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DPP OU Team Siren Song

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Legacy Raider, Nov 30, 2008.

  1. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider sharpening his claws, slowly
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    May 1, 2008
    Well, I do like to ramble a lot, but this time I'm going to do it in my own RMT.

    I like offensive teams. Having tried stall on many occasions, I find the whole pace of the game too slow for my liking. As a result, the majority of my teams tend to be focused around beating the opponent into the ground with strong attacking pokemon, and this team is no different. This has been one of my most successful teams to date, surpassing even my rain team on the leaderboard. It has been updated and revised many times, but now I think it's time I asked all you guys for help. After all, two heads are better than one, and with the help of the many heads here I hope I can make this team reach even greater heights than before =).

    Just one note, please take the time to read the descriptions as well, as many of my pokemon have very specific roles on my team and these need to be taken into consideration when suggesting alternatives.

    Smogonites, I present team Siren Song:

    At a Glance:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Strategy Overview:

    The overall aim of this team is to systematically remove Scizor's counters to allow it to sweep unhindered in the end game. This team mainly utilizes bulky sweepers to not only slow down the opponent's sweepers, but to do weaken the entire opposing team into Bullet Punch range.

    However, despite the end aim being a Scizor sweep, all my pokemon are respectable sweepers on their own. If left unchecked, each and every one of them can sweep a team by themselves. Each member also contributes something to the team as a whole as well.

    In Depth:

    Azelf --- Samarium
    @ Focus Sash
    Naive (+Spe, -SpD)
    200 Atk, 56 SpA, 252 Spe

    - Psychic
    - Taunt
    - Stealth Rock
    - Explosion

    Azelf, the standard lead. I'm very surprised at how few Azelf run Taunt nowadays. It really is such a great move - especially so since so few people use it nowadays and it is not really expected. Hippowdon always waste a turn trying to SR up against me, and Ice Fang is a 4HKO, which gives me plenty of time to set up my own SR and smack him a couple of times with Psychic. Taunt also messes up Trick / Stealth Rock leads, since even if they do manage to Trick the scarf onto me they won't be able to set up their rocks.

    Psychic is good for OHKOing Gengar and Infernape, and 2HKOing Aerodactyl. Stealth Rock is essential to this team as it cancels out opposing Focus Sashes and really helps weaken flying type pokemon such as Zapdos, Gyarados and Salamence, which really slow down my own Lucario and Scizor. Explosion allows Azelf to really leave his mark on an opponent's team, doing a good deal of damage to even super bulky things such as Hippowdon.

    Despite its frail defenses, Azelf does provide a very valuable fighting and ground resist to the rest of my team. However, more often than not Azelf suicides in the first few turns, meaning that most of my battles start off like this:



    Tyranitar --- Krag
    @ Choice Band
    Sand Stream
    Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    172 HP, 252 Atk, 84 Spe

    - Stone Edge
    - Pursuit
    - Crunch
    - Earthquake

    Tyranitar is the real powerhouse of my team. It works very well with Azelf, resisting the Dark and Ghost attacks that plague it, while Azelf can take most Ground and Fighting attacks aimed at Tyranitar. Azelf also attracts a lot of scarf Gengars, which can then be taken out easily by Tyranitar.

    With Sand Stream in effect, Tyranitar is effectively working with a SpD stat of 354. Add to that the 384 HP and 256 Defense and you have one tough bugger to take down. Tyranitar serves as my special wall of sorts, and is my only real answer to Zapdos, which gives this team a lot of trouble. Thunderbolts don't really do anything memorable, and Tyranitar can Pursuit or Stone Edge the electric bird to its grave.

    Stone Edge is the primary method of attacking. It is usually quite hard for teams to find good Rock resistances in a team, and so STAB Stone Edge coming off 604 Atk is going to leave a dent in almost everything. It also 2HKOs Skarmory, who Tyranitar has been EVed to outspeed to hit it before it can roost. Pursuit is my favourite move in the game, allowing me to damage the thing I want to before it can escape. Crunch utilizes Tyranitar's Dark STAB to the fullest. The last slot was a toss up between Earthquake and Aqua Tail, but I decided to go with Earthquake for Magnezone and Lucario since all my other pokemon can deal quite well with Hippowdon and Gliscor.

    Tyranitar's Sand Stream does a great job of weakening opposing walls, but it doesn't bother my team too much seeing as half of it is immune, and Gyarados and Porygon2 pack recovery.



    Gyarados --- Chiasmara
    @ Leftovers
    Impish (+Def, -SpA)
    252 HP, 236 Def, 20 SpD

    - Waterfall
    - Dragon Dance
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    I needed something that can take status, strong fighting, fire, ground and steel attacks, and yet pose an offensive threat at the same time. RestTalk Gyarados fits the bill perfectly. A lot of my team is weak to fighting, and Gyarados makes an excellent switch into almost all fighting types and can outdamage them with Waterfall. For example, a Machamp Dynamicpunch manages less than a quarter damage on this Gyarados. Gyarados also deals with Scizor, Breloom, Lucario, Heracross, Heatran, and numerous other things that would sweep me in a heartbeat if not for him. So you can say that Gyarados is my primary physical wall in this team.

    Once again, Gyarados has great synergy with Tyranitar, resisting the Water, Fighting, Steel and Ground attacks that he hates. In turn, Tyranitar doesn't really mind taking strong electric attacks with his bolstered SpD. Rest and Sleep Talk, along with Gyarados' great bulk and Intimidate, mean that the opponent better be packing a strong electric attack or Gyarados will set up all over them. This makes an excellent late game stat up sweeper as well if needed.



    Porygon2 --- Binaryte MK II
    @ Leftovers
    Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    252HP, 216 Def, 40 SpA

    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Thunder Wave
    - Recover

    <3 P2. This is really such a great pokemon, and fits in very nicely in my team. Lucario often gives things like Salamence and Gyarados free turns to set up, so I need something that can provide a guaranteed stop to them. And what better a counter than Porygon2? Intimdating the duo on the switch in, he takes laughable damage from LO Outrage and Waterfall and can OHKO both of them. Porygon2 can also Trace Electivire's Motor Drive and Jolteon's Volt Absorb as they try to zap Gyarados; Trace Magnezone's Magnet Pull after it kills one of my steels and paralyse it while taking <50% from Thunderbolt; can copy Dugtrio's Arena Trap and kill it with Ice Beam while taking less than half health damage from CB Earthquake; and can trace Heatran's Flash Fire and paralyze it as it tries to prey on Scizor. All in all, P2 rocks.

    Ice Beam and Thunderbolt give it excellent coverage and get the aforementioned KOs on Salamence/Gyarados. Although Toxic would be really nice in helping stall out other bulky pokemon, the great sweeping advantage granted to all my pokemon by Thunder Wave is too good an opportunity to pass up. Once paralysed, things like Zapdos, Gyarados, Magnezone, Heatran, etc cease to be threats any more. Recover makes Porygon2 extremely hard to take down. I've outstalled whole stall teams without T spikes with this thing before.

    Porygon2 provides excellent paralysis support for all my pokemon, and works great in tandem with Gyarados.



    Lucario --- Skywalker
    @ Choice Specs
    Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe

    - Aura Sphere
    - Dark Pulse
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Vacuum Wave

    Specs Luke takes to the stage once more. The team is named after Lucario's fighting technique. The sirens of old used to be seductive creatures that lured sailors to their deaths. Much like these seductresses, Specs Lucario acts as a lure to common SD Lucario and Scizor counters and then takes them out by surprise on the special side. I'm talking about things like Gliscor, Hippowdon, Swampert, Forretress, Rotom and Zapdos, who expect to switch into a Close Combat and are instead surprised by a HP Ice or Shadow Ball.

    Aura Sphere is a scarily powerful attack, taking out things as bulky as Scizor out in one blow. It's also great when the opponent switches Blissey out of a predicted Close Combat, only to have to bring it back in to try and take Lucario's special attacks. Shadow Ball is nice for getting the neutral hit on Heracross, but I am strongly considering replacing it for Dark Pulse, which will let me hit Blissey and Snorlax for reasonable damage. HP Ice is excellent for getting the surprise KO at the start of the game, as well as being a ward for Salamence and Zapdos who think they can smugly switch in. Vacuum Wave is a great attack on Specs Luke, allowing him to make up for his mediocre speed and get the kill on things like Weavile and DD Tyranitar. Having strong STAB priority on both spectrums on the same team is also invaluable for revenge killing purposes.

    Lucario acts as an excellent lure for many of Scizor's counters, and with some smart play paves the way for it to sweep an entire team.



    Scizor --- Skarlet
    @ Leftovers
    Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    252 HP, 76 Atk, 176 SpD, 4 Spe

    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Brick Break
    - Roost

    We come to the star of the show. This Scizor set is incredible. The difference in survivability between Leftovers and Life Orb is really noticeable. Things that usually slow down a normal Scizor sweep - pokemon like Starmie, Vaporeon, Swampert, Bronzong, Gliscor, etc - are mere set up fodder for this Scizor. Alternating between Swords Dance and Roost while taking ~35% damage from most of these pokemon's attacks, it is ridiculously easy to get to +6 and sweep an entire team.

    Brick Break is chosen over X-Scissor because it means that Heatran and Magnezone will think twice before switching in to try and kill of Scizor. With these defensive EVs, Scizor will always survive Modest Specs Magnezone's Thunderbolt. At full health, it also has a 75% chance to surivive a Timid ScarfZone's HP Fire.

    Scizor is the pokemon that everyone else tries to set up for. This set is very independent and can take me from being 1-4 down to victory. It also makes an excellent revenge killer for things like Skymin and Salamence. All in all a truly excellent pokemon.
  2. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider sharpening his claws, slowly
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    May 1, 2008
    Threat List

    Defensive Threats

    [​IMG] Blissey - Can't really wall anything on my team apart from Porygon2. Best course of action is to get rid of it there and then with Tyranitar's pursuit. If it lacks Flamethrower, it is set up bait for Scizor.

    [​IMG] Bronzong - I do miss having a fire type move on my team, but Bronzong doesn't overly threaten me anyway. Gyarados can take the sleep, Porygon2 can outstall Explosionless versions, and Tyranitar and Lucario can both 2HKO. Scizor sets up on it very easily.

    [​IMG] Celebi - Tyranitar can KO with Crunch, or pick off with Pursuit, while surviving a Grass Knot. Lucario can do lots of damage with Shadow Ball. Set up bait for Scizor if it lacks HP Fire.

    [​IMG] Cresselia - Tyranitar picks it off with Pursuit. Scizor sets up.

    [​IMG] Donphan - Lucario can take out with Aura Sphere. Porygon2 can outstall with Recover and KO with Ice Beam. Gyarados and Scizor both set up on it.

    [​IMG] Dusknoir - Lucario surprises with Shadow Ball. Tyranitar Crunches / Pursuits. Gyarados doesn't mind the burn and can set up on it. Scizor can't.

    [​IMG] Forretress - Lucario OHKOs with Aura Sphere. Gyarados can set up on, Porygon2 can outstall with Thunderbolt / Recover. Scizor sets up on.

    [​IMG] Gliscor - Lucario surprises with HP Ice. Porygon2 beats it with Ice Beam. Gyarados and Scizor set up on it.

    [​IMG] Gyarados - Porygon2 takes out with Thunderbolt.

    [​IMG] Hippowdon - Lucario takes out with HP Ice / Aura SPhere. Porygon2 outstalls, Gyarados and Scizor set up on it.

    [​IMG] Jirachi - Tyranitar take out with EQ. A bit of a threat if it gets too many CMs.

    [​IMG] Rotom-A - Can be handled mostly between Lucario, Tyranitar and P2. However, more often than not leaves TTar crippled and Lucario low on health. Quite a problem.

    [​IMG] Skarmory - Tyranitar outspeeds and 2HKOs. Lucario OHKOs. Porygon2 takes out with Thunderbolt.

    [​IMG] Snorlax - No surefire way of taking it out. Tyranitar hits very hard with Stone Edge, Lucario 2HKOs with Aura Sphere. But if it gets too many curses can be a real problem.

    [​IMG] Suicune - Quite a big threat if gets too many CMs in. However, Scizor can set up alongside Crocune and beat it in the long run.

    [​IMG] Swampert - Aura Sphere 2HKOs. Scizor loves to set up on it.

    [​IMG] Tentacruel - Tyranitar Earthquakes. Walls everything else, but without recovery not too much of a threat.

    [​IMG] Tyranitar - Lucario can take out all versions, as can Scizor.

    [​IMG] Vaporeon - Scizor sets up easily on it.

    [​IMG] Zapdos - Tyranitar is my best answer, but can be outstalled with Toxic + Roost. However, together Tyranitar, P2 and Lucario can take out any Zapdos set. If it has Toxic, Sub and Roost, then Lucario can 2HKO with HP Ice. If it has Toxic, Roost, Tbolt, Heat Wave, P2 can paralyse it and then Tyranitar can KO it.

    Offensive Threats

    [​IMG] Azelf - Most are suicide leads which get Taunted by my own Azelf or be killed by Tyranitar. Sweeper ones are rare, but Scizor can take out with Bullet Punch.

    [​IMG] Breloom - Gyarados takes sleep. Scizor beats with Bullet Punch and Roost. Porygon2 beats it unless it can get behind a sub.

    [​IMG] Dragonite - A lot harder to kill than Salamence, but P2 can take it on all the same. Once locked in Outrage is easy pickings for Scizor.

    [​IMG] Dugtrio - Can trap and kill Tyranitar and Lucario, but Porygon2 will always revenge kill right back.

    [​IMG] Electivire - Can be a problem as many now run Flamethrower or Fire Punch. Porygon2 can beat with Motor Drive, and Lucario can take it out with Vacuum Wave, but apart from that it is pretty dangerous.

    [​IMG] Gallade - Gyarados can take both the sleep and its attacks. Scizor can Bullet Punch.

    [​IMG] Gengar - Azelf can take out unless scarfed, in which case Tyranitar takes it out. Scizor can Bullet Punch it either way.

    [​IMG] Gyarados - Porygon2 take out easily.

    [​IMG] Heatran - Tyranitar makes a good counter, as does Gyarados. Porygon2 can switch in on Fire Blast by tracing Flash Fire and paralyze it.

    [​IMG] Heracross - Gyarados doesn't have much trouble with it.

    [​IMG] Infernape - Gyarados makes a nice counter. Lucario can Vacuum Wave.

    [​IMG] Jolteon - Porygon2 can trace Volt Absorb. Tyranitar takes little from it and can Pursuit it.

    [​IMG] Kingdra - Can be a major problem. Usually just hit it hard as I can with whatever is out, then priority kill it with Lucario.

    [​IMG] Lucario - Gyarados handles it well. Own Lucario can Vacuum Wave it for an easy kill.

    [​IMG] Machamp - Gyarados handles it well. Lucario outspeeds and does massive damage with Aura Sphere.

    [​IMG] Magnezone - Obviously a threat because of my Steel types. However, Tyranitar takes little from it, and P2 can trap it back with Magnet Pull.

    [​IMG] Mamoswine - Weak to both my priority users, who can both OHKO.

    [​IMG] Metagross - Gyarados takes on most versions quite well, and Porygon2 can take a Meteor Mash not too badly. Lucario can do big damage with Aura Sphere.

    [​IMG] Porygon-Z - Tyranitar handles it well. Lucario kills with priority, as does Scizor.

    [​IMG] Salamence - DD version handled easily by P2. MixMence can only be beaten by prediction, but can be Bullet Punched by Scizor and Stone Edged/ Pursuited by Tyranitar.

    [​IMG] Scizor - Handled by Gyarados. Lucairo OHKOs with Aura Sphere.

    [​IMG] Starmie - Tyranitar can take out with Pursuit. Scizor can set up on non-Specs ones.

    [​IMG] Togekiss - Tyranitar can survive an Aura Sphere and OHKO with Stone Edge. Scizor does good damage with Bullet Punch. Once P2 paralyses it, much easier to take out.

    [​IMG] Tyranitar - Lucario and Scizor take it out.

    [​IMG] Weavile - Gyarados walls it. Lucario and Scizor both kill it.

    [​IMG] Yanmega - Can be quite a problem because of high defense and resistance to Vacuum Wave. Gyarados does quite well against it though, and SR means it won't be coming back in to readily.

    [​IMG] Zapdos - Offensive variant aren't so much of a threat. Tyranitar can usually deal with them fine.

    That's about it for my team. I realise that it's very long and detailed, but every pokemon has a very in-depth role, and by explaining it rating my team will be a lot easier. Thanks for taking the time to read through this. Please comment and critique away.

    Thanks, LR.
  3. 13blue101


    Sep 20, 2008
    Wow. Thats all I can say about this team. This is one of the sturdiest teams I have ever set my eyes on. Ive stared at this RMT for ~10 minutes and no huge threat stands out. Only an SD Ape can threaten the team a bit. VW doesnt always kill an Ape at ~80% health I think. (i appoligize if this statement is wrong) Amazing team LR.
    On a side note, where did you get the in depth sprites for the pokes? They're really amazing to look at.
  4. Sixonesix

    is a Past SPL Champion

    Dec 2, 2007
    I must say I really like this team. Not much to adjust, except if Zapdos gets too hard to handle for some reason you might consider switching Tyranitar to Careful nature and pumping its special defense (while keeping the Choice Band). Good job, very sturdy team.
  5. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider sharpening his claws, slowly
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    May 1, 2008
    Thanks for the positive comments =). I did try really hard to keep every offensive threat covered while still having a strong offense of my own. SD ape is a bit of a problem, but they aren't too common thank god. And if the worst comes to the worst, Gyarados takes a maximum of 68% from a -1 Life Orb Thunderpunch, and so if it doesn't have a SD up then at least I can take it out like that. Lucario does 45-53% with Vacuum Wave, so that could actually give a lot of trouble.

    The sprites I got from http://www.pokesho.com/, which is a Japanese fanart site.

    Haha yeah, when helping you with your team I used my team as a basis because I knew from experiene that it worked.

    Thanks =). Yeah, I actually had Tyranitar with the Careful SpD spread initially for that very reason, but I found I needed my attacks to be doing more damage, e.g. with Careful you can't Pursuit a fleeing Salamence into SR KO range, or OHKO a Rotom with Crunch while you're burned.

    Thanks for the advice though, I'll keep it in mind if I'm having too much trouble.

  6. Phoenix_21


    Mar 18, 2007
    For Pory2 you said Toxic would be useful for bulky pokemon but paralysis is too good to give up. Have you tried combining the two with Discharge and Toxic? I imagine you've tried this already, but just in case you haven't it might be worth considering.
  7. Fatal Edge

    Fatal Edge

    Aug 31, 2008
    Okie Dokey. Lets see if I can help you against the threats.

    Well the first thing I will address is Rotom. To fix this I would make Tyranitar a bigger threat your opponent. Make it a Tyraniboah, doesn't care about being burned if it has Dark Pulse, or you can make it a DDTar with Lum Berry. Thouhg I like Tyraniboah better since it helps you more with Skarm/Bliss. Lucario does too but Tyraniboah helps you with Stall Teams in general.

    I can't really find a Suicune counter on this team and if I try to add one it might mess up the synergy.

    Well after looking at your threats the best thing would be a scarfed rotom over Porygon2. If you send it in while Salamence uses DD you can outspeed it if it's adamant and you are timid. But if it's jolly and outrages you you can just go to Scizor and finish it off with a Bullet Punch. Though Electivire and Zapdos are probelms a rest talk pert over Gyarados could somewhat work I suppose.

    Hope that helps.
  8. chaos 9

    chaos 9

    Apr 19, 2007
    Hey legacy long time no see! This team looks mighty solid and I only beat you on shoddy because of a crit. :(.

    For azelf, I would consider putting some attack evs on there. I usually run this spread; 252 spd, 200 atk, 56 sp. atk. This allows your explosion to be incredibly strong and can dent even those that resist.

    Tyranitar looks pretty good, although the special defensive evs would allow it to take more special attacks seeing as it's your sole special wall and zapdos check, but I guess that's personal preference.

    That gyrados is one bugger to take out, I know from experience. Looks good there.

    I think porygon2 could would benifit from a few more special defense evs to take on heatran more effectivly. I would suggest a 252 hp, 196 defense, 60 sp. def spread to take special hits more effectively. Unless of course those special attack evs are essential for somthing I'm missing.

    On lucario, I would definitly replace shadow ball for dark pulse because I have not seen a heracross in ages. Blissey is flat out immune to shadow ball as well so it automatically grants the whore a free turn even if it has <15%, in which case it would be KOed by dark pulse.

    The scizor set looks pretty standard, although, you might want to invest in at least 8 speed evs to beat other 4 speed scizors to the punch as that could be a deciding factor in a match.

    As for threats, 2 things that look harmful are suicune (offensive mostly) and cm jirachi. Both can dent your whole team after a cm or two while you can do nothing about it. Tar and scizor are mild checks for jirachi, but suicune can rip things up. I suggest investing in a lead not named azelf to remedy this problem. Maybe switching azelf for a phazer would help. I don't really know what can counter both without disrupting the synergy, but just a few things to watch out for.

    Overall, solid team. Great job and keep up the good work.


    -chaos 9
  9. nyczxjay

    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 30, 2007
    Wow, I lol'ed because I made this exact team a few hours ago before I saw this (same team members but different spreads and moves on some). Anyways it looks like a great team. I know you said you already tested it but I would really recommend the bulkier version of the CB Ttar simply because it lasts a lot longer. It seems that Ttar is your main special attack absorber and you would want to let it take as many hits as possible.

    As for O.Ownage's damage calcs, I'm pretty sure those calcs are for Modest Specs Luke (unless Metalkid's damage calc is incorrect). And on the topic of Luke, I would suggest using Dark Pulse over Shadow Ball (as mentioned by others before me). As you mentioned, while you hit Heracross neutral with SB, Normal types take no damage. As opposed to using Dark Pulse, you can at least do damage to both (4/0 Heracross will still take about a 4th HP damage).

    Anyways good job and there's really not much to fix since you have most of the bases covered. All teams have some trouble spots (in your case it would be Suicune) but I think this team can play around them.
  10. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider sharpening his claws, slowly
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    May 1, 2008
    Thanks for the suggestion. Although Toxic would be really nice, I still think that guaranteed paralysis is more helpful for my team of slow hard hitters. I'm against using Discharge because knowing my luck it will never paralyse when I need it to =P. Also it doesn't guarantee the OHKO on Gyarados.

    Thanks for the suggestions. I need CB Ttar's Pursuit to make sure I get rid of things like Rotom and Blissey, which could otherwise slow down my other sweeper. When I'm using this team, Tyranitar is really quite expendable. I don't care if it gets burned/ Grass Knotted/ Thunderbolted to death, as long as it takes out or severely weakend the Rotom, Celebi or Zapdos with it.

    Also, about timid Rotom, its max speed is 298, which is one less than Adamant Salamence's 299, so it can't really revenge kill a +1 Salamence.

    Thanks though.

    Thanks for the suggestion =). I never thought about putting more Atk EVs on Azelf. I think I'll keep enough SpA EVs to 2HKO Aerodactyl/ OHKO Gengar and Infernape, and chuck the rest into Atk for a bigger bang.

    Like I said before, I need Tyranitar's Pursuit to be as strong as possible to bring fleeing Salamence/ Zapdos into SR KO range. I used to run the Careful Tyranitar but I really find the Adamant one to be much more effective, for this particular team at least.

    And yeah, <3 Gyarados =P.

    Thanks, yeah I wish P2 could have some more SpD too. However, currently I'm using a very specialized set, and the EVs are all important.

    They allow me to take <53% damage from a Life Orb -1 Atk Salamence Outrage, <74% from a neutral Atk Life Orb Salamence Outrage, and <40% from Gyarados' Waterfalls. Also, the SpA EVs guarantee me the OHKO on physically bulky Salamence with Ice Beam and a minimum of 90% damage on Life Orb Gyarados with Thunderbolt.

    I'll do that, thanks for the excellent rate.

    Wow, thanks for the great rate =). Yeah, those damage calcs look very promising. It seems like the power drop isn't that considerable as it doesn't really change any OHKOs into 2HKOs or anything like that. Being guaranteed to outrun Mamoswine and Gyarados will be nice too. Thanks for the help.

    Thanks for all the suggestions. Please keep them coming.

    Thanks, LR.
  11. MetaNite

    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    May 4, 2008
    This is a good team. Azelf wants Fire Blast for Aboma leads.

    You should definately switch to Timid on Lucario. LO Zapdos can run through this team if Tyranitar becomes weakened enough.

    I also think Toxic should be used over T-Wave on Pory. That way you can deal with Blissey better.

    Personally, I think Gyarados needs another attack. I find that its usually beaten when he's using Sleep Talk and just keeps on picking Dragon Dance pretty much allowing a free switch in to any semy lucky opponent.

    I think Kingdra can set up on you pretty easily, especially the sleep talking set. It won't even mind status from Porygon.

    Overall, I think Slowbro should actually go over Gyarados:

    1. Lucario covers its Bug, Dark weaknesses and can give you an easier switch in
    2. A better Machamp counter, being immune to Confusion and not being weak to Stone Edge.
    3. Can usually handle physical threats better
    4. You can give it Flamethrower, so you can handle Scizor a load better
  12. nyczxjay

    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 30, 2007
    I actually agree with MetaNite here. Max Atk Scizor with Life Orb (w/o a SD) will do: 65.23% - 76.90% with X-Scissor to 252/252 Bold Slowbro and you can do 97.38% - 114.53% to 252/0 Scizor with Flamethrower (w/o a Calm Mind). And if your opponent decides to SD predicting you to switch out, you kill it w/o taking any damage. :)

    I think a good set would be:

    Slowbro @ Leftovers
    Own Tempo
    Bold - 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpA
    Flamethrower/HP Elec/ Ice Beam
    Calm Mind/ HP Elec/ Ice Beam
    Slack Off

    This is all in theory of course and would need testing.
  13. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider sharpening his claws, slowly
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    May 1, 2008
    Slowbro learns Flamethrower o_O?

    I'm a bit reluctant to slap it on my team as it really isn't much of an offensive threat, and it is outsped and taken out by Tyranitar. It also takes a hell of a lot from Heracross Megahorns, and more Lucarios run Crunch than Stone Edge. Gyarados can at least do the last pokemon CurseLax thing (I have actually beaten a couple of stall teams without Perish Song like this), it can take status, and gives me a ground and bug resist too. Gyarados is really my only switch in for Scizor, so I am loathe to replace it with something that is weak to bug.

    But since two respectable battlers have suggested it, Slowbro is definitely something I might look into with a slight shuffling of this team.

    Thanks guys,


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