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Team Zoidberg Stall

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Oglemi, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. Oglemi

    Oglemi We broke it. Yes, we were naughty. Completely naughty.
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

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    Messages:
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    [​IMG]

    So, it had been a really long time since I played with full stall, and I figured I'd give it a shot again now that Honchkrow and Sharpedo were out of the tier. I absolutely detest laddering, mostly because I get sick of it after about 10 straight battles, but I did peak at about 1250 before tilting (which I'm proud of lol) and I know this is a good team since I can win consistently with it whenever I do get on the ladder. But, it is heavily flawed, which I figured I'd make my second RMT ever with it and see what the community can come up with to fix it.

    The inspiration for the team name comes from the pic above. Zoidberg is just cool, and Tangrowth kinda reminds me of Zoidberg, whom the team is heavily based around.

    Team at a Glance:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Also I'm not really one for words so the descriptions are going to be pretty short and sweet.

    The Cleric + Stealth Rock setter

    [​IMG]
    Uxie @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn
    - Psychic
    - Heal Bell

    Uxie does a couple things for the team. Firstly, it sets up Stealth Rock, which is the only form of entry hazards on team, keeping really dangerous threats such as Moltres and Scyther less of a threat. Beyond that though, SR isn't too important to the team since it doesn't rely on phazing, but more Toxic stalling and out-tanking the opponent. The second, and most important role that Uxie plays on the team is a cleric with Heal Bell. My team is super vulnerable to status, mostly to Toxic. So, if I see that the opponent may be carrying multiple forms of status I need to keep Uxie alive in order to get a Heal Bell off later so Tangrowth and Spiritomb can do what they need to do.

    Otherwise, Uxie is actually the least important member of the team and the one I'm most ready to part with. However, if I give up Uxie, I need another cleric to replace it. Also, I like Uxie's ability to stand as a stalwart to most of the Fighting-types in the tier (not named Gallade), being able to blast them out with Psychic when it comes down to it. Beyond that though Uxie is pretty replaceable.

    The Spinblocker

    [​IMG]
    Spiritomb (M) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Sucker Punch
    - Trick
    - Pursuit

    I love CB Spiritomb for a couple of reasons. Firstly, the strong priority that Spiritomb packs has saved me on more than one occasion. Secondly, being able to Trick the CB onto a wall is usually my only way of getting past other stall teams, especially against enemy Clefable. Thirdly, CB Tomb is my enemy Ghost killer, allowing Cryogonal to spin later in the battle without a hitch. The Speed EVs let Spiritomb outrun minimum Speed Dusknoir and below, smashing them with one of Tomb's STAB moves. Typically as soon as Cofag or Rotom come in I'll send out Tomb and click Pursuit. If they switch out they're basically dead, and if they do anything else, I'm still in an OK position since they're now forced to stay in. Life Orb versions of both are a bit tricky to handle, since they can both 2HKO Tomb, but if I get them with Sucker Punch, then they're basically dead and Spiritomb will have done his job of eliminating the threat (for the most part anyway).

    Spiritomb is also about my only real defense against SubBU Gallade, which can other sweep my team without much trouble, especially if Mandibuzz has taken some damage in the battle already. The only thing that sucks about CB Tomb is the damage from entry hazards and utter vulnerability he's left in if I mispredict a CB Sucker Punch.

    The Spinner

    [​IMG]
    Cryogonal @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic
    - Recover

    Cryogonal is a fantastic spinner and really quite underrated. The reason I chose Cryogonal is because it's a nice wall to strong BoltBeam attackers, namely Manectric (as long as I avoid Overheat), Galvantula, and Lanturn. Usually when I bring out Cryo my opponent will switch to their Ghost predicting a Rapid Spin, and that's when I nail them with Toxic. From there I switch out to Spiritomb to finish the job. If they switch in Rotom and I hit it with Toxic I'll usually stay in and go for the 2HKO with Ice Beam. I also love Cryo because he's immune to Spikes and TSpikes, which my team is otherwise pretty weak to, and I really needed a spinner that can get rid of them.

    As I said, Cryo is about my only real defense against strong Electric- and Ice-type attacks, forming an excellent core with the rest of the walls listed below, hence the full Special Defense EV spread. It's also nice being able to switch in Cryo against most of the Grass-types of the tier and threaten a OHKO or 2HKO against Grass-types. I've been thinking of running Haze somewhere since I have a bit of a Lilligant and Omastar weakness, but I'd have a real hard time replacing Toxic for it since it's so nice to nail the Ghosts with it. Thoughts here?


    The Big Bad Walls


    [​IMG]
    Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Big Pecks
    EVs: 248 HP / 244 SpD / 16 Spe
    Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
    - Taunt
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind
    - Brave Bird

    I'm not really sure what to do with Mandibuzz. It fills a really nice roll in being able to kinda combat SubBU Gallade, and it's my only real defense against Clefable who otherwise completely owns my team, but beyond that the role it fills isn't all that important. She also gives me extra Ice- and Electric-type weaknesses that the team could really do without. However, she has come in handy in being able to outstall the opponent when the going gets tough, and having Taunt handy on the team is a real godsend against opposing stall teams. She's also a nice roadblock to Lilligant if another team member is already asleep. Finally, she's an important part of the defensive core, taking most special attacks like a freaking beast, and forming a nice duo with Cryogonal and the physical walls.

    The thing that really irks me about Mandi though is that she's basically a free switch in for Steel-types, and I can't have that kind of pressure on a stall team. Granted, Alomomola and Tangrowth can handle most of the Steel-types in the tier, so it isn't that big of a deal, but it's something I'd really like to avoid with this team.

    [​IMG]
    Alomomola (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Hydration
    EVs: 36 HP / 252 Def / 220 SpD
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
    - Waterfall
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Toxic

    Alomomola is a really cool, and it does a couple of major things for the team, and the team definitely wouldn't be as good without it. Firstly, it's my hard counter to any Fire-type in the tier, bar Magmortar and LO HP Grass Moltres (but even Moltres isn't that big of a deal if I can get off a Wish). Secondly, Alomomola's Wishes are amazing, basically fully healing Spiritomb and Cryogonal. Most Pokemon that can take advantage of Alomomola hate Toxic, and is its only real weapon against much of the tier, since Waterfall is pretty weak (though it does do about 20% to most threats on average). The only suckish thing about Alom is that it's basically a free switch for Heal Bell Lanturn, as well as things like Clefable and Sigilyph. However, I'm not really willing to part with the big fish, too many times has it come down to just Alomomola and it's come out on top.

    It's also physical wall number one on the team. It's not quite bulky enough to switch into really strong attackers like CB Aggron (it takes about 60% from CB Head Smash) or Medicham, but most other physical attackers don't even come close to 2HKOing it, and the physical attackers that Alom can't take on, Tangrowth can with stride.

    [​IMG]
    Tangrowth (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Leech Seed
    - Sleep Powder

    Ahhh, my pride and joy. Tangrowth is pretty much the reason that team Zoidberg can even really work as all. The number of threats that Tangrowth just outright counters is amazing, from Aggron, Medicham, Aerodactyl, to Hitmonlee, all fall before Tangrowth. And the Fire-types that Tangrowth can't take on, especially Entei, Alomomola just eats alive. The set is simple, though I'm willing to shake up the second slot. Giga Drain serves as the token STAB move, and breaks the Substitute of just about any attacker in the tier uninvested (except for SubBU Gallade, which I'll get to). Leech Seed is also an awesome tool to let a teammate heal up some damage when Tangrowth needs to switch out. Sleep Powder is the ace in the hole, and lets me put a sweeping threat out of commission.

    I just haven't found much use for Hidden Power Fire, but it's such a nice tool to have against special attacking or SubSeed Sceptile, as well as stuff like Ferroseed and Whimsicott. But beyond that it doesn't fine much use, but I know that as soon as I get rid of it I'll miss it. Any suggestions for this slot?

    Finally, I've been thinking of dumping some EVs into Special Attack so that Tangrowth can break the Subs of SubBU Gallade, but I'm afraid to move any EVs away from Tangrowth's bulk, since I'm so reliant on him to take on Aggron and Medicham. Any thoughts here?



    Alright, well there's the team. Hope you liked it! I can't wait to hear what you guys have to say about it, and hopefully we can turn it into a really solid team with a couple of fixes.

    Threatlist:

    I'm lazy, so I'm only going to list the stuff that this team has major problems against in the threatlist:

    [​IMG] Clefable: Seriously screw this bitch. Mandibuzz is really my only defense against it, and that's only if it's the last poke and I can Taunt + BB it to death. Otherwise I need to somehow nail it with Trick from Spiritomb. Beyond that I don't have anything to kill her with, since my team relies on SR, Toxic, special attacks, and Leech Seed for most of its damage.

    [​IMG] Gallade: SubBU Gallade is the only real threat, SD and other variations I can somewhat handle with Alomomola and Tangrowth. But against SubBU I need to make sure that Spiritomb is at full health and take it down with CB Shadow Sneak, or get Mandibuzz in on Substitute and Taunt it before it gets too many Bulk Ups in. If both of those two are down then it's GG. I've been thinking of either running enough Speed EVs on Mandi in order to get the Taunt off on Gallade before it can BU, or run enough SpA EVs on Tangrowth so that he can break its Subs.

    [​IMG] Magneton: I can't even touch this sucker outside of HP Fire and Leech Seed on Tangrowth, or Trick with Spiritomb, which is probably the biggest hole in team. Major threat.

    [​IMG] Druddigon: Druddigon and the other Dragon-types aren't too threatening if I can get them with Toxic or force them into Outrage before they Dragon Dance (since Cryo can then easily take them out), but if they have Sub or Alomomola goes down, then they suddenly become far more threatening. I've been thinking of running HP Ice on Tangrowth because of them, but then that leaves my team even more exposed to Steel-types. Not too much of a threat, but still annoying.

    [​IMG] Lanturn: Lanturn is a medium threat. Most of its sets I can beat eventually, if I can get it with Toxic or KO it with Tangrowth. SubCharge Lanturn though is an absolute major threat, and it can easily 6-0 me if I don't get Tangrowth in quick enough, and even then it's usually GG.

    [​IMG] Qwilfish: Qwilfish is just annoying, since it can't do much to me, and I can't do much to it. However, it can get Spikes up against me pretty easily. My only real way of killing it is with Uxie, but that's only a 2HKO at best, and I can't really risk Uxie very often since it's my cleric. Luckily SD / Rain Dance Qwilfish is rare, otherwise it easily sweeps me.

    Team Importable (open)

    Uxie @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn
    - Psychic
    - Heal Bell

    Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Big Pecks
    EVs: 248 HP / 244 SDef / 16 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Taunt
    - Roost
    - Toxic
    - Brave Bird

    Spiritomb (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Sucker Punch
    - Trick
    - Pursuit

    Alomomola (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 36 HP / 252 Def / 220 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Waterfall
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Toxic

    Tangrowth (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Leech Seed
    - Sleep Powder

    Cryogonal @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic
    - Recover


    Rate away!
  2. Double01

    Double01 Hate it or love it the under dog's on top

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Messages:
    789
    Oglemi, I didn't know u played ru! :P But in all seriosness u definitely have a solid stall team. I am doing this on my phone so I'll give a much better ratesoon.

    First off ureally should keep hp fire on tangrowthelse u are going to get fucked by klinklang and magneton. Also maybe try WW over toxic on Mandi. This will help u with a ton of set up sweepers such as BU gallade and klinklang. Maybe if u tried a bulky spiritomb with WoW then this would really cripple physical attackers which would allow you to switch tangrowth for roselia. (But only switch tangrowth for roselia if u decide to run a bulky WoWtomb.) Roselia adds a ton of hazard support to your team as well as being an awesome special wall. But this is still quite risky because ur losing one of the best physical walls in ru. So the choice is up toyou.
  3. Molk

    Molk rip houndoom
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    RU Co-Leader

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    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
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    okay now for the full rate

    looking at the problems your team has plus another one you didnt mention (CB aggron is a major problem because it 2hkos even tangrowth ;_;) there are a few things you can do to patch them up

    as i said, mandibuzz's WW helps out a lot against boosting sweepers your team has issues with

    another way to stop these boosting sweepers is to run Haze on Cryogonal like you considered earlier, most of the ghosts are stopped by mandibuzz anyway so why not (and rotom loses eventually)

    525 Atk vs 383 Def & 404 HP (150 Base Power): 220 - 261 (54.46% - 64.60%) yes CB aggron 2hkos

    there is one pokemon that could really help out with the majority of threats you mentioned and that is Quagsire, who walls even CB aggron, takes on magneton and lanturn lacking Hp grass, and stops sub BU gallade cold as well, extremely underrated pokemon in this new metagame, it also helps out against qwilfish with its STAB earthquake. only problem is finding a teamslot for it, the best option would be to replace alomomola with quagsire, and use another pokemon to pass those wishes.

    a pokemon that would be suited to passing those wishes is Specially Defensive Clefable, who could also help out against omastar and LO moltres i guess, if you want to use clefable, i would recommend using it over uxie, plus it also learns stealth rock! so no issues here.

    now about heal bell, which most stall teams pretty much need, the best option would be to replace spiritomb with something not commonly seen that could help out a lot. Bulky Spinblocker Misdreavus, it has access to several utility moves such as taunt, will-o-wisp and Heal bell, in fact misdreavus is the only ghost type to learn heal bell! pain split is cool, but with wish support you may not need it, taunt misdreavus can deal with some stallbreakers well too! i say play around with misdreavus and various set combinations, but make sure to keep heal bell.

    Alternatively, because all you have is stealth rock and nothing like toxic spikes, you could get rid of a spinblocker altogether and add another cleric, but missy really helps against hitmonlee and stuff like that.

    tl;dr version

    Quagsire (or steelix) > alomomola

    spD clefable with stealth rock > uxie

    heal bell misdreavus > spiritomb

    haze on cryogonal

    WW on mandibuzz

    overall, for how hard it is to build stall in RU, i think you did a pretty good job :)

    optional changes: maybe power whip>giga drain on tangrowth? gives it a lot more power and beats the shit out of slowking even more than giga drain, also helps vs gallade
  4. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    Hey Oglemi! Nice stall team ^_^ Stall is pretty hard to make in RU, but this team looks solid. One thing I would suggest would be changing Spiritomb to a Calm Mind set. This will make it harder to be taken down, while also giving Spiritomb means of recovery outside of Wish. CM Tomb can also set up all over Clefable as well as Lanturn. Like Molk suggested your own Clefable could be worth a try instead of Uxie since Wish passing is really good on stall teams. Overall, good job with the team (also gj using Cryogonal and Mandibuzz :D).

    CM Spiritomb (open)
    Spiritomb (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Dark Pulse
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

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