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Tangrowth (OU Analysis)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by bugmaniacbob, May 28, 2010.

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  1. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Hello again, I just finished my Chemistry Practical GCSE and thought I'd do something worthwhile with my free time (probably the only bit I'll get from now until mid-June), so I started and finished this analysis in four hours. I tried to make it 'concise' so I hope that this is more 'acceptable' in length than my old Claydol analysis.

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    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/tangrowth
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    [Overview]

    <p>When one considers Tangrowth for use in Standard play, what usually springs to mind is that it is thoroughly overshadowed as a bulky Grass-type by Celebi, and to a lesser extent Shaymin. The former has access to reliable recovery and a Fighting-type resistance, and the latter is a more potent special attacker. Both also have higher Special Defense and Speed, as well as a fantastic ability in the form of Natural Cure.</p>

    <p>However, Tangrowth does have some advantages over his legendary rivals. Although his Special Defense is subpar compared to the other two, he boasts a higher Defense stat. This, together with his high HP, means that he is physically bulkier than Skarmory and Forretress. He also has a higher Special Attack stat and a decent special movepool. While his Attack stat is the same as his rivals, he has access to high-powered physical moves like Power Whip and Earthquake that the others only wish they had. To round things off, he doesn't have Celebi's Pursuit weakness, so he fares much better against Tyranitar. Tangrowth certainly pulls his weight in the Standard metagame, provided that you play him to his strengths.</p>

    [SET]
    name: OU Physical Tank
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Power Whip / Grass Knot
    move 3: Earthquake / Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Knock Off / Stun Spore
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Tangrowth is a decent physical wall and supporter who brings a good deal of advantages to the table. Tangrowth can take on powerful physical attackers such as Tyranitar and Gyarados with his immense Defense stat, and act as a buffer against other physical threats. Tangrowth has some excellent weapons in his arsenal that his legendary rivals Celebi and Shaymin do not, and the bulk of this set is built around these. Sleep Powder incapacitates one Pokemon on your opponent's team, and can be followed up by Stun Spore or Knock Off on the switch-in, allowing Tangrowth to neuter two threats to your team in two turns. Power Whip and Earthquake form Tangrowth's best offensive combination, but he can also go special if you like, though bear in mind that Celebi and Shaymin are both more reliable as special attackers than Tangrowth.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>If Knock Off and Stun Spore do not appeal to you, then Leech Seed can also be a viable alternative for the last moveslot. It is useful to restore some health each turn, especially if you manage to get one of Tangrowth's counters as it switches in, but the amount of health restored is usually very low. This can, however, be of use on a team that takes advantage of residual damage.</p>

    <p>Although Tangrowth's Special Attack is higher than his Attack, he gets a lot of useful physical moves, such as STAB Power Whip, which can easily 2HKO Tyranitar, Gyarados, and Flygon. Tangrowth also gets Earthquake, which can help with Metagross, and even Heatran if you can catch them on the switch. However, going special is always an option, with Grass Knot available for a STAB move and Hidden Power for coverage. Hidden Power Ice and Hidden Power Fire can OHKO Dragonite and Scizor, respectively, with Stealth Rock support.</p>

    <p>Max HP and Defense with Leftovers and an Impish nature are used to maximize defensive ability. Neither Jolly Choice Scarf Tyranitar nor Jolly Choice Scarf Flygon can even 3HKO him with Stone Edge or Outrage. It also means that Adamant Life Orb Gyarados fails to 2HKO with Ice Fang after a Dragon Dance, although Bounce is still an OHKO with Stealth Rock. In return, Tangrowth can 2HKO all of the above with Power Whip. He also has a high chance to survive Adamant Life Orb Lucario's Close Combat after a Swords Dance, even if he switches into Stealth Rock, which allows Tangrowth to OHKO with Earthquake after Close Combat's Defense drop. In addition, Adamant Choice Band Metagross cannot 2HKO with Meteor Mash. If you want to go mixed, a Relaxed nature is advised. Another option is to add 28 EVs to Speed in order to outrun Relaxed Swampert. Also, if you are running a fully special Tangrowth, remember to move the given Attack EVs to Special Attack, and run a Bold nature rather than an Impish nature.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>Wish support from Vaporeon or Blissey can be useful as Tangrowth does not have reliable recovery of his own, and this can improve his survivability quite a bit. Both of them also have considerable synergy with Tangrowth. Blissey can patch up Tangrowth's poor Special Defense thanks to its titanic Special Defense and HP, and can also support with Aromatherapy if need be. Vaporeon and other bulky Water-types such as Suicune also make good partners, as they cover Tangrowth’s Fire- and Ice-type weaknesses, while Tangrowth can cover their Electric- and Grass-type weaknesses. Rotom-A and Zapdos are also both notable for their ability to ward off Scizor and also, in the case of Rotom-A, to block Rapid Spin. In addition, they both benefit from Tangrowth's ability to come in on and beat Tyranitar.</p>

    <p>The acclaimed "CeleTran" combination can also work very well with Tangrowth in place of Celebi. Heatran covers all of Tangrowth's weaknesses, and can beat most of Tangrowth's best counters, including Scizor. In return, Tangrowth covers all of Heatran's weaknesses except for Fighting-type moves, and can stop Pokemon such as Gyarados whom Heatran cannot handle. Although Celebi would seem a more viable partner as it resists Fighting in addition to all of the other types Heatran is weak to, and Heatran covers all of Celebi's weaknesses, Tangrowth does have the benefit of being able to take on Tyranitar, who is a big problem for both Celebi and Heatran.</p>

    <p>Although bulkier teams will prefer teammates for Tangrowth who can deal with his counters, such as the ones listed above, on more offensive teams, it can be beneficial to include sweepers that have the same counters as Tangrowth, given Tangrowth's ability to disable his counters upon switching in. Tangrowth has a tendency to draw out Pokemon such as Heatran, Dragonite, and Scizor, and if any of them are crippled, it can be a very good thing for some Pokemon. Heracross, for example, is less likely to be revenge killed by a paralyzed Heatran or sleeping Scizor, and can hence bypass both of them. Another positive is that Tangrowth can deal with Gyarados, another big threat to Heracross. Other sweepers such as Swords Dance Lucario and Scizor also value this support for the same reasons.</p>

    <p>Tangrowth is in the unfortunate position whereby all of his counters reside at the very top of OU play, and are hence used often in conjunction with one another. Scizor, Dragonite, and Heatran are all very often used alongside one another, and hence Tangrowth will often find that the opponent has a number of answers to him. Tyranitar and Gyarados are both often used alongside the former three, but Tangrowth can usually deal with them adequately. As mentioned above, Rotom-H and Zapdos can deal with Scizor and can also act as secondary checks to Gyarados, but may find themselves struggling against Dragonite and Heatran. These two are difficult to counter, but a bulky Water-type should be able to deal with both; Starmie or Vaporeon can use Surf on Heatran and can also attempt to ward off Dragonite with Ice Beam. If you can lure in and destroy Dragonite or Heatran by using Hidden Power Ice or Earthquake on Tangrowth, the benefits for your team can be very great indeed.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>As mentioned previously, Tangrowth has a vast support movepool itching to be used. Tangrowth can run a Substitute + Leech Seed set, which can be effective as Tangrowth can create 101 HP Substitutes, meaning they cannot be broken by Seismic Toss. Tangrowth can also run Sleep Powder on such a set. However, Shaymin can perform the same trick with better Speed, Special Defense and the same 404 HP stat. Tangrowth can also use Reflect (but not Light Screen) for more support.</p>

    <p>Tangrowth has a number of options for recovery as well. Synthesis can be used, but this is not viable with the prevalence of Tyranitar in Standard coupled with the low PP. Rest + Sleep Talk gives Tangrowth semi-reliable recovery, but uses up half of his available moveslots and leaves him almost a sitting duck for two turns. Lastly, Tangrowth has an interesting option in the form of Pain Split, which divides the HP of Tangrowth and his opponent and shares them equally. Although this may allow Tangrowth to stay alive longer, Tangrowth has such a titanic HP stat that more often than not he will not gain all that much HP for himself, and in some cases may even lose HP to the opponent. Tangrowth also possesses a number of setup moves such as Swords Dance and Sunny Day, which work in tandem with Chlorophyll to turn Tangrowth into a strong sweeper that is a staple on Sunny Day teams. Aside from that, however, Tangrowth isn't doing much sweeping in OU.</p>

    <p>Tangrowth has a massive special movepool that can be called upon at times. Leaf Storm is an extremely powerful STAB attack that can maul almost everything it comes into contact with, but constitutes a free switch for Scizor or Dragonite, as Tangrowth is helpless after using it once. As for other STAB attacks, Energy Ball is more reliable than Grass Knot for consistent damage, but in general the latter deals more damage on average because of how heavy most OU Pokemon are. Giga Drain is also an option to recover a little health after each use, but the low power and low PP mean that this is not ideal. Lastly, SolarBeam can be used on Sunny Day teams, but turns him into bait for Tyranitar. Focus Blast is a very powerful yet very unreliable attack that does a great deal of damage to Tyranitar and Heatran. For other physical attacks that Tangrowth can use, Seed Bomb is, like Energy Ball, a more reliable but much less powerful alternative to Power Whip, while Rock Slide does a good deal of damage to most Flying-types. Finally, Aerial Ace can take out Heracross and Breloom, but doesn't do much aside from that.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>Despite the fact that Tangrowth has five weaknesses, countering him can be difficult because of his wide range of support moves. If Heatran switches in as Tangrowth uses Stun Spore, he will be murdered on the next turn by Earthquake. There are also very few Pokemon who want to switch into Sleep Powder. In general, you will want fast special attackers who can destroy him by exploiting his weak Special Defense, as even strong neutral or resisted attacks will sting him.</p>

    <p>Dragonite is a great check to Tangrowth – he can switch in easily thanks to good defensive stats, a quad Grass-type resistance, and an immunity to Earthquake, only fearing status moves such as Sleep Powder and Stun Spore as well as the rare Hidden Power Ice. He can then set up Dragon Dance or wipe out Tangrowth with Fire Blast or Draco Meteor. Scizor is another potent threat, boasting the same quad Grass-type resistance as Dragonite but is neutral to Earthquake. STAB U-turn makes Tangrowth cry and, if Tangrowth switches out, he can scout the switch-in and keep momentum going for his user. Like with Dragonite, Tangrowth's only hope of winning is to catch him on the switch with status or the rare Hidden Power Fire. Heatran is another with a quad Grass-type resistance, but he also has a quad weakness to Earthquake, so if he walks into the wrong move he can still lose; however, once he is in Tangrowth is roasted by STAB Fire Blast. Another common Pokemon with a 4x resistance to Grass and immunity to Earthquake is Skarmory, who can take almost any attack save Hidden Power Fire, Roost off the damage, and attack back with Brave Bird or simply use Tangrowth as an opportunity to set up Spikes if Sleep Clause is active.</p>

    <p>Other Pokemon with super effective STAB moves or useful resistances, such as Gengar, Infernape, Heracross, Weavile, and Roserade should all perform excellently as well. Remember that Tangrowth's offense isn't really all that great, so if someone can take hits and attack back, there is very little Tangrowth can do to stop them, especially if Sleep Clause has been activated.</p>

    -----------------------------------------

    Post-critique changes:

    - Grammar check 1, thanks to zyrefredric.
    - Grammar check 2, thanks to firecape01.
    - "OU Physical Wall" renamed "OU Physical Tank"
    - Removed Salamence
    - GP Grammar Check 1, thanks to Dr. Reid
    - GP Grammar Check 2, thanks to Fuzznip
    - GP Grammar Check 3, thanks to jc104
  2. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    Honestly, I'm not too sure on Synthesis. Sleep Powder + Stun Spore sounds more enticing than Sleep Powder + Synthesis. You're able to remove one threat with Sleep Powder and cripple another with Stun Spore.

    Might want to consider splitting the sets. Not sure though.
  3. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
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    This statement could be more strongly emphasized with Forretress mentioned in place of Skarmory, as Forretress obviously has more Defense thanks to equal base Defense but more base HP.
  4. Phantom_IV

    Phantom_IV

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    The stun spore bit is kinda misleading, as Celebi gets Thunder Wave. Perhaps mention that Knock Off is a great move to scout the set of its switch-in as well as seriously dampening it's sweeping or walling potential.
  5. zyrefredric

    zyrefredric

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    this is my first grammar check, so you might not agree with some of the changes i made. i rephrased some, and generally made it more concise. also, i feel that the analysis went too much on trying to differentiate tangrowth and celebi, so maybe tone down on that a bit. i'm doubtful with some of the OHKOs, 2HKOs and 3HKOs that were mentioned. i did not calculate them, but maybe you could add some calculations? i could check the whole analysis if you are interested..


  6. Setsuna

    Setsuna Prototype
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    There is a set on-site which is pretty similar to this one, so maybe an update was the way to go from the very beginning IMO. In addition to this, I can see this set having its own space in Quality Control for further testing, though this is not precisely the case.

    EDIT: It seems like another update is going on here. That one comprises this set (or a similar one) and others, so I don't see the reason for keeping this thread here. In any event, it wouldn't hurt if the poster could weigh in on this matter.
  7. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    I'm not entirely sure what you mean here. Could you elaborate slightly, please?
  8. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
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    This is fine Setsuna. Bob, once this gets two GP checks and a mod's approval, please just merge it with your full Tangrowth analysis so they can all be uploaded at once.
  9. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    Well I have nothing to do, so I thought I would try a grammar check. Sorry if its bad.

    Changes in Bold
    Removes in Red
    Parenthesis are a side comment

    Gp check (open)



    I gave it a shot, hope it helped.
  10. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    I'm hesitant to call Tangrowth a "wall" when it has no recovery. I think Tank is more appropriate.

    Also, Tangrowth has potential for a great tank attacking set based of those offensive stats and pure movepool. It does get Sleep Powder / Leafstorm / Grass Knot Focus Blast / Power Whip / Earthquake / Rock Slide / Sunny Day / Hidden Power Fire / Ancientpower.. That is a pretty great movepool for your average grass pokemon. Also, she has very high base stats.

    I think she could use a Stand alone Sunny Day set effectively, since Tyranitar can easily be dealth with.
  11. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Implemented all grammar corrections, many thanks.

    @RaikouLover: I'm not terribly fond of Sunny Day sets in general - I do know that Tangrowth is generally a staple on Sunny Day teams, but from my experience he generally has pretty bad 4MSS, especially on offensive sets, so I'd question the viability of a standalone Sunny Day sweeper, especially in OU. If others could weigh in here that would be great.

    Still need grammar checks.
  12. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
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    GP CHECK 1/2
    Additions in Bold, Deletions in Red
    [​IMG]

    Great job, two things:

    Watch the Mence mentions now- see if you can't make it even smoother than I did.

    Watch the incorrect apostrophes.
  13. Namso

    Namso
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    Hello!

    Grammar-Prose Check 2 of
    3.


    This analysis has some verbose material, so I tried my best to concise it as much as possible without losing any valuable information. Now because of the changes I've made into my proofread, I'd like to request a third GP check to make sure that the updated version is good to go.

    Great job with the analysis bmb.

    [​IMG]
  14. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    GP Check 3/3

    [​IMG]
  15. bugmaniacbob

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    Okay, I think this is done. As per this:

    I've merged this analysis with my full analysis in the UU subforum, so I guess this thread serves little purpose now. If it could be moved to L&O to stop it clogging up the forum, then that would be great.
  16. Setsuna

    Setsuna Prototype
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