Team: Tyrant King [OU Heavy Offense]

Incorrect. Bulky Gyarados with Taunt is actually a very common EV spread, and is actually beneficial to his team to prevent set ups and allow Gyarados to get some free Dragon Dances off. He's not fragile at all except to maybe Jolteon, Electivire, or Magnezone,
You forgot to mention the fact that it completely shuts down Skarmory, who would otherwise Whirlwind away all of your Dragon Dance boosts.

Why are you running 252 Atk with only Explosion? There's no point to that at all, seeing as you're only using one attack, which causes you to Faint, which is a gigantic waste. Swap those 252 Atk EVs to HP, which will give you more survivability. Running 252 of anything offensive for one attack, especially a self-sacrificing one at that, is idiotic. Besides, the Pokemon you would be Exploding on are resistant to Explosion anyway, so it doesn't matter. Try Taunt or U-turn. I agree with using Uxie over Dual Screen Azelf, but the only problem I see with Uxie is the fact that it is horrendously slow, getting easily Taunted (even more so when they find out it's a Dual Screener).

Concerning the Bulky Taunt Gyarados, you're gonna want Waterfall over Aqua Tail. Bounce is okay, but you'll want to be careful around Pokemon like Vaporeon, or anything with Protect really.

I also noticed that you have a slight problem with Skarmory. Taunt Gyarados can deal with it, but eventually it'll be defeated by Stealth Rock. Jirachi is only managing 24.6% - 29.3% with ThunderPunch, which gives Skarmory time to set up Spikes, Roost, and just cycle through your team with Spikes.
 
Except after a dragon dance an aqua tail will 2hko a max hp max defence skarmory anyway. Why rely on 2 dragon dances, when 1 will do?

But the bulky set is very useful behind screens as it can set up on almost anything. It's just when rotom/zapdos/starmie switches in your still in trouble, aqua tail and bounce solve this with a life orb.

The set would be
Gyrados @ life orb
Adamant
72 hp/252 attack/184 speed
- Dragon dance
- Aqua tail/Waterfall
- Bounce
- Earthquake / taunt

I'm pretty sure nothing in the entire game resist this whole set. I think it's the only move combination gyarados learns that hit's every poke for at least neutral damage and it will always either get stab or a supper effective hit on every poke.

Aqua tail and bounce have great type coverage and EQ rounds it off hitting empoleon and lanturn who resist them. It also destroys pokemon like metagross and Jirachi planning to take hit from him. People dismiss aqua tail, but 90% accuracy is reliable and the extra power lets you 2hko things like skarmory forretress etc.

184 speed, cus there really is no reason to have any more ev's in OU. Unless the rare alakazam/dugtrio/weavile/sceptile is bothering you. Weavile being the only one in OU and she can't do much when your behind duel screens.

If your taking gyarados on the offense this is the set to it, no need to worry about phazors cus you can just destroy them instead. But taunt can be used over EQ I supose, gyrados has the bulk behind duel screens to make use of it and it will throw off some skarm who think you don't have leftovers so you won't have taunt.

Skarmory is not a problem anyway, the mix infernape I suggested and salamence can both OHKO it. Really don't see the problem here? as well as gyrados 2hkoing it after a DD, and tyranitar destroying it with stone edge and the lucario I suggested would OHKO after a sword dance with CC.
 
So many suggestions! I'll test out all of these tomorrow and give you guys an update.

I'll test out the following things:
- Max HP/Spe Azelf
- NP MixApe > SD Ape
- SD Luke > ScarfRachi
- Bulky Gyara with Aqua Tail/Earthquake/Bounce

EDIT:


Alright guys. I will be testing the following team:
Azelf @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
---
Infernape (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Close Combat
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot
- Nasty Plot
---
Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 112 HP/252 Atk/12 Def/132 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Agility
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Meteor Mash
---
Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 72 HP/252 Atk/184 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Aqua Tail
- Bounce
- Earthquake
---
Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
---
Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Extremespeed
- Swords Dance
---

I will update the OP once I'm done testing.

EDIT: Just had 4 battles and realized Gyarados clears 2-3, and sometimes 4 pokemon before it goes down. Metagross can get 1-2 kills if I play it right. SubPetaya Empoleon shits on m team though and that's a huge problem. I also struggle with Machamp leads. I have rarely used Lucario and Infernape in a battle, maybe just once. Bounce on Gyarados is epic, after +1 I can OHKO so many things.
 
So many suggestions! I'll test out all of these tomorrow and give you guys an update.

I'll test out the following things:
- Max HP/Spe Azelf
- NP MixApe > SD Ape
- SD Luke > ScarfRachi
- Bulky Gyara with Aqua Tail/Earthquake/Bounce
Wait a minute... are you sure you want to do an HO team? Your kinda doing some weird changes in my opinion... I'll just go over those quickly:

-Azelf is perfectly fine, no problem with that.

-Infernape also absolutely no problem with it because in HO, it's either all phys. or all special with one mixed. So I'm guessing this infernape is mixed SD. (could be all the way phys, but with fire blast it works much better: you can easely take skarmory down.)

-ScarfRachi is useless on an HO, it is not a sweeper for it cannot set up; it is the contrary of what HO needs. The SD lucario was much better in my opinion. However you could remplace jirachi with an agiligross which also works very well.

-I would opt for the more offensive version as with the screens up you do not need the extra EVs bulk, therefore you can put them all in attack and speed to KO the stuff you weren't able to KO before. Taunt is a little bit useless in my opinion, I would rather go with more moves to extend its sweeping capacities. Also, Aqua Tail is not necessary if you choose to use the LO set because you will KO all the stuff you needed Aqua Tail to KO with a simple waterfall (which as flinch possibilities plus accuracy, which is much better than the extra power).
 
Wait a minute... are you sure you want to do an HO team? Your kinda doing some weird changes in my opinion... I'll just go over those quickly:

-Azelf is perfectly fine, no problem with that.
Actually, the biggest problem I have with Dual Screen Azelf is that it is insanely frail, even under Dual Screens. It usually comes down to 'Do I want to set up both Screens, or set up Stealth Rock', which is a huge problem. The HP EVs can help Azelf live long enough to set up Stealth Rock, and both Screens.

-Infernape also absolutely no problem with it because in HO, it's either all phys. or all special with one mixed. So I'm guessing this infernape is mixed SD. (could be all the way phys, but with fire blast it works much better: you can easely take skarmory down.)
Gotta agree on this one. When you're playing Hyper Offensive, you're supposed to pick which side of the attacking spectrum you want to hit from, and stick with it. You have no real need for wall-breakers, seeing as you can just soften said wall up, faint, and then send out something that finishes it up (or sets up on the wall in its weakened condition).

Mixed Swords Dance Infernape is actually a pretty decent idea. If you decide to test that out, you'll have to tell use how it went.

-ScarfRachi is useless on an HO, it is not a sweeper for it cannot set up; it is the contrary of what HO needs. The SD lucario was much better in my opinion. However you could remplace jirachi with an agiligross which also works very well.
I would personally go with Agility Metagross over Swords Dance Lucario. The only problem this will pose is that Will-o-wisp Rotom-A will piss you off that much more. If you decide to run Agility Metagross, I would try Lum Berry out, along with Zen Headbutt.

Choice Scarf users have no real use on Hyper Offensive, with their being locked into a single move, wasting valuable turns (and whittling down your Dual Screen time).

Those are all my personal thoughts.
 
Actually, the biggest problem I have with Dual Screen Azelf is that it is insanely frail, even under Dual Screens. It usually comes down to 'Do I want to set up both Screens, or set up Stealth Rock', which is a huge problem. The HP EVs can help Azelf live long enough to set up Stealth Rock, and both Screens.

Azelf is good because he is fast, he can set up screens, taunt or whatever before the opponent actually does his move, however he is frail and therefore may not be able to reset screens as much as you would want to unlike Brozong who is very solid and will surely reset up the screens more than one time, but the biggest problem now is that the opponent outspeed you and may damage/trick/taunt you and then you are pretty much forced to switch.

Gotta agree on this one. When you're playing Hyper Offensive, you're supposed to pick which side of the attacking spectrum you want to hit from, and stick with it. You have no real need for wall-breakers, seeing as you can just soften said wall up, faint, and then send out something that finishes it up (or sets up on the wall in its weakened condition).

Mixed Swords Dance Infernape is actually a pretty decent idea. If you decide to test that out, you'll have to tell use how it went.



I would personally go with Agility Metagross over Swords Dance Lucario. The only problem this will pose is that Will-o-wisp Rotom-A will piss you off that much more. If you decide to run Agility Metagross, I would try Lum Berry out, along with Zen Headbutt.

I must agree, Lum Berry is the item to use. Zen Heatbutt might be a nice addition although I am not sure since I haven't seen much rotoms lately.

Choice Scarf users have no real use on Hyper Offensive, with their being locked into a single move, wasting valuable turns (and whittling down your Dual Screen time).

Those are all my personal thoughts.
 
I must agree, Lum Berry is the item to use. Zen Heatbutt might be a nice addition although I am not sure since I haven't seen much rotoms lately.
Surprisingly, according to the last statistics, Rotom-A usage has been dropping. What I don't really get is why, since even with the advent of Choice Scarf Tyranitar, bulky Rotom-A can still live through Crunch and burn Tyranitar, making it useless.

Zen Headbutt isn't specifically just for Rotom-A. It hits things like Gyarados (if you're not carrying ThunderPunch), Zapdos (if you're not carrying Ice Punch), Machamp (who'll probably live through every other attack), and more than a few other Pokemon.

Azelf is good because he is fast, he can set up screens, taunt or whatever before the opponent actually does his move, however he is frail and therefore may not be able to reset screens as much as you would want to unlike Brozong who is very solid and will surely reset up the screens more than one time, but the biggest problem now is that the opponent outspeed you and may damage/trick/taunt you and then you are pretty much forced to switch.

Well, I did have an idea as to what the OP could use over Azelf and Bronzong. It's got decent enough bulk, with decent Speed, and sets up Dual Screens rather easily, as well as Stealth Rock.

Dual Screen Jirachi would work rather well. Here's the set, OP.

Jirachi @ Light Clay
Nature: Careful
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP | 100 Def | 156 SpD

  • Reflect
  • Light Screen
  • Stealth Rock
  • U-turn/Wish
Of course, you'd have to do some small tweaking concerning the EVs, and the move-set has a difficult choice. Do you want to be able to escape from Magnezone unharmed, or do you want to provide for the team?
 
Surprisingly, according to the last statistics, Rotom-A usage has been dropping. What I don't really get is why, since even with the advent of Choice Scarf Tyranitar, bulky Rotom-A can still live through Crunch and burn Tyranitar, making it useless.

Zen Headbutt isn't specifically just for Rotom-A. It hits things like Gyarados (if you're not carrying ThunderPunch), Zapdos (if you're not carrying Ice Punch), Machamp (who'll probably live through every other attack), and more than a few other Pokemon.



Well, I did have an idea as to what the OP could use over Azelf and Bronzong. It's got decent enough bulk, with decent Speed, and sets up Dual Screens rather easily, as well as Stealth Rock.

Dual Screen Jirachi would work rather well. Here's the set, OP.

Jirachi @ Light Clay
Nature: Careful
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP | 100 Def | 156 SpD

  • Reflect
  • Light Screen
  • Stealth Rock
  • U-turn/Wish
Of course, you'd have to do some small tweaking concerning the EVs, and the move-set has a difficult choice. Do you want to be able to escape from Magnezone unharmed, or do you want to provide for the team?

Yeah Jirachi is good but adding him after all these changes is just adding more and more ground weakness that he does not need at all, also I thought maybe an uxie would be a compromise between both and could actually work very well in my opinion. On Metagross I think the best set would be Meteor Mash/ Earthquake/Agility/Explosion. Explosion is there to get a random KO on something you just cannot kill. Thunder Punch is not as useful because no gyarados will ever switch on you and Machamp gets killed by meta if it still has its lum berry. Plus, Explosion has a major surprise effect.
 
Yeah Jirachi is good but adding him after all these changes is just adding more and more ground weakness that he does not need at all, also I thought maybe an uxie would be a compromise between both and could actually work very well in my opinion. On Metagross I think the best set would be Meteor Mash/ Earthquake/Agility/Explosion. Explosion is there to get a random KO on something you just cannot kill. Thunder Punch is not as useful because no gyarados will ever switch on you and Machamp gets killed by meta if it still has its lum berry. Plus, Explosion has a major surprise effect.
Yeah, concerning the Jirachi, you may be right. Of course, if we were to change a few other members of the team, the Ground-type weakness could be remedied. There's also Celebi, and even Metagross itself (which has the bulk and typing to play the role of Dual Screen set-up multiple times).

I think Explosion is a terrible move on that set. Yeah, you get one last kill, but what happens when you go against Rotom-A? You have nothing to hurt it, they hit you with Will-o-wisp, and now you've got a crippled Pokemon (either Metagross, or whatever you switched in to take its place), a two turns of Screens wasted setting up Agility, only to switch, and you (obviously) lost the boosts.

Uxie is rather predictable. It almost always uses Choice Scarf Trick in OU, and when it doesn't, it's Taunt-bait.
 
1. Heavy Offense doesn't use choice items.Call this whatever you want but it's not HO.
2. Bulky Gyara sucks on HO, aka use offensive DD. You can use Wacan if you really want to to get another DD but I don't really think it's necessiry but works well with the horrible scarf rotom.
3. Decide either ALL PHYSICAL or ALL SPECIAL attacks. I see it's already leaning toward physical attacks.
4. Change your lead to this:

Azelf @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 16 HP/188 Def/252 Spd/52 SDef
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Reflect
- Light Screen

I'll check for other quirks another time.

EDIT:
Now it looks more proper.
BTW you can try Bullet Punch > Crunch to hit Gengar, but you lose effectiveness against rotom.
 
I have U-turn > Taunt so that I can make a get away and come back later and *hopefully* set up screens again, or get one up at least. I'll definitely try out that EV spread though.

The bulky gyarados was altered to 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe and it's been doing well, so I'll leave it for now.
 
This... is not Hyper Offense. It doesn't come close, really, since it violates three steadfast principles of HO- LO (Almost) everywhere, no Choice attackers, and nearly everybody sets up or has a pretty much all-offense moveset. When I say almost, I mean excluding certain helpful items like Lum/Wacan/Yache/ect. Berries.

And to the people all behind me who doesn't get what HO means- HYPER OFFENSE MEANS THAT EVERYBODY SETS UP AND SWEEPS. The principle of Hyper Offense is to rape your opponent before they can counter your stuff behind screens. To the team maker- You got the screens part perfect, though I advocate Taunt over explosion. Taunt shuts down opposing set-ups, which can mean your Mence/Gyarados sweeps better. Explosion just gets you... A kill.

Uhh, no, you have other people to kill stuff right behind you.

Therefore-

Tyranitar needs to go, because he's dragging down Infernape and Salamence. If you keep Explosion on Azelf over Taunt, Tyranitar REALLY needs to go thanks to Sand Stream. Over him, I advocate Agiligross or... Dragonite, which may sound terrible- But making this a Double Dragon HO team isn't bad since Jirachi can be replaced by the similar Lucario, and you have two Weavile/Mamoswine checks counting Infernape. Put Mach Punch over Fire Punch- Skarmory is already going to go to hell after a Close Combat boosted by Life Orb and Swords Dance. Besides, if you include Lucario you've doubled up- The first time the wall took out your sweeper, you've sent in a similar guy to rape the wall and rape everything else cowering behind it. And priority always helps- If a Scarfrachi is at low health, give it hell with a Mach Punch and Mamoswine/Weavile curl up and die from even an unboosted one. Fire attacks can be covered by other members.

Gyarados does not function well on HO teams. Repeat- Does not function well. It still can't KO Rotom after SR damage, and Scarftom has a field day raping it. Replacing it for LO Starmie is the best solution in my mind. You already have Infernape to rape Blissey with CLOSE COMBAAAATTTTTT and if you replace Jirachi with Lucario you have more CLOSE COMBAAAAATTTTTT. Blissey will not be able to stand up to the team anyways!

I believe I helped.
 
This... is not Hyper Offense. It doesn't come close, really, since it violates three steadfast principles of HO- LO (Almost) everywhere, no Choice attackers, and nearly everybody sets up or has a pretty much all-offense moveset. When I say almost, I mean excluding certain helpful items like Lum/Wacan/Yache/ect. Berries.

And to the people all behind me who doesn't get what HO means- HYPER OFFENSE MEANS THAT EVERYBODY SETS UP AND SWEEPS. The principle of Hyper Offense is to rape your opponent before they can counter your stuff behind screens. To the team maker- You got the screens part perfect, though I advocate Taunt over explosion. Taunt shuts down opposing set-ups, which can mean your Mence/Gyarados sweeps better. Explosion just gets you... A kill.

Uhh, no, you have other people to kill stuff right behind you.

Therefore-

Tyranitar needs to go, because he's dragging down Infernape and Salamence. If you keep Explosion on Azelf over Taunt, Tyranitar REALLY needs to go thanks to Sand Stream. Over him, I advocate Agiligross or... Dragonite, which may sound terrible- But making this a Double Dragon HO team isn't bad since Jirachi can be replaced by the similar Lucario, and you have two Weavile/Mamoswine checks counting Infernape. Put Mach Punch over Fire Punch- Skarmory is already going to go to hell after a Close Combat boosted by Life Orb and Swords Dance. Besides, if you include Lucario you've doubled up- The first time the wall took out your sweeper, you've sent in a similar guy to rape the wall and rape everything else cowering behind it. And priority always helps- If a Scarfrachi is at low health, give it hell with a Mach Punch and Mamoswine/Weavile curl up and die from even an unboosted one. Fire attacks can be covered by other members.

Gyarados does not function well on HO teams. Repeat- Does not function well. It still can't KO Rotom after SR damage, and Scarftom has a field day raping it. Replacing it for LO Starmie is the best solution in my mind. You already have Infernape to rape Blissey with CLOSE COMBAAAATTTTTT and if you replace Jirachi with Lucario you have more CLOSE COMBAAAAATTTTTT. Blissey will not be able to stand up to the team anyways!

I believe I helped.
So you're saying my team should be:

Lead Dual Screen Azelf
Agiligross
SD Lucario
SD Infernape
DD Salamence
DD Dragonite (bulky?)
 
Hmm, maybe I wasn't clear...

I, myself, would change the team to this order:

DS Azelf (Light Clay)
SD Infernape with Mach Punch/Close Combat/Stone Edge/Swords Dance
SD Lucario with Crunch
DDMence (With Lum Berry)
Bulky DDNite- I'll eat my words, Nite has enough bulk to make use of Leftovers
LO Starmie

I think that's... What I was driving at. You could substitute Infernape for Agiligross with Thunderpunch for Gyarados rapage if you think that Starmie can't handle it before it gets a DD in. In my opinion, since Metagross has such incredible defenses to effectively take Earthquakes and Waterfalls even from a +1 Gyarados, it would make a good swap... Though you'd have Skarmory troubles (But that's what Starmie is for)
 
As an experienced HO player, I have to drop in to say something. Just a little suggestion, cause I don't have much time.

You are wasting Infernape's wallbreaking capabilities by using Expert Belt.
By using it, you dont get a consistent boost. I know how taxing LO can be, but I have the perfect set for you.

Infernape @ Fist Plate
Jolly
6 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spd
-Swords Dance
-Flare Blitz
-Close Combat
-Mach Punch

Fist Plate gives a good and consistent boost to both CC and Mach Punch, while the increased Base Power of Flare Blitz makes it altogether more powerful than Fire Punch with LO, even though Flare Blitz doesn't have a boost from Fist Plate. Because you do not LO recoil every turn it becomes to launch off the occasional Flare BLitz when it is needed(Rotom, Gliscor, Zapdos), and sandstorm recoil will not affect you as much even with Flare Blitz recoil.
 
^ Infernape never had much HP to begin with, however, and once somebody realizes that you're not Scarfed or Banded (If you don't go to the Swords Dance first) they'll just send in some fast Psychic-type or Flying-type. Replacing Flare Blitz for Stone Edge earns you both consistent damage for all your attacking moves and still allows you to nail Gliscor, Rotom, and ESPECIALLY Zapdos/Salamence/Gyarados while letting you run Life Orb. Besides, DDNite and DDMence can patch up the lack of fire-moves anyways since Steels are the bane of Dragon moves anyways.
 
Your team is becoming less and less HOesque. Here is what your team should approximatively look like if it was really HO:

-Azelf DualScreener
-SD Infernape (with a possible Mixed Set)
-AgiliGross
-DD T-tar
-DD Gyarados (offensive)
-DD Salamence (with a possible Mixed Set)

I'll explain myself why your team should approximately look like this:

1.The Lead Azelf is absolutely necessary to set up screens. Without those, your pokémons are too frail to set up and have enough HP left to do a possible sweep.

2.SD Infernape is one of the sweeps; it cannot be Nasty Plot. Why? Because in HO you can only have ONE SIDE of attacking which is either physical or special. Your team is crealy physical orientated, therefore using a NP ape does not contribute to your team in any way. However, an pure physical SD or Mixed SD infernape will.

3.Agiligross lost some of it's glory with the massive arrival of Rotom forms, however when they are taken down, it can be a major sweeper. The only problem with him is knowing when to set him up.

4.I think your Tyranitar set looks fine (Babiri with Dragon Dance/Stone Edge/Crunch/Fire Punch and Jolly Max Attack/Max Speed).

5.You really need to switch to an offensive Gyarados because its sweeping capabilities are simply much better than the one you are using now.

6.There's no problem with salamence.
 
@TheAmazingFlygon: Your suggestions... Worry me, because Sand Stream will, in conjunction with SR which every good team needs, is going to be insanely detrimental to Mence and Gyarados.

Plus, you do not HAVE TO HAVE YOUR TEAM BE COMPLETELY PHYSICAL! I advocated LO Starmie because Starmie makes physical walls like Skarmory GTFO, scaring it off or otherwise killing it. I believe the team needs something to break down physical walls with destructive special assualts, and LO Starmie easily accomplishes this role. Take Hippowdon; even after a +2 Close Combat from Infernape it's not dying whereas afterwards it KOs. You can kill them early to avoid sacrificing team members.

And... Gyarados is infinitely outclassed by the dragons in HO teams.

@Jukain-Arashi: Any moves you put have to follow the side of the spectrum you set up with- Swords Dance Infernape needs to have an all physical moveset and a -Special attack nature.

Otherwise, I'm happy my suggestions were well recieved!
 
Just noticed a few things testing GaRgAnt's suggestions. Sometimes I need to bring Starmie out on something that isn't a Gyarados in order to KO it. As soon as that threat is gone, my opponent sends out a pursuiter and manages to KO Starmie. Is there any way to remedy this?
 
@TheAmazingFlygon: Your suggestions... Worry me, because Sand Stream will, in conjunction with SR which every good team needs, is going to be insanely detrimental to Mence and Gyarados.

Plus, you do not HAVE TO HAVE YOUR TEAM BE COMPLETELY PHYSICAL! I advocated LO Starmie because Starmie makes physical walls like Skarmory GTFO, scaring it off or otherwise killing it. I believe the team needs something to break down physical walls with destructive special assualts, and LO Starmie easily accomplishes this role. Take Hippowdon; even after a +2 Close Combat from Infernape it's not dying whereas afterwards it KOs. You can kill them early to avoid sacrificing team members.

And... Gyarados is infinitely outclassed by the dragons in HO teams.

@Jukain-Arashi: Any moves you put have to follow the side of the spectrum you set up with- Swords Dance Infernape needs to have an all physical moveset and a -Special attack nature.

Otherwise, I'm happy my suggestions were well recieved!

Sandstorm does not matter much in HO; Sweepers will not life long enough or aren't bulky enough that losing a little more HP each turn will eventually matter. Secondly, the majority of the time you switch a pokémon in HO is to death fodder one in order to bring another sweeper, therefore it does not matter how many HP you have left. What kills physical wall is the mixed sweeper of this team aka Infernape: he's not there for nothing, he's there to take care of skarmory and friends. Yes you must sacrifice team members in HO, you do not need all your sweepers, most of them are just there to maybe kill 1 pokémon and scout; after you know your opponents team well, and the major threat to your final sweeper are down, then you do your end game sweep. I do not agree, Gyarados is definitely a very good sweeper once his counters are out of the game. and yes all moves must be one side of the spectrum or the other not both. You do not know the basis of HO very well...

Your suggestion were good, yes... but on his previous team which wasn't HO. Now that he is opting for an HO team, they aren't very good. Starmie is largely outclassed by Infernape who does Starmie's job+his own.
 

ginganinja

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I feel that you may have slight trouble with Rotom since it can burn the majority of your Physical threats. I suggest Zen Headbutt on Metagross to help against this threat.

I should also pint out that many successful HO teams do have an attacker with a focus on the opposide side your are looking to exploit, eg an all physical team many have a special attacker to hit physical walls hard or vice versa, I will also add that its prely optional though.

You do have to watch out for things like Hippowdon and Rest talk Gyarados (which is becoming slightly more popular with the rise of Infernape.) as they can prevent your team members from getting through.

man this is the biggest RMT I have seen in a while

Have a Nice Day!

EDIT:

Actually i must confess that I also stated that Hippowdon is a problem for the team as well as Rest Talk Gyardos. HIppowdon can take DD mence's attacsk and Roar it out, taking 25% off it and healing off the damage taken. Rest Talk gyarados prevents you from denting it with Infernape (unless you run Stone Edge over Mach Punch) and can constantly switch in and out to take your sweepers down -1 attack. metagross is only getting by Rest Talk Gyarados if it runs Thunderpunch however if it does so then you will have serious issues with Rotom who will switch in time and time again on Metagross and Burn everything in sight with only Infernape avioding a brun, however it hates taking STAB thunderbolts even with Lightscreen up. You probbely need to run a Mixmence over DD mence to hit physical walls harder but this is a minimalist fix.

Have a Nice Day!
 
Sandstorm does not matter much in HO; Sweepers will not life long enough or aren't bulky enough that losing a little more HP each turn will eventually matter. Secondly, the majority of the time you switch a pokémon in HO is to death fodder one in order to bring another sweeper, therefore it does not matter how many HP you have left. What kills physical wall is the mixed sweeper of this team aka Infernape: he's not there for nothing, he's there to take care of skarmory and friends. Yes you must sacrifice team members in HO, you do not need all your sweepers, most of them are just there to maybe kill 1 pokémon and scout; after you know your opponents team well, and the major threat to your final sweeper are down, then you do your end game sweep. I do not agree, Gyarados is definitely a very good sweeper once his counters are out of the game. and yes all moves must be one side of the spectrum or the other not both. You do not know the basis of HO very well...

Your suggestion were good, yes... but on his previous team which wasn't HO. Now that he is opting for an HO team, they aren't very good. Starmie is largely outclassed by Infernape who does Starmie's job+his own.
...I sense hypocrisy.

-SD Infernape (with a possible Mixed Set)
-AgiliGross
-DD T-tar
-DD Gyarados (offensive)
-DD Salamence (with a possible Mixed Set)
And you say I don't know HO well? Above here, your recommendations make two out of his five sweepers mixed. HO functions best when it's pure/mostly physical or pure/mostly special. Only one member on the team, if it's a mostly physical/special team, is needed to address walling behemoths like Hippowdon and Skarmory if it's a physical team or Blissey if it's a special team.

The weakness of most HO players is to become too reckless in letting members die; the best way to play such teams like the one we're talking about is to soften up the opposition in a very short period of time before the sweepers actually come in to set up. Of course, this may sound like you're attempting to carry out the war of attrition in a hyper-offense team, which is utter garbage, but simply weakening them first before you let sweepers kill and get killed themselves can perform wonders. Paralysis support beforehand is also helpful in setting up. A person cycling through certain walls on a stall team can easily wear out sweepers on HO teams without prediction; HO aims to lessen such predictive requirements with pure power.

Gyarados is definitely a very good sweeper once his counters are out of the game
You don't kill the counters beforehand in HO. You kill them after you set up. Standard Rotom easily survives a +1 Waterfall. The same is with Lucario, for instance; you do not kill Rotom beforehand, like on my own HO team, you kill it after you set up with a +2 Crunch and laugh. You're talking about the wrong context here.
 
...I sense hypocrisy.



And you say I don't know HO well? Above here, your recommendations make two out of his five sweepers mixed. HO functions best when it's pure/mostly physical or pure/mostly special. Only one member on the team, if it's a mostly physical/special team, is needed to address walling behemoths like Hippowdon and Skarmory if it's a physical team or Blissey if it's a special team.

The weakness of most HO players is to become too reckless in letting members die; the best way to play such teams like the one we're talking about is to soften up the opposition in a very short period of time before the sweepers actually come in to set up. Of course, this may sound like you're attempting to carry out the war of attrition in a hyper-offense team, which is utter garbage, but simply weakening them first before you let sweepers kill and get killed themselves can perform wonders. Paralysis support beforehand is also helpful in setting up. A person cycling through certain walls on a stall team can easily wear out sweepers on HO teams without prediction; HO aims to lessen such predictive requirements with pure power.



You don't kill the counters beforehand in HO. You kill them after you set up. Standard Rotom easily survives a +1 Waterfall. The same is with Lucario, for instance; you do not kill Rotom beforehand, like on my own HO team, you kill it after you set up with a +2 Crunch and laugh. You're talking about the wrong context here.

I don't make two pokémon mixed, that is why I said possible. What I implied is one of them will be mixed and the other will not.

Second of all, it is a fact that in order for an HO to work you must sacrifice members of your team: after you damaged the opponent's team enough, then you can let your final sweeper wreak havoc in the opponent's team. When I meant counter, I meant something that the pokémon you chose to sweep cannot touch. For example, let's say you decided too use a scizor as one of your sweepers. Then, after knowing you opponent's team well, you know that scizor will be the best choice to sweep. However, the opponent team has a gyarados which you must get rid of before you start sweeping with your scizor.

Otherwise, I totally agree with you: weakening the things that your final sweeper cannot touch is what the others members must do. They did their job if they weakened the opponent's team enough, but it's better if they killed one pokémon or two. Plus, when you actually start scouting the opponents team, you will set up to do so in order to see what the reaction of your opponent is and in the mean time you will get damage on his team. Also, yes the point of HO is too reduce prediction to its bare minimum using brute force, but that does not mean that you will not need too predict at times. And to ease these predictions even more, you should death fodder some stuff here and there once you are sure or nearly sure they aren't gonna be much if any help.

Thunder Wave, yes is an amazing support for some HO sweepers such as scizor, but most of the time an HO won't have a spot left for such a supporting move.

Where we start not having the same opinion is whether or not there is a spot for a specially orientated pokémon in a physical HO team. I think not. Why? Mostly because many physical sweepers can accomplish the job of wall breakers and sweepers such as Infernape or Salamence. Therefore, there is not need for a completely specially orientated pokémon in a physically based HO team. The main physical ''wall'' threats are taken down by these mixedsweepers (Skarmory, Bulky Gyarados, Rotom forms...). You mentioned Hippowdon being a problem for this team (which is the main reason why you wanted a starmie to be in this team, if I am correct). Yes it is a problem, but isn't it also a free set up for Gyarados and Salamence? For this reason I think it is not a major problem but rather a blessing for this team to face one.

And please forgive me if I offended you in any way shape or form.
 
Okay before posting, view the OP people. This thread has too many ideas floating around, and I think we need to focus on what's been tested and is currently working for me.
 
Okay before posting, view the OP people. This thread has too many ideas floating around, and I think we need to focus on what's been tested and is currently working for me.
I agree. Is this a monotype blue team or what? Now that I did my absolutely bad joke, let's move on to the actual analysis. I still think that you should try out a MixSD Ape. Call me crazy, but I think it just might work and its the thing you just miss. I'll give you a set that I personally think could work:

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
Evs: 252 Atk / 64 SpA / 192 Spe
Nature: Naive/Hasty
- Swords Dance
- Fire Blast
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge/ Mach Punch/ Thunder Punch

Swords dance is there for obvious reasons, no need to explain. Fire blasts is the essence of the mix; it allows you to take down such walls as rotom forms and skarmory and even a weakened Gliscor. Close Combat is also there for obvious reasons. Last slot: Stone Edge is there for the flying types like Gyarados, salamence, zapdos. Mach Punch is there for priority because since you sacrificed many EVs of Speed to put in SpA, you are slower than other apes for example. Also, it is of great help versus scarf Tyranitars who might want to revenge kill you and for Lucarios who wants to destroy you with extremespeed. Thunder Punch is simply there if you are really scared of gyarados.
 

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