OU Tangrowth

alexwolf

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Overview
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OU is not a kind environment for Tangrowth. Tangrowth faces big competition from other bulky Grass-types, namely Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, and Ferrothorn, which are usually better choices on a team. Furthermore, unlike Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss, Tangrowth dislikes getting burned because it uses a lot of physical moves, which is a shame when it is expected to switch into Water-types such as Rotom-W, Keldeo, and Politoed, all of which can inflict burns with Scald or Will-O-Wisp. On top of those shortcomings, Tangrowth is also slow, and it is setup bait for some very dangerous Pokemon depending on the coverage moves it uses.

However, Tangrowth has several unique advantages that make it a worthwhile option on some teams. A Ground resistance, huge physical bulk, Knock Off, and Regenerator are the tools of Tangrowth that separate it from other Grass-types. For this reason, it is one of the best all-around checks to Ground-types with its Assault Vest set. It also has a rather large attacking movepool consisting of coverage options such as Rock Slide, Earthquake, Focus Blast, and the aforementioned Knock Off.

Assault Vest
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name: Assault Vest
move 1: Leaf Storm / Giga Drain
move 2: Knock Off
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire / Rock Slide
ability: Regenerator
item: Assault Vest
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

Moves
========

Leaf Storm is Tangrowth's main source of damage, OHKOing Pokemon that Tangrowth can easily switch into, such as Tail Glow Manaphy and Mega Gyarados after Stealth Rock, Terrakion, Rotom-W, and Keldeo. Giga Drain gives Tangrowth more staying power and a bit more longevity while not leaving it helpless after it KOes something, unlike with Leaf Storm, but the power loss is very noticeable and leaves Tangrowth unable to counter Manaphy, Keldeo, Mega Gyarados, and Terrakion. Knock Off is a great utility move to toss around and allows Tangrowth to deal with some of the Pokemon it checks, such as Latios, Gengar, and Latias. Earthquake deals with Excadrill, Heatran, Aegislash, Mega Mawile, Bisharp, and Mega Charizard X, all Pokemon that Tangrowth either checks or is checked by. In the last slot, there are three choices. Hidden Power Ice deals with the Ground-types that Tangrowth checks, such as Garchomp, Landorus-T, Landorus, and Gliscor, 2HKOing all of them. Hidden Power Fire covers Ferrothorn, Scizor, Skarmory, and Mega Pinsir, all Pokemon that could otherwise switch into Tangrowth with impunity. Both Hidden Power Ice and Hidden Power Fire also 2HKO Breloom. Lastly, Rock Slide covers Talonflame, Thundurus, and Mega Charizard Y, and it ensures that Substitute Kyurem-B can't set up on Tangrowth. However, with Rock Slide in the last slot, Tangrowth uses three physical attacks and is thus heavily crippled by burns, which is not ideal when it is expected to deal with Water-types throughout the game.

Focus Blast can be used over Earthquake if you want Tangrowth to be crippled less by burns, but has poor accuracy and isn't as good as Earthquake at punishing Heatran switch-ins. In fact, even when Tangrowth is burned, Earthquake deals more damage to specially defensive Heatran than Focus Blast. Hidden Power Rock and Ancient Power are also possible options on the last slot if you expect Tangrowth to get burned often, though their lower power in comparison to Rock Slide means that they have no chance to OHKO Mega Charizard Y on the switch or 2HKO Thundurus without prior damage. Ancient Power's PP is usually enough and the rare stat boost comes in handy, but if PP is a concern, then go with Hidden Power Rock.

Set Details
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The EV spread is simple and aims to make Tangrowth as specially bulky as possible, while still giving it enough physical bulk to check threatening physical sweepers such as Mega Tyranitar and Mega Gyarados. A Speed-hindering nature is used because Tangrowth's Speed is already very low and Tangrowth doesn't want to lose any power.

Usage Tips
========

This variant of Tangrowth is a great mixed tank, able to check a multitude of dangerous offensive Pokemon, such as Excadrill, Aegislash, Dragonite, Landorus, Thundurus, Breloom, Garchomp, Latios, Latias, Gengar, Gyarados, Keldeo, Tyranitar, Manaphy, and Azumarill. For this reason, it's a good pivot on offensive teams as a catch-all check to strong offensive Pokemon, as well as a few annoying pivots such as Rotom-W. Because Tangrowth has Regenerator, switching out a lot is recommended. Keep in mind that if the opponent has a Mega Evolution that can switch into Tangrowth with little trouble, such as Mega Charizard Y or Mega Pinsir, they are immune to Knock Off and can put a great deal of pressure on Tangrowth's team as they force Tangrowth out. Before these Pokemon have been KOed, you should constantly be double switching.

Team Options
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Rotom-W has great synergy with Tangrowth, covering its Fire, Ice, and Flying weaknesses and taking on Pokemon such as Mega Pinsir, Heatran, Talonflame, and Mamoswine. Mega Charizard X with Roost and Bulk Up Talonflame counter Mega Charizard Y, one of the biggest worries for Tangrowth, and they can also threaten the plethora of Grass- and Steel-types that wall Tangrowth, while Tangrowth can in return check the Water- and Ground-types that trouble them, such as Rotom-W, Landorus-T, Hippowdon, and Choice Scarf Garchomp. Any Fire-type works well as a partner, but those two Fire-types have the added benefit of dealing with Mega Charizard Y. Entry hazard removal is nice, so that Tangrowth doesn't have to worry about defensive Steel-types such as Skarmory and Ferrothorn taking advantage of it and is free to use better coverage options. Mandibuzz deals with most Steel-types with Taunt, and can also check a lot of the physically offensive Pokemon that trouble Tangrowth, such as Mega Charizard X, Talonflame, and Mega Scizor, while Tangrowth checks Electric- and Water-types that give Mandibuzz a hard time, such as Rotom-W, Keldeo, and Thundurus. Slowbro has good synergy with Tangrowth and has Regenerator too, making for a potent pivoting duo that can switch in and out at will.

Knock it Off, Mojonbo Rules Here!
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name: Knock it Off, Mojonbo Rules Here!
move 1: Giga Drain / Leaf Storm
move 2: Knock Off
move 3: Sleep Powder / Earthquake
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
ability: Regenerator
item: Leftovers
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Moves
========

Giga Drain provides healing and a way to deal with Water-, Ground-, and Rock-types. Leaf Storm OHKOes max HP Rotom-W, Keldeo, Terrakion, and Mega Gyarados after Stealth Rock as regular Gyarados, and it fits well with Tangrowth's hit-and-run playstyle, though Giga Drain is preferred because this set really appreciates the extra staying power when facing threats such as Mega Tyranitar. Knock Off is a great move to throw around early-game, while also covering Swords Dance Aegislash, a physical threat that Tangrowth can check. Sleep Powder cripples the physical sweepers Tangrowth checks, or an opposing check on the switch, givingTangrowth some much needed utility. Earthquake covers Excadrill, Heatran, Mega Charizard X, Mega Mawile, and Bisharp, all threatening Pokemon that would otherwise take advantage of Tangrowth or straight up beat it. Hidden Power Ice covers a lot of the Ground-types that Tangrowth can switch into, such as Landorus-T, Garchomp without Fire Blast, and Gliscor, as well as Dragonite. On the other hand, Hidden Power Fire covers Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Skarmory, but these Pokemon are easier to handle than the threats that Hidden Power Ice covers, making Hidden Power Ice the superior option. Leech Seed can be used somewhere on the set to annoy any non-Grass-type switch-in, but all of Tangrowth's other moves are usually too important to pass up.

Set Details
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This set uses maximum physical bulk to allow Tangrowth to deal with Pokemon such as Swords Dance Garchomp, Terrakion, Azumarill, Mega Gyarados, Mega Tyranitar, Landorus-T, and Dragonite as well as possible.

Usage Tips
========

Tangrowth is a sturdy physical wall that can reliably counter a lot of physical threats throughout the game. Be sure to use Tangrowth to its advantages over other Grass-types commonly seen in OU, though, including much better physical bulk, a Ground resistance, Knock Off, more power over Amoonguss, and better survivability than Mega Venusaur. Also, don't spam Knock Off when threatening Mega Evolutions are on the opponent's team, such as Mega Pinsir and Mega Charizard Y. Similarly, don't use Sleep Powder when Grass-types or Mandibuzz are on the opponent's team, or at least not unless it's absolutely necessary to do so, such as against a strong boosting sweeper that Tangrowth can't threaten otherwise. Finally, use Tangrowth as a pivot rather than a wall to take advantage of Regenerator and to avoid giving free switches to the dangerous Pokemon that Tangrowth attracts.

Team Options
========

Rotom-W can check a lot of the Fire- and Flying-types that threaten Tangrowth, such as Talonflame, Heatran, Tornadus-T, and Mega Pinsir. Heatran takes care of the Grass- and Steel-types that wall Tangrowth, while Tangrowth takes care of Water- and Ground-types. Mega Charizard X and Y also work for this role, but they need more support because they are weak to Stealth Rock. Assault Vest Slowking checks many special attackers that Tangrowth has problems against, and the two form a Regenerator core that is both physically and specially bulky.

Other Options
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Tangrowth can use Stun Spore to cripple its usual switch-ins, such as Mega Charizard Y, Mega Charizard X, and Mega Pinsir. However, Grass-types have an easy time switching into Tangrowth, which is why Stun Spore is often useless, depending on the team you are facing. Infestation can be used on any set to prevent double switches and ensure that Pokemon you bring in will have an advantageous match-up, which can be very useful to take advantage of Tangrowth's defensive switch-ins, such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Mega Venusaur.

Checks & Counters
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**Fire-types**: Mega Charizard X and Mega Charizard Y are some of the best switch-ins to Tangrowth, being immune to Knock Off's effect and resisting its STAB moves. Aside from Earthquake and Rock Slide, respectively, they have nothing to fear from Tangrowth. Heatran and Talonflame are also good switch-ins, though they both dislike having their item Knocked Off, and both are OHKOed or 2HKOed depending on their sets by Earthquake and Rock Slide, respectively.

**Grass-types**: Mega Venusaur is a foolproof counter to Tangrowth, able to 2HKO with Sludge Bomb and not care about any of Tangrowth's moves. Ferrothorn can take advantage of Tangrowth to set up Stealth Rock, but can't do much back. Amoonguss walls Tangrowth and can beat it thanks to its STAB Poison attacks, but it can't do any significant immediate damage to the Assault Vest variant.

**Steel-types**: Skarmory, Scizor, Heatran, and Ferrothorn can all switch into Tangrowth relatively easily, as long as Tangrowth doesn't carry Hidden Power Fire or Earthquake. Skarmory can set up Stealth Rock, use Toxic, or support its team with Defog, while Mega Scizor can also support its team with Defog or set up with Swords Dance.

**Flying-, Bug-, and Ice-types**: Kyurem-B, Tornadus-T, Mega Pinsir, Mega Heracross, Talonflame, Zapdos, and Togekiss can all switch into Tangrowth with relative ease and beat it one-on-one. Kyurem-B, Togekiss, and Zapdos are the best answers out of these Pokemon, because they don't care care about the occasional Rock Slide and have access to reliable recovery. Togekiss deserves a special mention because it can take advantage of Tangrowth's presence to set up Nasty Plot boosts and pass them to a teammate. Mega Heracross also doesn't care about any of Tangrowth's coverage moves and thus is able to switch in multiple times, making it a great counter.

**Stalling or Boosting Tactics**: Pokemon such as Calm Mind Clefable, Toxic Chansey, SubToxic Gliscor, and Iron Defense Scolipede can all make Tangrowth a liability, even though they can't do any immediate damage to it. They can easily switch into Tangrowth, although Gliscor has to be wary of Hidden Power Ice, and they are able to either slowly KO Tangrowth or set up and then KO it. Scolipede can even pass its boosts to another teammate.
 
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Thoughts on on offensive Life Orb set? Probably using Leaf Storm/Focus Blast/Hidden Power Fire|Sludge Bomb/Sleep Powder or something like that.
 

Colonel M

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Seems slow to be honest but I wouldn't completely knock it out of the question. Maybe mention it with Charizard-Y / Ninetales support too?
 
Thoughts on on offensive Life Orb set? Probably using Leaf Storm/Focus Blast/Hidden Power Fire|Sludge Bomb/Sleep Powder or something like that.
I may be a bit late on this but I have used a LO set with Max HP and Max Special Attack with Leaf Storm/Focus Blast/Sleep Powder/Ancient Power and I find it works really well. Leaf Storm is there for obvious reasons, Focus Blast lets you hit most Steel-types, and I found Ancient Power to be really useful for the Flying-type and Fire/Flying switch-ins. Sleep Powder is also really handy for predicting switches and for opponents who think they can set up on you after the -2 from Leaf Storm.

Just my 2 cents on it
 
Slight nitpick on the EV spread on the Assault Vest set, isn't 252HP / 16Def / 240SpD Relaxed slightly more efficient due to hitting a jump point in Def? Very small and not too important but still.
 

jc104

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To the above: if you are going to nitpick to that extent, you need to specify the IVs used for hidden power. With PS default IVs, for instance, you'll not actually get to the jump point with 16 defense EVs. With 31/31/31/31/31/30, which is better anyway, it'll be fine. While it isn't objectively better than the given spread, I think it is probably a good idea, given that tangrowth is clearly a mixed wall.

I've been using the assault vest set for a little while, and I have to say I was highly impressed. However, I eventually decided to use Leaf Storm rather than Giga Drain, and I think that is at least worthy of a secondary slash. Tangrowth switches a lot for recovery, and has two physical moves, which means that the special attack drop is not critical. The power increase is obviously very significant. Just think: a resisted leaf storm hits almost as hard as a neutral giga drain. And, for instance, it OHKOes Manaphy after SR, allowing you to counter it at full health (yes, you really can tank a +3 Ice Beam).
 

alexwolf

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To the above: if you are going to nitpick to that extent, you need to specify the IVs used for hidden power. With PS default IVs, for instance, you'll not actually get to the jump point with 16 defense EVs. With 31/31/31/31/31/30, which is better anyway, it'll be fine. While it isn't objectively better than the given spread, I think it is probably a good idea, given that tangrowth is clearly a mixed wall.

I've been using the assault vest set for a little while, and I have to say I was highly impressed. However, I eventually decided to use Leaf Storm rather than Giga Drain, and I think that is at least worthy of a secondary slash. Tangrowth switches a lot for recovery, and has two physical moves, which means that the special attack drop is not critical. The power increase is obviously very significant. Just think: a resisted leaf storm hits almost as hard as a neutral giga drain. And, for instance, it OHKOes Manaphy after SR, allowing you to counter it at full health (yes, you really can tank a +3 Ice Beam).
Good point jc104, slashing Leaf Storm after Giga Drain, OHKOing Manaphy and Rotom-W is definitely worth it.
 
I noticed that Azumarill and Tangrowth share their Speed tier, which I think could atleast have a mention in the analysis. With the physically defensive set, Tangrowth gets 3HKOd by CB Play Rough:

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 166-196 (41 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (against Belly Drum, Tangrowth loses cleanly).

Tangrowth could in theory be a good check to Azumarill, but as Azumarill usually runs some speed, Tangrowth should do that too in case it is needed to check Azumarill. The EVs should then most likely be taken from Tangrowth's bulk. If u think that Azumarill is not something Tangrowth should be facing, then u may disregard my notion, but I found the speed tier-thing interesting.
 
Couldn't physically defensive still run Leaf Storm for Rotom-W? I understand checking Manaphy is out of the question but Set Details...?
 

alexwolf

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Couldn't physically defensive still run Leaf Storm for Rotom-W? I understand checking Manaphy is out of the question but Set Details...?
Oh yeah, definitely, though i will slash it after Giga Drain, because without AV, Tangrowth can't check one of Leaf Storm's most important targets, Manaphy.
 
All right, so the new strategy dex is going up very soon and there are several Pokemon, including this one, that do not currently have completed analyses. alexwolf, if you could please try to make this look presentable within the next day, that would be helpful. Please contact user darkie once you've made it look presentable (by that I mean "acceptable to be on-site") and refer to and update this pirate pad: https://www.piratepad.ca/p/dex_skeletons

This needs to be done by tomorrow afternoon (GMT -6), so make sure you get it done! If you can't make it look presentable in the next day, please say so in the pirate pad so someone else can make a quick skeleton of it. Thanks!
 
Why is the Assault Vest set the first mentioned when it's not even close to being one of Tangrowth's best sets?
How isn't it? Wether it's the best set or not is debatable but, other than the physically defensive set I don't see what set would even be viable in OU.
 

AccidentalGreed

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alexwolf it's been a while. Any progress on this? Feel free to discuss on #xyqc if you need to do so.

Also highlight that you're using Leftovers on the phys defensive set for extra recovery and access to Sleep Powder so people don't just slap Assault Vest on there.
 
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alexwolf

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alexwolf it's been a while. Any progress on this? Feel free to discuss on #xyqc if you need to do so.

Also highlight that you're using Leftovers on the phys defensive set for extra recovery and access to Sleep Powder so people don't just slap Assault Vest on there.
Will do, and sorry for the lack of progress on this, i am currently without a computer and working from friends ones.
 

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