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Team 1.2k (BW OU)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by FaceFaceFace, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. FaceFaceFace

    FaceFaceFace

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    177
    One Point Two. mmKay?​

    The team draws its namesake from that fact that I cannot seem to get past 1200 in PO - closest thus far being 1196. It hovers consistently 1050 and 1200, however. Being new is part of it perhaps - as I have only been playing for 2~3 months now. It is not the most original of teams, but it is the best one I have crafted thus far and it plays rather consistently.

    Hopefully by sharing my team and its woes the Smogon community could help get this team past the 1200 mark!

    EDIT: After some minor changes, this team now hovers consistently between 1200 and 1300. Let's see if we can get it past 1300!

    Here goes:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Main Strengths:
    - Double regenerator Bromoongus core makes it very forgiving - good for beginners.
    - Offers safe switch-ins to a lot of things (bar fugly expert-belt-mind-reading-Nidoking)
    - Double dragon threat - good chance of winning once all steels are gone.

    Cons:
    - Both dragons run rather slowly - scarfMence runs adamant instead of jolly.
    - Offensive capabilities rely heavily on both dragons.
    - No rock resistance.

    ------------------------------

    [​IMG]
    Slowbro @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Psychic
    - Slack Off
    - Flamethrower

    Part one of the Bromoonguss duo. I actually first came across Bromonguss through Expert Physics post on the OU Cores thread and fell in love ever since. So this set is stolen off Expert Physics, although it is rather standard-ish. I used to run Toxic instead of flamethrower, but some fiery goodness can be very useful at times.
    Otherwise, this is your typical standard, physical wall which allows the Bro to switch into anything Amoonguss hates. Proceed to abuse any super effective move, or scald and hope for a burn, and out-stall with slack off. If Slowbro is low and hp, and I'm feeling lucky, I may predict a super effective move on 'Bro and switch back to Moonguss for minimal damage (and vice versa) to net free regenerator healing. More often than not the opponent would predict a Slowbro switch in, which would mean a safe switch-in for Dragonite/Heatran. Don't push your luck, though.

    ------------------------------

    [​IMG]
    Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Spore
    - Giga Drain
    - Stun Spore
    - Clear Smog

    The moonguss in Bromoonguss. Resists most things Slowbro hates (except for bug), proud owner of regenerator and OMG SP0REZ. Too bad it can't set-up sweep like Breloom, otherwise it would simply be diabolical. I replaced Expert Physics' Hidden Power Ice with Toxic to better deal with walls, otherwise, it is more or less the same. Clear smog is very situational, but absolutely sh*t hot when you need it.
    Unless I'm up against Ninetales, I like to lead with Amoonguss, Spore whatever, and go from there. Because of Bromoonguss' lacking offensive capabilities as a whole, I usually have to switch in to something like Heatran or Dragonite to lay the heavy duty smackdown, which has risks of its own - but it USUALLY pays off.

    ------------------------------

    [​IMG]
    Heatran@ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef/ 4 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic
    - Roar

    Standard SDef Heatran. Takes Hurricane like a boss, thus partially solving this team's weakness to things like Tornadus-T and Dragonite. Since swapping to a defensive Heatran set this team has fared very well against most rain teams - lead with Amoonguss, Spore, Stun Spore on the switch (usually a Hurricane user), and switch in Heatran, then SR when they switch out.

    Roar is for hazing purposes like CM Latias, DD dragons etc, and toxic hits everything non-steel/poison.

    ------------------------------
    [​IMG]
    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 SAtk / 220 SDef
    Calm Nature (-Atk, +SDef)
    - Volt Switch
    - Spikes
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Rapid Spin

    Specially defensive Forretress with an offensive twist. Rapid spin is there to get rid of opposing SR for Dragonite, Salamence, and Heatran. While them babies can man-up and get over it, Dragonite's multiscale is wasted, which can sometimes be game-breaking.

    HP Ice 2HKOs Dragonite, Salamence, and 3HKO others. Volt Switch makes running away from Magnezone possible. On top of that, Forretress' speed means that it will usually attack last, allowing me to switch in an offensive counter (Dragonite/Salamence) without the worry of getting hit, thus keeping the momentum on my side.

    I rarely get the chance of set up spikes; but it is there when you need it.

    ------------------------------
    [​IMG]
    Dragonite (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Superpower
    - Fire Punch
    - ExtremeSpeed

    If Dragonite starts an Outrage with full HP, something WILL die. While I used to abuse poor Draggy in a more gung-ho fashion, I now try to keep him in play for as long as possible, switching in and out if necessary. All this is made easier with Bromoonguss' twin regenerator. One can be sure that Dragonite will be dealt with ruthlessly once it is spotted, which further helps in switching it out - you always know something icy/rocky is coming.

    I usually Fire Punch/Superpower(in rain) away if there are steels in play, unless its a do or die situation. Extreme Speed is great for revenge killing purposes, as well as solving Dragonite's somewhat lackluster speed.

    ------------------------------
    [​IMG]
    Salamence @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Fire Blast
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw

    My wild card. I went from Starmie, to Thundurs-T, but decided I needed a physical attacker, and ended up with this guy. He solves my need for a scarfer and a great revenge killer, and even gets a mini sweep with moxie'd Outrage once in a while. However, his sweeping ability is somewhat hindered by Outrage's confusion side effect and Choice Scarf.

    Mencie has less wall punching capabilities than Terrakion, but provides a double dragon threat alongside Dragonite. I've considered Haxorus, but picked Mence because of the better option against steels in fire blast, as well as the badass moxie.

    EVs are easy; nature is not. Naughty has its perks, but would lose out to Jolly scarfed Kyurems, Landorus-T and potentially other scarf-mences. Is it a price worth paying? I'm still unsure.


    Threats:
    Tornadus-T: I've noticed that Hurricane in rain absolutely demolishes my team. Nothing can switch in safely save Heatran and Forretress, but both can't do much against it. Plus, Tornadus-T usually gets switched back out anyway. I have yet to find an answer.

    Sash Alakazam is problematic, but can be overcome.
    Cloyster owns this team, and most setup sweepers become hard to deal with once Heatran gets taken out of the picture.

    Conclusion:
    This is my team thus far; it is by no means 'complete'. Like I said before, I feel that the biggest weakness of this team is the ability to 'finish'. Any feedback will be highly appreciated. I am completely open to suggestions. Thank you for reading!

    Show Hide
    Slowbro (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Psychic
    - Slack Off
    - Flamethrower

    Amoonguss (F) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 SDef / 20 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Spore
    - Giga Drain
    - Stun Spore
    - Clear Smog

    (Heatran) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Roar
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic

    Salamence (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Fire Blast
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw

    (Dragonite) (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Superpower
    - Fire Punch
    - ExtremeSpeed

    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 32 SAtk / 220 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Spikes
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Rapid Spin
  2. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    513
    Hi there!

    This is a neat team, utilizing a pretty solid defensive core, setting up hazards easily which can be vital to help Salamence or Dragonite sweep. One thing I do see that is threatening to this team is genie forms, they can cause a lot of trouble for your defensive core, which might make it hard for you to set up hazards. To help with this, I recommend you try out a Specially Defensive Heatran over your current Choice Specs set. I think Specially Defensive Heatran is a much better fit over your current set, it can still take a hit or two from the bulky waters you mentioned such as Vaporeon and Jellicent and Toxic them in return. This status support will help you a lot as many bulky waters cause problems for Salamence and Dragonite. Specially Defensive Heatran also gives you an offensive stealth rocker, as well as opening up another moveslot on your Forretress, but I'll get to that in a minute. Most importantly, Specially Defensive Heatran gives you a lot more longevity than your previous set, as well as a great answer to Sun and a check to Tornadus-T, arguably the biggest threat to your team.

    To be honest, this team has a pretty solid defensive core. It can wall a large portion of the metagame if you play it correctly. To help with your defensive core, I do think you could change your Forretress set a little. A set of 252 HP / 220 SDef / 36 SAtk with a Calm Nature and a moveset of Spikes, Rapid Spin, Volt Switch and Hidden Power [Ice] would work a lot better in my opinion. This Forretress set gives you the hazards you need, as well as retaining the special bulk as previously. If you choose to go with the Specially Defensive Heatran, you will not need to run Stealth Rock on Forretress, this means you have another option on Forretress. Volt Switch is the preferred option, allowing you to escape from trappers such as Magnezone and Magneton, both who remove your Forretress easily, it's also great for gaining momentum which in turn allows you to bring in Salamence and Dragonite safely. I've also decided to choose Hidden Power [Ice] over Gyro Ball. On a team built around the sweeping of two dragons, it's only natural that one of your biggest problems are opposing dragons, combined with the SAtk investment you can 2HKO opposing Salamence and Dragonite, as well as Gliscor who can cause problems for a team with primarily two physical sweepers.

    As this team is built around the sweeping of Salamence / Dragonite, you need to support them well. For two dragons who are relatively in comparison with other Dragons, I feel that paralysis support could be important for your team. Running Stun Spore > Toxic on Amoonguss would be the easiest way to include this support. Generally the things that commonly switch in on Amoonguss, such as Latios and Tornadus do not mind Toxic, they are more of a hit and run Pokemon and will not be staying in long for the Toxic damage to be racking up. Running Stun Spore allows you to hit these aforementioned threats on the switch, crippling them for the rest of the match. This is good as it allows your sweepers to outspeed these faster mons which otherwise hold up your sweep.

    Cool team, hope I helped!

    Heatran (open)
    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spe
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Roar
    - Toxic
    - Stealth Rock
  3. Jirachee

    Jirachee Kaleidoscope
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,732
    Hi

    Choice Band Terrakion can be a real problem here since you have no Rock resist at all. It can come in and spam Stone Edge without really thinking, and if Slowbro has taken a bit of damage before, it will 2HKO your entire team. With hazards it doesn't even need Slowbro to have taken damage before (eh) so it could become quite problematic over time. While its main spam move is usually Close Combat, Stone Edge isn't really that much less powerful and it could really end up screwing your team up. Random stuff like Choice Band Tyranitar could also benefit of this and massacre your team. You also say yourself that Tornadus-T is a big issue in rain, and since it's pretty much everywhere in OU at the moment, added to the fact you don't run your own weather, you could end up losing quite a lot of matches. I think Specially Defensive Jirachi would go very well on your team in the place of Heatran, since Sun teams can be dealt with by Dragonite and Salamence very well, and it resists Stone Edge. While it can't exactly take Close Combat, just switch Slowbro in first, with Regenerator keeping it healthy you can just go to Jirachi if it uses Stone Edge. With Drizzle active, Jirachi is probably the best counter to Tornadus-T available, since it resists Hurricane, doesn't take much from Focus Blast / Superpower and rain reduces the power of the possible Heat Wave. It also has a lot of resists that Heatran had, so you don't lose a lot there.

    I also believe that Spikes are probably more worth it for your kind of team than Toxic Spikes, because you have stuff like Salamence and Dragonite who don't exactly mess around and hit insanely hard with Outrage, so the initial extra damage from Spikes is probably better. Plus, since you have Amoonguss with Spore, Toxic Spikes could poison something you really want to put to sleep, giving you basically a free kill, instead of something that can't really threaten you. I think it's really trading something that could potentially hurt you for something that help you.

    Finally I think Dragonite would really benefit of trading Waterfall for Superpower, as the latter hit every Steel type for at least neutral damage and it lets you hit stuff like Heatran while Drought is active for super effective damage, while Waterfall has its power halved by Sun. Superpower also has higher base power and it hits more stuff in general, as well as having getter coverage with Dragon STAB. It's now legal with Multiscale with BW2 tutors.

    Here's the set you should use:
    Jirachi (open)

    [​IMG] @ Leftovers
    Serene Grace
    Careful
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
    -Iron Head
    -Body Slam
    -Wish
    -Protect


    Good luck!
  4. FaceFaceFace

    FaceFaceFace

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    177
    Hi Jimbon. Thank you for the feedback.
    I tried running your suggestion, and it netted me a win against a Tornadus-T rain team rather comfortably. Oh the joy when Tornadus was all alone and could do nothing but to eat my outrage. Muahahaha.

    Stun Spore on Amoonguss is awesome.

    Specially defensive Heatran checks more things now, and has a lot more room to lay down SR; but I still feel his contribution to be lacking. Not having access to recovery kinda sucks. I wonder if running protect over roar is a good idea?

    Dragon wise, Forry can barely take a Draco Meteor from Latios, and can only 3HKO Dragonite at full health. So that's something I have to look out for.

    Ah a self advocator. Nice.

    You are right about the stone problem, though.
    To be honest, I find sun teams to be more and more tricky to deal with thanks to the omni-present Venusaur. It's hard because I almost have to sacrifice a pokemon to find out what set it's running - put in a pokemon to get sleep powdered, or risk being setup fodder? Heatran is my only check against V-dawg once it sets up since it outspeeds Salamence.

    While Jirachi may solve my rock problems (which I haven't found to be much of a hassle yet), it means I will get absolutely destroyed by Venusaur under the sun. Thoughts?
  5. Jirachee

    Jirachee Kaleidoscope
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,732
    Maybe it was just poorly worded, but Jirachi doesn't only help you against Terrakion. It also provides you the best Tornadus-T switch in there is, because it's not threatened by Superpower or Focus Blast, while Heatran is. Venusaur might be tricky to deal with, but generally those with Sleep Powder lack Sludge Bomb, which means both Salamence and Dragonite can take it on easily. If it has Hidden Power Ice, then you can beat it with Jirachi. I don't think Venusaur becomes that much of a problem by removing Heatran to be fair. I hope this helps you.
  6. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    513
    You could test Protect over Roar to see if it works, however from personal experience I do think Roar is a much better option. The ability to phase out things such as Volcarona and Latias is really nice, especially since you look massively CM Latias weak without Roar, as your only option is to outspeed with Salamence.
  7. FaceFaceFace

    FaceFaceFace

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    177
    I haven't tested Protect yet, but roar does come in handy a lot.

    And...I just checked my ranking and it has gone up to 1247!
  8. FaceFaceFace

    FaceFaceFace

    Joined:
    May 15, 2012
    Messages:
    177
    Bump. This team now runs consistently between 1200 and 1300.

    Will try running Jirachi instead of Heatran to see how things go.

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