1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Team R.E.D. - Reliable Excavation & Demolition (A TF2-themed OU Offense RMT)

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Seven Deadly Sins, Nov 29, 2009.

  1. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,267
    I've always been a huge fan of Team Fortress, ever since it was originally developed for Quake (and later Half-Life). As such, I was pretty stoked when Team Fortress 2 came out (and was balanced!) and took the online FPS world by storm. Of course, since I'm a fan of themed teams, I decided to make a TF2-themed team just for shits and giggles. When I got to the final permutation, I found that nearly all of my Pokemon were red or at least mostly reddish, and thus, Team RED (Reliable Excavation & Demolition) was born!

    Team RED started out with a simple goal that you might remember from my earlier UU RMT, Danmaku Dreams- by using nothing but powerful physical attackers, it would be possible to simply overwhelm enemy walls and smash through their team before they knew what hit them. Eventually, as the team progressed, I found that the ability to effectively start 6-5 against a full 1/8 of teams (teams using Blissey) was pretty awesome. As such, I present... Team RED!

    Team at a Glance

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Scout


    [​IMG]


    Scout (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Iron Head
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Punch
    - Trick

    "If you order now, I'll throw in a second beatin', absolutely free."

    Scarf Jirachi is the Scout of this team. His main tasks include running around annoying people, inflicting chip damage with Stealth Rock, and bludgeoning fools to death with an aluminum bat (or his head, you never know) and taking their sandwiches. He starts the game off at a neat clip, beating many top leads with 60% certainty (flinch) and still leaving me in a decent position the other 40% of the time.

    Trick now replaces U-turn. I have used U-turn somewhere around 1% of the time on Jirachi, and it rarely helps me. Trick gives me options in certain cases, which I approve of.

    Synergy: Fire attacks go to Tyranitar, Swampert, and sometimes Salamence. Ground attacks go to Breloom or Salamence.

    Engineer

    [​IMG]

    Engineer (Breloom) (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Spore
    - Substitute
    - Focus Punch
    - Seed Bomb

    "You ladies shoulda' oughta' brought some menfolk along with ya."

    Breloom is the Engineer of this team. He sits on his ass, sets up a defensive perimeter, and pounds the shit out of opponents with his setup. He can't do much offensively when under direct attack, but he's still able to pack a punch close up if given a chance. Spore lets Breloom incapacitate an opponent for free, which gives free turns for it or the rest of the team to poke holes in the opposing team.

    I've been contemplating a bulky Breloom variant to deal with opposing Tyranitar, since I'm rather lacking in ways to deal with it. However, this Breloom basically runs straight through unprepared teams without a second thought. It can't be countered outside of Lum Berry, it can't be set up on (even -1 NVE Focus Punch does 32-38% to Mence and Gyara), and it's a terror to teams that don't know what to do. Much like the Engineer.

    Synergy: Fire attacks go to Tyranitar and Salamence. Flying attacks go to Jirachi and Tyranitar. Psychic attacks go to Jirachi and Tyranitar. Ice attacks go to Scizor, Jirachi, and sometimes Tyranitar if it's a weaker ice attack.

    Sniper

    [​IMG]

    Sniper (Scizor) (M) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Def
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - U-turn
    - Quick Attack

    "Wave goodbye to your head, wanker."

    Scizor is my sniper, and what is there really to say about Scizor at this point? It's red, it's beefy, and it picks opponents off one by one without a second thought. Choice Band Scizor is essentially the most versatile offensive glue Pokemon in the tier, being able to revenge opponents like Mixmence and non-Babiri Tyranitar effortlessly. It also just U-turns all over the place, keeping my offensive momentum up as much as possible.

    The only interesting choice here is Quick Attack > Pursuit. Quick Attack allows Scizor to play at picking off weakened Gyarados, and it's strong enough to take a neutral hit from Gyara and survive long enough to take it out with a Quick Attack or two.

    Synergy: Fire attacks go to Tyranitar, Salamence, and Swampert.

    Heavy

    [​IMG]

    Heavy (Tyranitar) (M) @ Babiri Berry
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Rock Slide
    - Fire Punch
    - Dragon Dance

    "What sick man send BABIES to fight me?"

    Tyranitar, the Heavy, is easily the best sweeper I've encountered during my time in OU. While Heavy starts out slow and strong, he becomes an unstoppable killing machine once he gets rolling, and almost nothing can stand in its way. Between its bulk, ability to set up for free on most special attackers in the tier, ability to outspeed base 115+ and lower (Azelf, Starmie, Latias, etc), and massive power, Tyranitar has no issues sweeping straight through most offensive teams.

    For its item, this Heavy's packing the item that most real TF2 heavies simply WISH they could equip. Babiri Berry acts as a proverbial helmet for this Heavy, protecting it from all those angry Bullet Punches flying around in the tier. With a Babiri Berry cut, Scizor deals only ~50% with a CB Adamant Bullet Punch, and is responded to with overwhelming force from Fire Punch.

    Rock Slide > Stone Edge is an interesting choice, and it's one that I make for a couple reasons. First, it makes Tyranitar less susceptible to being stalled by Pressure Pokemon, since there's nothing worse than being out of Stone Edge PP against something like Subroost Zapdos. Second, it deals all the damage I need to important Pokemon. It OHKOs Gyarados and Salamence after Intimidate, it OHKOs Zapdos, and it has a pretty awesome 30% Flinch that can bail me out of annoying situations. Finally, fuck 80% accuracy. 90% isn't significantly better, but it still means that I lose randomly only half as much as usual.

    Synergy: Fighting attacks go to Salamence. Ground attacks go to Salamence and Breloom. Water attacks go to Breloom and Salamence. Grass attacks go to pretty much anyone but Swampert.

    Soldier

    [​IMG]

    Soldier (Swampert) (M) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 108 HP/204 Atk/96 Def/100 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Waterfall
    - Ice Punch
    - Stone Edge

    "If God had wanted you to live, he would not have created ME!"

    Swampert, the Soldier, is the perfect balance between bulk and damage output. For this team, Choice Band Swampert is the weapon of choice. Boasting a massive 505 Attack, alongside impeccable coverage from STAB Waterfall/Earthquake with Ice Punch and Stone Edge for coverage, Choice Band Swampert finds it easy to switch into opposing teams and give them a beatin' they'll never forget. Swampert is essentially my catchall Pokemon, as it can switch into threats like Tyranitar, Heatran, Electric-types, and others. Once it's in, it's easy to just start smacking stuff around with Swampert's great coverage.

    Swampert was an interesting choice for this team, mainly because it's always thought of as such a defensive Pokemon. I've contemplated dropping Cursepert in here, simply because I've seen CursePert work so damn well, but I'm still iffy on the whole thing. If anyone that has used CursePert wants to ring in and let me know how it worked out for them, lemme know.

    Synergy: Grass-type attacks go to Scizor, Salamence, Breloom and Jirachi.

    Demoman

    [​IMG]

    Demoman (Salamence) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
    Naughty nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    - Draco Meteor

    "Oh, they're gonna have to glue you back together...IN HELL!"

    Salamence, the Demoman, is the all-purpose revenge killer for this team. Facing a Choice Scarf Salamence is like coming around a corner and noticing that wall full of Sticky Bombs just a moment too late to save yourself from their blast. In the first iteration of this team, this was an Adamant DD Gyarados with Bounce, usually serving as my opening sweeper, quick switchin, and sometimes cleaner. However, with Jirachi as my only Choice Scarf user and no Pokemon with more than 100 Base Speed, I found myself losing to things that I shouldn't have much more often than I would have liked.

    Salamence fixes that. It provides the same benefits (Intimidate, Ground immunity, Water resistance, Fire resistance, mad power with its STAB), but it also provides instant speed and power for cleaning up lategame or revenging key threats. In addition, Scarf Outrage hits almost as hard as +1 Waterfall, if not harder, due to its 50% higher base power. Mence does a lot for this team... but it doesn't do it much per battle. Stealth Rock, Sandstorm, and coming into some attacks can chip it down extremely fast, so I have to be careful how I take attacks with it lest I be swept by some stupid shit lategame.

    Synergy: Ice-type attacks go to Jirachi, Scizor, and (ice beam) Tyranitar. Rock-type attacks go to Jirachi, Breloom(ish), and Swampert. Dragon-type attacks go to Jirachi and Scizor (and Draco Meteor to Tyranitar sometimes)

    Conclusion

    This team has been pretty awesome for me, and if it weren't for the ridiculous amount of time I spend on stuff like The Smog, Little Cup, and other stuff, I'd probably end up on the leaderboard. Rate away!
  2. KnightoftheWind

    KnightoftheWind
    is a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,331
    Hey SDS, this is a very cool team and I like the TF2 theme.

    This team does seem a tad weak to Infernape. The Specially Based Mixape can trouble every member of your team, hitting every member of your team for super effective damage, so you better predict well to get Scizor or Salamence in, as they're the only Pokemon that can kill it without being outsped.

    Try out Scarf Latias over Salamence. It may not have Intimidate, but it makes up for it by easily coming in on Infernape and have overall better staying power, and it provides the same good resistances Salamence offered. In case you are worried about Physically Based Mixape with U-turn, they rarely carry Grass Knot, so Swampert handles it well. You may also have the blues about the Pursuit weakness, but that same weakness can provide a free turn for Breloom or Tyranitar to set-up and cause havoc.

    Overall, good job with the team.
  3. A.P.

    A.P.

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Messages:
    731
    Honestly, I would keep Stone Edge on T-Tar? Why? Because, once you get to +1/+2, you're going to be doing big damage with Crunch anyways, so it's better to hit as hard as you can with your other moves.

    Other than that, nice team, hope I helped.
  4. vashta

    vashta "It was pretty cool to watch Tim Duncan from afar"
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2008
    Messages:
    402
    Hi SDS.

    I haven't got much to say really, especially as I've basically just told you my suggestions via IRC, but just for future reference so it's written for you, I'll just re-iterate the situation. Firstly, I would like to back KOTW's suggestion of Choice Scarf Latias > Salamence; yes, you'll have to play around more to scout out Pursuiters, but I'm sure a battler such as yourself will be able to deal with this minor dilemna. No, the reasoning for why Choice Scarf Latias may be beneficial for you over Salamence is so you have a way of dealing with Infernape who is a true pain to your team, especially if Stealth Rock is down against you, thus Salamence can't really come in and attempt to revenge all the time, furthermore to the fact that Infernape may have already scouted what type of Salamence you're running and may tread with caution. Not only does Latias help with your Infernape problem, but it indeed helps you deal with bulky Dragon Dancing Salamences with Roost (as it can revenge kill and hit it hard with Draco Meteor), and helps you with the Life Orb Heatran issue I addressed to you before; Heatran will need minimal prediction to absolutely trample on this team as it 2/OHKOs every Pokémon on this team with Hidden Power Grass, Earth Power and Fire Blast alone. Yeah, you said you can play around it, but you're certainly going to be having problems as it appears that Salamence is the key to your pivoting around to ware down Life Orb Heatran -- unfortunately, it isn't going to be switching in too much because of the omnipresent Stealth Rock. With access to Trick, Jirachi is no longer required to hold Trick as a possibility -- Latias works as an excellent Trick user to cripple stall teams, and by extention, becomes an ordinary sweeper once it has lost its Choice Scarf so you don't lose the sense of momentum. I would like to suggest the following set that:

    Latias @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe,-Atk)
    - Surf
    - Draco Meteor
    - Trick
    - Thunderbolt

    Secondly, but on a more minor note, you said this would leave you with a problem in the form of Swords Dance Lucario; well, as this is true to some extent, Jirachi can act as a reasonable check to it and can deal with it through revenge killing with Fire Punch (assuming you don't mis-use it earlier in the game). You may want to opt with using a slightly bulkier EV spread of 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Speed with your current nature, though I don't know how much of a problem losing the Speed is to you, most prominently with Latias making up for the Speed, too. The 80 HP EVs just give Jirachi a nice amount of bulk needed to be able to switch into the odd attack from foes such as Hidden Power Fire Gengar (which Scizor is always reluctant to switch-in on), and the odd hit from Lucario, to a minor extent.

    Finally, you went on to say that Choice Specs Latias was a threat, and with good reasoning as it is severely denting your Scizor's current set by doing a beastly 53.35% minimum with Draco Meteor, and if it hits with maximum damage, it is likely that you could lose Scizor instantly. Then again, this could be beneficial for you as Tyranitar would be given the time to switch in and set-up, though there is the likelyhood of Latias Surfing instead of using Draco Meteor, where a 2HKO is still very promising against Scizor. In this case, I would like to suggest you change Scizor's spread to a more Specially Defensive one of 162 HP / 176 Atk / 168 SpD / 4 Spe, but this doesn't take away the Defensive potential of Scizor, as it can still make those necessary switches expected against Salamence, some Tyranitar switches, opposing Scizor switches, etcetera. This spread is never 2HKOed by Latias or Salamence's Spec'd/Life Orbed Draco Meteors, respectively, and can deal with them accordingly through Pursuit / Bullet Punch, again, respectively.

    Once again, nice team, and good luck with it in the future.
  5. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Factory Headis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,084
    This team looks pretty solid. It looks like it would beat offensive and balanced teams fairly consistently, but I really have no idea how this team manages to beat stall. Having four choiced Pokemon (none of which have Trick) makes it very easy for stall to play around, with Protect, and easy switching. I also don't like Scarf Mence with Tyranitar on the same team. You will only see 3 switch-ins at most, which is a bust. I used to use Scarf Mence on one of my better teams, and I love the Pokemon, but I just don't like it in conjunction with Tyranitar.

    Anyways, this is just a preliminary rate with some issues I noticed. I will finish my rate with suggestions later tonight or tomorrow. Looks good so far though, so I'll probably have a hard time fitting changes in. We'll see.
  6. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,267
    Updated the team for Jirachi to have Trick over U-turn since I absolutely NEVER use U-turn on it.

    Also, Scizor makes shit hard for Stall pretty often, as does Breloom. Still, I can totally see your issue, Philip.

    As for Latias > Mence, it seems interesting, but I have issue with it for a couple main reasons.

    1: Mence flat out wins games for me. It switches in twice and revenge kills shit, then the third switchin destroys teams with Outrage. This is generally why I chose Scarf Salamence to fill this slot.

    2: Latias kinda kills the whole "nothing walled by Blissey" intent of the team. Originally I was going for "No special moves", but Salamence doesn't really have four solid physical options and Draco Meteor hits so fucking hard.

    Still, I'll try it out at some point.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)