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DPP OU Team StrongBOTs! [OU Offense]

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Atticus, Aug 19, 2009.

  1. Atticus

    Atticus Atticus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnuswon the 10th Official Smogon Tournamentis a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,383
    Intro:

    So a lot of people have been asking me what exactly I used against the frontier, and due to popular demand I've decided to retire I suppose one of my favourite teams: StrongBOTs. This team is basically a reincarnation of one of my older teams from the chomp era and really is nothing special, simply put, it's just pure offense.

    The Team

    [​IMG]

    ROCKBOT (Azelf) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 8 HP/6 Atk/252 Spd/244 SAtk
    Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Explosion
    - Psychic
    - Trick

    ROCKBOT starts things off with its ridiculous speed. Now, I originally ran the standard focus sash Azelf when I began, however after getting completely destroyed by scarf Breloom I realized I wanted a lead that could out speed virtually everything and so scarf was chosen. I soon found that this set was much more effective than I thought it would be. Firstly it puts me at an advantage right off the bat when facing stall as I immediately cripple one of their walls, secondly if I save Azelf for later in the match with scarf intact I can explode on whatever tries to set up on me thanks to its insane speed, specifically stuff like Gyarados, Kingdra, Latias etc. I chose psychic over U-turn/any other attack because I wanted to be able to deliver consistent damage to bulky Pokemon (especially Rotom-A). This set however does have its problems, specifically with Heatran/Roserade/Metagross leads. If I’m feeling ballsy, I sometimes trick hoping they SR but usually I just go to Starmie right away for Heatran/Metagross and simply psychic Roserade right away. Interesting fact though, max attack gross cannot KO Azelf with Meteor Mash, in fact maximum damage is 99%!

    [​IMG]

    DRAGANBOT (Flygon) (M) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw/Fire Blast

    Flygon is a damn good Pokemon despite what a lot of people say and it's very important to my team thanks to its useful resistances. When I build any offensive team a ground Pokemon is almost always essential as I need something to absorb incoming Thunder Waves and electrical attacks which otherwise slow down any offensive team. Now I decided to run Choice Band simply because he just wouldn't inflict enough damage with scarf. I also enjoy the raw power of a Banded Outrage which hits like a truck to anything that doesn't resist it and is very useful for weakening/killing bulky Pokemon such as Machamp/Suicune. The fourth move is always up for debate, normally I use Dragon Claw however sometimes I run Fire Blast simply because Skarmory is a giant asshole to this set.

    [​IMG]

    STARBOT (Starmie) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Rapid Spin
    - Hydro Pump

    LO Starmie with Rapid Spin was originally the Pokemon that I wanted to base this team around after someone had told me he had immense difficulty facing it while using stall. I have to say if I predict properly it can really frustrate a person using stall as Hydro Pump will 1HKO some Rotoms after SR and Rapid Spin is really self explanatory as it will spin away all their entry hazards. It can also throw players off guard as when they see LO recoil they immediately think that I don’t have Rapid Spin which I promptly use afterward. That’s not to say though that Starmie is only useful for slowing down stall, its an all round, great Pokemon once Blissey is out of the picture. The power of LO Hydro Pump has simply shocked me as it has killed some Tyranitars after SR, and has inflicted heavy damage to Scizor.

    [​IMG]

    HOTBOT (Heatran) (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Earth Power
    - Fire Blast
    - Explosion
    - Hidden Power [Grass]/Dragon Pulse

    STARBOT's partner in crime. It's not really Heatran's typing that help Starmie (although the two compliment each other decently) but really it's Heatrans ability to scare users into bringing their special wall (ie Blissey/Latias) and then explode right in their bloated faces. If done properly, it opens up a path for Starmie/Rotom-h to sweep. Heatran's typing is also really exceptional in regards to helping my team; the ability to eat up fire and ice attacks is really nice, not to mention it's a great switch in to ScarfRachi who otherwise can really hurt my team. The fourth move is a bit of a toss up although I generally use hp grass 70% of the time simply because I like 2KOing Vaporeon, killing Swampert and sometimes even badly hurting Suicune.

    [​IMG]

    STOVEBOT (Rotom-h) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 42 HP/252 Spd/216 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Trick
    - Overheat
    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball

    What was originally Zapdos in the chomp era has now been replaced with Rotom-h! The main reason being is Lucario: Flygon cannot survive a +2 Extremespeed (something Garchomp could do) so I needed something that could stop Luke dead in its tracks and threaten to KO it. Scarf Rotom-h truly is one of my new favourite Pokemon, Thunderbolt+Shadow ball offer excellent coverage and can really wreak havoc after Blissey is dispatched and if not, Trick works wonders. The ability to switch into fighting/ground attacks makes it fairly easy to switch in and cause damage however I generally don't like using rotom early in the match unless I really need to. The reason being is of course the dreaded Tyranitar and Scizor. The EVs are slightly different than the standard Scarf Rotom as this one allows Rotom to survive a scarf Heatran’s Fire Blast after SR which therefore allows me to continue Thunderbolting the ever common Heatran switch in.

    [​IMG]

    KILLBOT (Scizor) (M) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 224 HP/252 Atk/32 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit
    - Bullet Punch

    And finally we have Scizor, a Pokemon I'm sure you're all very well aware of. Scizor's role early in the game is simply to scout and deal damage with U-Turn however mid to late game is where it becomes really important, its resistances allow me to switch in to things fairly easily. Scizor is a fairly good Salamence check (who otherwise destroys me) as SR+Bullet Punch+LO recoil means Salamence dies although I do usually have to sacrifice Scizor but it’s worth it. When playing with this team what I usually do is try to get everything within Starmie/Rotom-h's KO range (although this is not always the case). Scizor aids that by weakening/killing things with bullet punch. The EVs I use are slightly different, as I run a bit more speed then usual simply because Scizor has become such a threat to the game (as shown by it being #1 in usage) that so many Pokemon such as Machamp/Tyranitar and plenty of others are now aiming to outspeed Scizor, and I just do not want that to happen. And yes I know 1 v 1 with another Scizor I lose due to Superpower however I've rarely had that situation ever arise and more often than not its been a Bullet Punch war between my Scizor and the opposing one, in which case I have the advantage in speed.

    Conclusion:

    So there you have it folks, a simple, yet effective offensive style team tailored for Dppt. I have to say I’ve had a large degree of success with it as proven by going 7-2 in the frontier and producing consistently good numbers on the ladder although as with most teams, it does have its fair share of problems as I will go through with the threat list but before I get to that I'd figure I'd show the transition between my old team from about a year ago and my current team.

    Team YacheChomp and Friends: July 2008

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Team StrongBOTs: July 2009

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  2. Atticus

    Atticus Atticus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnuswon the 10th Official Smogon Tournamentis a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
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    Threat List: (stolen from Jabba’s thread which was stolen from KG's thread):

    Defensive Threats:

    [​IMG]Blissey – I really don’t like Scizor getting paralyzed so Flygon is usually the first switch into Blissey since most won’t use Ice Beam on the first turn, from there I either Dragon Claw although more often than not I’ll simply U-Turn to Scizor. Heatran also likes to explode on our fellow pink friend and Rotom-h can Trick, overall Blissey isn’t really that difficult to handle.

    [​IMG]Bronzong – Oh poor Bronzong, he’s just really bad nowadays in my opinion. Normally Scizor is the first switch in simply because Bronzong can’t do much other than use that glorious 60% hypnosis or EQ a small chunk. Rotom-h can also do a hefty amount with Overheat or Thunderbolt for that matter, and simply put Bronzong is not going to like taking repeated U-Turns over and over again.

    [​IMG]Celebi – Similar to Bronzong, I usually go to Flygon first as a lot of Celebi are running Hp Fire for Scizor and I don’t enjoy getting paralyzed which Celebi often do.

    [​IMG] Cresselia – Scizor Scizor Scizor. U-Turn U-Turn U-Turn (or Pursuit!) Cress also doesn’t enjoy taking Rotom’s Shadow Ball but usually repeated U-Turns by my 2 strong banders is enough.

    [​IMG] Dusknoir- Now that I think of it Dusknoir can be quite the pain, normally I just go to tran to try and absorb the Will O Wisp however if they predict Tran and EQ I’m in big trouble in which case I would just spam pursuit with Scizor. Thankfully though Noirs are quite uncommon.

    [​IMG]Forretress – HOTBOT is so hot it just comes in on this thing and does whatever the fuck it wants. Rotom can also come in to block spin if I feel its about to do that and threaten with Overheat or Trick since Foretress is always used on some form of stall team.

    [​IMG] Gliscor – Gliscor can be troublesome, Rotom can come in and trick or shadow ball for 45%~ or so and continue to spam shadow ball until I get a Sp.Def drop. Starmie will come in Gliscor most of the time and either spin or attack although it doesn’t like getting hit by EQ.

    [​IMG] Gyarados - Defensive gyara usually comes in on Flygon although if I can weaken it enough prior to it switching in Flygon’s outrage can finish it off otherwise I have Starmie/Rotom.

    [​IMG]Hippowdon – Hippo is usually a lead so it falls prey to scarfazelf should it stay in which allows me to set up some rocks and spam psychic. If its not a lead Starmie can usually come in the first time has they mostly SR turn 1, Rotom-h also handles Hippo relatively easily.

    [​IMG]Jirachi – Defensive rachis usually aren’t too big a deal, usually if I see it with leftovers I either go to flygon or scizor. Hopefully though if I go to flygon it doesn’t body slam because if paralysis connects I could be in big trouble.

    [​IMG] Rotom-A – Heatran is usually the best switch in to defensive rotom (please discharge don’t para). If I see it is in fact using discharge Scizor can make quick work of it with Pursuit, otherwise Heatran handles W-o-W variants.

    [​IMG]Skarmory – Starmie can come in and spin and stuff, rotom is can also do virtually anything to it. Flygon can also 2KO if I’m using Fire Blast.

    [​IMG]Snorlax – Argh lax, Scizor usually goes in first and either super powers/uturns, if it rests I usually go to rotom to trick.

    [​IMG]Suicune – Crocune can be tricky, firstly if I see it I try not to get locked into things like Bullet Punch or Dragon Claw however should it get a free Calm Mind rotom usually comes in and tricks and then spams tbolt followed by starmie who continues to thunderbolt suicune into an oblilvion, Flygon can also do 40% with outrage if it comes to that.

    [​IMG]Swampert – See Hippowdon.

    [​IMG]Tyranitar – I laugh at the curse variants with payback as its nothing but scizor food, lead tars with stealth rock generally don’t have pursuit but I really don’t care so I just SR right away anyways.

    [​IMG]Vaporeon – Vaporeon is a giant (BAN ME PLEASE) to all my offensive teams even dating back to the Garchomp era, I fucking hated it with a passion then and it still remains the same today. Usually I just go to Scizor right away and U-Turn to Starmie who would then Tbolt although if people properly Wish+Protect it becomes a huge problem. I usually try to go to rotom as they protect as I don’t like my rotom getting wet by that nasty base 110 surf. If vappy is switching into me (usually when I have heatran out) I can hp grass who thankfully 2Kos most of the time with SR or if I really need to just explode with Tran. Azelf too, can prove quite useful by tricking the fucker or exploding. Thankfully though in my frontier run I only faced one vaporeon and I managed to kill it thanks to a well timed explosion by azelf.

    [​IMG]Zapdos – Eh zapdos isn’t too big a problem, usually tran can switch in rather safely and threaten to do massive damage with Fire Blast however if its one of those Sub Zapdos’s that are faster than Heatran than it becomes very tricky, normally in that case I’m either forced to go to rotom/flygon and use tbolt/dclaw respectively.

    Offensive Threats:

    [​IMG]Azelf – I’m going to assume it’s a lead and just trick it right away. 90% of the time they’re going to Stealth Rock so I basically snatch their sash, followed by stealth rock and I just explode/psychic. If its an offensive azelf usually scizor can handle it however rotom can handle it fine aswell.

    [​IMG]Breloom – If its that Scarfloom lead then cool I’m up 6-5 thanks to Azelf, otherwise I just let whatever I don’t need get spored, and then go to scizor/flygon to uturn into rotom (If they are going to use focus punch) otherwise I’ll just uturn to the other uturner, dual uturners is a co_Ol combo

    [​IMG]Empoleon- I know I might sound kind of crazy when saying this but I have honestly never faced a timid/agility empoleon on the ladder which otherwise demolishes my team. Luckily though since most are modest rotom can come in and spoil the sweep with tbolt. I'm not sure if Starmie can survive a timid +1 surf but yeah I'll definately have to look into dealing with timid Emp.
    [​IMG]Gengar – gongor, hmm scizor/heatran can usually switch into the scarfed variants, actually scizor can switch into any gengar really, I just have to be wary of hp fire.

    [​IMG] Gyarados – Starmie can come in safely most of the time, otherwise scarf rotom just laughs at it.

    [​IMG] Heatran – Oh the beauty of Starmie/Flygon/Heatran. Most of the time either one of these 3 can safely switch in heatran, although I generally don’t like going to starmie first as it takes quite a bit from fire blast and with no recover… oooFF. I just predict accordingly.

    [​IMG] Infernape – Argh sometimes it can be tricky, Starmie can usually come in safely although not repeatedly, normally the plan to kill infernape is to come in on close combat with rotom and finish with thunderbolt.

    [​IMG]/ [​IMG]Jolteon/Raikou – ugh, Jolteon and Raikou are similar so I’ll include them together. Both of them can be REALLY tricky if I don’t predict properly. Usually what I try to do is have flygon absorb the Thunderbolt and either bluff scarf and stay in or just double switch to Scizor if they already know I’m banded who then proceeds to deal hefty damage with U-Turn. Scizor can deal a good amount of damage with Bullet Punch to Jolt if that’s needed and rotom can come in on either although if Raikou subs im quite screwed but if it cms then I have an opening for trick! Along with Vaporeon, I’d say these 2 are the main problems for my team.

    [​IMG] Latias – Scizor can usually handle most latias sets although the specs variants can be problematic, usually if I see it specs I’ll usually sack something and just pursuit/U-Turn it. Any HP fire Latias, although uncommon can be really problematic. As usual I firstly see if Azelf is ready to explode otherwise im going to need to go straight to rotom.

    [​IMG]Kingdra – Rain can piss me off sometimes although it isn’t too difficult, if Azelf is still alive then fuck yes, even in the rain it should be able to outspeed it and explode otherwise I go to starmie right away, tbolt and then go to scizor if it’s locked in outrage. Bullet punch is also useful for dealing with kingdra despite its resistance.

    [​IMG]Lucario – ROTOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (hopefully it isn’t pursuited early in the match) but if it is then I just can’t give it an opening to set up, most of my Pokemon can’t be KOd by an unboosted luke bar heatran and can all inflict heavy damage back.

    [​IMG]Machamp – I have to predict well to beat this thing, usually I just switch back in fourth between rotom/scizor. Flygon deals a good 80% with outrage too should it get within that range.

    [​IMG]Magnezone – Ugh, scizor does not enjoy dying to the might magnet monster but otherwise it isn’t too big a problem, Flygon enjoys switching in choiced tbolts and starmie is faster than max speed scarf zone anyways (by 1 point!) and can retaliate with hydro pump which deals about 80%.

    [​IMG] Mamoswine – Rotom-h is a pretty nice counter as ice shard isn’t going to be dealing too much. Starmie can come in on ice attacks and threaten with Hydro PIMP. Scizor can survive EQs but doesn’t enjoy banded EQs which hurt a lot but thankfully I have plenty of flyers/levitators.

    [​IMG] Metagross – GRAGH metagross, I’ve already stated what I do against leads so I’m just going to talk about purely offensive gross. Agiligross is dealt with scarf rotom and hopefully they aren’t faster with zen headbutt although to be quite honest, I’ve never seen one.


    [​IMG] Salamence - Salamence can be checked by Scizor, as stated SR+BP+LO Recoil kills mence. Salamence usually can’t ever DD unless I’m locked in Overheat with rotom. If however mence comes in on Scizor’s pursuit I usually have to sack starmie to get it locked in outrage however if azelf is still alive then great, I’ve got a surprise explosion for our blue friend.


    [​IMG]Scizor – Scizor can be tricky, usually rotom can switch into virtually anything although it doesn’t enjoy repeated Uturns, Heatran is usually my U-Turn sponge although super power is something I always have to keep in mind.

    [​IMG]Starmie – Specs/LO Starm can actually cause quite a lot of problems, if that’s the case I usually just have to sack something and go to 100% Scizor to either pursuit/uturn or go to Rotom and use the according stab move.

    [​IMG]Tyranitar – Scizor is usually the first switch in although sometimes I may opt to go to Flygon if I fear a fire move is coming, if its Babiri Dance, then I just go to flygon after scizor dies or explode with azelf if I still have it. If Tyranitar comes in on Starmie its not going to kill it without a fight as I always stay in on TTar and Hydro Pump the living daylights out of it, as said before, I try not to use rotom early in the match however sometimes I simply can't and ttar does screw me over.

    [​IMG]Weavile – SCIZOR

    [​IMG] Zapdos – Flygon is usually a decent switch in since most offensive zapdos run hp grass and can inflict massive damage with outrage, heatran can come in on heatwav/hidden power and threaten with fire blast.
  3. animenagai

    animenagai
    is a Past WCoP Winner

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    I saw Taylor use that starmie against Jabba in that epic match. It's pretty damn crazy and unpredictable. I could see myself giving up rocks as well as losing one team member (or two) playing that thing.

    The biggest problem I see with this team is T-tar pursuiting your rotom and then pokes like gyara and luke giving you a hard time. Eh, I can't say the team's not good though as you obviously accomplished something major with it. I'm fuully jealous. Great stuff ^^
  4. JabbaTheGriffin

    JabbaTheGriffin Stormblessed
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    hurry with the threat list how am i supposed to rate it without one? goddamnit guyladouche.

    it's an alright team but i'd definitely attribute your success more to how well you use it. i remember facing you in frontier and not knowing when the fuck you were going to boom your damn heatran or if it even had boom or what the hell was going on lol.

    like others have mentioned, a lot of problems are going to stem from any ttar form, especially ddbabiritar. what do you currently think your weakest link is? i'm feeling flygon but you're the one using the team so you'd know better.
  5. musiquev24

    musiquev24

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    Hello!

    I see your team being a bit weak to PENGINBOT, TYRANIBOT and other STARBOTS. Empoleon doesn't seem to have a lot of chances to setup though, its just the chance of it getting setup being what could end your team if you didn't have Scarf on Azelf still. I think DD Babiri Tar could be problematic, but even then you could revenge with Flygon. Scarf/Specs/LO Starmie would probably do a lot of damage to you, but you acknowledge that.

    I can't think of any suggestions, because just looking at it right now I think taking anything out would leave you open to too many other things. Maybe I'd see more things if I wasn't so tired, so I'll look at it again tomorrow. Really, this is a well built team, and beating Frontier really shows that (and/or that you're just a really good player, as Jabba said.)

    5 Stars from me.
  6. Blue_Tornado

    Blue_Tornado

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    I'd say this team is slightly walled by AUGUSTBOT.

    Haha, this team is great. I saw it in action against BK.

    Depending on Rotom-H to stop Lucario is never good. Scarfed Rotom is extremely easy to Pursuit, resulting in a Lucario weakness. Since Lucario can set up on CB BP and Pursuit from Scizor, Dragon Claw from Flygon and more, he can threaten your whole team with a +2 Extremespeed.

    So, I suggest switching one of your pokemon (maybe Rotom?) to something that can take on both Lucario and Tyranitar with ease, while keeping up the offensive pressure. I think I have a solution: ScarfRachi:

    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf | Serene Grace
    Jolly Nature | 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Iron Head / Fire Punch / Thunderpunch / (U-Turn / Ice Punch / Trick)

    Jirachi can check DD Tar and SD Lucario (if it has enough health to survive a +2 Extremespeed), while also covering Adamant Salamence (Ice Punch is preffered, but since you have Scizor, Ice Punch for Mence is less needed) and Jolly Gyarados. U-turn can keep up the momentum while Trick can be an "oh shit" button when things get out of hand.

    If you find a place for this guy, it can help you greatly against your problems, but it'll probably ruin your team a bit (as with all good team). The choice is up to you.

    Good luck!
  7. Aeroblacktyl

    Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL!
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    Definitely not the team I faced in Frontier cause I was fucking around with my Empoleon team which in fact would've easily 6-0'd o_O
  8. august

    august free the robots
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winnerwon the 5th Official Smogon Tournament

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    What up ATTIBOT.

    Others have already mentioned your TTar weak, but I'm more worried about Magnezone + DDMence as Scizor is like your only mon thats gonna be able to revenge kill DDMence other than ROCKBOT (hmm Azelf revenge killing Salamence, this sounds like our frontier match >___>). It isn't even like DDMence doesn't have anywhere to setup because it can setup on CB Earthquake and Rotom's Overheat. There is nothing i can do to immediately fix this problem, but I suggest trying out Dragon Pulse Heatran a little more.

    Dragon Pulse also helps against Draco Meteor / Surf / Hidden Power [Fire] Latias as the only defense you really have against Latias is Scizor and ROCKBOT, and Scizor is OHKO'd by HP Fire and ROCKBOT may not be alive because it's a suicide lead. Dragon Pulse tears off a nice chunk of LOtias on the switch so you don't have to predict as much.

    5 stars, congrats on the frontier. Very STRONG team boy.
  9. ThePatriot

    ThePatriot

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    I also agree on the dd tar weakness. To help this i would go with the scarf- achi mentioned earlier. Also, you could try and fit substitute on heatran ot give yourself a safety net against annoying switch ins.

    Thats all i got on this great team So Good Luck :)

    Oh and congrats on your amazing feat at the battle fronteir.
  10. Aeroblacktyl

    Aeroblacktyl The pizza doesn't scream in the oven! LOL!
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    There's nothing DDTar can set up on other than Rotom, and even then, Rotom will still outspeed, able to Trick, and force Tar to use one move and go from there. Example: Scizor on Crunch, anything if was stupid enough to DD, etc.
  11. pai

    pai

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    On Starmie, I'd suggest replacing Rapid Spin with Recover..adds survivability which is essential since you have LO..besides, you don't need Rapid Spin that much, mainly because none of your mons are weak to t/spikes..

    nice team man ^_^

    EDIT: obvious typo, you have timid on heatran.. should be naive
  12. Atticus

    Atticus Atticus
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnuswon the 10th Official Smogon Tournamentis a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

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    I appreciate the offering but I really don't think ScarfRachi would be a good replacement for rotom-h as I really rely on the fighting immunity a lot and I don't think Jirachi can really do rotom's job properly. I will say though I have rarely been swept by Lucario, as said before I try not to lose rotom early in the match to pursuiters although when it does happen I simply try my best to not give it an opening to SD.

    Well it was believe it or not!, Rotom-h basically swept most of your team x)

    Yeah dd mence+ zone can be a bitch and I see that and that pesky hp fire latias my team hates so much. I do actually run Dragon Pulse though sometimes on tran although tbh fire blast deals about 65% to mence already or something like that and most of the time I just boom on latias anyways should it come in on tran. As for DD mence since magnezone revenges scizor the second time mence comes around it should be at 50% so it becomes a tad bit easier to handle and much like how I handle lucario after rotom is pursuited I handle mence as I try not to give it an opening to set up.

    Actually when I began using this team I ran subtran for that reason but then I realized Sub+LO+SR meant heatran wasn't sticking around much and I really wanted a fourth move at times so I decided to go with that. Interesting fact but I remember flygon surviving a cb ttar crunch before so I might give it a bit of bulk solely so that dd+babiri tar doesnt do too much damage.

    I suppose I could test recover but I remember august telling me he used the same starmie and he never really got the opportunity to recover since as with most offensive teams he's just attacking non stop lol. Not to mention since this starmie isn't bulky at all it can't really take hits to well anyways. I actually really like rapid spin as it can somewhat allow me to deal with spikes smeargle at the start and although my team isn't really SR weak it really aids the team as 12.5% each switch in really adds up, especially since I don't have any form of recovery. As for timid i actually have been using it over naive and I really haven't had any problems in regards to explosion being weak as the life orb really kicks ass. Explosion has already been KOing Bliss and latias and thats all I really need to do, really the only thing I've notice explosion a little uneffective to was crocune so i definately will try naive although I enjoy heatrans bulk as it is.
  13. sora13

    sora13

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2008
    Messages:
    523
    ALirght, to fix most of your problems, including, your DD DRACOBOT and DD TYRANIBOT weak, I suggest you switch your STARBOT to the lead position with the exact same moveset except with Grass Knot over T-bolt(useful for SWAMPBOT) and change your ROCKBOT to SWAMPBOT of your own. It will set-up SR reliably, check DD-mence and DD-tar for you and give you another poke that Empoleon can't set up on. Here's the set I recommend.

    SWAMPBOT @ Leftovers
    Relaxed
    216 HP/ 240 Def/ 52 Sp Atk
    -Earthquake
    -Ice Beam
    -Hydro Pump/ Surf/ Roar
    -Stealth Rock

    And there you have it. And in case you're wondering, Starmie handles Focus Sash leads like this:

    STARBOT used Hydro Pump!
    Azelf lost 100% of it's health.
    Azelf hung on using it's Focus Sash.
    Azelf used Stealth Rock.
    Pointed stones float in the air around the opponent's team!

    STARBOT used Rapid Spin!
    Azelf lost 0% of it's health
    Azelf fainted!
    The pointed stones were blown away!
  14. august

    august free the robots
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winnerwon the 5th Official Smogon Tournament

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    The only problem with keeping Starmie in on Azelf is you risk a speed tie and if you don't win it you basically lose Starmie and you still have Stealth Rock on your side of the field. Trick helps to cripple Stealth Rock leads enough as it is because most leads like Aerodactyl tend to Taunt Azelf first.

    Swampert also kinda fucks with the synergy of the team because it slows down there pace, whereas Atticus uses pace to his advantage with this team (i can attest to this), and slowing it down by having to bring Swampert in and Stealth Rock in order to keep Gyara/Mence at bay is really slowing down his pace. Pert can't even reliably counter both Mence and Tyranitar without Wish support anyway and he has said countless times he can play around the weaknesses.
  15. franky

    franky
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Problems:

    mentioned already

    How to fix:


    Don't have much to say, great team. Charge Beam Jolteon is a problem but you could handle it by bluffs and switch-outs so just watch out for it. Babiri Tyranitar could be an issue as mentioned already. I don't know but you could give a Stall breaking Gliscor with SR if you like over Azelf. It keeps a fast tempo in the match still, screws with Stall and acts as a reliable check to Babiry Tyranitar. You def. dont want to loose Scizor early in the match, as it connects the team together. If its gone, Salamence and such wil run rampart. Give that a try, other than that, its superb, I like the previous team though with chompy in it :P
  16. iKitsune

    iKitsune

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Messages:
    805
    What an exciting team, this is probably the most anti stall team i have ever seen.This is a perfect example of anti-metagaming and i congratulate you for that.

    Although this team is expert at defeating stall i think that in general you will be 50/50 against other offensive teams. So i suggest, provided you want to make the team more viable for the standard metagame that you put in place some changes or just be aware of these threats.

    This team is farily weak to DDers in general. The combinations: SalaZone and TTar and Gyara will dismantle this team. The former removing Scizor so mence sweeps unimpeeded and the latter should get rid of your rotom. These tactics will work even better if the opponent uses lures to entice these two pokemon in. Not much you can do here but be aware of this hopefully azelf should still be alive. It may be an idea to use a Scarf instead of a CB on Flygon to have another option against these threats but overall i think the loss in suprise factor and sheer power will have a detrimental effect on the team.

    TTar, as you have already mentioned, causes a multitude of problems for this team. Though i think the main set you will struggle with is the CB set. This team is completely destroyed by CB Stone Edge which 2hkos/ohkos everything on the team furthermore pursuit, as i've already mentioned forcibly removes the majority of your revenge killers.

    Even worse for this team is the threat of SDers in particular Lucario and to a lesser extent Scizor if used in conjuction with the green-rock-dinosaur you are in a world of pain. When confronting a Lucario, with rotom gone, i suggest you go to Scizor on the predictable SD'ed espeed then back to starmie for the cc then back to scizor and bp it. Obviously you have heatran and rotom for sd scizor but nevertheless if its a roost variant with TTar accompanying it you may struggle.

    Finally Rain Dance teams destroy your team. Although Azelf is a fairly good solution to them as it is able to outspeed them even in the rain Ludicolo and Kabutops with aqua Jet will still be problems. Once again Scarfing flygon could be a great help.

    I'm loathe to suggest anything as this is obviously an extremely succesful team. I just felt like pointing out your areas of weakness and i hope this has enlightened you. Azelf being such a crucial member to this team could probably do with a longer life against a TTar lead i suggest you
    put U-turn over Psychic on Azelf. Seeing as Azelf is so useful it would definitely ensure it survives this match up and u-turn also goes with the fast paced nature of this team it also allows you to power up explosions due to the evs it frees up.

    Regardless of these threats this is an excellent team and im sure that due to the rarity of the majority of threats i have mentioned you have an excellent winning ratio.

    CONGRATS ON THE FRONTIER WIN

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