1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Gen 1 Tauros or Golem?

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Sorlin, Mar 9, 2010.

  1. Sorlin

    Sorlin

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    17
    Trying to decide on a solid physical sweeper on my team.

    Exeggutor
    ~ Sleep Powder
    ~ Psychic
    ~ Mega Drain / Double-Edge / Stun Spore
    ~ Explosion

    Alakazam
    ~ Psychic
    ~ Thunder Wave
    ~ Recover
    ~ Reflect / Seismic Toss / Kinesis

    Zapdos
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Drill Peck
    ~ Thunder Wave
    ~ Agility / Rest / Thunder / Mimic

    Starmie
    ~ Blizzard / Surf
    ~ Thunder Wave
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Recover

    Golem
    ~ Body Slam
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Rock Slide
    ~ Explosion

    OR

    Tauros
    ~ Body Slam
    ~ Hyper Beam
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Blizzard






    Chansey
    ~ Softboiled
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Thunderbolt
    ~ Thunder Wave
  2. waterwizard

    waterwizard

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    138
    No RBY team should be without Tauros, Chansey, and Exeggutor.
  3. Crystal_

    Crystal_
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    872
    Both are good options. Tauros is always good but without a normal resistor, you may have some problems. I think for your team is better Golem (or Rhydon). You have a lot of paralysis support in 4-5 Pokemon which makes Golem better in battle.
  4. gunbladelad

    gunbladelad

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Messages:
    305
    The downside to using Golem would be that half of your team would be weak to Ice Moves. I'd go for Tauros on that basis - you don't want half your squad dying from the 1 weakness.
  5. david stone

    david stone Fast-moving, smart, sexy and alarming.
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,150
    Chansey is easily left off a Gen 1 team. It's really not anything special. Starmie + Snorlax cover anything you'd use Chansey for, and both are useful.
  6. Hipmonlee

    Hipmonlee Have a rice day
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    7,327
    Well as much as I agree that you dont need Chansey, I wouldnt suggest that using Starmie and Snorlax is going to offer anything like the level of protection you get from having a Chansey.

    When not using Chansey, you just need to be prepared to sacrifice against Starmie, and because of that its probably not a great idea to use Golem or Rhydon.

    Have a nice day.
  7. Borat

    Borat

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    766
    obi probably forgot Snorlax's special is 228 in RBY.
  8. ultimifier

    ultimifier

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,095
    i dont see the necessity for executor, chansey, alakazam AND chansey. lose one of the above four pokemon and use tauros AND golem (or rhydon)
  9. magickzzl

    magickzzl

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    254
    I love my golems, so thats my vote. way back when they did the pokemon 2000 league I rocked with alakazam, gengar and golem (shows for little I knew, and that dark didn't exsist). Wipe out any grass and water that threaten him with zapados and starmie and let him blow through!
  10. green_flash

    green_flash

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    Messages:
    176
    I've experimented without chansey a lot. With the result being horrible fail... nothing can be even remotely compared to her, and nothing is going to replace her. Refuse to include Chansey, and you'll just lose to STarmie, really. Exeggutor, on the other hand, while surely one of the most useful Pokémon in RBY, still is a lot more easily replaceable than the other two.

    also snorlax just sucks at taking special hits, like everything else in rby (bar chansey). starmie even has around 15% chance to 2hko him.
  11. Jon

    Jon

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    43
    Golem looks better than Tauros imo. So pick him.
  12. waterwizard

    waterwizard

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    138
    that's helpful, jon ;)

    a team without Tauros and Chansey will lose most every time.
  13. Clefairy{m}

    Clefairy{m}

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    Messages:
    410
    The simple answer is. Golem isn't a physical sweeper, Rhydon is.

    Why does Chansey need Thunderbolt again? Chansey needs Seismic toss in order to beat things like Alakazam and Hypno, who have high special defense. Starmie, Cloyster and Tentacruel aren't going to make a dent in Chansey anyway, so Seismic toss is more than enough.
    Seismic toss also helps a little with pokes using Amnesia.

    Consider using Blizzard over Ice beam. Blizzard hits Golem and Rhydon much harder when you predict it's switch in's (people tend to send them out early game to absorb thunder wave). Making them alot easier to take down later on.

    Blizzard also does quite abit to Tauros. Every extra damage counts in RBY. Blizzard does more to Hypno and Alakazam aswell, compared to Seismic Toss. So once you get their health down to a low enough amount, try your luck and use Blizzard. Hopefully they'll be fully paralyzed, giving you the kill (where as with Seismic Toss's strict 100 hp damage, they would have been able to recover their health the next turn. Unless they paralyzed twice)
  14. jvl101993

    jvl101993

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    52
    But the main thing about Chansey is that if it's not spreading paralysis, it's aiming for a freeze chance: 16 PP of Ice Beam has more chances of getting a freeze than 8 PP of Blizzard with 90% accuracy. I don't remember people using Chansey for damage output: it just walls Special Attackers like Zam while spreading Paralysis and occasionally getting a freeze.

    Thunderbolt and Seismic Toss are just personal preference. If you're going to use Chansey as a Special Wall, you're going to want some consistent way to take out Special Attackers like Zam, Starmie, and the occasional Mewtwo (if you ever face this thing), where Seismic Toss may help. I personally went with Thunderbolt because my Chansey has a Special DV of 14, so 306 Special Attack with great neutral coverage from Ice Beam and Thunderbolt, along with an instant healing move with a way to spread paralysis seems very appealing, and it helps me as Starmie is my sole Electric User and Mewtwo is my sole Ice User (of course, I play Stadium).
  15. Yehom

    Yehom

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    481
    Tauros is absolutely the superior choice. Golem is too slow and the 4x weakness against both Grass and Water-typed moves isn't helping.

    Besides, Golem has only 10 Base Attack stat more then Tauros, while Tauros has 65 Base Speed stat more then Golem
  16. jvl101993

    jvl101993

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    52
    And on topic, Golem can double up as a Physical Wall and a Physical Sweeper. A Wall is something your team needs somewhat (Eggy and Zapdos can't cover all the Physical Sweepers). Just spread around Paralysis, and if you fear Mega Drain/Surf/Hydro Pump, switch to Chansey to wall if you must. Just watch out for predictions that can go wrong.
  17. green_flash

    green_flash

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    Messages:
    176
    golem doesn't wall ANYTHING in rby bar the occasional zapdos (dodrio/jolteon aren't common at all, really). so golem is not a wall; also, nothing besides chansey is a wall in rby (no leftovers just hinders defensive capabilities THAT much). add that you don't *NEED* a wall just because "it is a wall" (going for every gen), and the result will be pretty clear; just run tauros, so that you can either take out 2-4 opponents' pokémon or match-up their tauros, before having your own bull taken down.
  18. 420

    420

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    245
    What exactly does Golem wall besides electrics?
  19. Jigglez

    Jigglez

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2009
    Messages:
    297
  20. Lucalibur

    Lucalibur

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Messages:
    2,098
    first of all, you want to decide tauros or rhydon, golem only got explosion and 5 base speed over rhydon higher atack and bulkness, second of all you want rhydon, has your team lack a eletric and normal resistence, and while the ice weakness might be bad, your team really need rhydon.
  21. waterwizard

    waterwizard

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    138
    Golem walls no one but Zapdos. Everyone kills him in 2 hits. The only wall is Chansey (and reflect is quite amazing).

    Blizzard is not used on Chansey as she is a staller, and Blizzard only has 8 pp.

    Golem is NOT a physical sweeper. Rhydon maybe.... but Tauros is the best.
  22. waterwizard

    waterwizard

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    138
    (of course, you have a few situational walls, too. e.g. Gengar walls Persian, etc)
  23. green_flash

    green_flash

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    Messages:
    176
    excuse me? neither rhydon or golem are going to wall ANY normal in rby (bar dodrio, which is almost never used in standard). also golem vs rhydon is a pretty useless argument; altough i'd go golem 9 times out of 10 because of explosion (but i barely do, as i almost always run snorlax over them), their function is almost identical.

    tauros beats stuffs. golem does not. rby is ultimately offensive: so run tauros. it gives you a better match up against your opponent in every single case, no way you should build an rby team without it.

    edit:waterwizad anticipated me :P
  24. Borat

    Borat

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    766
    Idk, it seems like it's Tauros unanimously by anyone who's played RBY, this question has been answered numerous times. The one guy who's disagreeing classifies Zapdos as a physical wall. I think this was a pretty rhetorical question anyway. What's more interesting seems to be Exeggutor's status.

    Chansey/Tauros are the staple 2 of any RBY team, that's a given. Then you have Exeggutor/Starmie/Gengar, which are all pretty similar in terms of necessity. I wouldn't necessarily put Exeggutor a tier above the other two, nor would I even consider him an absolute must-have as with Chansey/Tauros. I just. Don't. See. It. Gengar is a slight reach in that category though.
  25. Slingshot279

    Slingshot279

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    24
    golem, they have basically the same moves and everything tauros can do, golem can do stronger. basically, they are the same pokemon but have their own advantages

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)