D/P/Pt UU Team Free Bird (UU - RMT - peaked #3)

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Heysup, Jan 15, 2010.

  1. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    Introduction

    So after finally getting over that Raikou and Froslass are staying for at least another round, I start building a team with the new Pokemon in mind. I start by looking at my past most successful teams, and then see if that is the absolute best way to go. I try out some "purely offensive" teams, but Cresselia really stops those teams quite easily. I didn't know where to start after this, so I browsed the forums for a bit and came across the Froslass thread. It hit me like a kick in the nuts, "Oh I'll just make a team with Froslass and my two examples in it. DERP."

    So that's what I did. I made sure to have enough resistances to cover my lack of resistances from Swellow, as well as a Pokemon to manhandle the new UUs that people will undoubtedly be obsessed with. I came up with this:
    _______________________________________________
    Team Free Bird
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    _______________________________________________

    The team is named after a song by Lynyrd Skynyrd, and it clearly is referencing Swellow and Moltres on my team.

    This is a Final Fantasy Tactics Advance themed RMT; it is one of the best games I've played...ever.

    The title and FFTA are completely unrelated.
    _______________________________________________

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Venusaur (Elementalist) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/4 SDef
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Sleep Powder
    - Leaf Storm
    - Earthquake
    ---

    Role Summary:
    When I finally got myself to look at the metagame and "accept" that Froslass was here for this round, I decided "fine, I'll use Scarf Sleep". Scarf Sleep Powder is the only, yes, only way to stop all set up early game. This is especially important versus Omastar and other Stealth Rock leads since I need Moltres, Swellow, and Froslass to function properly at least until late game. Scarf Venusaur was the perfect candidate, as it provides me with excellent resists that are hard to come by when I am using so many "defensively-useless" Pokemon. It makes an unbelievable revenge killer for RPerior, Aggron, Swellow, DD Gatr, etc.

    Against other leads, I just Sleep. Against Arcanine, I switch to Moltres. Against Ambipom, I switch to Froslass.

    Moveset:
    Nothing out of the ordinary here except for Earthquake, which is for Raikou and "denting" Registeel. Leaf Storm hits pretty hard, Sludge Bomb hits other Grass-types and is a great late-game sweeping move. Sleep Powder is Sleep Powder.

    EVs, Nature, and Item:
    I felt I needed to run Timid, since otherwise I would have a huge ass problem with RP mons, specifically Rhyperior. I didn't want to lower my defenses for Earthquake either, as it still 2HKOes Raikou after Substitute.

    Elementalists use their nature-based moves to inflict many statuses on the foe, namely sleep.
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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Froslass (Black Mage) (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Snow Cloak
    EVs: 248 HP/228 Def/32 Spd
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Pain Split
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    ---

    Role Summary:
    Surprise (not), I'm using pro..er...bulky Froslass. How about Broslass? Just kidding (sort of). Anyway, Froslass is the absolute best Spiker in the game, bar none. It is part of the, in my opinion, broken trio of Pokemon that I'm using. Froslass makes it so that I can easily set up Spikes, especially in this metagame where I can use Tri Attack from Porygonz, and basically any Cresselia as set up bait. Not only does it set up Spikes easily, it also helps keep them on the field. Froslass beats, or at least severely weakens every Rapid Spinner in the tier. This means that Spikes and Stealth Rock will usually be up, and Moltres + Swellow are almost impossible to stop with those battle conditions.

    Moveset:
    Taunt is very useful for a lot of things, but the main reason I use it is to stop Foresight users. Spikes are Spikes, they are awesome. Pain Split is the real "kicker" on this set. It allows Froslass to heal up and weaken almost every Pokemon. This is very useful when you need to keep the opponent's Spinner weakened so they can't switch in again and Spin. Ice Beam is for hitting Donphan and the like. Fun Fact: Froslass beats Ambipom if I switch into Fake Out and use Spikes, Pain Split, and Ice Beam in that order. Donphan shares a similar fate, but I don't use Spikes first since I'll switch into Earthquake most likely.

    EVs, Nature, and Item:
    Bulky Froslass's EVs are explained somewhere in the UU new movesets thread and everywhere in the superthread. In short, Froslass is EV'd to outspeed max Speed base 95s, while retaining enough bulk to avoid being 2HKOed by Ambipom or CB Spiritomb.

    Black Mages use their mana to shoot Blizzards at their enemies. They also use other moves to stop the foe from using any magic of their own.
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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Donphan (Paladin) (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    ---

    Role Summary:
    Donphan is in this slot because it is essentially the only Pokemon who is bulky, hits hard, and can Spin + Stealth Rock effectively. It helps check Rhyperior as well. Stealth Rock is crucial, as it allows Moltres to have an easy time destroying the opponent. Spinning is crucial as well, as Moltres, Swellow, and Froslass absolutely hate Stealth Rock. There really isn't much to say about Donphan except that it is the "glue" that holds this team together.

    Moveset:
    Standard SR + Rapid Spin set, but with Stone Edge in the final slot. Stone Edge reliably OHKOes Froslass, and it also gives me a way to hit Moltres.

    EVs, Nature, and Item:
    Max Atk EVs and an Adamant nature give Donphan one of the most threatening STAB Earthquakes in the game. With max HP Donphan gets a leftovers number and has excellent physical bulk.

    Paladins hit extremely hard, but they also have decent support moves.
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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Moltres (Red Mage) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 40 HP/216 Spd/252 SAtk
    Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Air Slash
    - Fire Blast
    - Roost
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    ---

    Role Summary:
    Moltres is hot (yes it was a pun get over it). If I had a nickel for every time someone said "Wow I'm Moltres weak" after I send in Moltres and 2HKO their "counter"....I would probably have a lot of nickels. The reason for this, is that with Spikes and Stealth Rock, Moltres essentially goes from 11-15 safe switch-ins to.....0. 3 Pokemon (Azumarill, Chansey, and Altaria) can switch into Air Slash / Fire Blast and beat Moltres. However, Chansey has a very high probability of losing, and if it survives it's by the skin of its teeth. Altaria can't do shit to Moltres. And Azumarill is OHKOed by HP Grass. This is why I think Spikes are broken :). tl;dr: Moltres is a damn near unstoppable wall breaker / sweeper.

    Moveset:
    Standard Sweeper Moltres. Nothing much to say here. Fire Blast hurts. Air Slash hurts other stuff and flinches. HP grass covers Water-types and Rhyperior.

    EVs, Nature, and Item:
    252 SpA EVs and a Modest nature ensure many KOes. For starters, it 2HKOes most Cresselia, Chansey (with Spikes + SR), and others, while also OHKOing Azumarill with HP Grass after Spikes + SR. 216 Spe EVs allows it to outpace neutral Magmortar and max Speed Cresselia, while the 40 HP EVs help Moltres take random attacks, specifically Ice Beam + Psychic from Cresselia and Fire-type attacks from Arcanine and Blaziken.

    Red Mages are fairly quick, but their true strength comes from their damage-dealing capabilities. Double Cast allows them to hit the foe with two spells at the same time.
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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Absol (Ninja) (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Super Luck
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Sucker Punch
    - Superpower
    - Swords Dance
    - Night Slash
    ---

    Role Summary:
    Absol is definitely the anti-metagame Pokemon. Being able to check Cresselia, Porygonz, and the like make it a great Pokemon to have on your team. On top of this, it absolutely DESTROYs stall. If I send it in and get a Swords Dance on something like Cresselia or a Taunted Spiritomb, the opponent is absolutely forked. Absol is good against every team time except for those annoying pos Cleffa hail teams....

    Moveset:
    Swords Dance > Stall. Sucker Punch > Offense. Superpower > Everything else. Night Slash is Absol's main STAB attack, and the awesome crit rate is...awesome.

    EVs, Nature, and Item:
    Max / Max. Purely offensive, I was thinking about lowering Speed a bit since "everything" is going to be outpacing Absol, but I doubt it would help.

    Ninja's are pretty fast, but slower than Assasins, however they possess much deadlier melee strikes due to their "dual wield" ability. Dual wield allows Ninjas to hold two weapons, and attack twice as many times. This increases their chance to get a critical hit as well.

    _______________________________________________
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Swellow (Assassin)(M) @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Brave Bird
    - Facade
    - U-turn
    - Quick Attack
    ---

    Role Summary:
    I rarely have ever ran a team without Swellow since Crobat has been banned because of its ability to do what Crobat does best: check everything. However, Swellow doesn't live as long as Crobat, but instead it is one of the best, if not the best late game sweepers in UU. With Spikes and one use of U-turn, Swellows counters go from 24 to four. That is quite ridiculous if you ask me. Swellow picks teams apart late game after Absol and Moltres destroy their walls or core.[Cocky] That is, if I need to[/Cocky].

    Moveset:
    Standard Guts Swellow. Brave Bird hits hard and Ghosts. Facade hits harder (OHKOes Porygonz enough said). U-turn is to abuse Spikes with and reduce Toxic damage. Quick Attack is a must to deal with opposing Absol (who ALWAYS seem to Sucker Punch first).

    EVs, Nature, and Item:
    Max / Max with Jolly to outspeed everything minus Electrode who is...Electrode...as well as tying with other Swellow.

    Assassins are ridiculously fast, and hit incredibly hard. They OHKO almost everything with one of their moves. Assassins only have one major setback; they are very frail. They overcome this by avoiding damage with their high dodge rate and ability to move in and out of combat quickly.
    _______________________________________________

    Team Building

    As a pointed out in the intro, I figured that I would take my experiences with Froslass and apply them to this current metagame plagued with Cresselia and Porygonz everywhere. This includes 3 main Pokemon: Swellow, Moltres, and Froslass. Swellow has 4 counters after Spikes and U-turn, while Moltres has essentially 0 safe switch-ins after Spikes are in play.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Literally as soon as I took a step back to look at the team, I thought "Donphan". Donphan and Hitmontop were both viable options due to Rapid Spin and resisting Rock, however Donphan can actually pose a threat to Spinners without using Foresight. On top of this, Donphan also set up Stealth Rock.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Alright, so I have 2 Water weak Pokemon, and no resists. This means I have to pick a water or Grass type. Azumarill was my first thought, but I didn't like how it still didn't beat bulky waters when it switches in. My second and third thoughts were Sceptile and Venusaur. Sceptile was fast, but Venusaur was slightly bulkier and has Sleep Powder. I thought about it for a bit, and decided to lead with Scarf Venusaur. Scarf Sleep has only been great for me in the past, and while Dugtrio is annoying, no Dugtrio in their right mind would switch into Venusaur, especially when I'm going to be using Leaf Storm almost every attack. Sleep Powder Venusaur shuts down EVERY support lead, and also aids me against Rain.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Alright, so I have essentially every threat covered....except for one: Cresselia. I thought to myself "Which Pokemon benefits the most from Cresselia being in the metagame", similarly to the thinking I often use when I make teams (e.g. I used Cloyster in the Crobat metagame). I thought of 3 major ones: Drapion, Houndoom, and Absol. Absol was my choice of the 3 for many reasons. Absol has higher Attack than either of the other Pokemon (higher than Doom's SpA as well), while it also carries the fearsome move Sucker Punch, which is exceptional in a metagame with Porygonz. So Absol was my final Pokemon.

    Final Product:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  2. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    Defensive Threats

    [​IMG] Blastoise - Froslass blocks Spin, I switch in Venusaur on Surf and make sure that I don't let it come back in if Froslass happens to faint. A tactic that usually works is: Switch in Froslass, Spikes, Spikes, Pain Split, Pain Split, Venusaur, force out. Now it will come in and anything I have can KO it.

    [​IMG] Chansey - Chansey is set up bait for Donphan, Absol, and Froslass. Moltres can 2HKO with SR + Spikes.

    [​IMG] Claydol - Froslass.

    [​IMG] Cloyster - Venusaur OHKOes.

    [​IMG] Cradily - in SS it's hard to take down, but as long as Absol is alive I can KO it.

    [​IMG] Cresselia - Absol sets up on most variants, while Swellow U-turn deals with the fast Sub variants. Moltres can 2HKO it as well.

    [​IMG] Donphan - Donphan is usually an easy switch for Moltres, however if I have Spikes on the field, obviously I'll switch Froslass in. Froslass actually beats Donphan 100% of the time if I have more than 85% HP (and Stealth Rock is down) or 60% HP if Stealth Rock isn't down, as Earthquake does 59% max. I can then Pain Split and Ice Beam to KO Donphan.

    [​IMG] Mesprit - Set up prevented by Taunt or Sleep, and I get a chance to set up.

    [​IMG] Milotic - Venusaur is my number one switch. If I need to, I'll send Froslass in to weaken it.

    [​IMG] Nidoqueen - Not a big deal really, Moltres switches into almost anything and OHKOes. Donphan can spin away SR.

    [​IMG] Quagsire - "Anything" beats this...

    [​IMG] Regirock - Donphan.

    [​IMG] Registeel -
    Donphan, Absol, Moltres.

    [​IMG] Rotom - Venusaur is my main switch. Absol revenge kills non Sub variants easy.

    [​IMG] Slowbro - Walls nothing except "sort of" Swellow, who wil U-turn to something else. Slowbro isn't seen as much cause of Cresselia though.

    [​IMG] Spiritomb - Moltres rocks it. So does Absol, depending on the variant.

    [​IMG] Umbreon - Absol set up bait.

    [​IMG] Uxie - Slept if lead, Taunted if not.

    [​IMG] Weezing - Moltres OHKOes, and Froslass sets up Spikes on it.
    .......

    Offensive Threats


    [​IMG] Absol - Donphan is a good check, along with Swellow's QA.

    [​IMG] Alakazam - Absol, Scarf Saur, Swellow, etc.


    [​IMG] Ambipom - Froslass Spikes on most variants. Donphan easily handles every variant (minus lolNP).

    [​IMG] Arcanine - Moltres. Donphan if I "need" to.


    [​IMG] Azumarill - Venusaur. Froslass sets up on <not Waterfall>.

    [​IMG] Blaziken - Moltres + easily revenged.

    [​IMG] Drapion - Donphan.

    [​IMG] Feraligatr - Venusaur. Swellow revenge kills. Absol revenge kills. Froslass isn't OHKOed and can Pain Split. Etc.

    [​IMG] Froslass - Slept if a lead, otherwise I take care of it with basically anything. Donphan Spins away Spikes given the opportunity, and carries Stone Edge if Froslass tries to block Spin.

    [​IMG] Hariyama - Froslass, Moltres, or Donphan if needed.

    [​IMG] Hitmonlee - Froslass, Moltres, or Donphan if needed.

    [​IMG] Hitmontop - Froslass beats almost every variant with ease due to Taunt and Pain Split.

    [​IMG] Houndoom - Moltres.

    [​IMG] Kabutops - Donphan beats it when it isn't raining.

    [​IMG] Kangaskhan - Donphan.

    [​IMG] Leafeon - Moltres and Froslass.

    [​IMG] Magmortar - Mispredictions can be costly, but it is easily revenge killed.

    [​IMG] Mismagius - Venusaur and Absol both work well.

    [​IMG] Moltres - How on earth could I possibly switch into this thing? Luckily I have easy ways of revenge killing it.


    [​IMG] Omastar - Sleep, Taunt, etc to stop from setting up, and Moltres, Venusaur, and Absol can deal with it.

    [​IMG] Porygonz - Choiced variants give me free Spikes, while NP variants can't set up really, and if they do I can revenge kill them easily.

    [​IMG] Raikou - Venusaur is my initial switch, Froslass revenge kills. Donphan can take some variants as well.

    [​IMG] Rhyperior - Donphan works decently well.

    [​IMG] Scyther - Stealth Rock, Donphan, and Moltres usually handle this. Froslass helps too.

    [​IMG] Swellow - Donphan covers it pretty well. Venusaur revenge kills it.


    [​IMG] Torterra - Moltres beats non- Stone Edge variants, while Froslass can also take a hit and OHKO with Ice Beam. Venusaur outpaces and can Sleep or nearly OHKO it with Leaf Storm. Otherwise I have priority. It won't be sweeping anytime soon ^_^.


    [​IMG] Venusaur - My own Venusaur or Moltres come in on Leaf Storm, Froslass sets up on Sludge Bomb. Most physical variants are walled to hell and back by Moltres.


    Team Styles:


    Rain Dance - Annoying, but I can outstall them with careful switching. A well timed 8 turn dance w/ Kabutops in the wings can be deadly though.

    Stall - Absol usually beats most stall on its own...however Froslass, Swellow, and Moltres can smash through most stall as well.

    Sandstorm - Has trouble with Venusaur, Froslass, and Moltres, while Absol takes care of Cradily.

    Offense - I have Swellow, priority, and a Timid base 80 Scarfer, I'm not getting swept any time soon.
  3. franky

    franky
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    Hey HYU,

    Played this team today for the first time and I beat it with extreme difficulty. This team does a good job at keeping pressure I have to admit. My only concern with this team is Moltres' spread. Sure you get the certain 2HKOs, but believe me with Spikes and Stealth Rock support Moltres can still be a menacing force with Timid nature and 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe. The speed is so important, I can't stress that enough, you'll regret getting outpaced by beneficial 80s and getting outpaced by opposing 90s. The Pokemon you'll miss hitting for the 2HKO is Cresselia. For starters, I don't think Cresselia is switching in on Moltres so yeah.

    A came up with a lot of stuff for this team to change but in the end, Its just hard since it would shake the entire core and overall strategy of the team. As for other options, though you could consider Megahorn over Night Slash to hit strike Slowbro (without a boost), and Spiritomb harder than Night Slash would. As an added bonus, you can strike Tangrowth and defensive Uxie harder than Night Slash. overall gl.
  4. Bluewind

    Bluewind My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fea
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Hey, sup (Sorry, I just can't help it)

    Even though I never had the chance to play this team (at least not that I remember), I was able to attest how much of a good team that was when stalking you. I don't have much to add, but I'm going to back up Franky on his suggestion of Timid over Modest on Moltres. Having ran Moltres for a while on this stage, I do know Modest is terribly missed at times, but IMHO you just can't afford not to run Timid. First of all, due to your notable Moltres weakness, you'll want to at least tie with other ones. Second, once Frossy is gone, which isn't so hard with many CB pursuiters around, you'll be struggling against PZ, and once it comes in, something is going down. Added to that, Absol is far too unreliable when checking Sub sets. While using Timid doesn't guarantee you'll be beating Mr. Donald, it gets you to tie with it at worst.

    Besides that I don't have much to add. I kinda see a problem with Venusaur having to handle so many threats, especially bulky waters, without even having Synthesis to help. An Azumarill predicting a switch would be very troublesome, and so would be a Sub set with Ice Punch, but your team has other means of beating that and I'm sure you can get around those threads yourself.

    Good Luck =)
  5. Lemmiwinks MkII

    Lemmiwinks MkII

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    Looks like a great team Heysup, but one threat really sticks out as a big concern. That is a Jolly RP Aggron (particularly those with Magnet Rise in the last slot), as Venusaur doesn't outspeed it and your priority just bounces off it. I would know as I was using one to great success just a week or so back, and one thing I can attest to is that it is a real menace for teams with Swellow, as that thing provides it with the easiest of setup opportunities. Basically, all Swellow teams need a decent way of checking just about any and all Aggron after setup.

    So whilst checking it with offensive pressure is out of the question, I would strongly suggest you consider another priority user somewhere, preferably with Vacuum Wave. This is where I think the lack of mix Blaziken that used to be a staple on your teams really hurts, and is probably the best candidate. It would also act as an extra check for Porygon-Z, especially Sub variants that thwart Absol. The only problem with this is that you would have to replace Moltres, which is quite a big deal as that actually has some defensive potential unlike Blaziken. Another possible option is to replace Venusaur with a NP Toxicroak and shift Froslass to the lead position. Toxicroak would give you a better check against Water types and Rain, but you lose your Sleep Powder and makes you even more SubCM Raikou weak.

    I guess there is no easy solution to this, but you should be aware of the threat just in case you find a way to tweak your team in a way that suits you. I am also sure you are aware of the SubCM Cress weakness you have too, so I won't go anymore into that. Anyway, good luck with the team.
  6. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    I have been considering Timid for a while, but the loss of the 2HKO on Cresselia really concerns me. I'll try it anyway :)

    However Night Slash > > > > Megahorn. The fact that it has a ridiculous crit chance and perfect accuracy make it far more effective than Megahorn. Tangrowth is a non-issue, I have Venusaur.

    Probably going to try Timid Moltres.

    Personally, I have never had trouble with Porygonz, it needs to get rid of too many Pokemon before it can sweep. Swellow and Venusaur both revenge kill it, and Absol is quite reliable (Sub Pz is rare...as it should be).

    Azumarill "can" be threatening if I mispredict, but Sub variants are beaten by Froslass.

    Donphan? >_> I can't think of a better counter for Aggron than Donphan :o
    SubCM Cress isn't actually going to sweep me, but the problem is that I will almost always lose Absol against it...which is bad. I don't think there is really much I can do to stop that.
    _________________________

    Thanks for the rates :)
  7. Lemmiwinks MkII

    Lemmiwinks MkII

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    Not really, given that Aqua Tail 2HKOs your spread, and is potential setup fodder for Magnet Rise variants. I wouldn't mention any old threat that requires some playing around as a weakness just for the hell of it, it is just that your team is particularly liable to Aggron as you offer it easy setup and have no reliable method of dealing with it.
  8. IronBullet93

    IronBullet93 And we lived beneath the waves, in our yellow subm
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Hey fellow IM fan:)

    Excellent team, I remember playing you a few weeks ago.
    Backing up Timid on Moltres here, mainly to outspeed Jolly base 80's and tie with Timid Porygon-z.
    Also, you might want to try out Assurance on Donphan. I use it and it works excellently as I've seen Missy to be a common switch-in, to block spin or try and set up. Works decently on Froslass and other spin blockers as well. Spiritomb is 2HKOed by Earthquake anyway.
    Not much else to say, as Bluewind said, SubPunch Azu can do a number to your team, but I guess you can play around it depending on the moveset.
    Well done and gl.
  9. Maris

    Maris

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    1st off DAng you 2 week limit... I run a very similar team to yours thus it would be a waste of time to post mine.
    2nd what do you do against SR and spike stackers with a ghost type? say for instance I run mismagius Ill send it out to prevent you from spinning and threaten with shadow ball. meanwhile what can you do to beat it? send in absol and watch it flee. absol will die to its own LO recoil and you will be VERY ANGRY with the amount of stealth rock damage you are taking.

    my solution? run pursuit on absol reaplacing night slash. I know its painful to lose such a powerful and Reliable STAB but in order to spin its necessary. Alternativly you could do what i do and run Claydol

    Claydol@leftovers
    Evs 252HP 252 SPA 6 special defense
    Nature bold
    -shadow ball
    -earth power
    -rapid spin
    -stealth rock
    damage calc
    VS NP mismagius 42.7% - 51.1%
  10. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
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    Aggron really isn't much of an issue as long as I don't get severely outplayed and sacrifice Donphan. If I switch in Donphan and he uses Aqua Tail, then he has to pick set up or finish me off. If he finishes me off, I just revenge it with anything minus Froslass or Swellow. If he sets up, he gets Earthquaked. And nothing uses MRise + RP + Life Orb + Jolly, so I am safe for the most part there as well.

    Do you really think losing Moltres for Blaziken is worth it when I have a stellar (not "perfect", but stellar) check to Aggron?

    Assurance doesn't hit Moltres hard on the switch, which is my main reason for using it other than OHKOing Froslass.

    @ Timid Moltres:

    I played a couple matches with it, and tbqh I don't really know if I should keep it. I really missed the Fire Power that 383 SpA gave me, especially versus threats such as Milotic and Blastoise.

    I'll test it more though.

    EDIT:

    @ Maris:

    I don't really follow what you're saying. Why would I use Pursuit on a wall breaker / sweeper over its main STAB move? How is Absol just going to die from Life Orb when Mismagius flees? If Mismagius flees I will get a Swords Dance and KO something. Why would I switch to Claydol over Donphan and hit Ghosts less hard, while actually losing to them rather than 2HKO / OHKO most Ghosts?
  11. iliketurkeybacon

    iliketurkeybacon

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    Like everyone said, great team :) I think you should go with Timid Moltres, just from my experience beating this team with Moltres due to it outrunning yours and getting lucky with Air Slash. Also, with Venusaur gone at the beginning of the game and Stealth Rock up, SubPunch Azumarill (really just its Waterfall) gave problems to pretty much the whole team. Facing only one of those two Pokemon would probably be manageable though, your team looks really solid against nearly everything, obviously Timid Moltres would help in mirror matches and against Porygon-Z, but I get how Modest lets it take on walls much better so that's a tough choice you have to make ;)
  12. Maris

    Maris

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    the point is not that absol will die from LO right away but quickly die and then your primary way to beat spin blockers is gone with pursuit absol is better at supporting a overall sweep with moltres and the like.. Also Spike stacking teams will make donphan take 25% per swich in making spinning more annoying. Im guessing if donphan is unable to provide spin support on your team you can deal with it as moltres has roost and swellow will rarely swich out late game.

    Claydol is more of a supporter than donphan is. While donphan Does support you it isnt as reliable but it does more damage. So for your playstyle Donphan>claydol for a bit more offensive OMPH.
  13. Heysup

    Heysup CANadian not a CANTnadian
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    I don't really want to sound like an asshole in my RMT, but your post still doesn't make much sense.

    Absol, if Mismagius switches out, will be able to set up a Swords Dance and easily punch holes in, if not sweep the opponents team. Additionally, Spikes will essentially never be set up on my team.

    How does Pursuit help a Moltres sweep? The only logical explanation for this is: it helps because it removes the Ghosts so that Donphan (who can 1-2HKO every ghost, by the way) can have an easier time spinning so that Moltres doesn't come in with 50%. That's a stretch to even be considered a "reason" but anyway. Firstly, Pursuit won't beat a lot of Ghosts, especially the bulky ones who will stay in and burn me / hit me as hard as they can before fainting. Secondly, as I stated before, Absol can use this opportunity to set up Swords Dance and sweep, which is much less likely without Night Slash.

    I also find it odd that you imply Donphan is unreliable, because the opposite is the reason I use Donphan over Claydol / Hitmontop in the first place. Donphan is one of the only spinners (it and Blastoise) who doesn't lose to every Ghost in the game. That seems much more reliable than Claydol, pretty much in every way (being weak to Ghost + Ice doesn't help, as well as its pathetically low attacking stats).

    Anyway, thanks for the suggestions, but I don't think I'll add any of them.

    @ Timid Moltres (again):

    I can't decide which I prefer. I mean, Modest helps me break walls and sweep much more effectively, however Timid gives me the ability to outpace many important foes. I'm leaning towards keeping Modest, as I have Swellow + Venusaur + Priority to revenge kill for me...Modest really helps versus Pokemon such as Milotic, Azumarill, Chansey, Cresselia, and sandstorm. Still not 100% sure.

    Keep the rates coming!
  14. Tangrowth KicksAss

    Tangrowth KicksAss

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    Its a solid team but if a feraligatr gets a DD when venusaur is dead you're screwed.
  15. Pombo

    Pombo

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    What about Sucker Punch?
  16. Rolf

    Rolf

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    And swellow outspeeds most variants even ater a DD.
  17. Lemmiwinks MkII

    Lemmiwinks MkII

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    Fixed. But where is the setup coming from other than say Venusaur itself locked on Earthquake? The only way 'Gatr gets a clean setup and sweep is if it comes in after an Earthquake from Venusaur who is in range of entry hazards and +2 Aqua Jet. Possible, but situational. Everything else can at worst be sacrificed to stop Feraligatr from setting up.

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