Other Team Analysis Project - Balance

[doughboy]

Team Analysis Project

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Introduction:
Ever wonder what types of teams tournament level players use and what ideas go into building those teams? Well this is the project for you! In the Team Analysis Project, every week I will be presenting you a tournament level team. During our discussion, you guys will try to find out how the team was built and what ideas went into the team. At the end of the discussion, I will give a list of ideas that went into the team and I then will post a new team. Usually, these ideas will tie into the five components of the team listed below. In the beginning, the ideas and the strategy behind the team will be easy to identify. As time goes on, I will be giving more well intricate teams with deeper ideas and strategies. They also will be harder to play with. It is heavily encouraged that you try out the team on the ladder, sometimes you will find ideas that you would have been unable to find with just theorymon!

Five Components of a Team:
Essentially, every good team follows these five components:

• Win Condition: The ultimate path for victory for a team, this is the component on the team that will win you the game. This can range from a set-up sweeper to accumulating residual damage (note these are not the only two ways).
• Strategy: The way a team attempts to goes about to accomplish its win condition. For example, a HO team may use a sweeper as its win condition, but is a hazard-stacking or dual-screens strategy the most optimal way / strategy to accompany the sweeper?
• Couterplay: The elements of a team that attempt to prevent opposing strategies from being executed. In addition, couterplay is the elements of the team that account for the team's strategy failing and attempting to find a way to win. How does this team attempt to counteract / play against common strategies?
• Synergy: How the Pokemon on the team interact with each other that aids in taking down or taking on eachother's checks and counters in addition to bolstering your win condition.
• Intricacies: The best way I can explain is that is it the little cogs in the wheel that net small advantages for the team, and ultimately get it to work.
• Weaknesses: The short comings of the team and the elements of the team that exacerbate the problem of "team matchup." What sacrifices during teambuilding did this team make so it could get the majority of wins? For example, Sludge Wave vs Knock Off on Landorus-I. Sludge Wave might be against the majority of teams, but Knock Off allows you to challenge stall by weakening Chansey.

These are the components that you should try to find during the analysis of the team and that will be the main points for our discussions. How does each Pokemon contribute to one, some, or all of these components? Only by playing with the team will you truly find out!

Guidelines:

• It is encouraged that you play with the team on the ladder in order get a deeper understanding of the ideas behind it and to get a better understanding on how it plays.
• This is not an RMT. We are not trying to find ways to make the team better. What we are trying to do is learn how a higher-level team was made and the ideas behind it.
• Keep discussion relevant to tournament level OU threats (ex. no Donphan). If you do not know what this is, these are Pokemon from S to B in the OU Viability Rankings.
• If you are a tournament level player and would like your team featured in this project, drop me or the others (listed below) a PM. Your help will be appreciated!

Rules:

• Keep discussion civil.
• Don't ask for your team to be featured in the thread, please do it through PM.

This Week's Team!
This is CrashinBoomBang 's team he used in Week 9 of SPL. It seems to be much more unorthodox than the previous teams posted. How does it work? Try it and found out!

Venusaur (M) @ Venusaurite
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 240 HP / 28 Def / 216 SAtk / 24 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis

Greninja (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Protean
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 236 SDef / 16 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Roost
- Defog
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock

Dragonite (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Atk / 132 SDef / 20 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Roost

Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 248 Atk / 24 SAtk / 236 Spd
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Iron Head
- Ice Beam

Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

importable:

Hide

Venusaur (M) @ Venusaurite
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 240 HP / 28 Def / 216 SAtk / 24 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis

Greninja (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Protean
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 236 SDef / 16 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Roost
- Defog
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock

Dragonite (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Atk / 132 SDef / 20 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Roost

Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 248 Atk / 24 SAtk / 236 Spd
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Iron Head
- Ice Beam

Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

 

[doughboy]

Team Archive

Team 1 - Mega Gyarados HO - by Doughboy:

importable

Deoxys-D @ Red Card
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 228 HP / 28 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Superpower
- Taunt

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Gyarados (M) @ Gyaradosite
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Wild Charge
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Garchomp (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Stone Edge

Aegislash (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Stance Change
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SAtk / 16 Spd
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak

Reasoning

• Win Condition:
  • Mega Gyarados grabbing a Dragon Dance is the ultimate win condition. If Mega-Gyarados is unable to get the win, Scarf Garchomp can still clean up with high speed.

• Strategy:
  • A combination of hazard stacking and lures aims to get Mega-Gyarados to sweep and help other Pokemon on the team break down the opponent.
  • Lures:
    • Deoxys-D: 28 Atk EV's OHKO's Bisharp to allow Aegislash to spam Shadow Ball vs offense. Latios benefits as well.
    • Thundurus-I: 2HKO's Mega-Venusaur after SR, OHKO's Chesnaught, and severely damages Ferrothorn with Superpower.
    • Latios: Hidden Power Fire for Ferrothorn, Thunderbolt for Azumarill (helps Garchomp+Gyarados). Takes down Mandibuzz and Bisharp for Aegislash.

• Couterplay:
  • Hazard removal (defensive teams): Thundurus-I with Defiant dissuades Defog users. Aegislash with Air Balloon stops Excadrill and other spinners.
  • Sweepers (offensive teams): Garchomp with Choice Scarf is able to revenge kill a huge amount of sweepers in the metagame. NP+Thunder Wave Thundurus, DD Dragonite, DD Charizard X, DD Mega-Tyranitar, opposing Garchomp, etc. Aegislash can pick off stuff with powerful priority.

• Synergy:
  • Defensively there is not much synergy. The synergy comes from being able to set up on each other's revenge killers. For example, Gyarados sets up on Mamoswine that revenges three teammates. It also sets up on bulky ground-types that stop Thundurus-I and Aegislash.

• Intricacies:
  • Gyarados sets up on Bisharp that Pursuit Aegislash and opposing Aegislash's that Pursuit Latios.
  • Superpower lures in Bisharp for Aegislash to function

Team 2 - Bird Offense - by Doughboy

importable

Mamoswine (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Healing Wish
- Defog

Pinsir (F) @ Pinsirite
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Frustration
- Earthquake
- Feint

Rotom (Rotom-W) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Conkeldurr (F) @ Assault Vest
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 Def / 248 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Mach Punch

Talonflame (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Tailwind

Reasoning

• Win Condition:
  • SD Mega Pinsir and CB Talonflame. Both of them aim to take down the opponent with their hard hitting Flying-type STAB
• Strategy:
  • As opposed to using lures, this team uses a raw power to overwhelm a check or counter get a late game sweep with the win condition (Mega-Pinsir or Talonflame). Mamoswine, Pinsir, and Talonflame all target Rotom-W, who was the primary check by bulky offense teams to Flying-types in the not so distant past. Mamoswine+Pinsir+Conkeldurr target Skarmory.
  • Consideration was taken into account for Pokemon that could immediately remove offensive Electric-types. Mamoswine removes defensive Zapdos and Thundurus quite easily. Electric-types that rely upon Electric + Ice are checked very well by Mamoswine since it resists both. Mamoswine can also take down Tyranitar and bulky Ground-types. Conkeldurr can take advantage of Rotom-W's Wil-o-Wisp with Guts. It freely switches in on most offensive Electrics with its bulk. It can also take down Tyranitar and other Steel-types
  • Rotom-W's Volt Switch, U-turn on Talonflame, and Healing Wish on Latias all allow for the frailer offensive Pokemon on the team to get on the field more easily.
• Couterplay:
  • The team aims to counteract offensive teams with loads of powerful priority. CB Talonflame's Brave Bird, Mamoswine's Ice Shard, and Conkeldurr's Mach Punch already cover most threats. Sweepers normally threatening to bird teams like Thundurus-I and DD TTar are checked through this. Mamoswine's Ice Shard is important to deal with Dragon's without a dedicated bulky Steel or Fairy-type.
  • This team can struggle with stall, but can attempt to brute force their way through it especially with Mega-Pinsir.
  • Defog from Latias deals with hazards. Healing Wish is used to allow Mega-Pinsir and Talonflame to get on the field even if they are below 50% with SR down. Also prevents being checkmated by Pursuit users being a "useless" turn.
• Synergy:
  • The four offensive members of the team (Conkeldurr, Mamoswine, Talonflame, and Mega-Pinsir) can pressure eachother's counters very well. For example, opposing Rotom-W can not Wil-o-Wisp Mega-Pinsir or Mamoswine freely without risking giving Conkeldurr a Guts boost. Mega-Pinsir and Talonflame can immediately remove Mega-Venusaur for Conkeldurr. Conkeldurr can Knock Off Leftovers from Skarmory to make it recover more often.
  • Rotom-W and Latias aim to get the offensive threats on field as safely as possible. Defog+Healing Wish on Latias exemplifies this.
• Intricacies:
  • Defiant users will not be able to get a countersweep when Latias is pressured to use Defog because the team packs specific super-effective priority against them: Conkeldurr's Mach Punch for +2 Bisharp and Mamoswine's Ice Shard for +2 Thundurus-I.
  • Feint to more easily beat opposing bird teams since it outprioritizes Talonflame + opposing Mega-Pinsir.

Team 3 - Some Balance Team - By CrashinBoomBang

Hide

Venusaur (M) @ Venusaurite
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 240 HP / 28 Def / 216 SAtk / 24 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis

Greninja (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Protean
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 236 SDef / 16 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Roost
- Defog
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock

Dragonite (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Atk / 132 SDef / 20 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Roost

Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 248 Atk / 24 SAtk / 236 Spd
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Iron Head
- Ice Beam

Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

 

[calamebe]

I can see Deoxys-D and Thunderus together, which is there to punish defoggers by giving Thunderus a free +2 boost. Thunderus also has psychic for mega Venusaur. I don't really know why Deoxys-D has superpower, I would've though seismic toss would've been better, probably to OHKO a threat. It looks like a hyperoffensive team, with no dedicated walls. Aegislash and Deoxys-D are bulky, but the EV's and nature don't suggest they are walls. That's all I can really see, I'm not good at team building at all.

 

[jbtc10]

Superpower is there to 1HKO any Bisharp that tries to counter-lead your Deo-D, allowing you to remove him from the game and then most likely proceed to set up 2 layers of hazards afterwards, as opposed to only getting 1 layer up, then still having a Bisharp you need to kill.

 

[Ash Borer]

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Gyarados (M) @ Gyaradosite
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Wild Charge
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Psychic

this is cute. You have a pretty good ferrothorn and scizor lure here. HP Fire on Latios is incredibly rare, while a PHYSICAL thundurus is sure to draw in Venusaur, and of course Psychic bops it. Though, I would prefer HP flying in case something like Tangrowth or CHESNAUGHT shows up on the off chance. Physical defiant thundy with hp flying, what a chesnaught lure! Then, an incredibly dangerous sweeper that adores the removal of these defensive threats. Add in the fact that 4 attack latios is very uncommon and you also have a modestly potent azumarill lure, something Gyara also likes gone. What do you get? A scary mega gyarados team armed with the element of surprise.

You could call this the "mega gyara core". Aegis is there to spin block and for its utility check ability, while Garchomp is the final choice as a gluemon patching up a weakness to Mega Zard X, opposing Gyarados (kinda) and more. Deo is the hazard lead cuz its broken lol.

• Win Condition: Mega Gyara, if that fails clean house with chomper outrage perhaps.
  
• Strategy: LURES, this team has a couple. They can work. Also hazard stacking + spinblocking/defiant makes defenses far easier to crack.
  
• Couterplay: Spinblocking/defiant is the most obvious as it stops the counter counter hazards. Oh also Balloon Aegis is obviously a complete counter to Offensive scolipede which is a decently popular counterlead to deo.
  
• Synergy: I only noticed the lures personally.
  
• Intricacies: The true surprise value of physical thundurus with fucking psychic. Thats bretty good. ALso Balloon aegis but thats standard.

 

[Stoo]

this is pretty similar to a mega gyara HO team i threw together not too long ago, so i can see the thought process going on here. mega gyara is your primary win condition most of the time. in order to get that sweep, you have to clear out all of: venusaur, ferrothorn, skarmory, phazing mandibuzz, chesnaught, etc. this being where latios and defiant thundurus come in, since these two can clean up the majority of these threats. the fact that thundurus is running a mixed LO set with psychic demonstrates just how annoying venu is to gyara HO, you need multiple ways to hit it hard. aegislash gives you a nice switch in to plenty of defensive threats which wall gyara, and spin blocking utility, but a more offensive option is LO swords dance scizor, which can set up on ferrothorn.

a scarfer is usually necessary on HO to stop you getting reverse swept, and scarfchomp is the best against mega zard x, other gyara, and plenty of others. i experimented with scarf heatran as a good switch to ferro, talonflame and skarm, but it just doesnt hit hard enough and cant prevent the sweeps. scarf terrakion is another option which also hits chansey, which this team otherwise struggles with.

 

[SansNickel]

• Win Condition: The team seems to have 2 late game options (of course they can still be used earlier), namely Mega Gyarados and Garchomp. Garchomp also doubles as a revenge killer to +1 Char-X. Like most offensive teams go, most of the mons on the team can be potential late game options, which is the beauty of offense (and playing well).
• Strategy: Deo-D is there of course to set hazards for the offensive team to put on pressure + net KOs. Superpower is there for bisharp and deal a good chunk out of tyranitar and dark types in general, who could could pursuit trap and/or are notable threats to both latios and aegislash. Latios has HP fire for ferrothorn and scizor which are common switchins, which allows Gyarados and Garchomp to sweep more easily. Physically based thundurus is there to punish defoggers, and has a type advantage against most of them. Stuff like thundurus, latios, and aegi could theoretically beat revenge killers such as scizor and conkeldurr from ending gyarados' sweep early. Psychic on thundy and latios let it get past stuff like chesnaught as well, which walls this team pretty hard after they're gone.
• Couterplay: Latios as a lure, physically-based mixed thundy, and balloon aegi are all examples of small things that help out the team. Getting rid of scizor/ferro is super important, while thundy and aegi make sure hazards stay up, or at least the opponent pays for it.
• Synergy: Aegislash is the pivot for the team, having acceptable synergy with latios and good synergy with garchomp, mega gyarados and thundy. This team doesn't need too much defensive synergy as all its mons have great coverage and so will not be switching too much. Offensively, latios gets rid of some steels including scizor, ferro, and skarmory. Thundy can't actually beat venusaur with psychic because its uninvested, but knock off lets you cripple anything in general, but specifically lets you beat latios/latias, as well as get rid of chansey.
• Intricacies: Generally, between the lures and abilities and aegi's balloon, the ability to punish essentially any defensive play makes the team work well.

 

[X5Dragon]

​

Five Components of a Team:
Essentially, every good team follows these five components:

• Win Condition: The ultimate path for victory for a team, this is the component on the team that will win you the game. This can range from a set-up sweeper to accumulating residual damage (note these are not the only two ways).
• Strategy: The way a team attempts to goes about to accomplish its win condition. For example, a HO team may use a sweeper as its win condition, but is a hazard-stacking or dual-screens strategy the most optimal way / strategy to accompany the sweeper?
• Couterplay: The elements of a team that attempt to prevent opposing strategies from being executed. In addition, couterplay is the elements of the team that account for the team's strategy failing and attempting to find a way to win.
• Synergy: How the Pokemon on the team interact with each other that aids in taking down or taking on eachother's checks and counters in addition to bolstering your win condition.
• Intricacies: The best way I can explain is that is it the little cogs in the wheel that net small advantages for the team, and ultimately get it to work.

A classic staple of XY and BW! What does this team do?
importable:

Hide

Deoxys-D @ Red Card
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 228 HP / 28 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Superpower
- Taunt

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Gyarados (M) @ Gyaradosite
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Wild Charge
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Psychic

Garchomp (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Stone Edge

Aegislash (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Stance Change
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SAtk / 16 Spd
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak

Deoxys-D @ Red Card
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 228 HP / 28 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Superpower
- Taunt

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Gyarados (M) @ Gyaradosite
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Wild Charge
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Psychic

Garchomp (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Stone Edge

Aegislash (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Stance Change
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SAtk / 16 Spd
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak

An HO team...X5D lure much? Wait, were the **** is Dragonite? Also has 2 dragons, none of them can dance, smh B class team at best. Wait did Masterclass do this? NVM archive it.

Lol anyway this is a standard DeoDefiantSlash core paired with a Mega sweeper, it was usually common to see MLuca taking the spot here and lately MPins but thanks to the King (tm) Gyara has also managed to become an excellent pairing. The idea here is to lay down hazards, keep them on field while punishing the opponent, wear down the enemy team with fast and/or hard hitters so when Gyara sets up he can clean late game easily.

Detailed analysis:

• Win Condition: Aside from the obvious MGyara who will count on his teammates to wear down, lure and eliminate his threats, Scarf Chomp is also a great late game cleaner where he can reliably revenge fast/set up dragons and other speedy mons like Ninja, etc.
  
• Strategy: Set up hazards, keep them on field using Aegislash against spinners (balloon helping against Exca) or give the opponent a hard time between switching out the defogger against Thundrus-I or suffering a +2 Genie if they choose to defog. The Dragons can play the role of play and tear, which ultimately leads to a MGyara setting up and then going on to clean late game.
  
• Couterplay: There is a few things MGyara doesn't like, such as ferrothorn, set up dragons and pokemon like Keldeo. Latios can come in and lure Steels, knock out Keldeo and be a check to CharY when played right. Scarf Chomp is there in case a CharX or any other Dragons goes out of hand and can even be there to wear down things like Talonflame indirectly or take down fast threats like the ubiquitous Greninja and T-wave Thundrus-I.
  
• Synergy: There isn't much defensive synergy to speak of generally, but offensively there are quiet a few. We got the good balance of Physical to Special attackers, with many containing lure move in case an appropriate wall switches in, for example HP Fire, Psyshock and Knock Off. There is also a good balance between fast and furious type of attackers, set up users and bulky mons like Aegislash to suit the many situations you will be facing during the match.
  
• Intricacies: The little cogs that would tie everything together as mentioned in my general description would be the red card, air baloon and defiant for the hazard phaze, the HP Fire, Scarf and Knock off for the wear and tear phase and the scarf and Gyarakdkf whatever it's called for the clean up stage.

 

[doughboy]

Good job guys, you got the majority of the ideas mentioned so far! You guys have a lot of the "how's", meaning how the team is supposed to win and how it is played, but you are missing some of the "why's". What I mean by the "why's" is the reasons I chose to pair poke x over poke z with poke y on this team, and it relates to the idea of synergy. Like what I am seeing so far :)

 

[Ajwf]

Thundy-I > Bisharp for Defiant user is slightly obvious. You're trying to sweep with Gyarados-mega, who is electric weak and walled by skarmory for a while. More importantly, these guys can carry WW to counteract the standard Bisharp taking advantage of them... Defog users commonly consider Bisharp to the point that Latias might even run colbur berry +HP fight to get a defog + Lure kill. Not only that, but Bisharp has to play a prediction game of sucker punch/pursuit/knock off vs Latias/latios. Thundy-I outspeeds, takes Zap/Skarm/Mandi with main stab, can lure in chansey outside of defog and can still rail Lati if it stays in through knock off, requiring no prediction as something will take it (It outspeeds the lati twins).

 

[Duck Chris]

Another strength of this team is early game synergy. With a lot of threats in XY OU, he potential to run multiple sets or moves makes early game scouting very important, and this team is probably the biggest example of that. Without knowing whether the mega is Gyarados or Garchomp, what kind of aegislash, does latios have defog, what kind of thundurus etc, it's pretty hard to figure out what's going on just from team preview.
With that knowledge, this team strives to create early game pressure in order to keep the opponent on the back foot. Deoxys-Defence with red card and taunt is enough to make anyone rethink their game. Trying to do that at the same time as scouting for 4 or 5 different pokemon with equally threatening movesets? That is an extrememly difficult task when this team is in the hands of an expert player, and I think that's a main factor to its success.

 

[doughboy]

Another strength of this team is early game synergy. With a lot of threats in XY OU, he potential to run multiple sets or moves makes early game scouting very important, and this team is probably the biggest example of that. Without knowing whether the mega is Gyarados or Garchomp, what kind of aegislash, does latios have defog, what kind of thundurus etc, it's pretty hard to figure out what's going on just from team preview.
With that knowledge, this team strives to create early game pressure in order to keep the opponent on the back foot. Deoxys-Defence with red card and taunt is enough to make anyone rethink their game. Trying to do that at the same time as scouting for 4 or 5 different pokemon with equally threatening movesets? That is an extrememly difficult task when this team is in the hands of an expert player, and I think that's a main factor to its success.

Sorry to say Chris but this isn't necessarily true. While some of the Pokemon on the team can run mutely ills different sets, from the team preview you can have a very good idea what they are running because who is matches with who. Just using the examples you gave, it should be pretty obvious that the Mega is going to be Gyarados. Mega-Garchomp is only used really used on sand-offensive teams, otherwise it's EQ will not be powerful enough to beat Chansey / Slowbro. In addition, if this team didn't use Mold Breaker Gyarados with EQ, it would struggle much much more with Rotom-W. Just because of the presence of Deoxys-D alone, you have a idea of the sets of Thundurus-I and Latios are using. Defiant users are pretty much necessary on HO, and so it would be very strange if Thundurus wasn't running it. Also Latios has a very strong chance of not running Defog. Defog users on hazard stacking HO cripple the team's central strategy of keeping its hazards down to pressure the opponent. That said, the guessing game for what sets certain Pokemon are running isn't strong as you make it out to be.

 

[Duck Chris]

Hmm okay I see what you mean, although the point about scouting early game under pressure still stands with Latios and Aegislash (pursuit? no pursuit?)

 

[Baharoth]

Excuse me if questions dont belong here (Just delete it in that case) but looking at that team it makes me curious how you deal with fast ice attack users especialy Greninja. Darkpulse + coverage move nails basicly everything on the team except Gyara and even he takes ~50% from Darkpulse while he is unevolved. I usually play balanced teams but i played around a little with HO during suspect ladder and I had a similar problem with my HO team just with Thundurus instead of Greninja. I had no safe switch for it and basicly lost a mon everytime it came in. I thought that my team was simply flawed because of the lack of defensive synergy but seeing this team I wonder if I just played it wrong?

 

[Ash Borer]

Excuse me if questions dont belong here (Just delete it in that case) but looking at that team it makes me curious how you deal with fast ice attack users especialy Greninja. Darkpulse + coverage move nails basicly everything on the team except Gyara and even he takes ~50% from Darkpulse while he is unevolved. I usually play balanced teams but i played around a little with HO during suspect ladder and I had a similar problem with my HO team just with Thundurus instead of Greninja. I had no safe switch for it and basicly lost a mon everytime it came in. I thought that my team was simply flawed because of the lack of defensive synergy but seeing this team I wonder if I just played it wrong?

no, not really, countless offensive teams are weak to Greninja. Though this thread isnt for changing the team I would say Gyarados and Garchomp can be offered as sufficient checks such that Gren doesnt bowl the team over

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Getting Gyarados set up turns by laying hazards and preventing them from being removed. This should be fun.

Also,

Team Archive

you can post

if someone could make a logo for the project that would be appreciated like this

Would we abbreviate it to TAP or TA Project or write it out fully?

 

[doughboy]

Sorry for leaving this hanging but I had been really busy. You guys pretty much got everything (red is what you missed). Here are the ideas I had in mind:

Hide

• Win Condition:
  • Mega Gyarados grabbing a Dragon Dance is the ultimate win condition. If Mega-Gyarados is unable to get the win, Scarf Garchomp can still clean up with high speed.
• Strategy:
  • A combination of hazard stacking and lures aims to get Mega-Gyarados to sweep and help other Pokemon on the team break down the opponent.
  • Lures:
    • Deoxys-D: 28 Atk EV's OHKO's Bisharp to allow Aegislash to spam Shadow Ball vs offense. Latios benefits as well.
    • Thundurus-I: 2HKO's Mega-Venusaur after SR, OHKO's Chesnaught, and severely damages Ferrothorn with Superpower.
    • Latios: Hidden Power Fire for Ferrothorn, Thunderbolt for Azumarill (helps Garchomp+Gyarados). Takes down Mandibuzz and Bisharp for Aegislash.
• Couterplay:
  • Hazard removal (defensive teams): Thundurus-I with Defiant dissuades Defog users. Aegislash with Air Balloon stops Excadrill and other spinners.
  • Sweepers (offensive teams): Garchomp with Choice Scarf is able to revenge kill a huge amount of sweepers in the metagame. NP+Thunder Wave Thundurus, DD Dragonite, DD Charizard X, DD Mega-Tyranitar, opposing Garchomp, etc. Aegislash can pick off stuff with powerful priority.
• Synergy:
  • Defensively there is not much synergy. The synergy comes from being able to set up on each other's revenge killers. For example, Gyarados sets up on Mamoswine that revenges three teammates. It also sets up on bulky ground-types that stop Thundurus-I and Aegislash.
• Intricacies:
  • Gyarados sets up on Bisharp that Pursuit Aegislash and opposing Aegislash's that Pursuit Latios.
  • Superpower lures in Bisharp for Aegislash to function

So team 2 is up! Try it out and set what you find. More will definitely be coming soon.

 

[Stoo]

nice archetypal bird spam, not seen as often as it was a month or two ago but rips through all kinds of teams. designed so that the team has switch ins for bird checks like lando-t, heatran, zapdos (mamoswine), rotom (conk), and skarm (rotom).
SR on mamoswine ensures that stuff like lando and heatran, who would usually carry rocks, are immediately pressured into not getting them up while you can get your own up. a well timed u-turn on talon ensures that this is the case. rotom also threatens these out, and again, a well timed volt switch can create the deadly volt turn loop which allows you to control the early game momentum.
latias + conk have nice synergy as conk is hugely threatening to most pursuit trappers such as tyranitar or bisharp, while mamoswine also threatens aegi. obviously latias' most important job is SR removal, and healing wish provides a nice emergency escape vs pursuit trappers coming in on the defog, plus it can bring talon and pinsir, both relatively frail, back from the brink to get the clutch sweep.

 

[NotBruceWayne]

Flyspam has diminished in use recently (maybe I haven't seen a lot of it), but it's still a pretty solid archetype to build around. The goal of the team is obviously to sweep with either Talonflame or Mega Pinsir. Running Feint on Mega Pinsir is a pretty cool touch. On the plus side, as it allows Mega Pinsir to get the jump on opposing Talonflame and other priority users. On the minus side however, it's pretty niche compared to Quick Attack which allows Pinsir to KO stuff like Keldeo and Greninja who can threaten the robotic stag beetle.

 

[Aedan J]

I think a smart player using a Charizard Y team can deal with bird easily.
Pinsir and TalonFlame hate Paralysis, and while Latias has healing wish, she can only do this once, and Latias is most likely needed to keep Stealth Rocks off your side. Conkeldurr generally loses to air slash zard Keldeo and Latios that many ZardY teams carry.

 

[Ladder Heroes]

My analysis of this team:

• Win Condition: A late game Talonflame sweep.
• Strategy: Simple enough. The team keeps its flying spammers healthy and weakens all the counters to flying spam. Pinsir in particular weakens things that wall Talonflame to the point that it can sweep late game.
• Counterplay:

-Opposing Brave Bird spam: Rotom-Wash counters opposing Talonflames who would pose a threat to this team.
-Opposing stops to Flying Spam: Mamowine, Conkeldurr and Rotom-Wash are the keys to stopping a lot of these pokemon. Bulky Pivot Landorus-T, Heatran and Thundurus,three of the main stops to Talonflame, can't deal with Mamoswine. Conkeldurr does work by stopping Rotom-Wash and Rotom-Heat, as well as checking Bisharp, who is a problem for this team in general. Skarmory is dealt with by Rotom-Wash.
-Stealth Rock and Status: Latias is a great defogger and breathes new life onto the team's sweepers with Healing Wish.

• Synergy: The defensive synergy on this team is pretty good, with Mamoswine, Rotom, and Conk, and Latios being able to tank most of the hits Talonflame and Pinsir can not. The four Pokemon supporting Pinsir and Talonflame collectively resist or are immune to the tupes that trouble the Bird and the Beatle. The offensive synergy is very good. The team is built around Pinsir and Talonflame, and has some solid bulky pivots in Rotom and Conk backing them up and allowing them to function to their potential. Not too much more synergy is needed when you end up spamming Flying moves that 2HKO even bulky resists after SR.
• Intricacies: A great lure on this team is feint, which is a nasty surprise those Talonflames flying around. Additionally, Rotom-Wash can weaken most checks to Flying Spam with status and Volt Switch out and safely bring in a sweeper to clean up. Healing Wish heals the teams 4x SR weak mons before hazard damage and allows Latios to "escape" Bisharp late game while doing something useful: allowing the teams sweepers a second chance to do damage and helps the team in general regain momentum with a "pseudo VoltTurn" of sorts.

Edit: fixed some spelling stuff and added some extra ideas

 

[Duck Chris]

Defensive Synergy: Mamoswine is one of the better choices to take on Electric attacks as he doesn't fear coverage moves such as Heat Wave, Flamethrower, or Hidden Power Ice from the likes of Zapdos, MManectric, and Thundurus (ish). The only common electric type that still bothers Mamo is Rotom-W, which is handily dealt with by the likes of Conkeldurr or Latias. These two specially defensive mons also serve as decent checks to Charizard Y, which can do a lot of work on this team. Healing wish is also a great choice to get your birds in and live a couple more hits worth of recoil.
In terms of offensive cores you have U-turn on Talonflame and Volt Switch on Rotom to keep momentum, which is definitely something the rest of the team lacks in places. Tailwind on Talonflame is also a good choice to support Pinsir late game, as Feint isn't that great of an option on its own, and it helps if Pinsir has a bit more speed to work with. Mamoswine is also a great choice for a Stealth Rocker as he beats most of the popular defogers with Icicle Crash, and can threaten the Excadrill switch in with Earthquake. Someone mentioned Bulky Pivots which is definitely a valid point, especially allowing the team to beat things like Mega Aerodactyl which, while rare, can do some work on bird teams.

 

[Arca10]

My analysis of this team:

• Win Condition: A late game Talonflame sweep.
• Strategy: Simple enough. The team keeps its flying spammers healthy and weakens all the counters to flying spam. Pinsir in particular weakens things that wall Talonflame to the point that it can sweep late game.
• Counterplay:

-Opposing Brave Bird spam: Rotom-Wash counters opposing Talonflames who would pose a threat to this team.
-Opposing stops to Flying Spam: Mamowine, Conkeldurr and Rotom-Wash are the keys to stopping a lot of these pokemon. Bulky Pivot Landorus-T, Heatran and Thundurus,three of the main stops to Talonflame, can't deal with Mamoswine. Conkeldurr puts Rotoms Wash and Heat to a stop, as well as checking Bisharp, who is a problem in general. Skarmory is dealt with by Rotom-Wash.
-Stealth Rock and Status: Latios is a great defogger and breaths new life onto the teams sweepers with Healing Wish.

• Synergy: The defensive synergy on this team is not that great, but the offensive synergy is stellar. The team is built around Pinsir and Talonflame, and has some solid bulky pivots in Rotom and Conk backing them up and allowing them to function to their potential. Not too much synergy is needed when you end up spamming Flying moves that 2HKO even bulky resists after SR.
• Intricacies: A great lure on this team is feint, which is a nasty surprise for most priority revenge killers who have to deal with Pinsir. Additionally, Rotom can weaken most checks to Flying Spam with status and pivot out into a sweeper to clean up. Healing Wish heals before hazard damage and allows Latios to "escape" Bisharp late game while doing something useful, and allows the team's SR weak sweepers to get a second chance to sweep and full momentum.

I think Hjwang got most of it, so I'll just extend their post with my thoughts.

• I think it's worth noting that both of our bulky pivots also comfortably absorb the Thunderwaves and Will-O-Wisps that will likely be aimed at our win condition(s), and Mamoswine is also immune to the Thunderwaves while Latias won't terribly mind taking a Will-O-Wisp.
• Feint helps alleviate worries about opposing bird spam as long as Stealth Rocks are down or they have some prior damage, and also helps Pinsir break past Gligar and Wish+Protect users.
• Talonflame's Tailwind helps check opposing setup sweepers.

Edit: I can't figure out exactly why Conk has the ev spread that it has. It'll obviously have better special bulk, but I'm not sure what it's going to help it beat. Maybe so it can handle Thundurus-I more easily? Or maybe to lessen healing from opposing drain moves, and increase the % healed from Drain Punch?

 

[moonbase]

can we please revive this, I like this thread

 

[doughboy]

So here is what I took into consideration when making the Flying-spam team

Hide

• Win Condition:
  • SD Mega Pinsir and CB Talonflame. Both of them aim to take down the opponent with their hard hitting Flying-type STAB
• Strategy:
  • As opposed to using lures, this team uses a raw power to overwhelm a check or counter get a late game sweep with the win condition (Mega-Pinsir or Talonflame). Mamoswine, Pinsir, and Talonflame all target Rotom-W, who was the primary check by bulky offense teams to Flying-types in the not so distant past. Mamoswine+Pinsir+Conkeldurr target Skarmory.
  • Consideration was taken into account for Pokemon that could immediately remove offensive Electric-types. Mamoswine removes defensive Zapdos and Thundurus quite easily. Electric-types that rely upon Electric + Ice are checked very well by Mamoswine since it resists both. Mamoswine can also take down Tyranitar and bulky Ground-types. Conkeldurr can take advantage of Rotom-W's Wil-o-Wisp with Guts. It freely switches in on most offensive Electrics with its bulk. It can also take down Tyranitar and other Steel-types
  • Rotom-W's Volt Switch, U-turn on Talonflame, and Healing Wish on Latias all allow for the frailer offensive Pokemon on the team to get on the field more easily.
• Couterplay:
  • The team aims to counteract offensive teams with loads of powerful priority. CB Talonflame's Brave Bird, Mamoswine's Ice Shard, and Conkeldurr's Mach Punch already cover most threats. Sweepers normally threatening to bird teams like Thundurus-I and DD TTar are checked through this. Mamoswine's Ice Shard is important to deal with Dragon's without a dedicated bulky Steel or Fairy-type.
  • This team can struggle with stall, but can attempt to brute force their way through it especially with Mega-Pinsir.
  • Defog from Latias deals with hazards. Healing Wish is used to allow Mega-Pinsir and Talonflame to get on the field even if they are below 50% with SR down. Also prevents being checkmated by Pursuit users being a "useless" turn.
• Synergy:
  • The four offensive members of the team (Conkeldurr, Mamoswine, Talonflame, and Mega-Pinsir) can pressure eachother's counters very well. For example, opposing Rotom-W can not Wil-o-Wisp Mega-Pinsir or Mamoswine freely without risking giving Conkeldurr a Guts boost. Mega-Pinsir and Talonflame can immediately remove Mega-Venusaur for Conkeldurr. Conkeldurr can Knock Off Leftovers from Skarmory to make it recover more often.
  • Rotom-W and Latias aim to get the offensive threats on field as safely as possible. Defog+Healing Wish on Latias exemplifies this.
• Intricacies:
  • Defiant users will not be able to get a countersweep when Latias is pressured to use Defog because the team packs specific super-effective priority against them: Conkeldurr's Mach Punch for +2 Bisharp and Mamoswine's Ice Shard for +2 Thundurus-I.
  • Feint to more easily beat opposing bird teams since it outprioritizes Talonflame + opposing Mega-Pinsir.

A new team has been posted! It is not mine but is CrashinBoomBang's. If you are a more experienced player and would like to share a team for this project just PM me!

Anyway, I am going to add another component to consider for teambuilding: weaknesses. While this sort of strays from the projects original intention, recognizing weaknesses that your team may have, and choosing which ones will ultimately result in having the minimal amount of losses is very important. For example, a moveslot choice of Knock Off vs Sludge Wave on Landorus-I. Sludge Wave nets you an advantage against Fairy-types and offers the strongest (accurate) neutral coverage, but Knock Off will utterly cripple Chansey. Ultimately, Sludge Wave will net you the most benefit, but Knock Off may be a strong choice if your struggles against stall and can make up for Landorus-I's lack of fire power vs Fairy-types.