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Team Punishment

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by djtoxic, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. djtoxic


    Feb 12, 2010
    Hello Smogon, this is my 4th RMT in here, and I've come here looking for some help (as the last 3 times).


    5th gen hit me hard after I realized my Drizzle team had to go, so I've been building several teams with medium to poor perfomance. And this is one that has given me quite decent results.... but no team is perfect and this one sure ain't the exception. So... let's get to the point, shall we?

    Team at a Glance:


    In depth:

    Heatran (F) @ Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Heatran is the "normal" lead, that is, where there are no taunters, or the lead is probably something I can take care of, like the usual Swampert who finds walling Heatrans funny, well, they'll be a little bit surprised. He was originally chosen because it's bulky enough to take a couple of non-SE hits, balloon helps getting the SR up, has decent coverage, and that fire blast coming off of a modest nature, hurts.

    Cloyster (M) @ White Herb
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Shell Smash
    - Icicle Spear
    - Shell Blade
    - Rock Blast

    One of the things I learned from this generation, was that with so many Gliscors, Garchomps, Landlos, Specs Latios, Moxie Mences, the powerhouse that Ononokusu is, and why not, Dragonites enjoying their new abiliy, ice is a nice bet. While I was building my previous fail-teams I found some neat pokes I would never have considered before (mostly because they were buffed in 5th gen), and one of them was Cloyster. With its buffed Icicle Spear, its ability Skill Link, the incredible Shell Smash, and an awesome physical defense, I knew what I had to do. So that was the pillar of this team. The set is pretty straightforward. The moveset is the best SS Cloyster can get, and I got the EV spread from its 5th generation analysis in smogon, and it certainly works. And White Herb is there because Focus Sash with weather everywhere isn't very wise, and Life Orb is a bit overkill most of the time, while WH will allow me to set-up on a lot of physical sweepers without complications.
    There aren't many things that can seriously hurt this vagi...pokémon, but one of them certainly are mach punchers that come in after my 2nd Shell Smash (normally, a gg situation for the opponent), due to White Herb only working the first time. After that, I guess something like Scarftran or Scarf Shanderaa (both not common) or any other decent scarf special all-out attacker, but since I have decent coverage with my other pokes, and since this is mostly being brought out mid/late-game (where revenge killers most likely have showed up already), not a serious problem.

    Garchomp (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sand Veil
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Fang

    Garchomp. EdgeQuake. Outrage. Fire Fang for coverage. Choice Scarf. Yes, no explanation needed.

    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Flying]

    This is a quite simple CMCune set, CM/Surf/Ice Beam is there for mostly obvious reasons, and HP Flying is there because since cune can take nice hits due to him being "wally" even without investments, he can take out those nasty fighting pokes, and OHKO things like breloom and birijion, which would normally set-up on cune (specially CM Birijion).

    Latias (F) @ Light Clay
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Wish
    - Light Screen
    - Reflect

    Latias is there to support the team, although some times it ends up being set-up fodder... Since I haven't found wish that useful in the past, I'd like some suggestions, maybe Roar or even CM so they don't set-up on me while at the same time I rack up some SR damage, or attempt to sweep (with poor coverage but meh), but I'm not sure, so feel free to suggest :D.

    Murkrow (M) @ Evolution Stone
    Trait: Mischievous Heart
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    IVs: 0 Atk / 1 Spd
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Taunt
    - Roost
    - FeatherDance
    - Toxic

    Oh nice Murkrow is nice. Many people have ragequitted over this, since it's so annoying. Most of the times it dies it's because of crits, because it's so good at stalling it gets the job done most of the time. He's able to come into many threats, FeatherDance with priority, roost or taunt, toxic and then stall like the pro he is. I'm so proud of this guy I'm gonna go and say that any stall/bulky offense team not capable of countering him, is doomed.

    Final Thoughts:

    Well, for a team made randomly out of succesful single pokémons in fail teams, it turned out quite alright. But I still need some advice about things I may have missed, or things I can do better. So there you go, thanks in advance, again, smogonites <3.
  2. Judas DN

    Judas DN

    Jan 27, 2011
    Hi djtoxic

    You'd be surprised how many good teams start out like this, a decent base that get's tweaked little by little removing all it's weak spots, until you result an excellent team that can face pretty much everything. I'd recommand doing this rather than wasting time building several teams at random, nobody can after all make an excellent team from scratch.

    That being said i'll try my best to push this team in the right direction :pimp:

    It appears that you are searching for a pokemon that can set up on screens is fast, bulky and isn't set up bait at the same time. Perhaps this pokemon may suit that description:

    Deoxys-E@Light Clay
    252HP, 252Def
    Bold Nature
    Light Screen

    Due to this pokemon's extremely high natural Speed it will outspeed nearly any pokemon in the metagame without any investment, allowing you to invest everything into bulkiness to the point it rival's Latias . I don't think Wish is necessary for your team as most of them are set up sweepers you're likely not going to switch out anyway. I'm not sure if you need Screens just once for Cloyster or permanently in which case you have to pick Spikes or Recover respectively. Thanks to Taunt and it's massive speed not much will set up on this guy so easily.

    Swampert is becomming quite uncommon lately and your Cloyster can use it to set himself up. That's why i'd suggest to run HP Ice which is much more usefull nowadays as it would make Heatran an excellent 'check' against dragons. HP Grass just doesn't dent non-ground waters enough to be usefull and Heatran can't stay in against them regardless.

    I also suggest running Modest instead of Timid on Suicune, now that Lucario is uncommon and Heatran's no longer carry explosion there is barely any reason left why you'd ever should run Timid on CM suicune anymore. Modest however may give you a slight boost in power that allows Suicune to sweep more easily.

    And last would HP Fire be better than HP Flying? You already KO most Breloom after one CM with Ice Beam, surf hits fighting types just as hard as HP flying does which only leaves Birijiion. While i agree that thing can be annoying you can still revenge kill it by using Garchomp. Meanwhile your current Suicune is Nattorei set-up bait which spikes and SR can severely dent your team's performance. Do note that Nattorei is the No1 most used pokemon in the game while CM biriijion is just one set of a lesser used pokemon, but it's your call mate.

    Good Luck with the team, if you need any more help feel free to VM me.
  3. djtoxic


    Feb 12, 2010
    Hi Judas DN, hey, thanks for replying!

    Well, I'm afraid Deoxys-S isn't an option, because I participate both in Smogon and in a local community's server where Deo-S is banned.

    Regarding Heatran, I'd need something to take care of waters, not just that particular typing combo, and grass has its niches. Anyway, I feel that Heatran is probably the most replaceable member of the team, since it happens to barely scratch many Specially Defensive "leads" and SR doesn't always land, so... yeah, a replacement would be nice.

    And about Suicune, you are completely right. Modest would help me solve the lack of power that is suicune with 0 to 1 CM, which kinda sucks considering I'm wasting a turn (also, modest would make CM raise SpA a little more). And I've found myself more than a couple of times being set-up fodder to nattorei (although I can pull off a couple of CMs and kill him, but with spikes and rocks all over my place) so HP Fire would be great, good idea ;-).

    I'm gonna update the OP with the suicune changes now and will start testing inmediately. Again, thanks for your reply! <3
  4. djtoxic


    Feb 12, 2010

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