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Team Carol Channing (seriously idgaf about team names)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Sweep, Jul 9, 2013.

  1. Sweep

    Sweep
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    Hi! I am Sweep from Pokemon Showdown, here to present a team that I have laddered with since Sleep Clause testing. As some of you know, I am obsessed with Generation 1 fossils. I wanted to build a team featuring a Choice Band Kabutops, which cleans up magnificently late game. However, Pokemon like Groudon, Giratina A and O, Arceus-Water, Arceus-Grass, and to a lesser extent Ferrothorn give Kabutops a lot of problems, so I made a core to help deal with these threats. I also got the chance to try out mons like lead Lum Berry Dialga and liked how it performed on the ladder.

    My ladder ranking is good (2162) but that has more to do with the relative weakness of the PS ladder than anything else. Beating up on Chesto-Rest Blaziken and Rain Dance Heatmor gets old and I would like to use this team against better players; but not before it is critiqued to maximize its effectiveness. Arceus-Grass and Palkia are particularly troublesome, though Palkia is itself threatened by all members of my team at the very least.


    [​IMG]

    Dialga @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 204 SAtk / 52 Spd / 252 HP (0 attack IV’s)
    Modest Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunder Wave
    - Dragon Pulse

    My lead. Lum Berry deals with Lead Darkrai, except Scarf Darkrai that use Trick turn 1 anticipating Thunder Wave or SR (though those are rare). It also protects me once from random Will-O-Wisps, Thunder Waves, and Sacred Fire burns. The speed is for massive speed creep over base 90’s, in particular Groudon and Ho-Oh. The significant investment in Special Attack allows it to break Ho-Oh’s substitutes with Dragon Pulse. Stealth Rock is mandatory to turn 3HKO’s into 2HKOs, and 2HKO’s into OHKO’s. In particular, Stealth Rock allows Kabutops to kill speedier variants of EKiller almost every time with Low Kick. Fire Blast is to roast Ferrothorn and Forretress, and because Dialga usually leads, its power is not weakened by rain. Dialga is an excellent lead and reliably sets up Stealth Rock for this team (I usually attack with Dragon Pulse if I see a Magic Bouncer). Here’s how I deal with common leads:

    Support Groudon: Set up SR, the spam Fire Blast until I am dead. If the opponent is running a Groudon set that is 2HKO’s by Fire Blast, I usually predict the switch-out and use either TWave or Dragon Pulse.

    Darkrai: TWave, then set up Stealth Rock. Lum Berry Allows me to aborb sleep once and TWave makes Darkrai virtually useless once it has slept something. Scarf Darkrai, as previously mentioned, are troublesome.

    Sash Deoxys-A: I easily live Superpower, so I use Thunder Wave to cripple it then set up SR.

    Deoxys-S: Annoying. I use Dragon Pulse turn 1 to scout for Magic Coat or Taunt, then use TWave if my opponent is content to set up hazards. I then set up SR of my own. If my opponent predicts well, Deoxys-S can get 3 hazards up, though if it uses Taunt or Magic Coat on the first turn it will only get up 1.

    Support Dialga: I typically win this due to Lum Berry and Thunder Wave unless the opponent runs Aura Sphere.

    Specs Kyurem-W: I lose to Draco Meteor.

    EP Groudon: I lose to EQ.

    Custap Forretress: Not as hard to handle as Deoxys-S. I Fire Blast to bring it down to 1% and let it set up SR. It then will use Spikes or Toxic Spikes after Custap activates, allowing me to set up my own SR and kill it Turn 3. I lose the hazards battle 2-1, but start off with a man advantage. I am usually happy with this scenario.


    [​IMG]

    Kyogre @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252Spd (0 attack IV’s)
    Modest Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder
    - Surf
    - Water Spout

    This is a monster. Specs Water Spout lures and 2HKO’s Chansey and Ferrothorn, ensuring they cannot switch in safely. All Groudon, even Careful Groudon, will fall to Water Spout as well. Max speed EV’s allow me to deal with Earth Plate Groudon a little better, though 252 Jolly is still an issue for my team. In addition to wallbreaking, Kyogre sets rain for Kabutops to clean up late game and revenge most scarfers. Not even Latias or Grassceus can safely switch in on Ice Beam, though sadly both survive the icy assault (even after SR).

    The speed allows me to outrun most Lugia, some Latias, and almost all base 90’s not carrying a Scarf. Modest is vital in killing off Arceus forms with Surf after SR; I would need Hydro Pump to do that with a Timid nature, and I dislike Hydro Pump on Kyogre as this whale needs to stay alive as long as possible for me to win the weather war, and missed are counterproductive to that goal. 0 attack IV’s are almost always useless but Liepard is apparently a thing now on the Ubers ladder so why not.


    [​IMG]


    Genesect @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 8 SAtk / 252 Spd / 248 Atk
    Naive Nature
    - U-turn
    - Ice Beam
    - Iron Head
    - Explosion

    Genesect is an elite scarfer due to its access to U-Turn and strong movepool. It can check Latios and Latias and revenge-kill Mewtwo after a little prior damage. The limited Special Attack investment is for Dragon Dance Rayquaza, which would otherwise make this team very sad. 8 Special Attack EV’s allow me to always OHKO Rayquaza. Iron Head beats Kyurem-W and often haxes Ghostceus to death.

    I greatly prefer Physically based scarf to Specially based, despite Genesect’s great special movepool. Why? I use U-Turn at least 70% of the time, so maximizing the power of its best move is important to me. Explosion hits extremely hard as a suicide move against mons like Ho-Oh and Reshiram, and again Iron Head is not only going to hit CM Arceus hard, but can easily flinch hax them to death (and if not, Kabutops revenges). I have no reason to use Flamethrower in Rain, and Thunder is nice for Skarmory and Omastar but doesn’t really have as much use as you’d think. U-Turn hits Kyogre harder after an Attack boost from Download than Thunder does for example. A Naïve nature allows Genesect to take physical priority better than it would with a Hasty nature. I like this set, though I guess Explosion is situational.


    [​IMG]

    Rayquaza @ Life Orb
    Trait: Air Lock
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Claw
    - V-create
    - Swords Dance
    - ExtremeSpeed

    Hello there, menace to stall! Rayquaza is a really threatening mon in this meta and can rip apart walls after a SD. Chansey, Giratina, Jirachi, and other mons often found on stall teams are obliterated at +2. Even without a SD boost, Rayquaza hits hard. Rayquaza beats Shaymin-S in two hits after SR with Extremespeed and destroys Ferrothorn with V-Create. I run Adamant Nature over Jolly for the extra power. For example, if I can get a SD boost against an offensive team, I have a chance to kill off Palkia and Kyogre after SR with Extremespeed. The speed loss is unfortunate but I am careful not to send Rayquaza in against fast offensive pokemon so I don’t notice it too much. Dragon Claw is used over Outrage so that I am not locked into a move and therefore easily revenged by scarfers. It cleanly OHKO’s Kingdra, which is a threat to this team (though Dialga and Kyogre can both take a Meteor and kill it if needed).

    I could run Mixed Ray over SD with a Naïve nature to help deal with fast offensive Groudon, but the ability to kill off offensive mons like Palkia with a +2 Extremespeed is appealing to me. Earthquake deals with Heatran, but I cannot find room for it. I have Kyogre and Kabutops to kill it anyway.


    [​IMG]

    Kabutops @ Choice Band
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Aqua Jet
    - Stone Edge
    - Waterfall
    - Low Kick

    This is a great cleaner so long Rain is up. The ability to outrun scarfers up to Garchomp while hitting extremely hard with STAB and Rain boosted Waterfall makes Kabutops one of the more underrated revenge killers and cleaners in the game. I use Choice Band to better check EKiller, as Low Kick will usually kill faster variants after SR damage. Killing Palkia most of the time after SR (252+ Atk Choice Band Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Palkia: 274-324 (85.35 - 100.93%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO) is important too. Aqua Jet is for Terrakion and Blaziken with more than 1 speed boost.

    I would really like to try Life Orb with Rapid Spin, but Terrakion becomes a much bigger issue for this team without it and the inability to kill EKiller (which are god damn everywhere)in one shot is unfortunate. Still, even though this team doesn’t need Rapid Spin to function, it’d be nice for my other mons, especially Rayquaza.


    [​IMG]


    Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 212 Spd / 252 Atk / 44 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Recover
    - Swords Dance
    - Stone Edge

    I really like SD Groundceus. It gives me an immunity to Thunder and an excellent Zekrom check. It can also lure in stuff like Giratina-A and hit it extremely hard with a +2 Earthquake, making a Kabutops clean much easier. The given EV’s maximize Groundceus’s power while allowing it to outrun base 100’s like Palkia. I suppose I could throw in a few more speed EV’s to outrun Thunrdus-T and Garchomp as well but haven’t gotten around to it.

    EdgeQuake gives Groundceus a potent combo that hits almost everything hard. Lugia -- after SR -- and especially Ho-Oh hate taking Stone Edge, whereas Earthquake is an extremely powerful STAB move coming off 372 attack and a 20% bonus from Earth Plate. Earthquake outdamages Shadow Claw even on Ghosts, so there is no need to run that weak coverage move to hit Ghostceus and Giratina-A. Groundceus makes this team weaker to Scarf Kyogre and Swift Swimmers, but checks Zekrom, Steelceus lacking Will-O-Wisp, Terrakion, and Electriceus. It also maximizes the value of Kabutops on this team.

    Note that the idea of running Groundceus and Kabutops together is not my idea. I shamelessly stole the combo from Prince Brian/Dice and thank him for that.


    Grass Arceus, Palkia, Offensive Groudon, and some Kyogre are issues this team has trouble with. Opposing Swift Swimmers are also a problem if Rayquaza is dead, though the only Swift Swimmer that can beat Rayquaza 1-1 (Omastar) is fortunately disposed of by Kabutops. Any suggestions/comments to improve this work-in-progress team would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! I will post an importable soon.


    Shout-outs:

    Imma Fly: Friends forever.

    Dice: Inspiration for this team was created by this user.

    Hack+Puregenius: For picking me in UPL. That apparently gets you a shout-out.

    Anyone who has contributed an analysis to this site: Thank you for your hard work.

    Chillarmy: For recognizing the inherent brilliance of Omastar and Kabutops, especially in Ubers. They suck in OU though.

    V4: requested a shout-out.
  2. saxtonhale

    saxtonhale

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    Daaaaamn son, I really like this team. Like, really. Very little to correct. Big props to Kabutops and Physical Scarfsect, I love both of them to death.

    I'm just gonna say Outrage over Dragon Claw on Rayquaza. I know that being locked in spells doom sometimes, but the boost in power may help you more.
  3. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
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    Precious few things can take a +2 252+ dragon claw from rayquaza and the ones that can (dialga, ferro, steelceus) get fucked by his other team members. And outrage is essentially the same as sacking rayquaza.

    Overall incredibly solid team with no inherent counter though scarfed palkia could pose problems under proper prediction but nothing that can't be played around.
  4. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    Ignoring super effectives and resistances for a moment, V-Create hits just as hard as Outrage. Also, as Haruno said, that +2 Dragon Claw is rather terrifying and almost everything (Heatran is rare enough) that can take +2 Dragon Claw is smashed to bits by V-Create. Outrage would be just one more move with a downside (V-Create's stat drops, Extremespeed is just too weak to OHKO much anything without significant prior damage even at +2). Its disadvantages on this set heavily outweigh the advantages.
  5. Sweep

    Sweep
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    Outrage is usable for having a chance to kill off full health Giratina-A...they switch out on me though and Rayquaza is so easy to revenge kill that I don't like locking myself into a move. Still, Outrage helps break down walls that resist V-Create so I will take this into consideration. Dragon Claw hits hard too :).
  6. MewTheDestroyer

    MewTheDestroyer

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    I honestly don't love this team too much, probably just because of my play-style, though. I'd like to see how this team takes on E-killer Arceus-Normal, because you have only two resists to the normal STAB it presents, and Genesect isn't going to be able to switch in on one, and in Dialga's balloon get's popped, it can get Earthquake'd. I'd say run Physically Defensive Giratina-O somewhere in this team to make it less of a threat, but it's hard to see where it could fit, is the issue. You could also always try Life Orb on Kabutops, because switching moves is always nice, and the power drop isn't really noticeable. Anyways, good synergy, even though I don't like the team, it's still good. :]
  7. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
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    Ekiller will be hard pressed to get an sd up due to how offensive sweep's team is. Also earthquake isn't all that common on ekiller iirc. Kabutops ohko's ekiller and can take a +2 espeed which it can't do with life orb.
  8. Sweep

    Sweep
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    I do love Giratina-O, though after SR Kabutops can usually kill it with Low Kick. Life Orb EKiller dies too easily and Lefties/Lum Berry cannot secure OHKO's at +2 while everything on my team hits it kinda hard. However, Silk Scarf EKiller with significant bulk investment are problematic so I can test this over Rayquaza, though I will miss the priority.
  9. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    I like this team Sweep! It is probably your best hand-made up to date, although no death star :( Thanks for the shoutout, though!

    I see entry hazards as somewhat of a weakness, which is natural, as you lack a spinner. But most users will be hard pressed to get many hazards up early, as this team is s hard hitting in its nature. Another threat is Arceus-Grass who can cripple pretty much all of your team and only Rayquaza and Genesect can hit it really hard (and Kyogre/Kabu on the switch). However, you lack a clear switch in on it as Rayquaza falls to Ice Beam and Genesect can get caught by Thunder Wave, which destroys it. Don't see Palkia as too much of a threat, since you usually get up rocks early, and since can only get in on Kyogre and Kabutops (sometimes) it will be hard pressed to maintain its health. But, both you and me know how incredibly threatening Palkia can be to this team after all matches we have had vs each other, but since this team produces so much offensive pressure, I don't think it is too big of a problem.

    Grass Arceus problem can still be fixed by proper playing, trying to paralyze it with Dialga, Ice Beam it on the switch with Kyogre etc will but decent pressure on it and bring it down to a point where Kabutops can take it out later on. Nice team again!
  10. Matt Tuck

    Matt Tuck

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    This is a really solid team!

    RP Groudon seems like a problem late game if Kyogre goes down or if Kyogre is present but Kabutops goes down (course you won't let that happen though :p) I suppose you could run more speed on Dialga to bait out Groudon and then hit him before he hits you but looking at the offensive pressure this team puts on the opponent it isn't really necessary its more of a precaution. Also could you explain why you run 44 HP for Groundceus since I'd rather have the ability to speed tie with CM Arceus on an offensive team as compared to some small bulk (unless it does something significant for you).
  11. Sweep

    Sweep
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    Matt Tuck: The 212 speed allows me to outrun base 100's like Palkia and hit them hard with Earthquake. The extra HP doesn't help that much, but it is essentially leftovers anyway. I really want an Adamant nature to hit stuff like Giratina really hard at +2, not to mention Lugia after Stealth Rock which often switches in thinking I am Calm Mind and can easily be phazed away! The harder Groundceus hits walls, the easier a time Kabutops will have cleaning enemy team. Thanks for the rate & I may try max speed Life Orb Dialga at some point, though I really like TWave Max HP.

    And thanks Hack! I don't really mind hazards on my side of the field so long Toxic Spikes are not thrown in there, and very rarely will my opponent get more than 1-2 anyway. I do want SR up to turn 3HKo's into 2HKO's, and I consider Dialga to be one of the best SR users in the game. Dialga's ability to beat Magic Bouncers is an added bonus (it outruns standard Xatu and 2HKO's it with Dragon Pulse so it cannot switch in...Dialga also easily handles Espeon). Lum Berry Dialga handles Tentacruel so long Rain is not up due to TWave, and deals massive damage to Bulky Exca with Fire Blast, ensuring it cannot switch in. I hardly ever fail to get SR up with Dialga unless I am ambushed by an offensive Groudon.
  12. Donkey

    Donkey

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    mfw this team can adequately handle palkia
    shmogi and moonbase like this.
  13. finalninja243

    finalninja243

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    I'm pretty sure that at +2, Rayquaza's D-Claw OHKOs all Giratina-A forms. +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza Dragon Claw vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 530-624 (105.36 -124.05%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  14. CarbonTheSecond

    CarbonTheSecond

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    Okay, I'm pretty sure that Joim just used this exact same team against me, so... having faced it, I can't really come up with any detailed flaws. Aside from Kyu-W, which can deal heaps of damage to a good part of your team (given proper support and predictions, of course), there isn't much that can dent it.

    In regards to the question of Outrage vs. Dragon Claw, I've seen the damage from Dragon Claw against my own Giratina A, and the damage difference really is negligible. When unboosted, both aren't enough to KO, and allow Tina to get off a Will-o and cripple. When at +2, both would have ended up killing it.

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