Koko lacks a physical STAB that doesnt induce recoil. Blame GF for relying on Wild Charge, while Zekrom is still the only mon that has a decent one. Koko offers a lot of utility and is Pokémon that you usually need from early to late game, which is why taking recoil, on top of Subpar bulk is a bad idea. It seems appealing at first, because you get Brave Bird too, and Elec/Flying sure is decent coverage, but you'll see yourself walled by more threats than the Special set is. And if you can't kill in one hit the Pokémon you're facing (even though max attack Wild Charge in elec terrain is quite busted), you're usually getting KOed back, thanks to the recoil of WC and BB.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Tapu Koko
- Thread starter blank
- Start date
- Status
I don't think there's anything a fully physical set can beat that a mixed set with BB can't.
All good points, I've been using Special and Mixed sets recently and the power is pretty staggering.
Still, I feel like a Z-move can be used to patch up the lack of a decent STAB, at least to some extent. I've been having some success with Flyium-Z Gyarados recently, for example
Still, I feel like a Z-move can be used to patch up the lack of a decent STAB, at least to some extent. I've been having some success with Flyium-Z Gyarados recently, for example
Lack of a "decent" STAB?
252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Electric Terrain: 178-211 (52.1 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Xurkitree Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 183-216 (53.6 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Electric Terrain lets Tapu Koko hit almost as hard as a Pokemon with base 173 Special Attack.
Unless you were actually talking about its Fairy STAB...
I think, and I might be wrong, they were talking about a lack of a decent physical stab, with Wild Charge's recoil being too much to bare, and the absence of play rough from Koko's move pool.
Yes, I was talking about its physical STABs. Its physical movepool leaves much to be desired, especially compared to its special one, which is always frustrating on a 'mon with higher attack. My point was that the appropriate Z-move can go some way to mitigating this shortcoming, meaning that physical or mixed sets may not necessarily be as bad as you think.
Continuing with Siggu's Mew example:
0 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Electric Terrain: 165-195 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Electric Terrain: 318-375 (93.2 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
An un-invested Wild Charge isn't far off a fully invested Thunderbolt, and the usefulness of this fact increases when you consider that people will generally be switching things into Tapu Koko that are bulkier on the special side than the physical side. The use of the Z-crystal increases the power of this attack by almost 100%, as well as being re-coil free. Yes, it's one use only, but considering that this isn't conventional, it's a shot you'll likely be able to make the most of.
Continuing with Siggu's Mew example:
0 Atk Tapu Koko Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Electric Terrain: 165-195 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Tapu Koko Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Electric Terrain: 318-375 (93.2 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
An un-invested Wild Charge isn't far off a fully invested Thunderbolt, and the usefulness of this fact increases when you consider that people will generally be switching things into Tapu Koko that are bulkier on the special side than the physical side. The use of the Z-crystal increases the power of this attack by almost 100%, as well as being re-coil free. Yes, it's one use only, but considering that this isn't conventional, it's a shot you'll likely be able to make the most of.
Last edited:
That's not even close to being true. Elec/flying coverage is really good and BB allows Koko to break through all those bulky grasses that otherwise wall it like Tangrowth, Amoonguss, and Mega Venusaur. While it might generally be the inferior option due to recoil from Wild Charge, it's a cool lure and it actually hits a little harder too.
edit: @below my bad, misread the post. Ignore this.
Last edited:
You missed the point. He was saying that fully physical koko doesn't beat anything that mixed koko with brave bird can't. Invested wild charge hits a bit harder than tbolt, yes, but what OHKO/2HKOs does it achieve that thunderbolt can't? The one application I can think of is doing a ton of damage to the pink eggs, but you're basically killing yourself with recoil. You also miss out on hidden power fire/ice, which are also "cool lures," especially ice, which hits one of the most popular pokemon in the tier. Again, what are you hitting with wild charge that tbolt can't already beat?
Has anyone tried Koko with Tapium-Z and Guardian of Alola (Nature's Madness)? 75% is a huge chunk of HP to take off anything (with it being 100% accurate, it will happen barring a protect), and you can then prepare coverage to ensure the 2HKO (e.g. Wild Charge then becomes an effective means of taking down Chansey without hideous recoil) or even without coverage things Alolan-Marowak is usually easily handled by Dazzling Gleam after Rocks and 75% of it's remaining 75% has been taken off (81.25% total).
While there are assuredly other very good Z-moves out there, it just feels like an extremely trivial way to weaken your checks on the switch to a range where they can no longer effectively check you. If there's one thing Koko excels at, it strongly encourages a manual switch into types that can take/are immune to electric moves - to me this just feels like a way of bypassing those checks which can really mess up your opponent. Even if something does go wrong, you're taking 75% off something, which is never going to be bad.
While there are assuredly other very good Z-moves out there, it just feels like an extremely trivial way to weaken your checks on the switch to a range where they can no longer effectively check you. If there's one thing Koko excels at, it strongly encourages a manual switch into types that can take/are immune to electric moves - to me this just feels like a way of bypassing those checks which can really mess up your opponent. Even if something does go wrong, you're taking 75% off something, which is never going to be bad.
- Status