Team Underrated [OU Special HO]

[GaRgAnt]

Small thing I noticed. You mention Focus Blast as part of Gengar's move-set, but you have it listed as Focus Punch. You might want to change that.

Is it a bad thing necesarrily? Focus Punch will still OHKO most Tyranitar unless they go to the extreme with their Defense investments, and it'll do more damage to Blissey in the long run. Of course, it's Pain Split/Sub Gengar, so when it has to worry about Blissey I'll have to check if I've passed on. And Focus Punch has that sweet 100% accuracy rating.

I really dislike the use of Togekiss on this team; it slows down the tempo of this team and just looks ugly. I recommend switching it to one of the following anti-bulky waters (they're nightmares for Infernape and Empoleon);

- Life Orb Zapdos ; incredibly hard to counter without Blissey
- Life Orb Shaymin ; cracks through walls and after a -2 SpD from Seed Flare almost every not-Blissey will be KOd by either Earth Power, Air Slash, or Hidden Power [Ice]
- Life Orb Roserade ; incredibly strong initial Leaf Storms and Leech Seed can somewhat nullify the threat of Blissey, Spikes

EDIT: didn't see the second page and see that you were already using shaymin. But don't use growth it sucks :x

...You forget that something named Scarftar exists and that each one of your above listed sets can be revenged with ease.

Zapdos- Has a typing that screams "STONE EDGE MEH PLZ"
Shaymin- You either go down kill it or take heavy damage from killing it or get killed and inflict nothing on it. Stone Edge does 60~% to LO Shaymin, so if it's at 50%- you can be assured of the 3rd case if Stone Edge hits. Don't say Stone Edge is a horrible move, because you obviously didn't realize that Stone Edge has a 4/5 chance to hit, and 4/5 times isn't that bad. Better than Focus Blast.
Roserade- I don't even want to say anything. It's got defenses so horrible that even Leech Seed isn't going to stop it from getting killed from a Crunch.

I recommended Togekiss because Togekiss is one of the few special attackers in the game that, after a Nasty Plot, can take down Blissey. After a single Nasty Plot, unlike Crocune who has to resort to stalling it out and unlike all above sets. I'm sure Blissey will be nullified slightly from Roserade's Leech Seed, but if it manages defends itself from a physical with its stat distribution I'll eat myself. Sure, Scarftar will deal heavy damage to Togekiss from Stone Edge, but at the very least it has a chance of surviving to paralyze and then Aura Sphere for the KO.

And it looks ugly. I'll admit that. But the ragequits, think about all the ragequits it'll cause~

 

[Jukain-Arashi]

@ TheShineyPidgey: Fixed. I might change my Gengar set though, I've been testing out another set that I think works better.

About Togekiss. There is no way I'm getting rid of this thing. Usually I get +2 SpA really easily. That means if Blissey comes in I have two options:
1) Air Slash it to Aura Sphere range to KO it
2) Thunder Wave, and hope that I get parahax or my opponent switches as I get another Nasty Plot up

Then it's just a matter of Air Slashing, flinching, and keeping it's health low enough to kill with Aura Sphere before is Softboils or Wish + Protects. If it's a Wish + Protect set, then I just get a final Nasty Plot up as it protects and deal massive damage.

The only problem I've had with it is getting paralyzed which pretty much renders it useless.

EDIT: Just changed my Gengar set, SubPainSplit had it's benefits but I like the current set a bit better.

 

[scarloc]

gargant is right (gargant remember me, but thats for another time, not here). you need life orbs. since it's HO, every pokemon is meant to simply die once a counter comes in. and another pokemon comes in once a pokemon dies, and set up on the switch, simple. no prediciton. so in that case, replace T-Wave on togekiss. i've read your description but it's won't be HO and bliss is taken out by ape. and even if you paralyze bliss, then what. if it switched iout, it'll be cured if running natural cure. if it stay, so what? it's slow anyway and it's 25% hax.
next, you need to take out bliss. can't stress it enough. even stockpile hippo can be a threat if it gets off 3 stocks. even ape and empoleon will have trouble. so i reckon sub pain split gar is better. sandstorm is fine as it speeds up the death, and it's immune to toxic.

 

[Forte.EXE]

Actually, I would like to suggest a set that was suggested to me for dealing with Blissey quickly. Substitute + Explosion Gengar.

|

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Hasty
EVs: 36 Atk | 220 SpA | 252 Spe

• Substitute
• Shadow Ball
• Focus Blast
• Explosion

I feel that this Gengar far more helpful against Blissey. It still keeps the advantage against Tyranitar and the like, while allowing it to keep the momentum going in your favor. What if it's about the third turn of your Reflect and Light Screen being up. You've got about four-five more turns to make them count. But now, your opponent's sent out Blissey to wall your Gengar. Now you're forced to go through the tedious stalling process of using Pain Split to drain Blissey's massive HP until you can Focus Blast it.

With Sub-Explosion Gengar though, as soon as Blissey comes in, you explode on it. Done, dead Blissey. I just noticed now that you already have changed your set to an Explosion Gengar set. What I don't understand is why you're running Protect over Substitute. You don't have Hidden Power [Fire] to defeat Scizor, and Choice Scarf Tyranitar can just Pursuit you regardless, and you'll still wind up OHKOed.

I'm also wondering if you'd be willing to change your Jolteon to a Zapdos. I know that sounds strange, but hear me out. A Zapdos with a Timid nature, no Speed EVs, will out-speed a +1 Salamence after an Agility, and OHKO a large part of the time (after Stealth Rock) with Thunderbolt. You no longer have a Starmie, and you shouldn't be switching that much in HO anyways. If you want to try Charge Beam, I would actually suggest Jirachi as opposed to Jolteon, because at least Jirachi has a 100% (90% after Accuracy) chance to gain a Special Attack boost. Anyways, here's the Zapdos set.

|

Zapdos @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP | 252 SpA | 4 Spe

• Agility
• Thunderbolt
• Heat Wave
• Hidden Power [Grass]

Also, with the addition of Zapdos, you don't have three members of your team weak to Ground-type attacks.

 

[Jukain-Arashi]

Zapdos is an intererting suggestion, but why 252 HP EVs and not max speed?

I'll test these out as soon as Shoddy is available for me again.

 

[ghetto blasta]

you could get walled by a special wall you have to many sp attackers ,but thats just me i would get a scizor admant technicain swords dacne roost brick break and bullet punch

 

[Forte.EXE]

Zapdos is an intererting suggestion, but why 252 HP EVs and not max speed?

I'll test these out as soon as Shoddy is available for me again.

You don't need Max Speed since, after an Agility, you hit 598 Speed with a Timid nature, no Speed EVs. Not much is going to be out-speeding that, so there's no point in running Speed EVs.

 

[Jukain-Arashi]

you could get walled by a special wall you have to many sp attackers ,but thats just me i would get a scizor admant technicain swords dacne roost brick break and bullet punch

That's kinda the point. It's a HO team, and all my pokemon work together to KO a common counter. In this case bulky waters + Blissey.

@TheShinyPidgey: Alright, I'll give it a go as soon as I can get on Shoddy.

 

[Jukain-Arashi]

Alright, did some testing today. SubExplosion Gengar's been doing really well, and I really like the added ground resist Zapdos gives the team. I will update the OP later today, after a few more tests. Thanks TheShineyPidgey!

 

[bubbly]

You shouldn't rely on Togekiss to take down Blissey, since even with +2 coming in the odds are fairly even. It HATES being paralysed, and paralysing Blissey back is almost worthless if its running Natural Cure. Especially without Roost

 

[ginganinja]

Icannot realy understand why you are not using Offensive Suicune over Empoleon. Sure you lose the huge water and steel resist Empoleon gives you however you can better make use of the screens when they are up. The main issue I feel with Empoleon is that it takes a few subs to get down to Torrent range and then to sweep. A smart opponient will send in a CM Wish Jirachi or a Suicune and wait out the turns Light Screen has by CMing up and then taking care of Empoleon Offensive SUicune gives you huge power after a CM and with Screens up it has a large amount of bulk to work with.

Have a Nice Day!.

 

[GaRgAnt]

I thought this was... Dead... But w/e.


But if you use Offensive Suicune, wouldn't you run into the same problems?

Empoleon is supposed to be the endgame sweeper of special HO; CM Jirachi with Wish will likely try and keep teammates alive with Wish in this situation and suffer multiple hits without being able to stay in and take the Wish. Infernape makes any CM Jirachi run for the hills once they see you use Nasty Plot.

And "huge amount of power after 1 CM"? Wha? 1.5 is a significant boost, but even after SR you still can't OHKO most Scizor after Stealth Rock...

Actually, I take that back, you have a 50% chance of KOing after Stealth Rock with Surf.

But wait! That's only with Life Orb!

Anything behind screens is bulky, but note that it's somewhat fake bulk. With no defense investment, any Suicune without Life Orb cannot OHKO Scizor with Surf before it U-turns for massive damage. Okay, not really, but Scizor will do around 55% with a Choice Band U-turn, and since it's U-turn Scizor will likely switch to something to finish the job without being forced to take a Surf (Remember, since this is a Choice Band variant we're talking about it will be slower).

 

[Doctor Who?]

Okay firstly you need Toxic Spikes on a team with an Empoleon finisher. It's practically a crime to not have Toxic Spikes on a team that both has an Empoleon sweeper and an Infernape to lure in bulky waters early game. So to some up, you need Toxic Spikes, and I suggest a Roserade lead >>> your current Azlef set, and if you do that you can use a Magma Storm Heatran w/Stealth Rock instead of Zapdos, nive Blissey lure as well, and there were too many set up sweepers and Zapdos benefits the least from Toxic Spikes support, plus if you use Heatran you have a Scizor counter without a sr weakness and a way of taking the obligatory fire attacks and Scizors that think Roserade is UTurn/Bullet Punch fodder.

Secondly just a move change on your Infernape. Focus Blast in my opinion is a better option in every way to Close Combat, I don't see why you wouldn't choose that as the better otion, it ohko Vappy, which is a lot of team's "counter" to Infernape. Also when you go for a sweep with Infernape and get a Nasty Plot up, the last thing you want to do is lower your defence with Close Combat, so that you don't have to worry about Scizor ending your sweep with Bullet Punch. Also, if you are running Close Combat for Blissey, which a special based team obviously has problems with, it isn't as important as you think. No Blissey has ever stayed in on Infernpae for fear of Close Combat, so you can get a Nasty Plot up if it switches out, and if it comes back in Focus Blast does 71.4% - 84% to Calm Mind 252HP/252S.DEF Bliss and after TS it practically kills it.

Lastly, Pain Split still works on Gengar because Gengar still beats Bliss 1 vs 1 with Focus Blast >>> Focus Punch. But Explosion still works wonders under other circumstances and you still beat Blissey albeit you kill yourself so it's up to you.


Hope I helped and gl with your team.

 

[Dracoflare]

Do you need both close combat and vacuum wave? Gyarados can come on infernape and set up.+1 gyara destroys most of your team. +1 stone edge does 134.4% - 158.3% to your zapdos and 126.7% - 149.2% to your togekiss which r the best ones that can try to stop gyarados.

 

[Schism]

I would recommend a sweeping shaymin set on smogon. I have played special Ho and seed flare is extremely helpful for special defense drops. A gyarados of stone edge/waterfall/earthquake could sweep this team with a dd. Shaymin could take a hit and whip back with seed flare. Also I recommend jolteon as he outspeeds adamant gyarados.