1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Team Destiny Tower - A Team At its End (A 5th Gen LC RMT)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Destiny Warrior, Oct 27, 2010.

  1. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,171
    [​IMG]

    Introduction
    Welcome to team Destiny Tower! This team is from the alpha LC era, an era where gentleman’s agreements were abound about banlists. In short, all of last Gen’s Uber Pokemon and items were banned, with the exception of Berry Juice. Unfortunately, there still isn’t enough data to make a detailed threat list, so bear with me please!

    This team originally started with the idea of "Can FWG be made to ork in LC?". This team isn't something like an OU FWG team, but the core is a FWG one.

    This team has gone through so many tweaks from its creation that a team bilding process would drag on for ages, so I've skipped that on this team.

    Note: Speed Boost Carvanha was a very recent addition, which came when Serebii added Vanha to available DW Pokemon. However, by then, this team was already fast reaching the end of its glory days, and so, this is officially a retirement of this team. Enjoy!

    At a Glance

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The Team

    Decimus Brutus and the Navy

    [​IMG]
    Ishizumai (M) @ Berry Juice
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 76 Atk / 76 Def / 236 SDef / 76 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Rock Blast
    - Earthquake

    Ishizumai generally starts off things with his entry hazards. Except for the rare Taunt leads, Ishizumai gets up Stealth Rock immediately, and if deemed safe, also throws up as many layers of Spikes as possible before scarpering. Rock Blast is THE reason why Ishizumai is very rarely sacrificed early in the game, as the ability to break Substitutes has proved to very important. Do recall that this team was at its prime in the pre-Ubers era, where the only Ubers from last generation that found any sort of usage were Murkrow and Misdreavus. Rock Blast ensures SubKrow cannot have fun, and it provides a solid STAB move to circumvent Focus Sash.

    Earthquake provides excellent neutral coverage, and also ensures that Ishizumai does not become set up bait for Komatana, who is a MASSIVE pain in the neck to this team. Unfortunately, with the number of leads running around, there are no top 10 leads to check Ishizumai against, so sorry about that!

    Decimus Brutus cleared the way for Caesar’s navy to cross the English Channel after his (re)conquest of Britannica, and several other times starts things off by destroying any naval opposition, like Pompey’s ships.





    Titus Labienus and the Eleventh

    [​IMG]
    Darumakka (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Hustle
    EVs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Flare Blitz
    - Fire Punch
    - Brick Break
    - U-turn

    Darumakka is my early game revenge killer. Flare Blitz and Fire Punch together may seem odd, but they serve very different purposes. Flare Blitz helps me plow through things like Gligar switching in on a predicted Brick Break, while Fire Punch is a reliable option late game when I want to sweep with Darumakka. U-Turn provides a valuable scouting tool, and its not like Darumakka misses Rock Slide too much when it shouldn’t even be in on Mantyke in the first place.

    Darumakka is often used to regain momentum if I am forced to sacrifice something. He’s an invaluable member of my team, and can often rip unprepared teams apart. Really, other than Bronzor thast has set up Reflect and Mantyke, this thing can Revenge kill ANYTHING. I just hate Hustle’s side effect though…

    Like Titus Labienus, Darumakka savagely attacks anything in his path. He has no qualms with killing(he’s a revenge killer duh) and can turn battles around with his brute force.





    Quintus Cicero and the Ninth

    [​IMG]
    Pururiru (M) @ Evolution Stone
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 236 HP / 116 Def / 156 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Boil Over
    - Shadow Ball
    - Recover
    - Will-O-Wisp

    My priority stopper. My team really lacks priority(something I need help with, denizens of RMT!), so I need a good full stop to Croagunk. Enter Pururiru. With Ice Punch Croagunk running everywhere during alpha LC, Pururiru took advantage of the situation to beat through almost all priority with this set.

    Boil Over and WoW aim to cause burns, which really aid this team. Shadow Ball is there solely to beat Croagunk AND not get walled by other Pururiru. Recover is fairly obvious, as it helps me to keep Pururiru in good health for it pass around burns.

    Like Quintus Cicero in his battle against the Nervii, Pururiru can last a fair bit in battle and can act as a good defensive barrier.





    Replaced by:-

    Aulus Hirtius and the Sixth

    [​IMG]



    Zuruggu (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Earthquake Spiral
    EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 212 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Crunch
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch

    Scarf Zuruggu replaced Snover, since Snover didn't really do much for the team except revenge killing Gligar, which Zuruggu can do too. Zuruggu also provdes a crucial reliable check to Komatana, and with DD Zuruggu being extremely popular, Scarf Zuruggu can often take advantage of Komatana trying to Brick Break and can KO with Hi Jump Kick, and gain an attack boost to the boot.

    The moves provide excellent neutral coverage, which is very important for Choice Scarf and Earthquake Spiral to funnel a successful sweep.

    Aulus Hirtius took care of new recruits, like the Sixth when Caesar borrowed it from Pompey. He's an unfailing man, who can be trusted to cover the holes for the others, wich is also wha Zuruggu does.

    Marcus Crassus(the legate, not the consul!) and the Eighth

    [​IMG]
    Baltoy @ Berry Juice
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 196 HP / 76 Def / 36 SAtk / 196 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power
    - Rapid Spin
    - Protect

    The most unorthodox set I have ever personally devised, Baltoy can kill Gligar and Croagunk with its specific EVs, but dies in the process due to Hail. Baltoy also provides invaluable Rapid Spin support, along with 2 big immunities: Electric and Ground.

    This means that Baltoy can switch in on Scarf Gligar, and can Rapid Spin away entry hazards, meaning Snover and Darumakka are free to revenge kill later in the match. Protect is a good move for scouting, and helps me to ease prediction, something which is really necessary on this team.

    Baltoy plays a mainly supporting role, like Marcus Crassus, who often garrisoned Samarobriva when Julius Caesar had to leave it during his war in Gallia Comata.





    Julius Caesar and the Tenth

    [​IMG]
    Carvanha (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SDef / 236 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Aqua Jet
    - Waterfall
    - Crunch
    - Return

    The shark itself. Carvanha is my last ditch revenge killer, who with Speed Boost can clean up teams after Darumakka and Snover have rampaged. The moves are fairly obvious.

    Once Croagunk is eliminated, Carvanha often rips through teams, as Aqua Jet is often good enough priority to carry it through the late game. Speed Boost really helps in the matter of sweeping, a sit will outspeed a lot of Scarfers after a single boost, and will outspeed pretty much the whole metagame after 2. At that stage, its often gg for my opponents.

    If Carvanha goes down, I have a really tough time, since it holds the only priority on my team, and is thus my bestrevenge killer. Its also an efficient Croagunk lure, who is a free opportunity for Pururiru to come in most of the time.


    The man himself. Like Julius Caesar can dismantle entire provinces under the control of his enemies, Carvanha can dismantle entire teams when played properly.

    Final Look
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Rate away guys!

    P.S.: Props if you can guess who all the nicknames are! Though its kinda obvious...
  2. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,746
    Hey there, looks like you have got a nice team over there.

    Even though I play virtually no LC, I remember that one of the early versions of this team(with a mixed Shikijaka) took a beating from sandstorm stall, once Snover was out of the picture. No wonder Snover is an integral part of this team's success.

    Also, try Toxic instead of WoW on Pururiru. You already have BoilOver, which I guess can net you burns quite easily. I understand that your team is somewhat frail physically, though. Pururiru can ToxicStall easily.

    Carvanha is quite the beast. With Spd Boost, he is a great late-game sweeper, though you might want to drop a move for Protect, in-case you want some speed ASAP.

    Overall, nice team. Would like to guess if the nicnames were from Shakespeare's tragedy Julius Caesar, though you told me :
    Show Hide
    That it is a book
  3. (makeup)

    (makeup)
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,874
    Snover wants HP > HP Fire + Water Pulse, this way it still hits fire types and steel types, and gives you an extra moveslpt for anything you want. I suggest Wood Hammer for Munchlax
  4. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,979
    Bartman, Speed Boost Vahna can't have Zen Headbutt.

    How does this team deal with Komatana? It can SD on Snover and OHKO everything here.

    Recommending ScarfChop, Scarf Mankey, or some other Fighting scarfer I can't think of, to replace Darumakka, since they tank Sucker Punch and use STAB Fighting moves, which usually kill Komatana.
  5. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,171
    @Calm Pokemaster: Toxic Stall isn't possible in LC. Puru will just about tank one hit, Toxic the opponent, and just die in the next hit. I need all the burn chances I can get, as its my best way of dealing with a lot of Pokemon. There isn't any need for "speed ASAP", as Carvanha is already speedy, and will get all the speed he needs without Protect.

    @Darkamber8828: Like I mentioned somewhere in the RMT, Komatana is a big threat to this team. Its the reason why I barely bring out Snover till I've scouted my opponent's team, and why I sparingly use U-Turn on Darumakka. Eery member of this team has an attack that can hit Komatana super effectively, except for Pururiru who was WoW, and Carvanha, who shouldn't even be out until I am sure Komatana is not on my opponent's team. I'll consider the change to scarfChop, which would help with my priority problem, but Darumakka's brute force means I need to consider it a bit more.

    P.S. Scarf Mankey gets OHKO'd by Komatana after an SD.
  6. Wynought

    Wynought

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    240
    For your Pururiru, if you're using WoW, may I suggest Evil Eye > Shadow Ball as it becomes a 100 base power move with the exact same coverage.
  7. Alchemator

    Alchemator my god if you don't have an iced tea for me when i
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,803
    Due to the style of team and the Pokemon that you are using, Houndour can cause a lot of problems with your core - particularly Subdour. It can come in on Darumakka or Snover locked into the wrong move (or even a Will-o-Wisp from Pururiru, but you really have to be ballsy to try that!) and proceed to set up a Sub, and destroy one of your counters. One of your resists [Pururiru] is weak to Crunch, and the other is the frailest Pokemon in the game [Like you need telling which one this is?].

    The best way to avoid Subdour rampaging through your team is, quite obviously, to give it as few opportunities as possible and be cautious with Darumakka early-game. However, if you want a safer approach then you could always try a Subdour of your own which, while it would not be able to do too much damage to opposing Houndour, boasts excellent power and resists / is immune to Houndour's moves.

    [​IMG]
    name: MixDour
    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2:
    Crunch
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Sucker Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Flash Fire
    nature: Lonely
    evs: 196 Atk / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 76 Spe
    ivs: 0 HP


    Really just whacking Houndour about with Darumakka's U-turn early-game should solve the problem. Watch out for Sucker Punch though, it OHKOs Darumakka as far as I know...
  8. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,171
    Wynought: The big problem with EE is that I often have to drop a ghost attack on the switch, and EE is too weak with a status already in place, which cannot be guaranteed.

    Persistece: SubDour is really rare(I think you're the only one who uses it :P, but due to the threat of Komatana, I'm already very careful with Darumakka. Thanks for the advice however, and I'm considering MixDour there, so ifsomebody could advice me on that, I would be realy grateful!
  9. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,156
    Hi DW!

    This looks like a very solid team, and you do seem to have covered the threats I can think of off the top of my head. However, you did mention your slight Komatana weakness. My suggestion is to add a Choice Scarf Zuruggu- not only does he take little from Sucker punch thank to 4x resist and bulk, he is also an excellent revenge killer in this metagame. A moveset of Drain Punch / Crunch / Hi Jump Kick / filler (maybe Ice Punch or Stone Edge or Head Smash) works fine, and Earthquake Spiral helps it do a great lategame cleaning up job. I really cant properly decide who to replace, but I'm inclined towards replacing Snover- I don't really see how anyone on your team benefits from hail apart from the residual damage, and Zuruggu brings similar offensive presence to the table. You still have Carvanha to revenge kill Moguryuu with Aqua Jet so that shouldnt really be as big a problem.

    Another slightly shakier solution would be a Substitute using Misdreavus, either SubSneak or SubPlot. It relies on prediction and a fair bit of luck to Substitute up on Sucker Punch, but if you do that then you are free to OHKO Komatana with Hidden Power Fighting on the next turn. SubSneak Missy makes for a great Pokemon in general, with wallbreaking capabilities as well as the ability to clean up late game. But like I said, this requires prediction to beat Komatana.

    That's all I can say really, although you could have some fighting priority on the team to beat Shell Breakers like Purotooga and Omanyte, as well as to help take down other threats. Maybe a Dokkora somewhere, but I'm not too sure about that.

    Once again, solid team, and may your following teams be just as good, or even better!
  10. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,171
    Thank you for the suggestion! Scarf Zuruggu does indeed fix my Komatana weakness, and it still smacks things hard, so I'll replace Snover with it.
  11. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,156
    One thing though, Id recommend Drain Punch over one of the Punches for lategame cleaning up when Drain Punch can finish off everything. HJK misses are really unfortunate at those times, and Drain Punch also has the healing effect which is somewhat appreciated. I don't see what youre really hitting with ThunderPunch (Pururiru is hit harder by Crunch) apart from Mantyke (other waters are hit harder by a STAB HJK).
  12. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,171
    Dran Punch does sound like a good option, since ThunderPunch only covers Mantyke, and I guess it doesn't do the job too well either, so I'll make the change.
  13. irkkk

    irkkk

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    92
    you may want to replace return with substitute. If Vanha gets up a sub, something WILL die. Return has no purpose except hitting gunk but the ghost water thingy handles him. Also may i ask were you play your 5th gen lc?
  14. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Messages:
    3,171
    The only mons Vanha will likely need a Sub for are Meditite and Croagunk. Like you said, GUnk is dealt with by Puruiru, but its nice to be able to smack it hard when it switches in if I ca predict it. Meditite is a pain in general, but I'll consider Sub.

    I play 5th Gen LC On Pokemon Online.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)