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DPP OU Team Kevin, Please Come Home

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Kevin Garrett, Aug 8, 2009.

  1. Kevin Garrett

    Kevin Garrett is a competitor
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 12 Championis a SPL Winner

    Joined:
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    Team Kevin, Please Come Home

    [​IMG]

    Written by: august and Kevin Garrett

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Intro:

    The main idea of this team is to stack layers of entry hazards in order to make a clean sweep. Smeargle is an ideal choice for this role because it matches up well with several common leads and has access to all the moves necessary for it to be effective. It's also able to maintain a fast tempo that couldn't be achieved with other common Spike users, bar Roserade. Surrounding Smeargle is a team of the strongest sweepers in the metagame coupled with good typing for optimal synergy. Every type is resisted twice, except for Rock and Flying.

    Another reason for this team's success is its ability to perform well against basically every type of playstyle out there if used correctly. Rain teams may look like they could be damaging to a team of sweepers, but once the rain stops falling, Salamence and Lucario rip through the entire team. Balanced teams can be easy or challenging depending upon the pace that's set in the game. Through working Smeargle smartly, the user of this team can choose to set the pace at any speed they want. The only time this team is in major trouble is when the user fails to control the game.

    When the team was new, it would be able to work its way out of any match. It performs especially well against stall teams, which led me to great success in Season 8 of the Smogon Tour. It totaled a massive 20 points in OU. Both august and I laddered the team to cruise to a CRE over 1650 at the peak of its dominance. The name comes from a combination of my account and august's alias, please come home. Now that the team has been exposed and there are many other Smeargle leads out there, it has grown less effective due to the increase in leads that beat it.

    Closer Look:

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    Smeargle @ Focus Sash *** I Believe
    Ability: Own Tempo
    EVs: 96 HP / 120 Def / 40 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpA)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Spikes
    - Spore
    - Taunt

    Smeargle is one of the best leads in the current metagame. It's the fastest user of Spore without Choice Scarf, which makes it largely successful as a Spiker against slower leads. Bronzong, Hippowdon, and Swampert are all at a major disadvantage against Smeargle. Stall teams struggle because they can't outspeed Smeargle, which ensures that I'll at least get Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes down. It's expected to get most or all of the entry hazards down against stall.

    Faster leads don't spell the death of Smeargle because it's easy to switch out and come back in to Spike later. The only drawback of waiting to set up is that it will likely lose its Focus Sash. Rotom-H helps cover Taunt leads, like Aerodactyl and Azelf, as it can come in and activate their Focus Sash while they Stealth Rock. Scizor can come in on lead Jirachi to take Iron Head. If they Stealth Rock or Trick, Scizor can U-turn out and take a chunk of damage out of something. The biggest problem Smeargle faces is Lum Berry Metagross. Since most of them run Occa Berry, Smeargle usually stays in on Metagross. If it has Lum Berry and I don't switch out, the chances of getting anything up is low.

    Spike stacking is the foundation this team is built on. For an offensive team, Smeargle is the best one to take on this role because it is quick and can easily find a time to come in and plant an additional layer of Spikes. When this is done carefully, any of the five sweepers will be able to tear through teams. The type coverage each of them brings to the table force switches. It is not uncommon for Rotom-H or Latias to finish a Blissey off after being sent in to Spikes a few times. The same can be said for Lucario against things like Zapdos or Gyarados.

    Taunt is a unique move that is rarely seen on Smeargle. It's most commonly used for blocking slower Stealth Rock users from laying it down. Salamence can function a lot better as an attacker and defender without taking 25% damage upon switching in. Taunt also prevents Sleep Talking. It's common to see my opponent's switch in Rotom-A, Suicune, Machamp, Gyarados, etc. to absorb sleep. I am guaranteed Smeargle will have more of a lasting effect on the game if I don't take a huge chunk of damage from Sleep Talk Thunderbolt. Taunt is also able to prevent recovery and status inflicting moves from opposing team supporters or walls. Lastly, it stops stat-upers from completely killing me. It works well against Ninjask too. I have enough time to Stealth Rock afterwards and switch out to Scizor to threaten Bullet Punch.

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    Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf *** Blanket Of Ghosts
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball
    - Overheat
    - Trick / Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Ice

    What good is a spike stacking team without an anti-spinner? Rotom-H fills the role of anti-spinning amazingly well and has in my opinion easily earned the MVP role. Being able to easily switch in on just about every Rapid Spinner is invaluable against stall, especially teams that run two spinners. Thunderbolt OHKOs Starmie with Stealth Rock or one layer of Spikes down, whereas Forretress is easily OHKO'd by Overheat.

    While 252 HP may seem a little odd on a Scarfed Rotom-H, it really helps to take hits much better. Rotom-H can now actually take Fire Blasts, Dragon Claws, and Surfs much more feasibly and with Spikes almost always on the opposing filed (there are very few times I have not gotten Spikes down), Rotom-H doesn't need that much offensive power. Trick or Hidden Power is something we are never quite sure of. Tricking off the Scarf against powerful Dark or Ghost attacks, like Tyranitar, allows Lucario and Scizor both a free turn, which Lucario can easily use to set up or Scizor can use to throw off a U-turn to weaken the opposing core even more.

    Rotom-H also acts as my insurance blanket against Gyarados, Mamoswine, +2 Lucario and other physical threats. Thanks to 252 HP, Rotom-H can now come in to Bulky Gyarados' Waterfalls much easier than it could with 4 HP and Lucario's Crunch no longer OHKOs so I can play Rotom-H a little more recklessly than previously. Rotom-H usually comes in on Swords Dance or an attack it is immune to. The ever so dangerous Mamoswine cannot muster a 2HKO on Rotom-H either while the return Overheat will OHKO the prehistoric beast. Rotom-H also provides a Pursuit weakness, which is something I generally do not like on a team. However, with Scizor and Lucario making great use of free turns with U-turn and Swords Dance, respectively. The most common Pursuits are Choice Band Scizor and Choice Band Tyranitar, 2 Pokemon that are more of a liability against this team than they are a problem.

    On any other team I'd probably have chosen Rest Talk Rotom-H over Choice Scarf. However, once my opponent finds out Rotom-H is a choiced variant they will have to predict my attacks, which generally means switching. Switching will cause residual damage to build up which will allow for a late game sweep from just about anything on the team barring Smeargle.

    Hidden Power Ice was used for a while to hit threats like Salamence who could hassle the team greatly. After a while, I found that Hidden Power Ice was not performing well as we had trouble directly bringing Rotom-H in to Salamence and decided that Trick would be better to aid Lucario and Scizor in setting up. Hidden Power Ground was on the very first draft of the team. While using Scarf Rotom-H on various other teams I always found that the most common switch in besides Blissey, Snorlax, and Tyranitar was Heatran, which would take a huge chunk from Hidden Power Ground. Hidden Power Ground ended up simply giving too many free turns to Dragon Dance Salamence and Choice Scarf Flygon and other Pokemon that were already causing a headache when trying to deal with them.

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    Salamence @ Life Orb *** Consider The Ravens
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 16 Atk / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive nature (+Spe, -SpD)
    - Earthquake
    - Draco Meteor
    - Outrage
    - Flamethrower

    Salamence is the type of Pokemon who you can never be too sure of. Salamence has a plethora of sets that fill different roles, and each set has different counters. For example, Blissey can wall Choice Specs Salamence, but has no chance against Choice Band Salamence and vice versa with Pokemon like Skarmory. Because of this Salamence always has the opponent on the tips of their toes. Salamence can feign sets like Choice Band / Specs / Dragon Dance thanks to no leftovers recovery and cause switches which rack up passive damage on the opponent. Salamence is also immune to common Choiced Earthquakes which is a huge help in some situations.

    The reason Mixed Salamence was chosen over any other type of Salamence is its ability to do immediate damage against the opposing team. Causing pain for switch ins with a Life Orb Draco Meteor is a great way to weaken the opposing core. Outrage also provides an unparalelled late game sweeping tool which comes off an incredible 135 base attack stat. Flamethrower and Earthquake round out the moveset thanks to the ability hit different types of steels. For example, Earthquake to hit Heatran and Flamethrower to hit Forretress and Skarmory.

    Salamence's Intimidate ability can also prove useful when menacing late game Lucario / Scizor think they can run through my weakened team. Salamence provides a rather solid Fighting-type resist as well as 90 / 80 Def, which is nothing to laugh at when coupled with Intimidate. Salamence / Rotom-H / Latias form a solid defensive core that can keep up tempo, something most offensive teams struggle with. Rotom-H helps to stop threats like Choice Band Scizor or Swords Dance Lucario from running through me with ease, whereas Latias can come in on the majority of bulky waters with ease. Salamence's role is sometimes harder due to it's Stealth Rock weakness but no matter what Salamence will play an important role in the match, whether it be killing off half of the opposing team or simply intimidating a physical threat when needed.

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    Latias @ Life Orb *** Blood & Wine
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Recover
    - Surf
    - Draco Meteor

    Latias is a versatile Pokemon on this team because it can inflict massive damage on the opposition and supply many needed resistances. It has wonderful synergy with Scizor and Lucario because they cover each other's weaknesses. She covers Electric attacks very well with easy recovery, whereas Rotom-H has to worry about collecting too much damage. Latias always causes a lot of switches and her mere presence attracts Pursuiters to come in. The beauty of Latias on a spike stacking team is that all Pursuiters are normally 2HKO'd by Surf after having a date with stealth Rock and Spikes. This allows her to see a lot more action over the course of the game and ultimately be more effective.

    Calm Mind doesn't really have a place on Latias in this team because of its fast paced nature. Thunderbolt offers more covered a slim chance of paralyzing the opponent. The paralysis only has merit when Latias is stalling out something like Zapdos. With an increase in SpD Skarmory's, Thunderbolt is like an ace in the hole. They'll switch in to Surf and take only a modest amount of damage, think it's safe to Roost, and be taken out. It also takes the pressure off Draco Meteor against things that don't need that much firepower. Having two Pokemon that can use Thunderbolt also eliminates Suicune as a major threat to the team. It's also nice to surprise a stray Gyarados.

    Vaporeon has trouble keeping up with Latias thanks to Thunderbolt. Wish only recovers most of the damage. If it stays in to PP stall Latias out, a critical hit or paralysis are inevitable. Latias specializes in weakening or scaring away things that threaten to wall the physical sweepers on this team. Zapdos and Gliscor have difficulty against her. The worst thing Zapdos can do to Latias is paralyze it, but faces being paralysed itself by Thunderbolt if it stays in. Latias can take out Def Zapdos from around three quarters of its health. After coming in to Stealth Rock, it is within range for Latias to kill.

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    Lucario @ Life Orb *** Weary Saints
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Close Combat
    - Crunch
    - Extremespeed
    - Swords Dance

    Once Lucario is revealed it is generally the beginning of the end. Once the hazards are laid and the stage is set the game is as good as over. A Swords Dance boosted Close Combat easily OHKOs Hippowdon with Spikes support and Stealth Rock weakens Gyarados and Zapdos, two other premiere Lucario checks. What makes Lucario so great on this team is the number of free turns it can get by thinking ahead. Latias and Rotom-H are commonly Pursuited, which gives Lucario an easy boost. Salamence's Rock- and Ice-type weaknesses can also give Lucario a free Swords Dance as well. Salamence and Latias are also constantly attracting Choice Scarf Flygon, who has a weak Outrage that Lucario can use to get +2.

    Lucario has solid synergy with Latias as well as Salamence. Both Latias and Salamence can take ground attacks aimed at Lucario. Latias is the general weapon of choice to take Fire attacks from the likes of Choice Scarf Heatran thanks to its 130 Base Special Defense stat. Physical Fighting attacks like Close Combat tend to go to Salamence, which softens the blow with Intimidate. Most common Lucario checks are sponged by Pokemon on the team. Here are some examples:

    Scarf Heatran: Latias
    Scarf / Mix Jirachi: Rotom-H
    Scarf Rotom-A: Thunderbolt / Overheat go to Latias, if it Shadow Balls Scizor has an easy Pursuit.

    Lucario is not the centerpiece of the team, although it may seem it. This team more focuses around any of the five Spike Stack abusers getting a sweep. Lucario is arguably the best at getting a sweep late game, but without the support of the team, Lucario cannot accomplish this. While Lucario is generally the last pokemon shown, I am not afraid to bring it out early game to begin firing off 350 Attack Life Orb Close Combats to weaken the opposition for late game where literally anything on the team can rear its head and come out for a sweep. For example, if I do not get to lay spikes against a team with Hippowdon, I will not hesitate to SD Close Combat Hippowdon to bring it into range of U-turn.

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    Scizor @ Choice Band *** Pistol
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit

    Scizor, the mindless U-turning spammer, finds its way into this team, much like it finds itself on many other teams since Platinum's release. Scizor is a secondary check against fragile offensive Pokemon such as Weavile thanks to its Technician and Choice Band boosted Bullet Punch. Scizor acts as a safety blanket against Dragon Dance Salamence as well should it manage to set up amidst the sea of attacks. Infact, Scizor is like a 4th part of the defensive core this team boasts, except instead of checking offensive Pokemon, Scizor tends to check defensive Pokemon. Scizor is the main switch into Thunder Wave Blissey since it can easily U-turn out or OHKO with Superpower. Scizor is also the primary check against Cresselia since U-turn does quite a bit of damage. Defensive Calm Mind Latias is another Pokemon Scizor can easily counter thanks to it's Dragon-type resistance and decent SpD stat.

    After Smeargle and Rotom-H were added to the team, Scizor was my obvious third choice. Scizor's mere presence is enough to force switches, not to mention that U-turn is a ridiculous move on a team like this because it allows me to attack relentlessly and get matchups that force even more switches. Pursuit is hardly ever used on this set because most of the time I would rather U-turn to keep tempo in my favor than lock myself into a weak move that allows the opposition to set up on me. The only time I ever consider using Pursuit is against Choice Scarf Gengar and Scarf Rotom-A because they can easily stop Lucario and occasionally Salamence and Latias from sweeping. Superpower gives me a weapon to hit the omnipresent Magnezone and Heatran that just love switching into Scizor to threaten an OHKO.

    Scizor's only immediate weakness is covered nicely by Latias' resistance and base 130 SpD stat. One of the main fears of using Choice Band Scizor is the fact that Lucario can easily set up and proceed to sweep. Thanks to Rotom-H and Salamence, Lucario cannot feasibly sweep my team unless Salamence is very weakened and Rotom-H gets hit on the switch in with Crunch. Perhaps the greatest asset of Scizor on this team is the number of resistances it has, particularly choiced attacks. Scizor has a resistance to Choice Tyranitar's Crunch and Pursuit, Rotom-A's and Gengar's Shadow Ball, opposing Scizor's Pursuit and Bullet Punch, and most notably the Dragon-type resist. Most Pokemon locked into these not very effective moves will flee to a Scizor counter, which Scizor will U-turn from. Most common Scizor counters, like Gyarados or Zapdos are covered by other members of the team.

    Scizor and Lucario in particular are countered by similar Pokemon. It helps that most checks are Stealth Rock weak as well (Gyarados and Zapdos), meaning they are taking 25% from each switch in. By keeping pressure on them with Latias and Salamence, I can prevent Zapdos from Roosting and Gyarados from Resting so Scizor and Lucario can take them out late game. A downside about the offensive duo is that both have a Fire-type weakness. Since they are both Steel-types, it can be annoying because that means both of them are trapped by Magnezone, something I do not enjoy in an offensive combination. Nonetheless, Magnezone can't do much to Rotom-H, but by the time I can bring Rotom-H in I have lost one of my valuable offensive attackers.

    Conclusion:

    Overall this has been an extremely fun team to use in it's day. In the current metagame, this team does not perform nearly as well as it used to. August used this team in the 1st round of World Cup of Pokemon to acheive his 3-0 record and I used it to win the 2nd round match against Kinneas. It goes without saying that this team has a few problems. Teams that carry a lot of Scarfed Pokemon (mostly Magnezone and Salamence) give this team a load of trouble, especially when combined with something to Pursuit Latias, who is the glue that holds me together against teams with many special attackers. Glass cannon offense can have its way with this team if I cannot keep Rotom-H alive for as long as possible. On the brightside, if this team is played correctly it has the potential to beat all opposing playstyles, which is not something I can say about other teams.

    Defensive Threats:

    [​IMG] Blissey - Scizor is usually the first switch in. It can U-turn out or Superpower. Lucario is better kept for revenge killing or variants that show Toxic and Seismic Toss. Rotom-H can Trick Choice Scarf to make it virtually useless. Salamence can use physical attacks to take it down, but that's more of a last resort unless it's convenient. Smeargle can Taunt it from using Support moves. Latias can only take it down if it's suffered consecutive damages from Spikes.

    [​IMG] Bronzong - Rotom-H is a perfect counter for Bronzong. Scizor can U-turn out for a big chunk of damage. Salamence and Lucario can finish it off with Flamethower and Close Combat, respectively.

    [​IMG] Celebi - Scizor can switch in to take Thunder Wave or Grass Knot and live Hidden Power Fire to U-turn. Rotom-H can cripple it with Shadow Ball or Overheat. Salamence and Latias can take it out with most of its health with Draco Meteor. Lucario can revenge kill with Crunch if its health is below half for defensive variants.

    [​IMG] Cresselia - Scizor can switch it to U-turn. Pursuit can be used in certain situations. Rotom-H can Shadow Ball or Trick Choice Scarf. Latias and Lucario can revenge kill Cresselia when its weaker with Draco Meteor and Crunch, respectively.

    [​IMG] Donphan - Rotom-H is a great counter. It has several options against Donphan. Latias sends it packing with Surf. Salamence is not ideal, but can take it out with Draco Meteor. Scizor can U-turn, but it won't do anything life threatening unless Donphan is weakened.

    [​IMG] Dusknoir - Rotom-H does not take much from Shadow Sneak. It can Shadow Ball. Smeargle can put it to sleep with Spore and set up Spikes. Salamence and Latias can launch off Draco Meteors. Lucario can revenge kill with Crunch if Dusknois is low on health.

    [​IMG] Forretress - Rotom-H can come in on its Rapid Spin and Trick the Scarf or Overheat depending on the situation. Salamence can OHKO Forretress with Flamethrower. Lucario can set up on it late game.

    [​IMG] Gliscor - Latias can switch into an Earthquake and Surf Gliscor for big damage. Rotom-H can Trick the Scarf or Shadow Ball for an eventual SpD drop. Salamence can do a number on it with Draco Meteor.

    [​IMG] Gyarados - Defensive Gyarados gives an easy switch into Latias who can OHKO with Thunderbolt. Salamence can do massive damage with Draco Meteor. Smeargle can Spore it and set up Spikes. Rotom-H is always an option as well.

    [​IMG] Hippowdon - Hippowdon is generally a lead, which means Smeargle can Spore and subsequently set up entry hazards. Latias can switch in and Surf it and Rotom-H can Trick the Scarf. Salamence can take it down with Draco Meteor providing Hippowdon has suffered some prior damage.

    [​IMG] Jirachi - Defensive Jirachi is tricky, especially Thunder Wave / Body Slam variants. Rotom-H can Trick and the team can pound away from there. Scizor can come in and U-turn or Pursuit after being Tricked. Scarf Jirachi can be handled between Rotom-H, Salamence, and Scizor. Calm Mind variants fear Salamence's Earthquake and Scizor's U-turn.
    [​IMG] Rotom-A - Will-O-Wisp / Thunderbolt sets are handled by Latias. Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt can be Pursuited by Scizor. Swords Dance Lucario can OHKO with Crunch. Both Salamence's and Latias' Draco Meteor do a lot of damage to Rotom-A. Other Scarf Rotom-A can be troublesome if they predict all their moves correctly; however, the type coverage of the team typically ensures that it isn't an issue.

    [​IMG] Skarmory - Rotom-H can come in on anything and Thunderbolt or Overheat, depending upon the situation. Salamence and Latias can get a surprise OHKO with Flamethrower and Thunderbolt, respectively. Swords Dance Lucario can OHKO with Close Combat.

    [​IMG] Snorlax - Rotom-H can Trick Choice Scarf on to Snorlax. The key to beating Curselax is waiting for it to Rest, then I can bring in Lucario and Swords Dance to +4 and OHKO. Scizor can switch into anything, bar Fire Punch, and Superpower. Smeargle can put it to sleep with Spore and Taunt.

    [​IMG] Suicune - Suicune doesn't have many places to switch in. Rotom-H can Trick Choice Scarf if all else fails. Thunderbolt can also does a nice amount of damage. Latias can spam Thunderbolt on Crocune and Recover when necessary. Salamence can do a lot of damage with Draco Meteor if Suicune hasn't used Calm Mind.

    [​IMG] Swampert - Lead Swampert is easily taken care of by Smeargle, who can Spore it and set up entry hazards. Salamence and Latias Draco Meteor do massive damage. Cursepert can be tough, but it has trouble setting up because there are limited spots to switch in and entry hazards keep it from being able to live more than two turns after a Curse.

    [​IMG] Tentacruel - Tentacruel doesn't have any places to freely switch in at. Everything is either physical or has Thunderbolt. Rotom-H can block Tentacruel's Rapid Spin. The whole team is immune to Toxic Spikes with the exception of Smeargle.

    [​IMG] Tyranitar - Tyranitar is not a big defensive threat to the team. Lucario and Scizor can switch into Cursetar with no risks and threaten Close Combat and Superpower or U-turn, repsectively. SpD Tyranitar isn't much of an issue for anything other than Rotom-H and possibly Latias depending upon what stage in the battle it is.

    [​IMG] Vaporeon - Latias handles Vaporeon very well with Thunderbolt. Vaporeon will never win that stall war alone. Rotom-H is another option for Vaporeon with STAB Thunderbolt. Salamence, Lucario, and Scizor all threaten big damage with physical attacks.

    [​IMG] Zapdos - Just bludgeon away at it. Sub Roost can be annoying, but Zapdos usually only carries one attack. Latias can Surf or Thunderbolt after switching in and then Draco Meteor to either finish Zapdos or assault the switch in. Salamence can do a good chunk of damage with Draco Meteor against Def Zapdos. Zapdos that carry Thunder Wave are particularly annoying because they can Roost back to 100%, leaving attacks like Draco Meteor just shy of a kill. In this case, Rotom-H and Latias are used to absorb Thunder Wave and repeatedly use Thunderbolt to bring Zapdos down to their Spe level.


    Offensive Threats:

    [​IMG] Azelf - Lead variants and mixed variants are handled by Rotom-H. Pure Nasty Plot set is handled by Latias. Rotom-H has the added bonus of an Explosion immunity. Scizor and Lucario can revenge kill it with Bullet Punch and ExtremeSpeed, respectively.

    [​IMG] Breloom - Salamence can Intimidate and OHKO with Flamethrower. Rotom-H is immune to Focus Punch. Latias resists both STAB attacks. Focus Punch can do a big chunk of damage, but Latias OHKOs with Draco Meteor and can Recover later. The only downside is I can lose Smeargle to Scarf Spore early game.

    [​IMG] Dragonite - Dragon Dance variants don't have many places to set up at all. Stealth Rock and a whole team of Life Orb users can threaten Dragonite at any time. Salamence and Latias can revenge kill it without a Spe boost and Scizor can Bullet Punch.

    [​IMG] Dugtrio - Dugtrio isn't a big deal because it can't really kill anything outside of Smeargle.

    [​IMG] Electivire - Salamence waters down its power with Intimidate. Rotom-H doesn't take much damage from any of its attacks. Latias can revenge kill it if it's been weakened. If all else fails, priority can revenge kill it.

    [​IMG] Gallade - Gallade is weak to strong priority attacks from Scizor and Lucario. Salamence scares it away with Intimidate. Rotom-H can do a number on it with STAB, super effective Shadow Ball. Shadow Sneak can potentially do a lot of damage if it's allowed to get an SD in, but that doesn't happen with the speed at which this team is played.

    [​IMG] Gengar - Gengar can be a troublesome threat. With Substitute, Scizor isn't a totally reliable counter because it fears Hidden Power Fire. Without Hidden Power Fire, it is easier to handle, but could cause massive damage if coupled with Magnezone. Rotom-H can outspeed non-Scarf variants to Shadow Ball.

    [​IMG] Gyarados - Rotom-H is a great counter for offensive Gyarados. Thanks to max HP, it can actually switch in to an attack and threaten Thunderbolt. Latias has enough bulk to handle Gyarados and is especially useful against Rest Talk Dragon Dance variant.

    [​IMG] Heatran - Latias can pretty much handle all of the Heatran sets with ease. Scarf Dragon Pulse can be redirected to a Steel-type. Salamence outspeeds non-Scarf variants and OHKOs with Earthquake provided it isn't carrying a Shuca Berry.

    [​IMG] Heracross - Salamence can weaken Heracross with Intimidate and has a nice Fighting- and Bug-type resistance. It can also outpseed non-Scarf variants to Flamethrower. Rotom-H is immune to Fighting-types, which can be can in handy when Stealth Rock is in play. Scizor can revenge kill with Bullet Punch if it's been weakened or has hit with Close Combat.

    [​IMG] Infernape - Latias completely covers Mixed and Nasty Plot Infernape. It takes a good chunk of damage from both Choice Scarf or Choice Band U-turn. Rotom-H can outspeed to hit it with STAB Thunderbolt or Shadow Ball depending upon the situation. Scizor's Bullet Punch does over 40%, which startles some inexperienced players. Lucario's ExtremeSpeed can also do massive damage, but it has to be careful of Mach Punch.

    [​IMG] Jolteon - Jolteon can potentially be real trouble. It can easily wipe out most of the team if expertly played. The best thing I have going against Jolteon is Rotom-H and Jolteon's low Def stat, allowing me to do more damage with Lucario and Scizor. If Spikes are set up, Jolteon isn't a huge problem.

    [​IMG] Latias - Scizor usually handles most Latias sets. If they take out Scizor with Hidden Power Fire, it means my Latias outspeeds it. Rotom-H can Trick or Shadow Ball depending upon the situation. If it's Choiced, then it can easily be Pursuited away by Scizor or late game set up bait for Lucario.

    [​IMG] Kingdra - It can never be a major problem thanks to all of the priority on this team. It also doesn't have many places to switch in. In Rain, Kingdra can be devastating, but this team is easily capable of beating Rain teams. Salamence and Latias can outspeed it providing it hasn't gotten a Spe boost from Dragon Dance or Rain Dance.

    [​IMG] Lucario - Rotom-H is a great check since it can take a hit from Crunch, which is unlikely that it would be used on a switch unless they are trying to KO Rotom-H. Salamence can make it less potent with Intimidate and threatens with Earthquake or Flamethrower. Scizor can Bullet Punch for about the same it can against Infernape.

    [​IMG] Machamp - Careful switching around with Rotom-H and Scizor / Salamence is my only chance of beating Sub Machamp. Rotom-H lives through Payback in a pinch, though. Not too big of a problem at all. Choice Band sets are set up fodder. Salamence, Latias, Lucario, and Scizor can all hit hard for a revenge kill.

    [​IMG] Magnezone - Magnezone is tough to face as it traps Scizor and Lucario and can come in on Salamence's Draco Meteor. Rotom-H is the best switch in to it. I'm inclined to say Sub Psuedo Boltbeam variants are harder to deal with since Rotom's Overheat gets progressively weaker against each use. Salamence, Latias, and Lucario threaten slower Magnezone, though.

    [​IMG] Mamoswine - Rotom-H is a pretty solid check. It can either Shadow ball or Overheat. Lucario's +2 ExtremeSpeed OHKOs with entry hazards and Scizor's Bullet Punch is an excellent check as it OHKOs. Latias can take Ice Shard in a pinch if it isn't holding Choice Band.

    [​IMG] Metagross - Most Metagross are leads and get slept by Smeargle's Spore. Lum Metagross leads are a pain if Smeargle stays in. AgilityGross gets a Scarf from Rotom-H, which generally makes it set up fodder. Bulkier Rotom-H comes in handy in this situation. Salamence can finish it off with Flamethrower or Earthquake. Lucario's Close Combat also does a lot of damage. Scizor doesn't take a lot from certain Metagross and can U-turn out or Superpower.

    [​IMG] Porygon-Z - This thing hits like a nuke, but that's to be expected expected from 135 Base SAtk and an essential 120 base power STAB attack. Scizor's Bullet Punch and Lucario's ExtremeSpeed are taking a huge chunk out. Non-Scarf variants can be picked off easily as everything on the team outspeeds it.

    [​IMG] Salamence - Salamence can be checked by Scizor's Bullet Punch after Stealth Rock damage. MixMence's Brick Break / Fire attack / Earthquake is directed at Latias, which swiftly OHKOs with Draco Meteor. ScarfMence can be troublesome. The best medicine for that is repeated hits from Stealth Rock and priority.

    [​IMG] Scizor - Scizor is tough to switch in to. It essentially needs to Pursuit Latias if it wants to live more than three turns. If it U-turns out, then it can't switch back in to Latias. If it Pursuits Latias, then I have a free turn to set up. Rotom-H does well against Swords Dancers providing it has a sufficient amount of health.

    [​IMG] Starmie - Rotom-H is always my first switch in to Starmie. Thanks to the bulkier spread, Starmie is much easier to switch in to. If Rotom-H is down, then Latias blocks the Rapid Spinner set and Scizor can spam U-turn. If it chooses to Rapid Spin, then it's gone.

    [​IMG] Togekiss - Rotom-H is the penultimate counter to Togekiss. Thunder Wave spamming Togekiss get very annoying, though. I generally Trick my Scarf on Thunder Wave spammers. Latias can handle it well providing it doesn't get paralyzed.

    [​IMG] Tyranitar - Babiri Berry DD Tyranitar requires a special solution, which a little too long to include in a threat list. It is the biggest problem for the team unless every layer of entry hazards are out. Choice Band Tyranitar and Curse Tyranitar give easy switch ins to Lucario and Scizor.

    [​IMG] Weavile - Scizor easily handles all of Weavile's attacks and can choose betwen U-turning out or Bullet Punching. Choice Band Weavile is easy set up fodder for Lucario if it's locked into a resisted attack, especially Pursuit.

    [​IMG] Yanmega - Rotom-H is an excellent counter. It resists all common attacks seen on Yanmega and threatens with Thunderbolt. If all else fails, then priority beats it after Stealth Rock. Rotom-H generally wins easily, though.

    [​IMG] Zapdos - Offensive Zapdos isn't much of a problem at all. Latias always outspeed LO variants to score a quick kill. Lucario can OHKO Zapdos after an SD if Stealth Rock is in play. Sometimes people even tends to use offensive Zapdos as their Lucario / Scizor counter as well. Scarf Zapdos isn't seen much these days. Latias can handle it.
  2. Limitless

    Limitless Success is the best revenge.
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    Having played with this team, I pretty much know the strengths and weaknesses of the team.

    If you area able to at least lay down Stealth Rocks and one layer of Spikes you are guaranteed a good chance of winning. However, if the opponent's lead is faster, and can negate your ability to set the entry hazards down, the team becomes much less effective.

    The main reason I think this team has so much success with entry hazards down is because it has Pokemon to switch on the defensive end, but forces out on the offensive end. On the other hand, when those entry hazards are not out, you can force out all you want, but the opponent can just play around you all the time now.

    I'd give this team a proper rate, but I believe the team has reached its limit. It basically comes down to which lead is faster or can take advantage of Smeargle. For example, Lum Berry Metagross.

    The only suggestion I'd have is to switch Taunt with Endeavor, but you've already expressed you don't like that.
  3. mc2094

    mc2094

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    This is a really nice team and it seems to have a plan to deal with every threat. The only weaknesses would be combinations of two or more pokemon. You said yourself, a pursuiter paired up with a powerful scarfer such as Salamence would cause trouble but there isn't really any way to fix something like that. I would say this team has reached its peak if not very close to it. As for Rotom-h, I would stick with Trick as it will prove useful against stall teams and makes it easier to switch in your sweepers. Excellent job and good luck on any future teams.
  4. Gaborik

    Gaborik

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    This is a fine example of how to lay out a rate my team. The RMT explains the choices and cohesiveness of the team as a whole. The information outlines plans on how to beat stall, balanced, and offensive teams, while going over how you cover the common threats. I was rating some teams today and miss seeing great posts like this.

    I've seen this team in action and don't have anything to add to it. The team looks good on paper, but it was always executed extremely well on your part.
  5. Kevin Garrett

    Kevin Garrett is a competitor
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    Trick was used on the latest version. The only reason why I listed the other moves is to show how it got there.
  6. KnightoftheWind

    KnightoftheWind
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    Awesome team guys! Since this is a team based around entry hazards, have you considered Roserade for Toxic Spikes? Of course, there's the matter of finding out who to exchange for Roserade. So, there isn't much need to change the team that much.
  7. Kevin Garrett

    Kevin Garrett is a competitor
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    We might have considered Toxic Spikes in the early stages of building, but we ultimately decided to stay with just SR and Spikes. The team would benefit the least from Toxic Spikes because it requires time to build up damage. Since it's a fast paced team, it's more important to have something switch in to take immediate damage to make them easier to KO.
  8. chenman333

    chenman333

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    Obviously a sweet team. I had one 5/6 the exact same as this one (great minds think alike haha), though I did not use smeargle/spike stacking (maybe why it is not as good...).

    But one combo is pretty annoying for this team and that is Magnezone+DDMence. Salamence outspeeds everything after a DD but the primary issue is that both your steels are the priority users, and a Scarf Magnezone kills both of them off. Once they are gone, Salamence wipes the floor.

    I found a very reasonable solution was to take the Scarf off Rotom and give it to Latias, and make Rotom use Substitute to bait Scizor/Tyranitar, whom you would hit with Thunderbolts and HP Fighting (2hko scizor, 3hko Tyranitar). However, you have spikes up, so it is probably a 2hko for both (I had to resort to an expert belt to get my 2HKO on T-Tar), which eases pressure off using Scarf Latias. Also a nice lure for Heatran, whom you hurt very badly with your first T-Bolt, and with enough spikes up, an extreme speed from Lucario can probably kill. Also might lure in opposing Rotoms and hit them hard with Shadow Ball! Yeah, it goes really well with SD Lucario. It is a monster against stall, as Blissey w/o flamethrower/ice beam/tbolt cannot touch you at all, and you can easily predict when the ice beams/flamethrowers are coming. Most of the rest of the pokemon are stall team cannot really touch you, and Swampert will be reluctant if you choose the Cutter version. And it is another good switch against Magnezone, and hurts it badly with HP Fighting.

    Latias with Scarf is a menace and absolutely checks just about anything bar Lucario if it isn't healthy, and IMO Salamence and Rotom do more than enough to cover them. Scarf Latias solves your Babiri problems since a Bullet Punch+Surf/Draco Meteor is just about guaranteed to kill him off, it can take Adamant Gyarados even after 2 DDs, revenges all Salamence/Flygon/Latias, and can trick to screw up stall teams.

    Just some ideas.
  9. august

    august free the robots
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    Well Latias is basically the glue of the team, without Recover I can't take repeated Fire Blasts from Heatran (and ScarfTran becomes a bigger issue) and MixApe now becomes an issue, and in general without Recover I don't have any defensive capabilities with Latias. Essentially scarfing Latias would weaken my defensive core of Rotom/Mence/Latias. Plus LO Draco Meteor is soo good.
  10. X-Trader

    X-Trader

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    I only have one question. While laddering, did you two ever face each other? If so what did you notice about your own team while you were facing, and ultimately who won?

    I also really like "double dragon" strategy of this team. You guys had a goal and you guys fulfilled it. After I play with this team a little, I will come back with more insight.
  11. keelhauled

    keelhauled

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    I can see problems arising if the opponent manages to shut down Smeargle from the start, and manages to Pursuit Latias early on, through CBlax, or bulky CBtar. Mixape would almost definitely be able to give you grief without Latias available, as rotom can't switch in to repeated Flamethrowers, not to mention it can be dealt with by the same Lax/Tar that may have killed off Latias. But since Mixape can hit relatively Big damage on 5/6ths of your team, it is definitely worthwhile investing in something to deal with him once Latias is dealt with, although I can't think of who could be replaced, without interrupting the offensive balance.
  12. Kevin Garrett

    Kevin Garrett is a competitor
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    That's a very situational theory to have and isn't likely when you use the team properly. Leads that shut down Smeagle don't shut it down because you switch out. As for Infernape, if that situation were to arise, then Scarf Rotom or priority moves would be able to take it out.
  13. Haunter

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    This is a very solid team guys, apparently the only evident problem is babiri DD TTar which, anyway, can be stopped by sacrificing a Pokémon and then tricking Rotom's scarf onto it. Another potential issue are strong pursuiters like CB TTar and Scizor: although losing either Latias or Rotom to a choiced pursuit means free set-up for Lucario, losing Rotom early in the match would open this team to several weaknesses, read DD Gyara, SD Lucario (especially if jolly) and Scizor and agility Empoleon (by the way, I'd like to see Empoleon in your threat list, because it looks like a troublesome pokemon for this team, with only Rotom capable of revenge killing it).

    Regarding Latias: have you ever thought of using dragon pulse over draco meteor? Obviously you'd lose some power on the first hit, but in my experience with life orb Latias, it's often a good deal because it makes her less vulnerable to Scizor's pursuits (which, as you stated, can be 2hko'd by a full power surf after SR and spikes damage). Dragon pulse always still 2hkos Zapdos after SR, and Celebi after SR and spikes, and ohkos every other dragon in the game.

    Other than that, this is an excellent RMT, and deserves five stars.
  14. chenman333

    chenman333

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    As good as that Defensive core is, I think the primary problem is that Rotom is easily wiped out by Pursuit, which is really quite a loss. Especially if Rotom needs to come in early to take out Azelf, you can potentially lose him fairly quickly. Latias isn't so easily Pursuited thanks to its power+spikes, but it still can be eliminated.

    I always found Rotom coming out earlier than Latias since Latias needs to 2hko most pokemon, and as Haunter said, losing Rotom makes the team vulnerable to threats. Rotom does a fine job at luring in Scizor/T-Tar, and with your spikes, you can 2hko them both, and Latias survivability will be higher than if it has Roost IMO, and Rotom's lifespan will certainly increase. Scarf Latias helps to revenge everything that can potentially give you trouble, even if you do lose that cool LO Draco Meteor.

    ^^^ As for Empoleon, with two priority attacks in Extreme Speed and Bullet Punch, i'm pretty sure it an be eliminated. Scizor does 14% minimum, Lucario does 15% minimum, meaning that it loses. Though again, Magnezone can easily take one of them out which makes your job that much harder, and Latias still outspeeds after a Agility if it uses Scarf.
  15. Staraptor Call

    Staraptor Call

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    This definitely has what I want to see in more RMTs these days. Creative sets (Smeargle and Latias), a creative strategy (offense with Spikes) and good team synergy (too many different things to list).

    I have used a similar Smeargle lead in the past (With Spore and Stealth Rock, but with Endeavor and Protect in the last two slots). Endeavor was to bring down the HP of a slower opponent after losing the Focus Sash, and Protect was to block Fake Out. The Smeargle I used was successful except against Taunters, Substituters and Lum Berry leads. However, those are more common than they used to be, so I don't use Smeargle on my main team anymore.

    This team should go into the RMT Archive.
  16. august

    august free the robots
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    Thank you very much good sir.

    @Chenmann: if they Pursuit Rotom early game I can just easily spam Draco Meteor / U turn / Close Combat to weaken the opposition.

    also @Sikh: me and Kevin never played each other but me and Limitless played and it all came down to 1 turn basically. I have been facing this team quite a bit on ladder recently though ~_~

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