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Tatooine Skies

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by dwarfstar, Sep 1, 2013.

  1. dwarfstar

    dwarfstar mindless philosopher
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    [​IMG]

    Greetings, all. I've been playing competitively for about four years now and lurking here on the Smogon forums for two, and this is my favorite among the teams I've built so far. I've always been a fan of odd or underused Pokemon and playstyles, so when BW2 rolled around, I decided to abandon the sand and create a sun team that wasn't just Ninetales/Venusaur/Dugtrio/spinner/Fire-type/filler. The beta version was substantially restructured following a loss to Lavos Spawn (I'll edit with the teambuilding process later), and the current team has brought me moderate success. I figured now was as good a time as any to show my crew off for all of you and see if there was any way to improve the team. So, without further ado, I present the lords of the Tatooine skies!


    ----------------​


    [​IMG]
    Gecinse (Ninetales) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 88 HP / 252 SAtk / 168 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Solarbeam
    - Sunny Day
    - Will-O-Wisp

    The star of the team, Gecinse is here to summon the sunlight upon which the rest of the crew relies. I opted to use a semi-offensive set when I made the team because I was reluctant to go fully defensive with my weather inducer after a couple of years playing with Tyraniboah, and for the most part she's performed very well - although the team itself enjoys only moderate success on the whole, I win the weather war upwards of 90% of the time without relying on a trapper. Fire Blast is the strongest attack that Ninetales can learn, so it was the obligatory STAB. Will-O-Wisp is one of the most useful moves I've ever worked with, despite its bad accuracy, and has won me more weather wars than pretty much any other factor outside of U-turn shenanigans. Once I've burned the opposing weather starter on the first switch-in, I can set up Sunny Day on subsequent switches and dent it or scare it out with the threat of Solarbeam. In addition to being a weapon against Water-, Rock-, and Ground-types, Solarbeam also breaks the Balloons of predicted Heatran switch-ins, which enables the rest of the team to deal with them more quickly. Maxing out the Special Attack EVs is necessary on any offensive set. The Speed EVs were meant to outrun something specific, although I don't remember what it was anymore. I dumped the rest into HP, and in conjunction with Leftovers, they allow Gecinse to survive some attacks that she otherwise couldn't.
    Name origin: Gecinse is an anagram of the name of a good friend of mine.


    [​IMG]
    Sekot (Lilligant) (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 60 Def / 196 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Leaf Storm
    - Healing Wish
    - Sleep Powder
    - Hidden Power [Rock]

    Ordinarily, I'd have used Venusaur in this slot, since it's indisputably excellent on sun teams (and very cool, too; it's the best of the first-gen starters by far). However, as I was pondering the best Pokemon to replace the Latias I had in this slot before, I stumbled across an old RMT featuring a utility Lilligant, and I decided to give her a shot. Nobody seems to remember that Lilligant can do anything outside of Quiver Dance sweeping, but my experience has led me to the conclusion that utility Lilligant is one of the most underrated Grass-types in competitive play. She doesn't need to set up to pack a punch - a Life Orb-boosted Leaf Storm nets a guaranteed OHKO on Choice Band Tyranitar IN A SANDSTORM and all variants of Politoed, and deals massive damage to anything that doesn't resist it and isn't a pink blob. She's neutered offensively after she uses it, but that's an acceptable tradeoff. Hidden Power Rock gives Sekot an attack option that doesn't force her out, and it does major damage to most of the Pokemon that have STABs supereffective on her (it's especially useful for dealing with Moxiemence and Volcarona, which would otherwise be very annoying). On the rare occasions when Sleep Powder actually hits, it gives the team much-needed breathing room, so it's quite valuable. The real reason I use Lilligant over Venusaur, however, is Healing Wish - although it pains me to sacrifice Sekot, very little is more satisfying than fully restoring a battered Salamence or Heatran and steamrolling the enemy team. Too funny to pass up. Special Attack is maxed out, 60 EVs are invested in Defense so Sekot can survive an Ice Shard from Adamant Life Orb Mamoswine if she's starting at max HP, and the rest of the EVs are placed in Speed so she can run circles around everything when the sun is shining.
    Name origin: Sekot is the spirit of the sentient planet Zonama Sekot (reference: Star Wars: Rogue Planet, "New Jedi Order" novel series).


    [​IMG]
    Adegan (Starmie) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Analytic
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Psyshock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Ice Beam

    Every sun team needs to get rid of those annoying Stealth Rocks, and I maintain Starmie can spin with the best of them. While it's fairly frail compared to the Donphan and Forretress usually seen on sun teams nowadays, it brings a crucial speed advantage and offensive presence to the table that makes up for the lack of bulk, and its fantastic coverage means I don't miss its Water STAB at all. Thunderbolt is great for hitting Water-types if I don't want to risk switching Sekot in. Ice Beam rounds out Adegan's neutral coverage and blasts potentially troublesome Dragons out of the picture. Psyshock provides a fun way to take out Terrakion and Gengar and makes dealing with Jellicent and Blissey much easier. The EVs are standard for an offensive Starmie; nothing special here.
    Name origin: Adegan gems mined in the ice caves of Ilum are often used as focusing crystals in lightsabers.


    [​IMG]
    Mustafar (Heatran) (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Stealth Rock

    Mustafar has been on every non-VGC team I've made in my entire competitive career. He's just that awesome. Heatran's fantastic defensive typing and Flash Fire allow it to check all sorts of opponents, and the threat of a sun-boosted STAB Fire Blast is enough to send anything that doesn't resist it and isn't a pink blob running for the hills. Earth Power provides nice coverage alongside Fire Blast and allows Mustafar to deal with opposing Heatran; this is standard fare. I use Dragon Pulse over Hidden Power Ice because it does more damage to Black Kyurem, Latios and Latias, which threaten my team much more than the other Dragons rampaging around the OU tier. (Fantastic natural bulk helps out with that - for reference, a healthy offensive Heatran in a sandstorm can tank Life Orb Latios' Surf and has a 56.25% chance to survive the same attack from Choice Specs Latios, and he brushes both off in the sunlight.) Stealth Rock is... Stealth Rock. You know the drill. The EVs are standard for an offensive Heatran; I chose a Timid nature over Modest because I deemed Speed more important than power. The Balloon allows Mustafar to straight-up murder Hippowdon and deal with Dragons much more easily if I can keep it intact.
    Name origin: Mustafar is a planet undergoing constant volcanic activity (this is where Obi-Wan Kenobi and Darth Vader fought at the end of Revenge of the Sith).


    [​IMG]
    Krayt (Salamence) (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast

    When Krayt rears his head, something usually dies. Scarf Moxiemence is all the rage nowadays, but the Dragon Dance set has always served me well. Being able to boost your Attack and Speed and smash things without needing to rely so much on prediction is a very appealing thought. Krayt's Brooklyn Rage (er, Outrage) breaks holes in all sorts of things, and is the team's only reliable method of dealing with Eviolite Chansey. Earthquake allows him to smash most of the Steel-types around and does more damage to Tyranitar (although, sadly, +1 Earthquake can't OHKO CB-tar). Fire Blast takes Ferrothorn and Skarmory out of the picture (the latter after Stealth Rock or U-turn damage), and hits for decent damage on other things if the sun is shining. The EV spread is standard fare, and a Naive nature over Hasty allows Krayt to take Bullet Punches a little better. The Lum Berry gets rid of Outrage confusion or a more debilitating status condition.
    Name origin: Krayt dragons are colossal reptilian predators native to Tatooine.


    [​IMG]
    Arjun (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    IVs: 30 Spd
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Great defensive typing, decent bulk and natural Speed, Intimidate, a colossal base 145 Attack stat, and a beautiful movepool combine to make Sacred Beast Landorus one of the best Scarfers ever to exist. Earthquake and Stone Edge give Arjun fantastic neutral coverage, while Hidden Power Ice allows him to screw over Gliscor, Dragons, and opposing Landorus. U-turn is great for dealing with Lati@s and Tyranitar, and the offensive momentum it generates is crucial for a relatively frail team like this one. He's a solid revenge killer and a great annoyer. The nature and EVs are standard. Leading with Arjun allows me to bluff opponents into thinking he's running a defensive set, which often nets me an early kill or dents something as I shift to a Pokemon with a better matchup. Outside of Gecinse, Arjun is likely the most valuable player on my team.
    Name origin: Arjun is the name of a good friend of mine.


    ----------------

    Here's my crew in all its glory. While a bit unorthodox, they work pretty well together. That being said, any feedback or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. May the Force be with you (OK, I'm done with the Star Wars stuff now, I swear).

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
  2. bobismoi

    bobismoi

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    I really do like this team a lot, as well as the Star Wars references, lol.

    Your Landorus set is really cool, and I'm glad there's someone not using the bulky set.

    However on the Heatran, you should really consider replacing Dragon Pulse with HP Ice. It KOs the things that Dragon Pulse would KO and then some. Gliscor and opposing Lando-T could give this team problems, but HP Ice 1 or 2HKOs them allowing your other pokes to destroy your opponents team.

    I would also recommend running Energy Ball over Solarbeam on Tails. If Politoed or Tyranitar switch in and set up their own weather, SolarBeam will have to charge, giving them free turns to do what they want.

    I really do like the team, and it is one of the better sun teams I've seen in quite a while.

    Hope i helped :D
  3. dwarfstar

    dwarfstar mindless philosopher
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    @bobismoi: Thanks for the rate! Solarbeam over Energy Ball isn't really an issue on Ninetales, since it's generally very easy to predict when Politoed/Tyranitar/Hippowdon is coming in and use Sunny Day that turn, which gets rid of the charge turn. The extra reliability factor of Energy Ball is appealing, but the move is extremely weak coming off of a base 81 Special Attack stat, and any Ninetales who isn't going fully defensive can't afford that power drop. With regard to HP-Ice over Dragon Pulse, Latios and Latias are a much bigger problem for the team than Gliscor and Landorus, and HP-Ice just can't do the job against them. Some calculations for reference:

    252 SpA Heatran HP-Ice vs 0/4 Latios: 47.18% - 55.81% (needs Stealth Rock to guarantee the 2HKO)
    252 SpA Heatran Dragon Pulse vs 0/4 Latios: 59.8% - 71.1% (guaranteed 2HKO)
    252 SpA Heatran HP-Ice vs 252/0 Latias: 34.07% - 40.11% (guaranteed 3HKO)
    252 SpA Heatran Dragon Pulse vs 252/0 Latias: 43.41% - 51.1% (3.52% chance to 2HKO, somewhat higher chance after Stealth Rock)

    Gliscor is basically a non-issue if Mustafar's Balloon is intact, as it's cleanly OHKO'd by a sun-boosted Fire Blast, and Adegan's Ice Beam shreds it anyway. Likewise, any Landorus set can be picked off with Ice Beam, although I have to be more careful playing around it so I don't eat a supereffective U-turn (and the Scarf set is so dangerous that I wind up using Sekot to deal with it anyway).
  4. dwarfstar

    dwarfstar mindless philosopher
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    Post #200 will be a list of things that scare my team.

    [​IMG]CHANSEY: Words cannot express how annoying this thing is. The only way I can deal with Chansey is if Krayt has already danced at least once and has an intact Lum Berry when it comes onto the field, since even a +1 Outrage (the most powerful attack my team has) won't OHKO the blob and it can cripple the entire team with Thunder Wave.

    [​IMG]BLISSEY: Much less of a problem than Chansey, since a +1 Outrage from Krayt nets a guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Arjun's Earthquake nets a guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Still annoying, though.

    [​IMG]DRAGONITE: I must get SR down early and take out the enemy's spinner if I see this thing in Team Preview, because if Multiscale isn't broken, then the Dragon Dance set and the parashuffler will both be very annoying. With Stealth Rock up it's basically a non-issue, since Adegan's Ice Beam destroys all Dragonite and I have a couple of backup attacks against it, but if I'm not careful I'm liable to get swept.

    [​IMG]REUNICLUS: Outside of the rare sun-stall, sun teams are very weak to Trick Room, and mine is no exception. Reuniclus is undoubtedly the best TR-mon in existence, and my team is basically dead if I let it set up. At least it gives me something cute to look at as I get ripped apart... That's something, right?

    [​IMG]ALAKAZAM: This depends on Alakazam's teammates, really. If it's on a weatherless team and doesn't have teammates that I desperately need to burn (or a weather team with the inducer already dead), then I usually let Gecinse take it out with two Fire Blasts because losing her to a crit hurts me least if the weather war is won and she's got decent special bulk (Psychic from the standard Sash Alakazam never 2HKOs once Leftovers recovery is factored in). If it's got weather-inducing teammates that I haven't beat yet, then I usually end up having to sacrifice Adegan to let Arjun come in safely, at which point a U-turn/Fire Blast combo takes it out of the picture.

    [​IMG]NINJASK: Laugh if you want, but it's pretty annoying. The best I can manage early-game is switching to Sekot and letting Hidden Power Rock end the thing. If it passes Speed boosts to... well, almost anything... then my team has problems. Getting Stealth Rock down usually stops it from doing its job multiple times, which is enough for the mid-to-late-game.

    [​IMG]GENGAR: This is only a problem if Adegan is dead or has to switch into it (if Gengar comes in on Adegan, which happens far more often than it should, Psyshock will just OHKO any non-Scarf variant). At that point, I have to either put it to sleep (much easier said than done) or hope I have Gecinse available to sacrifice for a Fire Blast hit.

    [​IMG]GOTHITELLE: Depends on what it comes in on. It has trouble taking my attacks, but if it manages to Trick a Scarf onto something, then I might have some issues.

    [​IMG]HEATRAN: It all depends on whether its Balloon is broken. If so, then it's pretty easy to handle, regardless of whether it's offensive or defensive. If not, then I lose important momentum.

    [​IMG]TERRAKION: Depends on what it comes in on and whether it has a live weather inducer on its team. If it's on a weatherless team or its Tyranitar/Politoed/Hippowdon partner is down, I can sac Gecinse and revenge-kill with the appropriate Pokemon. If it comes in on Krayt below +2 or on Mustafar, then I switch to Arjun or sacrifice someone.

    [​IMG]JIRACHI: Generally not a problem unless it comes in on Adegan or Sleep Powder misses, in which case it's extremely annoying.

    [​IMG]BLACK KYUREM: I have the Speed advantage, so Scarf-Cube is the only one that really gives me trouble. The rest of the sets can be burned or OHKO'd (barring a missed attack).

    [​IMG]VOLCARONA: Get SR down and take out the spinner. Barring that, Mustafar can weaken it if his Balloon is intact or the moth isn't carrying HP-Ground. Sekot and Arjun can both handle it if it's unboosted, and Adegan's Psyshock damages it enough that Sekot's HP-Rock takes it out even at +1.

    [​IMG]LATIOS: I rely on Mustafar for this guy. He can tank any of Latios' moves except a rain-boosted Surf (or Earthquake from the DD variant, but that's incredibly rare) and deal heavy damage with Dragon Pulse. If Latios isn't Scarfed or is already at -2, then Arjun can smash him with U-turn and Adegan can do major damage with Ice Beam. If all else fails, Sekot can put him to sleep so the rest of the team can hammer away at him.

    [​IMG]LATIAS: She's actually easier to handle than her brother if Arjun is healthy, since U-turn followed by Mustafar's Dragon Pulse will end all Latias.

    [​IMG]MAMOSWINE: If it switches in on something other than Gecinse or Sekot, I usually end up having to sacrifice something so Sekot can come in and hit it with Leaf Storm. I try to keep her out of the fight as long as I can if I see Mamoswine in Team Preview and invest a bit in her Defense solely because this thing is so annoying.

    [​IMG]POLITOED: Only really an issue if it's Scarftoed. Otherwise, I can play around it fairly easily.

    [​IMG]TYRANITAR: A little harder to deal with than Politoed, but again, it's only a major threat if it's Scarfed (or if Will-O-Wisp misses).

    [​IMG]SALAMENCE: Keep Stealth Rock down at all times and find an opportunity to switch Sekot or Arjun in (or Mustafar, if his Balloon is intact).

    [​IMG]CRESSELIA: Very uncommon, but also very annoying. My best bet is to put her to sleep and wear her down with U-turn/Fire Blast/Outrage.

    [​IMG]JELLICENT: The easiest way to take it out is Leaf Storm, but barring that, I can figure out whether it's running a physically or specially defensive spread. Once that's done, I just hammer it with the appropriate move until it goes down.

    [​IMG]PORYGON2: I just have to hope that I get a crit, or that Krayt has danced enough times to 2HKO with Outrage. Second only to Chansey in terms of annoyance factor on the defensive side.
  5. bobismoi

    bobismoi

    Joined:
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    Well I guess I can't argue with calcs like those xD.

    I did this rate at about 7:00 this morning, so i was too tired to be bothered with running calcs.

    I can imagine how nightmarish Chansey could potentially be for this team, but she is relatively easy to play around if your team is in good enough shape.

    Oh, and when I suggested HP Ice on Tran, I didn't even notice that Starmie had Ice Beam (derrrr).

    You could do with a Water STAB on Star, to make Tyranitar or Hippowdon easier to KO, but other than that there really is no further use for a Water STAB.

    So good luck with the team, and bye :D
  6. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Hi DarthMissingno, sorry it took me so long to get to rating this. It's an incredibly solid team and I wasn't quite sure what to change without ruining the vibe of the team as a whole.

    The only major threat I see to the team is Mamoswine. After one round of Life Orb and Rocks, Lilligant is OHKO'd by Ice Shard from Mamoswine, and you said in your own threatlist that Lilligant is the Pokémon you use to KO it. Not the most reliable answer to a Pokémon as dangerous as Mamoswine. I mean you have 3 Pokémon weak to Ice (two of which are x4) and 2 weak to Ground. you only have one Pokémon that resists Ice that isn't weak to Ground, and that's Starmie. Unfortunately, a weakness to Mamoswine is usually something that just comes with using a sun team. However, I think that a simple way of beating it more easily is simply to use Hydro Pump w/Life Orb over Psyshock or Thunderbolt on Starmie. Yes, it is much weaker in the sun, but it is still a guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock. I understand, though, that Hydro Pump is probably not an option you want to use, since Mamo can technically be played around by using Intimidate and mind games between Landorus and Starmie. But it would make it much easier to deal with.

    I see rain teams as being incredibly annoying to face. Starmie can do a number to your team if Ninetales dies. Keldeo can waltz all over the team as well with the appropriate coverage move or if it's using the Expert Belt set. I like the use of Healing Wish to make sure that Ninetales stays alive for as long as possible, but I feel like your team could use extra insurance. I would switch Heatran to a Weather trapper set. With this, you can easily trap Politoed on the switch and make sure it gets either severely weakened to the point where it can't switch in as much anymore, or KO it outright with Sunny Day + SolarBeam. Either way, Heatran would makes ure your sun stays as long as possible, and between Healing Wish and Heatran, the opponent will find it hard to shut down your sun.

    Once again, this is a really good team! Hope I was able to help, good luck!

    set (open)

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Timid / Modest Nature
    - Magma Storm
    - SolarBeam
    - Sunny Day
    - Earth Power / Hidden Power Ice

    OPTIONAL
    Psyshock/Leftovers--->Hydro Pump/Life Orb



    Jaiho likes this.
  7. dwarfstar

    dwarfstar mindless philosopher
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    @Halcyon.: Thanks for the rate, man! I've got specific reasons for running the moves I do on Starmie, so that part isn't going to change. I run Leftovers now because I'm worried about getting a spin off multiple times, but since Starmie tends to die pretty quickly against sand teams anyway, I'm open to testing out the Life Orb. I'm worried about changing the set on Heatran because he can't do much to Lati@s without Dragon Pulse and can't touch opposing Heatran without Earth Power, but I'll definitely test it out. I haven't lost the weather war to a rain team in a very long time, but I'm intrigued by the potential to trap and kill other threats. I'll let you know how it turns out!
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2013
  8. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    The last slot is totally interchangeable, which I guess I didn't really mention in my rate. If you want to run Dragon Pulse in the last slot, that would be totally fine!
    Jaiho likes this.
  9. dwarfstar

    dwarfstar mindless philosopher
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    I've run some tests, and I think I'll be sticking with my original Heatran set. The trapper left my team rather weak to Lati@s when I ran Earth Power and weak to opposing Heatran when I ran Dragon Pulse.

    The Life Orb (and my own subsequent ability change to Analytic) on Starmie did very nicely against Jellicent. I'll keep that. Thanks, @Halcyon.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013

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