoy switching into Tangela. Regenerator synergizes with Leaf Storm perfectly, as Leaf Storm's detrimental secondary effect will force Tangela to switch out often, and is perhaps the reason why this set is so effective. However, investment into offense doesn't mean Tangela's walling ability is gone. In fact, Tangela is still significantly physically bulkier than physically defensive Amoonguss. Sleep Powder will cripple almost everything Leaf Storm cannot, but the popularity of Amoonguss has also led to a rise of Sap Sippers, so be wary, especially with this set's decrease in physical bulk. Hidden Power Ice makes a return on this set to provide coverage on Grass- and Flying-types. Like most Grass-types, Tangela has a paltry movepool, so Stun Spore is the best move in the last slot. Stun Spore can offset Tangela's low Speed and stops some setup sweepers that would otherwise have their way with this set. Synthesis is another option to recover while staying in, but the nature of Leaf Storm makes this an unappealing choice.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Without a boosting item, maximizing Special Attack is necessary to hit as hard as possible. 248 HP EVs and an Eviolite retain most of Tangela's bulk while maximizing Regenerator HP gain. The remaining EVs are once again placed into Special Defense to survive Timid Life Orb Ludicolo's Ice Beam. A fully offensive set using Life Orb and max Speed is an option, but this severely detracts from Tangela's main niche over attackers such as Exeggutor: the ability to wall threats. Amoonguss, on the other hand, sorely misses the power of Leaf Storm, which is powerful enough to KO resists, such as Swellow, with Stealth Rock. Speaking of hazards, the hit-and-run nature of this set greatly appreciates both spin and hazard support. Spinners, such as Torkoal, will stop hazards from cutting off Tangela's only source of recovery, which is vital considering it will be constantly looking to switch into physical attackers in order to attack and spread status. Hazards are useful as they not only provide extra KOs, but also work well with the combined threat of sleep and Leaf Storm forcing numerous switches. Hidden Power Rock is an option to hit Fire-types, but it has lost most of its utility with the departure of Magmortar to NU.</p>

    <p>While it might seem strange, this set suffers from being setup bait more so than the defensive set as the Special Attack drop from Leaf Storm will make it easy for opponents set up, especially Substitute users who can both stall for Leaf Storm drops and block status. As such, the Substitute-breaking ability of Cinccino is nice in order to remedy this. Since this set will be constantly looking for openings, Tangela will appreciate partners that can lure out Water- and Rock-types that Tangela can come in on and threaten. Defensive partners such as Regirock and Lickilicky are still useful for this set as the former can provide hazards while luring out Water-types, while the latter can wall special attackers and lure out Fighting-types. This set has huge problems with Amoonguss, who 4x resists Leaf Storm and isn't 2HKOed by Hidden Power Ice even when running a physically defensive spread. Magmar, Emboar, and Braviary all handle Amoonguss well, and will directly contribute to this set's effectiveness when partnered with it as Amoonguss possesses one of the highest usage stats in NU.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A specially defensive spread can do well against Rain Dance teams while retaining most of Tangela's physical bulk, but Amoonguss is generally the better choice if you want to go down this path. SubSeed is a time-honored strategy of Grass-types, and Regenerator will help in making Substitutes, but Tangela's low Speed means it can be difficult to do much with such a set. Things such as Sludge Bomb, Sunny Day, and Growth are the remainder of Tangela's miserable movepool, but these are all just outclassed by better options.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Taking into account Tangela's lopsided defenses and the Grass-type's myriad of weaknesses, it isn't difficult to find a Pokemon that can force Tangela out. Powerful physical attackers such as Emboar, Swellow, and Braviary all resist Tangela's STAB moves and can deal massive amounts of damage to it. Zangoose can also break through Tangela after Stealth Rock. Virtually any special attacker can break through Tangela, as even resisted STAB moves will oftentimes 2HKO it. The threat of sleep and paralysis is still strong, however, so ways to avoid them are necessary to fully counter Tangela. Magmar is the most prominent, as Vital Spirit and its Fire-typing make it difficult for Tangela to do anything against it, but Magmar's offensive threat level just isn't up to par with Magmortar's. Substitute users such as SubCM Gardevoir, Klang, and SubBU Braviary can all set up on Tangela with ease. Sap Sippers such as Miltank and Sawsbuck can switch into most of Tangela's moves and take advantage of the Attack boost, but against a healthy Tangela, Sawsbuck will only fall to repeated Hidden Power Ices. Sap Sipper Zebstrika is a bit unorthodox, but it can do the same and also threaten with Overheat. Amoonguss poses a serious threat with Sludge Bomb and can take Hidden Power Ice without breaking a sweat. LumRest Exeggutor is another Grass-type that is immune to both Leech Seed and Sleep Powder, and can Rest off the damage from Hidden Power Ice while preying on Tangela's low Special Defense with a strong STAB Psychic. Finally, hitting Tangela with a Toxic, Knock Off, or Trick will greatly diminish it's walling ability by either crippling its defenses or constantly draining its health, a fact that will only be amplified by its lack of Leftovers.</p>
  2. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    You pretty much summed everything up about Tangela, but could do with some additions. Mention in Set Comments of the Physically Defensive that Tangela is not a surefire counter against Samurott as they could be packing Ice Beam or be ready to fire off a +2 Life Orb Megahorn after Tangela switches in. Mention a 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe spread in the AC of the Physically Defensive set that allows Tangela to outspeed Alomomola (and by extension reach Golurk) so it can get off a Giga Drain or Sleep Powder without fearing a Toxic or Ice Punch from Alomomola and Golurk, respectively.

    I personally do not think that Synthesis should be in the last slot as it's a pretty important move for Tangela. Even though it has Regenerator, as it doesn't have any Leftovers it is easily worn down by hazards and the 33% from Regen is just not enough all of the time when it is also switching into attacks. Synthesis also allows Tangela to handle physical threats such as Cinccino, Absol, and Sawsbuck better. I think the set should look like this:

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Synthesis
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Leech Seed / Sleep Powder
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    With Knock Off and Hidden Power Rock going to AC. EVs were changed because having an odd HP number decreases damage from Stealth Rock and Spikes slightly, while having an even number for Special Defensive allows Eviolite to boost it a little higher. Also mention that 248 HP gives Tangela 333 HP which is divisible by 3, providing maximum recovery from Regenerator. Leech Seed is placed before Sleep Powder as it is the defining move that differentiates it the most from Amoonguss. Tangela's Leech Seed support is amazing and a great asset to have, however Sleep Powder crippling is just as good.

    On the Offensive Set remove the brackets on the Hidden Powers; it should look like "Hidden Power Ice" and "Hidden Power Rock" When talking about Hidden Power Rock mention that its main target over Ice is Torkoal who has risen in popularity with its Shell Smash set. Tangela outspeeds max Speed Torkoal and can hit it hard, but cannot OHKO if it is at full or even after Stealth Rock. Say that Torkoal being its only real target and it not even OHKOing it after Stealth Rock while missing out on Sawsbuck is the reason HP Rock is being send to AC. I would also put Synthesis before Stun Spore because while it will be switching out often due to Leaf Storm its ability to revive itself to quickly by using Synthesis and switching out (total of 83% in recovery) really helps it stay alive and keep blasting off powerful attacks, which is the main point of the set; to outlast and blast.

    Finally add Growth to Other Options and mention that while it gives Tangela a little boost, it can't really make too much use of it due to a lack of coverage options and the boost is really underwhelming when not under Sun, which the Sunny Day sets can't really fit in either.

    After this...

    [QC]1/3[/QC]
  3. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    This isn't actually true - adding 4 more EVs to HP won't make you recover less than running 248 EVs does. Both spreads would recover 111 HP per switch out.
  4. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Looks like the RU Slowking analysis was wrong on that one too. However if you want to be extremely technical about it 111 HP recovery out of 334 HP = 33.23% recovery and 111 HP recovery out of 333 HP = 33.33%, so in a way it's correct.

    Ignore what I said about the 333 HP maximizing Regen recovery then, but keep everything else the same.

    Following up Annoyer's post down below mention specifically that Tangela is never OHKOed by Timid Life Orb Ludicolo at full HP using 248 HP / 8 SpD

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs 248 HP/8 SpDef Eviolite Tangela: 84.08% - 99.1% (2 hits to KO)
  5. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~

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    It should still be 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD so it will never be OHKOd by Ludicolo's Ice Beam. Because of the same reason, place the 8 Def EVs into SpD on the offensive set. I would also state something about how Tangela does not get OHKOd by CB Emboar to exemplify its bulk.
  6. MysticNova

    MysticNova

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    OK, sorry for the slight delay. Everything has been added, but should Synthesis really take the first slot? Most of the time, I just switch in, Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, then Giga Drain and that is usually enough to keep me alive if I want to stay in. Slashing Sleep Powder of all moves doesn't seem like a good idea to me either. Maybe something like this?

    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Giga Drain
    move 2: Sleep Powder / Synthesis
    move 3: Leech Seed / Synthesis
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
  7. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Synthesis is vital for completely walling physical threats. Something interesting to note is you can Leech Seed a CB Emboar switching in, take the Flare Blitz with 10% health left, heal with Synthesis, then switch out and have 100% health. Meanwhile Emboar has less than 50% health. You can also do the same exact thing for Braviary, another physical attacker famed for breaking through Tangela. Sleep Powder is good and all, but the utility of Leech Seed + Synthesis outweighs it.
  8. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken seize the day
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    To add to the discussion about move placement - I've used Synthesis Tangela a few times and I've used it without, and honestly I don't believe it's 'essential' enough to the moveset that it merits the first slot. It's nice to have, definitely, but the moments when you need it don't come up quite as often as you'd think. I'd instead argue that the slashes should go Giga Drain / Leech Seed / Synthesis or Sleep Powder / Hidden Power Ice. Tangela has excellent physical bulk, yes, but it especially excels when switching in and out (since there's just so much on the other spectrum and even a few physical threats that threatens it) thanks to Regenerator and Leech Seed, which is why Leech Seed deserves its own slash IMO. Tangela pretty handily walls stuff like Golurk so you can Leech Seed and net a positive result no matter whether it switches in or out (unless they bring in something like Ludicolo or Amoonguss, in which case you don't win anyway). I guess it just seems to me that Tangela is most efficient popping in and out when it's needed and Leech Seed allows a teammate to benefit from its presence, too.

    Apart from being able to sleep something potentially dangerous that Tangela otherwise shouldn't be bothering with (like Ludicolo), Sleep Powder is generally the most useless move and should probably be slashed behind Synthesis as well. It's nice for catching something off-guard (and even then, possibly only for a turn or two), but the much more reliable option will be Synthesis in almost all scenarios.

    Samurott is never mixed and even when it is, it should always be specially based with Megahorn, to try to catch Ludicolo. Samurott lacks the BP to be effective when physically based, and honestly you should avoid trying to use Tangela to deal with Samurott since +2 Adamant LO Samurott has a 60% chance to OHKO Tangela after Stealth Rock damage. I know that it's now the more rare variant of Samurott, but it still plausibly exists and we probably shouldn't be even alluding to the fact that Tangela is a surefire answer to Samurott when it isn't in any way. Strike "isn't weak to hazards" - Spikes still play a huge role in cutting off its primary form of recovery, and non-Synthesis sets will have a difficult time healing off damage without spin support. It is also incredibly susceptible to Toxic Spikes, which is another of its disadvantages against Amoonguss.

    HP Ice's primary usage is for stuff like Sawsbuck (that could otherwise set up on it) as well as Fraxure, hitting Braviary / Swellow switch-ins etc. You should avoid confrontations with Altaria until you can be assured that it is a physical DD set, since Specs sets threaten to OHKO.

    Top three bullet points in the AC section don't belong there. Also, make sure to clarify that it outspeeds standard Alom + Golurk with that spread, since many (including me) people will creep with those Pokemon. Be careful to not play it off as "the greatest combo ever" or the like when mentioning Alomomola as a partner - despite incredible physical coverage between the two, they're both still easily taken advantage of by Special attackers, like Gardevoir / Gorebyss / whatever. Otherwise seems to be among one of the better AC sections I've QCed. :O

    I don't have much experience with offensive Tangela, but teammates that manhandle Amoonguss are basically a necessity for this set considering that it doesn't even have a chance at 2HKOing physically defensive Amoonguss with a max power HP Ice. It doesn't even 4HKO specially defensive variants. Also I don't really know about Synthesis being 'better' than Stun Spore... why in the world would you stay in while you're at -2 to freshen up while they boost / take advantage, when you can instead paralyze them so you can prevent them from doing so? I don't understand the justification behind that one.

    Toxic Sap Sipper Miltank wins vs Tangela and can also stall it out of HP Ices even w/o Toxic, I believe. Quite a lot of Substitute users can also take advantage of Tangela, stuff like SubCM Gardevoir / SubBU Braviary can win out against it pretty easy.

    Implement all this and you've got my QC 2/3.
  9. Annoyer

    Annoyer =)~

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    yup do what zeb said above and you got:
    [qc]3/3[/qc]
    edit: also add lumrest eggy in checks and counters
    edit edit: lol raseri it already says special attackers in checks and counters NOOB
  10. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
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    there are a few things I would like to see added before this is approved. I'd like to mention that most Special Attackers can beat it in c&c. Offensive Mantine can 2HKO with Hydro Pump after SR, its really frail on the special side and most offensive special attackers can 2HKO with a resisted STAB. Otherwise I like it
  11. MysticNova

    MysticNova

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    This is now ready for GP checks.
  12. cbt

    cbt subtle body
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    Show Hide


    amcheck btw
  13. MysticNova

    MysticNova

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    OK thanks for the check! All changes made except for the first one and for the second, I made my own change because it felt too weak.
  14. melvni

    melvni
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    GP check. Good job on writing this. Other than a few issues with abbreviations and capitalization in a few cases, there doesn't seem to be anything I noticed repeatedly.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Tangela... how the mighty have fallen. Though still the physical Chansey of NU, this former staple on of many balanced and stall teams has been overtaken by another one of our green friends: Regenerator Amoonguss. With Spore, a secondary Poison typing, and better Special Defense, Amoonguss was able to has singlehandedly doom doomed Tangela to the outskirts of the tier. However, Tangela is in no way outclassed, with plenty hidden up its vines still having plenty of advantages over the competition (or a phrasing you prefer if this seems awkward to you; I don't think a variant of plenty of things hidden up its sleeve works here since things like high Defense and type match up strengths aren't secret). With vastly superior Defense, a Ground resist, lack of a Psychic weakness, and perhaps most prominently importantly, access to Leech Seed, Tangela can make itself much more useful than do things Amoonguss can't even without a reliable sleep move thanks to its ability to actually wall a large majority of physical threats (add comma) including Tauros or and Cinccino (add comma) while threatening the switch in (add hyphen between switch and in) with a constant drain on their its health. Tangela's good Special Attack and decent Speed also lets it make let it run a good offensive set thanks to with Leaf Storm and Sleep Powder while retaining most of its bulk. All in all, Tangela hasn't changed much,and is still remaining the same old annoyance to physical attackers and remains one of NU's best supporters.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Giga Drain
    move 2: Leech Seed
    move 3: Synthesis / Sleep Powder
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a base 115 Defense boosted even further by Eviolite, Tangela is the epitome of physical walling, able to survive even a CB Choice Band Emboar's super effective Flare Blitz. Regenerator greatly helps in this endeavor, making it difficult to wear down Tangela as it can recover its health simply by switching out. Giga Drain makes for a solid STAB move backed by a base 100 SpA Special Attack that also gives while also giving extra recovery to Tangela. Leech Seed is one of the most important moves in Tangela's repertoire as it not only helps in by giving extra recovery for walling and sapping away at the opponent's health, it deters but also by deterring switch-ins (add comma) such as Musharna or and Gurdurr (add comma) from setting up and can create a set-up opportunity creating setup opportunities for your teammates. It is the Tangela's most distinguishing feature of Tangela over from Amoonguss, and the utility it provides is so valuable that you might just be better off using Amoonguss without it. Though Synthesis may seem like a strange choice considering how much recovery Tangela has already, it really helps in stalling out for Leech Seed, (remove comma) and recoil damage, (remove comma) and when a lot of hazards are stacked on you your side of the field. Combined with a Leech Seed on the switch, Tangela can stay in on a CB Choice Band Braviary or CB Choice Band Emboar, take the hit, Synthesis, then switch out, regaining almost all of its health thanks to 50% + 33% recovery while draining 25% of their HP and making them take damage from recoil. Sleep Powder is still an option over Synthesis as (add comma) despite being inferior to Spore, it is still able to cripple a Pokemon for usually the whole match. Hidden Power Ice gives good coverage alongside Giga Drain, hitting Grass-, Flying-, and Dragon-types super effectively and greatly reduces reducing the number of Pokemon that can set up on Tangela. It is especially important in ensuring for preventing Sap Sippers such as Sawsbuck from having their way with Tangela, as well as stopping Fraxure from setting up. Being able to hit predicted switch-ins is pretty nice as well.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs listed seem simple enough, but the movement of 4 HP EVs into SpD will stop Timid LO Life Orb Ludicolo's Ice Beam from OHKOing while giving an extra Eviolite point. A spread of 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe is also an option to outspeed standard Alomomola and Golurk, letting you Giga Drain or Leech Seed before a Toxic or Ice Punch goes off. Tangela doesn't have the largest movepool, but it does have a few more interesting options. Knock Off is quite a powerful move in a tier full of weak Pokemon reliant on their items and Eviolite users. Both Stun Spore and Toxic are status moves that can cripple either fast sweepers or bulky walls. Stun Spore and Sleep Powder together also form the infamous well-known "double status" platform that can effectively cripple two Pokemon in one go. Finally, Hidden Power Rock provides similar coverage to Hidden Power Ice, but also hits Bug- and Fire-types, which is especially somewhat useful for Torkoal. However, it doesn't have enough power to OHKO even after Stealth Rock, and combined with the ascension of Magmortar to RU, Hidden Power Rock has lost most of its usefulness.</p>

    <p>Even with Eviolite, Tangela's measly base 40 Special Defense is not easy to work with, and combined with the 5 five weaknesses Grass typing brings to the table, Tangela needs a lot of support if it wishes to function at its best. Similar to Amoonguss, Tangela appreciates having Alomomola as a partner greatly as it takes can take on Emboar, Swellow, and Braviary with ease, all of which can break through Tangela with powerful super effective STAB moves. Combined with the Additionally, due to their shared Regenerator ability, the two can oftentimes simply switch in and out, constantly recovering their health while the opponent dies slowly dies to recoil and Leech Seed. Regirock works similarly on along these lines and brings Stealth Rock to the table, which is helpful in dealing with Swellow and Braviary. However, it doesn't as reliably take on Emboar as reliably and will fall easily to repeated blows. Either way, both of these partners have their flaws, being broken by both Special Attackers special attackers and SubBU Braviary, a massive threat that can set up easily on these Pokemon. As such, packing a Cinccino or Rotom-S can go along a long way in towards dealing with Braviary completely. When it comes to special walling, it doesn't get much better than Lickilicky, which also packs Heal Bell, which helps remedy Tangela's massive weakness to Toxic.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Leaf Storm
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Stun Spore / Synthesis
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Modest
    evs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Though Tangela mainly gains its has a reputation as of being a harmless wall, it can also go on the offensive with a more than decent 100 base Special Attack. Combined with a 140 Base Power move attack and status moves, opposing teams may find it difficult to find a Pokemon that will enjoy switching into Tangela. Regenerator synergizes with Leaf Storm perfectly, as Leaf Storm's detrimental secondary effect will force Tangela to switch out often, and is perhaps the reason why this set is so effective. However, investment into offense doesn't mean Tangela's walling ability is gone. In fact, Tangela is still significantly physically bulkier than max Defense Amoonguss. Sleep Powder will cripple almost everything Leaf Storm cannot, but the popularity of Amoonguss has also led to a rise of Sap Sippers, so be wary, especially with the decrease in physical bulk. Hidden Power Ice makes a return on this set to provide coverage on Grass and Flying types (add hyphen after Grass and between Flying and types). Like most Grass-types, Tangela has a paltry movepool, so Stun Spore is the best move in the last slot. Stun Spore can helps offset the low speed of Tangela Tangela's low Speed and helps stop some setup sweepers that really would otherwise have their way with this set. However, Synthesis is an option to recover while staying in, but the nature of Leaf Storm makes this an unappealing choice.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Without a boosting item, maximising maximizing Special Attack is a necessity to hit as hard as possible. 248 HP EVs with Eviolite retain most of Tangela's bulk while maximizing Regenerator HP gain. The remaining EVs are once again placed into Special Defense to survive Timid LO Life Orb Ludicolo's Ice Beam. A fully offensive set using Life Orb and max Speed is an option, but this severly severely detracts from Tangela's main niche over attackers such as Exeggutor: the ability to wall threats. Amoonguss also sorely misses the power that Leaf Storm gives, which is powerful enough to KO resists like Swellow with Stealth Rock. Speaking of hazards, the hit and run hit-and-run nature of this set greatly appreciates both spinning and hazard users. Spinners such as Torkoal will stop hazards from cutting off Tangela's only source of recovery (add comma) which is vital considering it will be constantly looking to switch into physical attackers in order to attack and spread status. Hazards are useful as they not only provide extra KOs, but also work well with the combined threat of Sleep sleep and Leaf Storm forcing numerous switches. Hidden Power Rock is an option to hit Fire types (add hyphen between Fire and types), but it has lost most of its utility without Magmortar in NU.</p>

    <p>While it may seem strange, this set suffers from being setup bait moreso more so than the Defensive defensive set as the Special Attack drop from Leaf Storm will make it easy to set up, especially for Substitute users who can both stall for Leaf Storm drops and block status. As such, the Substitute breaking ability of Cinccino is nice in order to remedy this. Since this set will be constantly looking for openings, Tangela will appreciate partners that can lure out Water- and Rock-types that Tangela can come in on and threaten. Defensive partners such as Regirock and Lickilicky still apply are still useful for this set as the former can provide hazards while luring out Water-types, while the latter can wall Special Attackers special attackers and lure out Fighting-types. This set has huge problems with Amoonguss, who 4x resists Leaf Storm while Hidden Power Ice fails to 2HKO even Physically Defensive variants isn't 2HKOed by Hidden Power Ice by a large margin even when running a physically defensive spread. Magmar, Emboar, and Braviary are all things that handle Amoonguss well, and will directly contribute to this set's effectiveness when partnered with it as Amoonguss possesses one of the highest usage stats in NU.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A Specially Defensive specially defensive spread can do well against Rain Dance teams while retaining most of Tangela's physical bulk, but Amoonguss is generally the better choice if you want to go along down this path. SubSeed is a time-honed time-honored strategy of Grass-types, and Regenerator will help in making Substitutes, but Tangela's low Speed means it can be difficult to do much with such a set. Things such as Sludge Bomb, Sunny Day, and Growth are the remainder of Tangela's miserable movepool, but these are all just outclassed by better options.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Taking into account Tangela's lopsided defenses and the Grass-type's myriad of weaknesses, it isn't difficult to find a Pokemon that can force Tangela out. Powerful physical attackers such as Emboar, Swellow, and Braviary all resist Tangela's STAB move moves and can deal massive amounts of damage to it. Zangoose can also break through Tangela after Stealth Rock. Virtually any special attacker can break through Tangela, as even resisted STAB moves will oftentimes 2HKO Tangela. The threat of Sleep and Paralysis sleep and paralysis is still strong however, so ways to avoid them can allow you are necessary to fully counter Tangela. Magmar is the most prominent, as Vital Spirit and a Fire-typing makes it difficult for Tangela to do anything against it, but the offensive threat level of Magmar just isn't up to par with Magmortar. Substitute users such as SubCM Gardevoir, Klang, or and SubBU Braviary can all set up on Tangela with ease. Sap Sippers such as Miltank or and Sawsbuck can switch into most of Tangela's moves, but they won't be able to win against a full health Tangela and will just fall to repeated HP Hidden Power Ices (Miltank generally runs Milk Drink and (unless the calc I did was wrong) only takes 33% max with no investment from 252+ Tangela; this should probably be rephrased to mention how only Sawsbuck is really in danger of falling to repeated Hidden Power Ices). Sap Sipper Zebstrika is a bit unorthodox, but it can do the same but and also threaten with Overheat. Amoonguss poses a serious threat with Sludge Bomb and can take Hidden Power Ice without breaking a sweat. LumRest Exeggutor is another Grass-type that is immune to both Leech Seed and Sleep Powder while Resting off damage from Hidden Power Ice and taking advantage of Tangela's low Special Defense with a strong STAB Psychic. Finally, hitting Tangela with a Toxic, Knock Off, or Trick will greatly diminish Tangela's walling ability by either crippling its defenses or constantly draining its health, which is amplified by the lack of Leftovers.</p>


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  15. MysticNova

    MysticNova

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    Thanks melvni, check implemented.
  16. sirndpt

    sirndpt
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    2/2
  17. MysticNova

    MysticNova

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    Thanks, this is now done.
  18. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
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    this will be up soon, whenever zebbles stops being lazy :)

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