1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Team F.E.A.R.

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Notesalot, Jan 26, 2010.

  1. Notesalot

    Notesalot

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18
    Hello Fellow Smogonites. This is my second RMT, and one I finally got the guts do build myself from scratch, rather than copying a current team from the forums (as was my last RMT). I don't consider myself skilled enough to make my own movesets quite yet, so please forgive the somewhat unoriginal pokes in this team.

    Team Building Process
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    I knew I wanted to build a team around Lucario. However, I've had very bad luck in the past, mainly because he is fairly predictable. I mean c'mon, who hasn't seen a SDLuc before? Thus, I decided to go with the unpredictable; Choice Specs Lucario. There is no "hard" counter to the SpecsLuc and I wanted to see if I could build and effective team around him.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    SpecsLuc has several prominent counters that come to mind. Blissey, and since I was running HP Ice, Gyarados and Zapdos. DDTar works great on many of these, often forcing many switches that let me get a DD up.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now, I'm extremely ground weak even though I run HP Ice. I also needed a good Stealth Rocker to help me nab important OHKO's with Lucario, and something that could scout my opponent's team, which would allow me to bring in Lucario at the right time. Swampert, with his great defenses and access to SR and Roar, seemed to fit the bill perfectly.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Now this is starting to look like an offensive team. I personally hate suicide leads or leaving my leads out in the cold. I needed something that could take Grass-type moves and continue to help me scout the opponent's team. Scizor was perfect since I could spam his U-turns mercilessly back to my RoarPert.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Now, I have a HUGE Gyarados weakness. He can set up on 2 of my pokes, DD, then promptly take out my two sweepers with Earthquake and Waterfall. Standard Rotom-H is perfect for dealing with him, as well as providing great utility for my team with Will-o-Wisp, one of my favorite moves.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now for the final member. Lucario deals with Rotom-A and Gliscor and Tyranitar deals with Zapdos and also Rotom-A should Lucario fail to do so, so why not stick a Gyarados in with his main counters eliminated? He has great synergy with Tyranitar, as they cover each others weaknesses near perfectly.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now, this team doesn't sport a lot of speed other than Scizor's priority and post-DD Tyranitar and Gyarados. Also, I only have two special attackers, and my whole DDGyara weakness hinges on keeping Rotom-H alive. I don't like relying on one pokemon to keep my team together. As I continued laddering with this team, I found myself actually diverting from my main goal of getting a SpecsLucario sweep and actually never really used him for most of my battles. With my scouting strategy with Swampert/Scizor, I was actually getting most of my sweeps with my TTar/Gyara core. Sometimes I would even lose because of Lucario! So, even though I had challenged myself to utilize SpecsLucario, it was time to say goodbye. I needed something to keep DDMence a little more in check than it was before. So I found Latias. She brought my team some much needed speed and a varied movepool I could use to my advantage, plus she lures and kills Scizor, which is never a bad thing.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    So there is my current team! The main goal is to set up a Tyranitar sweep, because that guy is just awesome. A few notables about the team:

    • Except for Ice, Rock, or Dragon (whoops), every type is resisted twice.
    • Only one pokemon is weak to Stealth Rock.
    Let's look more closely:


    Descriptions and Synergy

    CHANGES WILL BE IN THIS COLOR


    [​IMG]
    Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
    Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Beam
    - Roar
    ---

    Truly my favorite lead I've ever used. I chose him because I like scouting my opponents team before I do anything. I've been really luck with Roar. I guess not a lot of people expect it or something, but I usually scout at least 3 pokemon on the other team by the time he gets low on health. When combined with Scizor's U-turn, I often find myself only revealing 2 of my pokes while I've seen all 6 of my opponents. Also, he has enough defenses to take a +1 LO Outrage from Salamence and OHKO back with Stealth Rock damage. Stealth Rock is crucial for Tyranitar and Gyarados, and Earthquake is good old-fashioned STAB that comes in handy with ScarfJirachi. If it gets to be late game and this guy is still alive, I'll bring him in to take Tricked Scarfs, namely from Jirachi, since they are the bane of Tyranitar.

    How I handle common leads:


    • [​IMG]Metagross: Set up Stealth Rock, then Earthquake. If I feel like it's going to explode, I switch to Rotom to take the BOOM.
    • [​IMG]Azelf: I Ice Beam as they taunt, then to Tyranitar. Again, if I feel like she's gonna blow, I switch to Rotom.
    • [​IMG]Jirachi: Earthquake, but I usually get Scarfed. I go to Rotom for WoW and see what gets sent in.
    • [​IMG]Swampert: Set up stealth rock (which it will also do) and then Roar it away. I'll try Rotom to get a WoW on it if need be.
    • [​IMG]Aerodactyl: Ice Beam on the Taunt and see what opponent sends in.
    • [​IMG]Infernape: Stealth Rock and then Roar to switch out the counter coming in, since LeadApe's are stupid if they stay in on LeadPerts.
    • [​IMG]Hippowdon: Stealth Rock the Ice Beam. If he Roars, well, there's nothing I can do about that.
    • [​IMG]Bronzong: Stealth Rock then Roar.
    • [​IMG]Ninjask: Stealth Rock and maybe and Ice Beam (but he protects), then Roar on the Baton Pass and laugh.
    • [​IMG]Tyranitar: Earthquake and threaten 2HKO, then Stealth Rock on the switch or Roar.
    Synergy:

    Grass - Scizor, Rotom, Latias


    [​IMG]
    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Pursuit
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - U-turn
    ---
    This guy has two jobs on my team. First, when I bring him in early game, I just U-turn straight back to Swampert and continue Roaring. Or if my opponent reveals an important pokemon, like Rotom, I can bring in Tyranitar and set up. Second, he is my revenger killer in case DDSalamence gets too trigger happy with Outrage. I can also use him for Latias, but I usually leave that to Tyranitar. The only thing I'm worried about is that he is my only Dragon-resistant team member, but Bullet Punch and U-turn make up for that.

    Synergy:
    FIRE - Latias, Tyranitar, Swampert

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-h @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/168 Def/88 Spd
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - THUNDERBOLT
    - SLEEP TALK
    - REST
    - Will-o-wisp
    ---
    This guy is my Step #3. When I've done some scouting with Swampert and Scizor, I like to bring this guy in to start wreaking havoc with status effects. He is my main switch-in for Scizor and Jirachi when they threaten Tryanitar. Discharge and Will-o-Wisp may seem contradictory, which they are. I haven't actually been benefiting much from paralyzation (is that a word?), and i needed a more powerful move for bulky waters. Once a Pursuiter like Tyranitar comes in WoW becomes essential for my team to survive. WoW generally devastates physical sweepers which is great for letting either Tyranitar or Gyarados set up. Plus, many people ragequit when I WoW their Salamence. :)
    I was really having trouble with status, so I took bluewooper's suggestion and made Rotom-H a reliable status absorber.

    Synergy:
    GHOST - Tyranitar, Scizor
    DARK - Tyranitar, Scizor

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - EARTHQUAKE
    ---
    Ahhh, the bulky set-up sweeper #1. When I bring him in on Latias or Rotom, everyone thinks I'm packing pursuit and I get a free Dragon Dance and prepare to sweep. I don't run Babiri berry because I have Latias to lure and OHKO Steel-types, and Rotom-H should she fail. With Life Orb, I can afford to give up the extra power Adamant provides and go with Jolly. I really like the Jolly nature as it lets me outspeed Starmie, Azelf, Infernape and Latias after a Dragon Dance. I already have a good counter to Scizor in Gyarados if Latias hasn't already lured it out for a OHKO, so I put EQ back in the moveset.

    Synergy:
    WATER - Latias, Rotom-H, Gyarados (if no HP Electric)
    GRASS - Latias, Scizor
    FIGHTING - Rotom-H
    GROUND - Gyarados
    BUG - Rotom-H, Scizor
    STEEL - Gyarados, Latias

    [​IMG]
    Gyarados (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    ---
    The second part of my bulky sweeper core. He perfectly complements Tyranitar by taking out Steels and being immune to Ground-types, both of which allow him to set up with ease and sweep. He is my answer to Gliscor and Scizor, two of Tyranitar's main sources of grief. I went with Earthquake over Ice Fang since I have Scizor to revenge all kinds of Salamence after Stealth Rock and any damage Gyara does to it.

    Synergy:
    ELECTRIC - Swampert, Latias, Tyranitar
    ROCK - Swampert, Scizor

    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Surf
    - Grass Knot
    - Draco Meteor
    ---

    I saw this set on the Smongon Analysis and immediately fell in love with it. If my Gyarados goes down for some reason without taking out Scizor, this guy easily takes him out, although he takes a hefty amount from Bullet Punch. I miss a good Thunderbolt, but I needed a way to get rid of Swampert with Grass Knot. This set helps me lure out most of Tyranitar's counters - Scizor, Swampert, and Scarf Jirachi, which is essential for setting up Tyranitar's sweep. Expert Belt lets me bluff a Choice Item since there's no recoil from Life Orb, which encourages opponents to switch in their steel-types because they think I'm locked into Surf or Grass Knot, but I've been considering slapping a Choice Scarf and Trick on her to revenge +1 DDMence. Need help deciding this. Finally, Draco Meteor is there when I need a really powerful special attack for breaking physical stallers.

    Synergy:
    ICE - Scizor
    BUG - Rotom-H, Scizor
    GHOST - Tyranitar, Scizor
    DARK - Tyranitar, Scizor

    I have been battling with this team for quite some time now, and it has helped raise my CRE to ~1300, which I consider quite good for me. This team has probably been through 60 battles or so, and I've probably won around 40 battles, but I'm looking to improve to at least 1400. Please Rate!


    ULTIMATE THREAT LIST COMING SOON! Each pokemon in the Offensive and Defensive threat lists plus their top 3 movesets.
  2. bluewooper

    bluewooper

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    154
    Just a few quick things: On your team, Latias does not need a choice scarf to Counter DD Mence. Gyarados can come in on the switch and Intimidate, followed up by Stone Edge. Rotom can Wow Salamence, and even Scizor can Bullet Punch to 2hko with SR up. Don't forget about swampert's Ice beam.

    You currently lack a solid Status absorber, which I can see becoming a problem with all those setup sweepers you have. Try out this new Rotom set:
    [​IMG]
    Rotom-h @ Leftovers
    Bold 252HP/168DEF/88SPEED
    Sleep Talk/Rest/WOW/Discharge

    This set still counters gyarados, and takes less damage from Waterfall. You don't lose much type coverage by losing Shadowball, because Tyranitar's Crunch still hits the ghosts and psychics super effectively. The speed Evs are designated to outspeed most Scizor, so that you can WOW, thus decreasing its effectiveness.

    Tyranitar: Personally, I would use Earthquake over Fire punch. Why? Fire punch is to mainly deal with Scizor. However, Gyarados with intimidate will serve as a nice Scizor counter and will have the opportunity to set up with Dragon Dance.
  3. MetaNite

    MetaNite
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,510
    This is a very good team. At first glance, you seem to have all the major threats checked in some way. There are some things that I think can make your team better however. Altering Rotom-H's set can be hugely beneficial to your team, and various set up sweepers.

    Rotom-H @ Light Clay
    Nature: Timid / EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
    ~ Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball / Reflect / Light Screen

    Dual Screen Rotom-H can easily set up against many Pokemon. Behind a Light Screen, Gyarados can survive weaker Thunderbolts, Tyranitar can take Earthquakes no problem (not to mention Scizor's Bullet Punch). Behind a Reflect, Latias can take a Crunch from Choice Scarf Tyranitar and answer back with Grass Knot if need be. The other reason for such a Rotom-A is insurance against SD Lucario. Your only true check to it is Gyarados, being weak to Stealth Rock, may not always be around. This Rotom-H outspeeds Adamant Lucario and quickly set up a Reflect so Latias can take an Extreme Speed and Swampert can survive a +2 Close Combat (that is if its health isn't low enough to kill with Thunderbolt).

    Nothing else I can really suggest without altering strategy and probably your effectiveness overall. Great team and good luck.
  4. Vaz

    Vaz

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Messages:
    585
    Ah, a nice team, just a couple of things that you might want to consider. You might want to use Thunderbolt instead of Hidden Power Fire. Protect might also be helpful for Swampert if you want to give up your Phazer. It is great against Exploding Azelf, but you have a ghost which is of equal use.
  5. Notesalot

    Notesalot

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18
    Hey, thanks for the rate! I've been testing this Rotom-H out and have loved it so far. I like still outspeeding Scizor with WoW. It's funny because as soon as you proposed this set, I started having trouble with status, so this set works perfectly.

    Yeah, I've changed back to Earthquake. I guess I was just really worried about Scizor so much, but I already have Gyarados and HP Fire Latias to deal with it.

    Thanks a lot for the rate! I like the dual screen idea and have been testing it out. It makes people ragequit somewhat :) Both these Rotom-A sets work better than my original one, but Status has really been killing me, so I'm going to be using bluewooper's suggestion. However, if I find myself having a lot of trouble with Lucario, I will be using this set.

    I do miss Thunderbolt on Latias, but since she acts as my lure for Scizor I need to keep Hidden Power Fire on her. On Protect vs. Roar, it is really important for me to see most of my team with the combination of RoarPert/U-turnScizor. Plus, like you said, I have a ghost to take the BOOM, so I'm not too worried about that. Thanks for rating!

    I'm putting together the ULTIMATE THREAT LIST, which will have the combined Offensive and Defensive Threat lists, plus each pokemon's top 3 movesets. Coming Soon!
  6. palkia the ultimate being

    palkia the ultimate being

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2010
    Messages:
    7
    hello. this team is very good and im impressed that you are using synergy for your team which is good btw because synergy can go a long way if you use it right. but i agree with palace maven spenser. you should get rid of hidden power fire and replace it with thunder or thunder bolt because it can also be very useful against the nasty water types that can hurt the team like dragon dance gyrados or any other dangerous gyrados, milotic, or maybe kingdra if your romtom is fast. thats all you need and then your team is good to go. good luck dude.
  7. Notesalot

    Notesalot

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18
    Thanks for the rate ptub! Unfortunately, Latias is my early game lure for Scizor and as such I require HP Fire on her. I went ahead and put TBolt back on my Rotom. To tell you the truth, I haven't been having that much trouble with bulky waters. I do as much as I can with Rotom, and then Roar them out with Swampert (especially CM Suicune). Once the rest of their team is gone, I can afford a pokemon to weaken them and then bring in Latias with Grass Knot for the KO.
  8. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,780
    Hello.

    First of all, this is bulky offense, not heavy offense, as you suggested in the PM. It is, however, an excellent, though standard, team.

    I would actually go for Metanite's Rotom set, because you do have a slight Lucario weakness.

    I really can't find much to say, but have you tried running Lum berry on DDtar? This would give you some sort of status absorber, but mainly it will frequently allow you two Dragon Dances, and allow you to set up on Will-o Wisp Rotom among others. You should obviously run adamant with this.

    I can see problems with a last poke Crocune here, which may be one advantage of Scarf Latias/Rotom.

    The word is paralysis by the way.

    Great team and good luck.

    Synergy is a horrible word, but I would admit that there is plenty of it.
  9. Snorlaxe

    Snorlaxe 2 kawaii 4 u
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,230
    hello, i got your pm, so here we go! :)

    this is truly an excellent team as other users have pointed out. the synergy is quite good, and really the way that you have the metagame's major threats checked in one way or another is quite admirable. this team is at a point where it is so good that only little changes are necessary, and any other bigger changes would require a miniature "reworking" of the team. i do definitely advocate a lum berry on tyranitar, however, as it can be a huge help when setting up on pokemon like blissey who can eat a +1 stone edge and then thunderwave you, ruining your sweep. between life orb and tyranitar's problems with priority moves, it really won't be staying around for as long as you may like it to, and as such on a more "bulky-offense" style team like this one survivability is generally more important than immediate power. another thing that you may want to try out is a bulkier gyarados variant. gyarados is currently your "go-to-guy" on bullet punches, as well as one of the main pokemon preventing lucario from damaging your team. since gyarados is required to take so many hits on your team, then a bulkier variant could be quite beneficial. try a set of dragon dance | waterfall | taunt | bounce, an ev spread of 156 hp | 72 atk | 96 def | 184 spe, and an adamant nature with the item leftovers. taunt helps a lot on this gyarados as it stops status users like blissey as well as phazers like skarmory, who could otherwise interrupt gyarados's attempted sweep. bounce is useful in the final moveslot for increased leftovers revovery as well as dealing with celebi, but if you want gyarados to be able to take out steel type pokemon, earthquake is an acceptable choice as well. if i were you i would also go with discharge over thunderbolt on rotom-h, as while thunderbolt is slightly more powerful, discharge comes with a neat-o 30% paralysis rate. this is helpful as it cripples offensive teams, and allows tyranitar and gyarados to have a slightly more easy time setting up a sweep.

    you said that you were considering a choice scarf latias over your current set, and i have to say i think that this is a bad idea. the set that you are currently running on latias allows you to lure in and counter many pokemon that could otherwise cause tyranitar and gyarados problems, namely steel types and electric types. choice scarf latias, on the other hand, is basically the easiest pursuit bait in the entire game. a life orb latias is easily killed off by a pursuit after using draco meteor; the same holds true for choice scarf latias, only it is about one thousand times worse. the only major pokemon that choice scarf latias would cover for your team are dragon dance gyarados and dragon dance salamence. if your team struggled with these pokemon, then this would be an issue, but they really do not. swampert and rotom-h can handle dragon dance gyarados wonderfully, while salamence is taken care of by swampert and scizor. a scarf on latias would kinda be a waste of a pokemon i feel, and as such i really and truly do believe that you are much better off sticking with the set that you have now. if you are looking for some changes on latias, then recover could definitely work over surf. the only thing that surf is really hitting at the moment is ground type pokemon, who are already handled by gyarados. recover helps in shaking off any damage inflicted on latias when she switched in, as well as any residual damage that added up. the only problem with recover is that the "no choice item" surprise is kinda out of the bag once she uses it, but i feel like it would really help her increase her chances of survivability.

    hope i helped, great team, good luck! ;)
  10. Megan_Fox

    Megan_Fox

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    928
    Hey Notesalot, got the pm

    Seems like a good team, nothing much to point out.

    While you are right that discharge can get contradictory when used alongside WoW, i still think you should use it. The power drop is hardly noticeable and the paralysis is used for different stuff in comparision to wow. while WoW is for physical attackers discharge should be used more on stuff like Latias, Mixmence and stuff b/c a paralysis would be better against pokemon like that.

    In terms of scarfing latias > belt, i agree with SnorlaxE. Scarf/Band Tar and CB Scizors are literally ALL over the place and Latias is arguably the biggest pursuit bait. Although there are cons, there certainly are positives to it for the team. in addition to be a reliable check to stuff like DD Mence, Gyrados and it can trick a scarf on stuff like CM Rachi and Crocune which could cause problems under some circumstances. Even so, I feel the cons outweigh the plus's and i think u should keep belt

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)