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Tangrowth (BW2 Revamp) [QC: 3/3] [GP: 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by blazeVA, May 6, 2013.

  1. blazeVA

    blazeVA

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    Hi, my name is Blaze, and this is my first time doing this, so don't go easy on me. I am taking this over, but I have to give credit and thanks to Swamp-Rocket for making the skeleton, I mostly added a few things here and there. If this is missing anything you think is important, let me know.

    [Overview]

    <p>Although Tangrowth lost its most useful niche with the exclusion of Excadrill from OU, it can still be a valuable addition to many teams. However, since Amoonguss got Regenerator in BW2, Tangrowth faces more competition than ever before for a teamslot, especially since it was already overshadowed by the vaunted Ferrothorn. However, that is not to say that Tangrowth is entirely useless; in fact, it has several distinct advantages over its more popular contemporaries. Tangrowth has more physical bulk than Amoonguss, and has access to Regenerator and Sleep Powder, unlike Ferrothorn. It can even take an offensive approach with Chlorophyll, which makes it a powerful mixed sweeper that can catch teams off-guard. Unfortunately, this is the extent of Tangrowth's usefulness. It has trouble with rain, sun, and hail teams, since it doesn't have enough special bulk to stomach powerful moves such as Fire Blast, Blizzard, and even Hydro Pump. Additionally, powerful mixed sweepers can spell an early doom for Tangrowth. However, it does have the ability to take on most physical attackers and sweep unprepared teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Leech Seed / Knock Off
    move 3: Giga Drain / Power Whip
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold / Relaxed
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes full advantage of Tangrowth's impressive physical bulk. With Regenerator, it can safely scout powerful physical attackers such as Terrakion and switch out if need be, healing one-third of its health every time it does so. This gives it a great advantage over other physical walls such as Ferrothorn, since it can switch out with little to no repercussions. Sleep Powder is a great move for incapacitating a switch-in, and with BW sleep mechanics, this means that the opponent will usually remain useless throughout the match. Leech Seed gives Tangrowth more recovery, especially against Pokemon with high HP. This also helps to heal other teammates, because Tangrowth often switches out of a seeded opponent. Knock Off is another option to make opposing Pokemon less effective by removing their item. It's especially useful against physical Choice item users or even against Keldeo locked into Secret Sword. Giga Drain is the best choice for a STAB move, as it heals Tangrowth even more and easily 2HKOes Pokemon such as Terrakion and physically defensive Hippowdon, while neither of them can break through Tangrowth. Power Whip is a more powerful option for hitting Tyranitar, specially defensive Politoed, and Jellicent, but it has lower accuracy than Giga Drain and doesn't have the added benefit of healing Tangrowth. The final move is a choice between two different Hidden Powers. Hidden Power Ice is the preferred option for hitting Dragon-types such as Dragonite and Salamence, keeping them from setting up on Tangrowth while dealing with the Choice variants easily. Hidden Power Fire, on the other hand, can hit Steel-types such as Scizor, Forretress, and Ferrothorn for good damage, especially in the sun.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs on this set can be tweaked to outspeed certain threats and defeat them before they give you problems. A spread of 248 HP / 168 Def / 84 Spe can be used to outspeed specially defensive Jellicent and either put it to sleep or 2HKO it with Power Whip. A spread of 248 HP / 128 Def / 124 Spe lets Tangrowth outspeed uninvested Scizor and neutral-natured Tyranitar. Be aware that this will lower Tangrowth's physical bulk, thus making it more susceptible to 2HKOes from the likes of Choice Band Tyranitar after Stealth Rock damage. If a Relaxed nature is used, Tangrowth will need a lot more EVs: 156 for Jellicent and 200 for Scizor, and it may not be worth lowering its physical bulk for a slightly more powerful Power Whip. However, a Relaxed nature is better for catching Jellicent on the switch, 2HKOing it even if Tangrowth is burned on the next turn. Other moves that you could use include Stun Spore to spread even more status around, though this is an inefficient use of Tangrowth, as Amoonguss mostly outclasses it here. Leaf Storm is another powerful option for hitting Pokemon such as Jellicent, as it can possibly 2HKO specially defensive Jellicent with Stealth Rock damage, but a lowered Special Attack makes it a lot easier for Dragon- or Steel-types to setup on Tangrowth, especially Dragonite. Earthquake is Tangrowth's best option against Jirachi, particularly the Calm Mind variants who can shrug off Hidden Power Fire, and it also easily deals with Heatran. Focus Blast is Tangrowth's best move against Ferrothorn in rain, though it has shaky accuracy and won't always 2HKO. It is also Tangrowth's best move for hitting the Kyurem formes on the switch.</p>

    <p>One of the best partners for Tangrowth is Heatran, as they resist every one of each other's weaknesses except for Heatran's Fighting weakness. Heatran can also spread burns around with Lava Plume, making Tangrowth's job a lot easier, and walls some of the special attackers that give Tangrowth problems. Heatran also does well against sun and hail teams, both of which are problems for Tangrowth, while Tangrowth can handle the various Ground-, Water-, and Fighting-types that give Heatran trouble. Another great idea is to pair Tangrowth up with Slowbro or Slowking, since this forms a dual-Regenerator core that can be a nightmare to face. Entry hazards trouble Tangrowth, as they cut into its best form of recovery in Regenerator. Spinners such as Tentacruel are good for the nice synergy they have with Tangrowth, and Tentacruel can handle rain teams with Rain Dish and good defenses. Forretress is another option since it gives another physically defensive Pokemon to pair Tangrowth up with, but the shared Fire weakness can be problematic.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Chlorophyll Sweeper
    move 1: Growth / Swords Dance
    move 2: Power Whip
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire / Sleep Powder
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Naughty / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set focuses more on dealing damage then taking it. While you may want to use Venusaur instead of Tangrowth, Tangrowth can deal with priority moves a lot better thanks to its great natural bulk. Tangrowth also has a much higher Attack than Venusaur and access to Power Whip. Growth is the preferred boosting move on this set, as it raises both offenses, thus allowing Tangrowth to use a strong Hidden Power. If Tangrowth is not using any special attacks, Swords Dance is the better choice for setting up outside of weather or as a weather inducer comes in, as Tangrowth outspeeds every weather inducer outside of Choice Scarf Politoed and Tyranitar, and can slam both of them with Power Whip. This will give away the fact that Tangrowth isn't running any special moves, however, and that could prevent it from having much of an impact. Power Whip is the STAB move of choice because it packs a lot of power, and can easily OHKO specially defensive Pokemon such as Blissey who might give Venusaur trouble. Earthquake easily OHKOes Heatran and Jirachi. It is also the best move against Volcarona and other Fire-types. The last move is a choice between either Hidden Power for more coverage or a speedy Sleep Powder. Hidden Power Ice is again the preferred option as without it, Dragon-types will give you problems, especially Dragonite and Salamence since they 4x resist Power Whip and are immune to Earthquake. Hidden Power Fire, however, is best for hitting Scizor, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn, and it also gets a power boost under the sun. In addition, both Hidden Powers will deal a lot of damage to Grass-types. Sleep Powder is a final option that can be used to disable a switch-in and allow Tangrowth to get a free boost, but Grass / Ground has poor coverage and Tangrowth will lose to quite a few Pokemon without the help of a Hidden Power.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Naughty nature is used because all priority outside of the rare Vacuum Wave Lucario is physical, and lowering Tangrowth's Defense will make it more vulnerable to priority; it also allows it to go mixed more effectively. If Tangrowth is using Sleep Powder, an Adamant nature is the best choice since it won't be using its Special Attack.</p>

    <p>Ninetales is an obvious partner because of Drought, since Tangrowth outside of sun is a very sub-par offensive Pokemon. Keep in mind that its Speed is still pretty low even with a Chlorophyll boost, so Choice Scarf Fire-types that can take advantage of the sun, such as Darmanitan, Victini, and even Infernape, are good revenge killers for Tangrowth to be paired up with. Heatran is again a great teammate because it keeps hail teams at bay, it works well in the sun, and has very good synergy with Tangrowth. It can also be paired along with Venusaur by utilizing Tangrowth to break through walls such as Blissey and Heatran so that the much faster Venusaur can sweep. Choice Scarf Terrakion is a great teammate to beat other Fire-types on opposing sun teams, as Choice Scarf variants will easily outspeed and defeat Tangrowth. Tangrowth will also beat most of Terrakion's checks and counters, especially Landorus-T and Scizor. If you want to run Hidden Power Fire, then Mamoswine can easily beat Dragon-types with Ice Shard, making it easier for Tangrowth to sweep the opponent's team.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>A Choice Specs set with Leaf Storm / Focus Blast / Sleep Powder / Hidden Power Fire is also a good set, as Regenerator will allow it to play a very strong "hit-and-run" playstyle. Its base 50 Speed and shaky coverage holds this set back though, making it difficult for Tangrowth to beat faster teams. Synthesis can be used on the defensive sets for more recovery, but with the ever-changing weather, it is not very reliable and Tangrowth has Regenerator to heal itself anyways. Toxic is also another option, as it can be used to combat Blissey, but many of the other walls that Tangrowth would like to get by, such as Heatran, Forretress, and Skarmory, are not affected by it. Rock Slide is best for hitting Volcarona and Thundurus-T, but it doesn't have good coverage on any other threats, and has a low Base Power for a coverage move.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>As defensive Tangrowth is going to be switching in and out a lot, bringing in a counter against it can be difficult; however, it isn't too difficult to predict when it will switch, allowing you to potentially defeat its switch-in. The threat of Sleep Powder cannot be ignored either, as losing a potential counter to sleep is never beneficial.</p>

    <p>Latias is probably one of the best counters for the defensive set, since it can set up a Substitute on Sleep Powder, and then just Calm Mind from there. Tangrowth cannot break Latias's Substitute with Hidden Power Ice if she is at +1, which allows Latias to either boost at her leisure or take out Tangrowth with boosted special moves. Celebi is another excellent counter, as it doesn't worry about Sleep Powder because of Natural Cure, and it can boost, set up Stealth Rock, or simply attack while Tangrowth struggles to do anything meaningful in return. Amoonguss is also a good counter, as with its good special bulk it doesn't worry about Hidden Power Ice, and can Spore Tangrowth or use its own Hidden Power to damage it. Other Grass-types can be good counters, especially if they pack a special move. Venusaur can put Tangrowth down with a STAB Sludge Bomb, while Virizion can boost on Tangrowth and defeat it with Focus Blast or Hidden Power.</p>

    <p>Heatran is an issue if Tangrowth doesn't run Earthquake, as it takes little from Giga Drain and Hidden Power and easily beats Tangrowth with Fire Blast or Lava Plume. Other Fire-types give Tangrowth problems because they can deal a lot of damage to it with their super effective STAB moves. Darmanitan can even push an OHKO on Tangrowth with Flare Blitz, while Victini can use Blue Flare to hit it on the special side; they both fear a possible Earthquake, however. While Dragonite and Salamence need to worry about Hidden Power Ice, Dragonite can easily set up on any Tangrowth that lacks it, while Salamence can use Fire Blast or Draco Meteor to easily defeat Tangrowth. Both of the Kyurem formes are good counters because they can either muscle through Tangrowth or use Ice Beam or Blizzard to hit it on its special side. Toxicroak is an absolute terror for Tangrowth to face in rain, since Tangrowth cannot break Toxicroak's Substitutes, making it easy for Toxicroak to set up Bulk Ups and KO it with Drain Punch. In general, Steel-types are your best bet if Tangrowth does not run Hidden Power or Earthquake. Scizor will take a huge chunk out of it with U-turn, while Magnezone and Jirachi can set up and defeat Tangrowth with special attacks.</p>

    <p>The Chlorophyll sweeper set is harder to counter because of its great power and coverage, but it becomes much less of a threat if it does not run a Hidden Power. Skarmory is probably the best counter overall if Tangrowth lacks Hidden Power Fire, since it easily survives a +2 Hidden Power Ice and Whirlwinds it away. If it lacks Hidden Power, then Skarmory is basically untouchable, boasting a 4x resistance to Power Whip and an immunity to Earthquake. Dragonite and Salamence are in a similar boat, as Dragonite can set up on Tangrowth and Salamence can beat it with Fire Blast. Venusaur can switch in on Power Whip, outspeed it in the sun, and use Sludge Bomb to wipe it out. Choice Scarf Fire-types can easily revenge kill Tangrowth because of its low speed. Abomasnow can slow it down by changing the weather and threaten an immediate KO with Blizzard.</p>
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2013
  2. Meru

    Meru
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    I'd say that Tangrowth hasn't been seen since the SV Garchomp/Excadrill metagame. It had a good niche back then.

    Also in the overview, stating that it has a stronger Giga Drain than Ferrothorn is kind of silly as Ferrothorn would never dream of using special attacks.
  3. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    What you could say is that Tangrowth can act similarly to Ferrothorn as a physically defensive Grass-type that can run special attacks, while providing sleep support at the same time, which separates it from Ferrothorn. Gotta give reasons to use it, not just "This thing is super shitty, why aren't you using Ferrothorn?"
  4. blazeVA

    blazeVA

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    Thanks for the advice! I took what you guys said and made it so I could more clearly say what separated Tangrowth and Ferrothorn as physically defensive Grass types.
  5. HUARGH

    HUARGH

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    There are A LOT of grammar/spelling mistakes, I'd recommend fixing them. I was busy listing them but the entire text is riddled with them.
  6. blazeVA

    blazeVA

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    I only found one spelling mistake(unless you are talking about all the times I used Lando >.>), but I'm trying to reduce the uses of the commas. I have a bit of a comma complex. And this is a skeleton as well, not the final written product.

    But I am going through and trying to fix things.

    EDIT: Everything should be all accounted for.
  7. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    I wouldn't bother correcting his grammar in the QC stage, since grammar doesn't really matter until he actually begins to write the full analysis. As of now, he's just abbreviating and shortening words to get his point across.
  8. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Make sure there is a space on each side of a slash so it looks cleaner and adhears to format standards. Sorta like this:

    Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire / Sleep Powder

    not

    Hidden Power Ice/ Hidden Power Fire/ Sleep Powder
  9. blazeVA

    blazeVA

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    Thank you AG for pointing that out, and I have it fixed.
  10. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Oh, please apply that to the EVs and the natures, too!

    nature: Bold / Relaxed

    not:

    nature: Bold/ Relaxed
  11. BKC

    BKC
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    lucario! i agree with naughty > lonely obv but just mention that the occasional special luke is the only semi-common vacuum wave user.

    please edit this out

    not necessarily... i've used it on the defensive set before and it's p cool. slash it in or at least add it in AC pls

    mention specifics! skarm, forret, tran

    torn-t is banned, leaving only thund-t. just mention its targets outside of volcarona by name.
    not even worth a mention imo.

    also what do you guys think about... (open)

    Tangrowth (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast
    - Sleep Powder

    !!!
    i've tried it before and it was actually not that bad! yes it's got a million issues but i think it deserves a set, or, at the very least, a mention in OO
    yee likes this.
  12. blazeVA

    blazeVA

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    Added that in.

    Edited that out.

    I put it in the AC, as having a -2 Sp.A isn't the greatest if you want to hit Dragons with HP Ice(for instance, it only has a 47% chance to 2HKO Dragonite after SR). I also added how it can 2HKO Jellicent with SR.


    Mentioned all of those.

    Took out the Therian part and added just Thundurus-T.

    Edited that out.

    I'm not sure, but I will definitely try it out today to see how it does.
  13. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Change the title of the thread to: (QC 2/3), as it already has gotten its first two QC checks.
  14. Vertex

    Vertex

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    You may want to check on your grammar and re-read your sentences as it is much easier for us to check. Also there is no space between the <p> and "word" so I put a || to remind you. If you read this over again, it would be actually really good! Amateur Check, why not?

    Additions - Subtractions - Divisions - Multiplications - Commentary

    Amateur Check - Overview (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>||The prehistoric Grass type had a good niche back in the days of Excadrill, and it can still hold its own now. However, gaining Regenerator itself, Amoonguss gives it constant competition for team slot and Ferrothorn also seems to be the better option for a physically defensive Grass type. I don't like the phrasing of this sentence, try... Although gaining Regenerator this generation, Amoonguss gives it competition and the III-famed Ferrothorn seem the better option for a physically defensive grasss-type. But, Tangrowth does has some good points about him, such as having much largermore physical bulk than Amoonguss, and has the combination of Sleep Powder, Regenerator, and a useful STAB Giga Drain, all things Ferrothorn doesn't.can take an offensive approach with Chlorophyll. Okay, Amoonguss has Spore which spoils the point of only talking about Ferrothorn, Ferrothorn has Power Whip which is admittedly equal to Giga Drain's usefulness, providing more power over accuracy and healing, and Amoonguss has Regenerator too. This is generally where the good things stop, however. Tangrowth has trouble with Rain, Sun, and Hail teams, as its special bulk is not enough to stomach powerful moves like Hydro Pump.the rain-boosted Hydro Pumps that are commonly found on Rain teams, and in the Sun, the boosted Fire attacks spell doom for Tangrowth. Additionally Pokemon that regularly pack a special move such as Salamence can spell an early doom for Tangrowth.Additionally, the threat of mixed attackers can also spell doom for Tangrowth. However, Tangrowth does have the niche of being able to take on most physical attackers and sweep unprepared teams[/s]live to survive the day[/s].


    Copy + Paste (open)
    <p>The prehistoric Grass type had a good niche back in the days of Excadrill, and it can still hold its own now. Although gaining Regenerator this generation, Amoonguss gives it competition and the III-famed Ferrothorn seem the better option for a physically defensive grasss-type. Tangrowth does have some good points about him such as larger physical bulk than Amoonguss and can take an offensive approach with Chlorophyll. This is generally where the good things stop, however. Tangrowth has trouble with rain, sun, and hail teams, as its special bulk is not enough to stomach powerful moves like Hydro Pump. Additionally, the threat of mixed attackers can also spell doom for Tangrowth. However, Tangrowth does have the niche of being able to take on most physical attackers and sweep unprepared teams.<p>
  15. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
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    You can't do an amcheck (or even a GP check) until the analysis has gotten all three of its QC checks and the writer has declared it to be ready for GP.
  16. Lavos Spawn

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    definitely mention specs as the very first thing in oo, it's good but phystank is better

    i think chicken caught everything else so get this written up asap thanks!
  17. tehy

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    So just a few things:

    Firstly, although it's too early for an amcheck, the overview definitely needs a little bit of cleaning up, I'd look it over as you write the entire analysis. In particular, you mention that Tangrowth has problems with Rain, Sun, and Hail, but never elaborate on why Hail. It's pretty clearly Blizzards, but you might want to say that.

    Secondly, "One could use Power Whip for the extra power since Tangrowth can already heal so much and it makes Tyranitar and Jellicent much easier ". Jellicent can just WoW you or burn you with Scald, which would make it really difficult for Tangrowth to beat him with Power Whip.

    I'd mention Skarmory>Jirachi as the third steel that HP fire damages. It's much less specially bulky (Jirachi can just paraflinch with lefties and heal that off easily). Maybe also mention 'especially outside of rain'

    Focus Blast might 2hitko Ferro, but I wouldn't say it absolutely murders it. When i hear that, I think 90, maybe 85% damage.

    WoW is pretty rare on Heatran, i would give a larger mention to Lava Plume for burning physical attackers. Tangrowth can also help deal with fightings/water/dragons that plague heatran, although not as well as with grounds.

    With SD i'd mention that if the foe predicts a Growth and goes to a weather poke (Risky, but i've done it before), you can still get your boost, but it should only apply if you're not using any special moves.

    As for checks and counters, I don't even see Celebi, much less Blissey. You can at least Leech Seed Blissey, but it shrugs off status and Toxics you, which is annoying. Celebi basically does almost whatever it wants to you-Psychic, HP fire, HP ice, Nasty Plot, Stealth Rock, Heal Bell,even maybe U-turn or T-wave, although Tangrowth doesn't mind the last two too much. Celebi definitely deserves a mention by name. Also, Scizor and Ferro deserve name mentions, but only as long as Tangrowth lacks HP fire.
  18. blazeVA

    blazeVA

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    Sorry I haven't been around much(having five exams really cut down on the time here), but I'll add in all of this and get this written up hopefully be tomorrow.
  19. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    Please mention other regen mons as partners. Sure, it takes up a teamslot, but mons like Slowbro / Slowking don't have terrible synergy, and it makes of a frustrating core to face. I normally wouldn't care 2 much but its common enough to warrant a mention imo.

    Secondly, please mention Venusaur as a partner. Tangrowth, as a solo cloro sweeper, its pretty shit (due to its low speed) but what it CAN do very well, is weaken walls and what not for a partnered cloro sweeper to clean up. So mention other cloro sweepers as partners pls.
  20. BKC

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    qc approved 3/3
  21. blazeVA

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    I added both of those in, don't know how I forgot about a dual-Regenerator core.

    Ready for the GP checks now!
  22. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
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    Here's an amcheck :)
    ADD
    REMOVE
    Diff Amcheck (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>The prehistoric Grass typeangrowth had a good niche back in the days of Excadrill, andbut it can still hold its own now. However, with Amoonguss gaining Regenerator in BW2, Tangrowth now has togained more compete with Amoionguss for a team slot. The famed Ferrothorn also seems to be a better defensive Grass -(hyphen)type as well. Tangrowth does have some good points over the two though, it havings more physical bulk than Amoonguss, and Ferrothorn loses out on Regenerator and Sleep Powder over Ferrothorn. It can even take an offensive approach with Chlorophyll, being a powerful mixed sweeper than can catch teams off-guard. This is where the good thingpoints stop however. It has trouble with Rrain, Ssun, and Hhail teams, since its special bulk is not enough to stomach powerful moves likesuch as Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, orand Blizzard. Additionally, powerful mixed sweepers can spell an early doom for Tangrowth. However, Tangrowth does have the niche of being able to take on most physical attackers and sweep unprepared teams.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Leech Seed / Knock Off
    move 3: Giga Drain(space)/ Power Whip
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold / Relaxed
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Tangrowth has very nice physical bulk, and this set takes full advantage of it. With Regenerator, it can safely scout powerful physical attackers likesuch as Terrakion and switch out, healing itself for one-third of its health every time it does so. This gives it an great advantage over other physical walls likesuch as Ferrothorn, since it can switch out with little to no repercussions. Sleep Powder is a great move for putting a switch-in to sleep, and with BW sleep mechanics, this means that the opponent will be useless throughout the match. Leech Seed createsgives Tangrowth more recovery for Tangrowth, especially on Pokemon with high HP stats. It is also good for healing other teammates, becausince in general Tangrowth will often be switching out and bringing new teammates in. Knock oOff is another option however to knockrid Choice items off of Pokemon likesuch as Dragonite, Salamence, and Keldeo locked into Secret Sword, making them weaker and easier to deal with. Giga Drain is the best choice for a STAB move, givenas it heals Tangrowth even more. and it easily 2HKOes Pokemon likesuch as Terrakion and physically defensive Hippowdon won't like to stay on it because it 2HKOs both of them, while neither of them can break through Tangrowth. Power Whip, however, is a more powerful option for hitting Tyranitar, specially defensive Politoed, and Jellicent, but it has lower accuracy than Giga Drain and nodoesn't healing ability Tangrowth either. The final move is a choice between two different Hidden Powers.; (semi) Hidden Power Ice is the preferred option for hitting the Dragon -(hyphen)types in OU, such as Dragonite and Salamence, keeping them from setting up on Tangrowth while dealing with the Choiced versionariants easily. Hidden Power Fire, on the other hand, can hit the Steel types in OU, likesuch as Scizor, Forretress, and Ferrothorn, for good damage, especially outside of Raiin the sun.</p>

    [ADDTIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs on this set can be tweaked to outspeed certain threats and defeat them before they give you problems. A spread of 248 HP / 168 Def / 84 Spe can be used to outspeed specially defensive Jellicent and either put it to sleep or 2HKO it with Power Whip. A spread of 248 HP / 128 Def/ 124 Spe is also useful for outspeeding 0 Speuninvested Scizor and non-Sassyeutral-natured Tyranitar. This will lower its physical bulk though, making it susceptible to 2HKOes from the like of Choice Banded Tyranitar after Stealth Rock damage. If one is using a Relaxed nature, then Tangrowth will need a lot more EVs, 156 for Jellicent and 200 for Scizor, and it may not be worth lowering its physical bulk for a slightly more powerful Power Whip. However, a Relaxed nature is better for catching Jellicent on the switch, 2HKOing it even if you areTangrowth gets burned the next turn. Other moves that one could use include Stun Spore to spread even more status around with Tangrowth, though it makes it very similar to Amoonguss then, and removing one of the moves that differentiates Tangrowth from Amoonguss defeats the purpose of using Tangrowth. Leaf Storm is another very powerful option for hitting Pokemon likesuch as Jellicent, asince it can possibly 2HKO specially defensive Jellicent with Stealth Rock. But a lowered Special aAttack makes it a lot easier for Dragons-(hypen) or Steel -(hyphen)types to set-up on you, especially Dragonite. Earthquake is your best option against Jirachi, especially the Calm Mind variants who can shrug off Hidden Power Fire, and it also easily deals with Heatran very nicely. Focus Blast is your best move against Ferrothorn in rain, though it has skahaky accuracy and won't always 2HKO. It is also Tangrowth's best move for hitting the Kyurem formes on the
    switch.</p>

    <p>One of the best opartners for Tangrowth is Heatran., as Heatran has absolutely greaexcellent synergy with Tangrowthit, and they resist nearly every one of each other's weaknesses, with the only exception being the Fighting -(hyphen)type. Heatran can also spread burns around with Lava Plume, making Tangrowth's job a lot easier, and walls some of the special attackers that give Tangrowth problems. Heatran also deals with Ssun and Hhail teams quite well, which are both major problems for Tangrowth, while Tangrowth can handle the various Ground-(hyphen), Water-(hyphen), and Fighting -(hyphen)types that give Heatran a lot of problems. Another great idea is to pair Tangrowth up with Slowbro or Slowking, since it forms a dual-Regenerator core that can be a nightmare to face. HEntry hazards are also a big deal for Tangrowth, asince they cut into its best form of recovery in Regenerator. A sSpinner likes such as Starmie or Tentacruel are good for the nice synergy they have with Tangrowth, and Starmie can even handle Rrain teams for Tangrowth. Forretress is also another option since it gives another physically defensive Pokemon to pair Tangrowth up with, but the shared Fire weakness is not nwill be problematice.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Chlorophyll Sweeper
    move 1: Growth / Swords Dance
    move 2: Power Whip
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire / Sleep Powder
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Naughty / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    <p>This Tangrowth plays a completely different role from the other set, focuseding more on dealing damage then taking it. While one may want to use Venusaur instead of Tangrowth, Tangrowth can deal with priority moves a lot easibetter thanks to its still decentgreat natural bulk, and, it has a much stronger physical offense than Venusaur, with a higher aAttack and Power Whip, over Venusaur which is surprising for teams who prepare for Venusaurit instead of Tangrowth. Growth is the preferred boosting move on the set, as it raises both offenses allowing Tangrowth to use a strong Hidden Power effectively. If one is not using any special attacks however, Swords Dance is the better choice for setting up outside of weather or as a weather inducer comes in, as Tangrowth outspeeds every weather inducer outside of Choice Scarf Politoed and Scarf Tyranitar, (AC) and can slam both of them with Power Whip. This will give away thoughe fact that you have noTangrowth isn't running any special moves however, and that could keep Tangrowthit from having much of an impact. Power Whip is the STAB move of choice because it packs a lot of power, and since it is physical, a lot of specially defensive Pokemon likesuch as Blissey who might be able to take on Venusaur getare easily OHKO'd by it. Earthquake is the best move for taking out Heatran and Jirachi, easily OHKOing both of these Pokemon. It is also is the best move against Volcarona and other Fire -(hyphen)types. The last move is a choice of either Hidden Power for more coverage or a speedy Sleep Powder. Hidden Power Ice is again the preferred option asince without it, Dragon -(hyphen)types will give you problems, especially Dragonite and Salamence since they greatly resist Power Whip and are immune to Earthquake. Hidden Power Fire, however, is best for hitting Scizor, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn having a lot of power, it also gets a power boost under the Ssun. Both Hidden Powers will deal a lot of damage to Grass -(hyphen)types as well. Sleep Powder is the last option, and it can be used to disable a switch in and allow Tangrowth to get a free boost, but Grass(space/(space)Ground coverage is not very good and Tangrowth will lose to quite a few Pokemon without the help of Hidden Power.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Naughty nature is used because all priority outside of the rare Vacuum Wave Lucario is physically based, and lowering defense will make it more vulnerable to priority. I; (semi) it also allows it to go mixed more effectively. If you are using Sleep Powder, an Adamant nature is the best choice since you won't be using ithe s Special aAttack stat.</p>

    <p>Ninetales is an obvious partner because of Drought, since Tangrowth outside of sun is a very sub-par Pokemon if used offensively. Keep in mind that its sSpeed is still pretty low even with a Chlorophyll boost, so aChoice Scarfed Fire -(hyphens)types that can take advantage of the sun such as Darmanitan, Victini, and even Infernape, are good revenge killers wherefor Tangrowth may fall shortto be paired up with. Heatran is again a great teammate because it keeps Hhail teams at bay for Tangrowth, it works great in the sun, and because they as well, againd haves very good synergy with each oTangrowther. It can also be paired along with Venusaur, allowing Tangrowth to break through walls likesuch as Blissey and Heatran so that Venusaur with itse much highfaster SpeedVenusaur can sweep. Choice Scarf Terrakion is a great teammate to beat other Fire -(hyphen)types on Sopposing sun teams, as Choice Scarf versionariants will easily out-speed and defeat Tangrowth. Tangrowth will also beat most of itTerrakion's checks and counters, especially Landorus-T and Scizor. If you want to run Hidden Power Fire, thaen Mamoswine can easily beat Dragon -(hyphen)types with Ice Shard, making it easier for Tangrowth to sweep the opponent'(apostrophe)s team.</p>

    [OTHER OPTIONSther Options]

    <p>A Choice Specs set with Leaf Storm / Focus Blast / Sleep Powder / Hidden Power Fire is also a good set, as Regenerator will allow it to play a very strong "hit-and-run" play style. The lowerIts base 50 sSpeed and the shaky coverage holds this set back though, making it difficult for Tangrowth to beat some teams. Synthesis can be used on the defensive sets for more recovery, but with the ever changing weather, it is not very reliable and Tangrowth has Regenerator to heal a lot of HP anyways. Toxic is also another menoption, asince it can be used to keep Blissey at bay, but many of the other walls that Tangrowth would like to get by, likesuch Heatran, Forretress, and Skarmory, are not affected by it. Rock Slide is best for hitting Volcarona and Thundurus-T, but it doesn't have good coverage on any other threats, and has a low base power for a coverage move.</p>

    [CHECKS AND COUNTERShecks And Counters]

    <p>SinceAs the defensive Tangrowth is going to be switching in and out a lot, bringing in a counter against it can be difficult, buthowever, it is easyn't too difficult to predict when it will switch, andllowing you to possibtentially defeat aits switch -in. The threat of Sleep Powder cannot be ignored either, as losing a potential counter to sleep is never a good thing.</p>

    <p>Latias is probably one of the best counters for the defensive set, since it can set up a subSubstitute on Sleep Powder, and then just Calm mMind from there. Tangrowth cannot break Latias's subSubstitute with Hidden Power Ice if Latiashe is at +1, which allow Latias to either boost at her leisure or take out Tangrowth with boosted special moves. Celebi is also another excellent counter, as it doesn't worry about Sleep Powder because of Natural Cure, and it can boost, set up Stealth Rock, or simply attack it while Tangrowth struggles to do anything meaningful to itin return. Ironically enough, Amoonguss is also a good counter, as with its good special bulk it doesn't worry about Hidden Power Ice, and can Spore it or use its own Hidden Power to damage Tangrowth. Other Grass -(hyphen)types are also good counters, especially if they pack a special move. Venusaur can put it down with a STAB Sludge Bomb, while Virizion can boost on Tangrowth and defeat it with Focus Blast or Hidden Power.</p>

    <p>Heatran is an issue if youTangrowth doesn't run Earthquake, as it takes little from Giga Drain or Hidden Power and easily beats Tangrowth with Fire Blaset or Lava Plume. Other Fire -(hyphen)types give Tangrowth problems because they can deal a lot of damage to it with their STAB moves. Darmanitan can even push an OHKO on Tangrowth with Flare Blitz, while Victini can use Blue Flare to hit it on the special side. T; they both fear a possible Earthquake however. While Dragonite and Salamence need to worry about Hidden Power Ice, Dragonite can easily set up on Tangrowth without it while Salamence uses Fire Blast or Draco Meteor to easily defeat Tangrowth. Both of the Kyurem formes are good counters because they can either muscle through Tangrowth or use Ice Beam and Blizzard andto hit it on theits special side. Toxicroak is an absolute terror for Tangrowth to face in Rrain, since Tangrowth cannot break Toxicroak's Substitutes, making it easy for Toxicroak to set up Bulk Ups and KO it with Drain Punch. In general, Steel -(hyphen)types are your best bet if Tangrowth does not run Hidden Power Fire or Earthquake. Scizor will take a huge chunk out of it with U-Tturn, while Magnezone and Jirachi can set up and defeat Tangrowth with special attacks.</p>

    <p>The Chlorophyll sweeper is set is harder to counter because of its great power, but, if one chooses to drop Hidden Power, it does become easier. Skarmory is probably the best counter overall if Tangrowth lacks Hidden Power Fire, since it easily survives a +2 Hidden Power Ice and Whirlwinds it away. If it lacks Hidden Power, then Skarmory is basically untouchable, boasting a 4x resistance to Power Whip and an immunity to Earthquake. Dragonite and Salamence are also in the sameon a similar boat as Skarmory, as Dragonite can set up on Tangrowth and Salamence can beat it with Fire Blast. Venusaur can switch in on Power Whip, outspeed it in the sun, and use Sludge Bomb to wipe it out. Choice Scarfed Fire types can easily revenge kill Tangrowth because of its low speed. Abomasnow can slow it down by changing the weather and threaten an immediate KO with Blizzard.</p>


    Comments/Tips (open)
    • Nicknames are usually frowned upon in analyses, so please use the Pokemon's actual name or a pronoun
    • You always use a hyphen when using the word "type" right after a Pokemon's type, even if there are multiple types to be listed. Example: "Water-, Grass-, and Ground-type opponents". I saw this mistake A LOT during my check.
    • You don't capitalize weathers (rain, sun, etc.) unless mentioning them in the set names.
    • You tend to forget to place the <p> tags a lot, and when you're closing a paragraph you use the "</p>" tag and NOT the "<p>" tag <-- this tag is only used when starting a paragraph. To learn more about these tags, visit this thread.
    • You need some basic proofreading, such as capitalizing Pokemon moves.
    • Other Options and Checks and Counters are never fully capitalized, this is only the case with Set Comments and Additional Comments.
    • Its OHKO'd not OHKOed (fixed by melvni), and you use an "an" before mentioning it, not an "a". Example: It was an OHKO.
    • Stats are always capitalized if you're writing them as stats. Since the "Speed" stat is somewhat confusing, here is a situation of when you would capitalize: "Chlorophyll boosts Tangrowth's Speed.", here's when you DON'T use it: "Tangrowth's speed was terrible during the Pokeathlon".
    • Try to avoid using the word "like" replace it with "such as" whenever possible. Likewise, try avoiding the word "since" and try to replace it with "because" or "as" whenever possible.
    • For more information, visit this thread.

    Shoutout to Jukain for giving me most of these tips when I messed up on a previous amcheck :)
  23. blazeVA

    blazeVA

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2011
    Messages:
    43
    Thanks for the AM check Rohail! And thanks for the advice on what I should and shouldn't do, I'll make sure to keep that in mind for when I do another analysis(If I do is a much better phrase).

    All edits are in.
  24. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
    is a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    828
    No problem ^_^
    Just a little note though, OHKO'd isn't the right term, OHKOed is (thanks melvni for reminding me).
  25. relaunched

    relaunched

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Messages:
    299
    additions deletions comments

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Tangrowth has had a good niche back in the days of Excadrill, but it can still hold its own now. However, with Amoonguss gaining Regenerator in BW2 since Amoonguss got Regenerator in BW2, Tangrowth gained more competition for a team slot. The famed Ferrothorn also seems to be a better defensive Grass-type as well. Tangrowth does have some good points over the two though,: it has more phyiscal physical bulk than Amoonguss, and Regenerator and Sleep Powder over Ferrothorn. It can even take an offensive approach with Chlorophyll, being which makes it a powerful mixed sweeper than can catch teams off-guard. This is where the good points stop however. It has trouble with rain, sun, and hail teams, since its special bulk is not enough to stomach powerful moves such as Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, and Blizzard and even Hydro Pump. Additionally, powerful mixed sweepers can spell an early doom for Tangrowth. However, Tangrowth does have the niche of being able to take on most physical attackers and sweep unprepared teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Leech Seed / Knock Off
    move 3: Giga Drain / Power Whip
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Bold / Relaxed
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Tangrowth has very nice physical bulk, and this set takes full advantage of it. With Regenerator, it can safely scout powerful physical attackers such as Terrakion and switch out if need be, healing one-third of its health every time it does so. This gives it a great advantage over other physical walls such as Ferrothorn, since it can switch out with little to no repercussions. Sleep Powder is a great move for putting a switch-in to sleep, and with BW sleep mechanics, this means that the opponent will be useless throughout the match. Leech Seed gives Tangrowth move more recovery, especially on against Pokemon with high HP stats. It is also good for healing helps heal other teammates, because Tangrowth will often be switching out and often switches out of a seeded opponent and bringings new teammates in. Knock Off is another option to rid Choice items off of Pokemon such as Dragonite, Salamence, and Keldeo locked into Secret Sword, making them weaker and easier to deal with. make opposing Pokemon less effective. It's especially useful against physical Choice item users or even Keldeo locked in to Secret Sword. Giga Drain is the best choice for a STAB move, as it heals Tangrowth even more and it easily 2HKOes Pokemon such as Terrakion and physically defensive Hippowdon, while neither of them can break through Tangrowth. Power Whip, however, is a more powerful option for hitting Tyranitar, specially defensive Politoed, and Jellicent, but it has lower accuracy than Giga Drain and doesn't heal Tangrowth either. The final move is a choice between two different Hidden Powers;. Hidden Power Ice is the preferred option for hitting the Dragon-types in OU, (RC) such as Dragonite and Salamence, keeping them from setting up on Tangrowth while dealing with the Choiced variants easily. Hidden Power Fire, on the other hand, can hit the Steel-types in OU, (RC) such as Scizor, Forretress, and Ferrothorn, for good damage, especially in the sun.</p>

    [ADDTIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs on this set can be tweaked to outspeed certain threats and defeat them before they give you problems. A spread of 248 HP / 168 Def / 84 Spe can be used to outspeed specially defensive Jellicent and either put it to sleep or 2HKO it with Power Whip. A spread of 248 HP / 128 Def / 124 Spe is also useful for outspeeding lets you outspeed uninvested Scizor and neutral-natured Tyranitar. This will lower its Tangrowth's physical bulk though, making it more susceptible to 2HKOes from the like likes of Choice Band Tyranitar after Stealth Rock damage. If one is using a Relaxed nature, then Tangrowth will need a lot more EVs, 156 for Jellicent and 200 for Scizor, and it may not be worth lowering its physical bulk for a slightly more powerful Power Whip. However, a Relaxed nature is better for catching Jellicent on the switch, 2HKOing it even if Tangrowth gets burned on the next turn. Other moves that one could use include Stun Spore to spread even more status around, though it makes Tangrowth very similar to Amoonguss then, and removing one of the moves that differentiates Tangrowth from Amoonguss defeats the purpose of using Tangrowth. though this defeats the purpose of Tangrowth, as Amoonguss mostly outclasses it with this set of moves. Leaf Storm is another powerful option for hitting Pokemon such as Jellicent, as it can possibly 2HKO specially defensive Jellicent with Stealth Rock damage. But a lowered Special Attack makes it a lot easier for Dragon- or Steel-types to setup on you, especially Dragonite. Earthquake is your best option against Jirachi, especially the Calm Mind variants who can shrug off Hidden Power Fire, and it also easily deals with Heatran. Focus Blast is your best move against Ferrothorn in rain, though it has shaky accuracy and won't always 2HKO. It is also Tangrowth's best move for hitting the Kyurem formes on the switch.</p>

    <p>One of the best partners for Tangrowth is Heatran, as Heatran has excellent synergy with it, and they resist nearly every one of each other's weaknesses, (RC) with the only exception being the Fighting-type but Fighting. Heatran can also spread burns around with Lava Plume, making Tangrowth's job a lot easier, and walls some of the special attackers that give Tangrowth problems. Heatran also deals with does well against sun and hail teams quite well, which are both major problems for Tangrowth, while Tangrowth can handle the various Ground-, Water-, and Fighting-types that give Heatran a lot of problems. Another great idea is to pair Tangrowth up with Slowbro or Slowking, since it forms a dual-Regenerator core that can be a nightmare to face. Entry hazards are also a big deal for trouble Tangrowth, as they cut into its best form of recovery in Regenerator. Spinners such as Starmie or Tentacruel are good for the nice synergy they have with Tangrowth, and Starmie Tentacruel can even handle rain teams for Tangrowth (I would say Tentacruel does a much better job of handling rain teams than Starmie does. Whether you keep this as Starmie or change it to Tentacruel, you should give an explanation of this, as it's not terribly clear how they handle rain teams.). Forretress is also another option since it gives another physically defensive Pokemon to pair Tangrowth up with, but the shared Fire weakness will be is problematic.</p>


    So as you can see I only edited the first analysis. There's a reason for this. See ginganinja's comment. You may have mentioned Venusaur as a partner, but the analysis only suggests that Venusaur would be a decent partner for the set, not that another Chlorophyll sweeper is an essential partner for Tangrowth, as ginganinja implied. However, changing the analysis to express this is a big task, as you actually have to mention other Chlorophyll-users as partners outside of the AC section. The whole tone and structure of the analysis has to change. I would talk this over with QC and see if their consensus is that ginganinja's claim is true, and then redo the second analysis if they agree. As a grammar checker, I am not in the right executive position to make such a big change, but I do feel that if ginganinja is correct, your Chlorophyll analysis is highly misleading.

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