1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Teambuilding 101 (Round 4: sweetjesus, Zebraiken, Cherub Agent)

Discussion in 'BW NU' started by DTC, Dec 26, 2012.

  1. The Quasar

    The Quasar
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,473
  2. Geoboy2000

    Geoboy2000

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    weather (excluding snover)
  3. Constantinipple

    Constantinipple

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Messages:
    112
    HURR DURR BALANCE
  4. Kyuss

    Kyuss

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2012
    Messages:
    10
  5. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    516
    Balance

    (I could build if builders needed, I'll probably be pretty busy until 10th of jan though)
  6. cbt

    cbt last
    is a Pokemon Researcher
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,395
    weather
  7. fryfrey

    fryfrey

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    169
  8. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    651
    Weather beeches
  9. citro

    citro

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2012
    Messages:
    120
    sunny day gurdurr????

    weather
  10. TerrickTerran

    TerrickTerran

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    456
  11. IceSpade

    IceSpade

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    227
  12. KryptoKrunch

    KryptoKrunch

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    31
  13. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,111
  14. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Messages:
    758
  15. Mysterious Trainer

    Mysterious Trainer

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    174
  16. buddhism

    buddhism

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    36
    Balance would be great
  17. Bluwing

    Bluwing

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2012
    Messages:
    682
  18. Manveru123

    Manveru123

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    204
  19. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,702
    Sorry I did not start this earlier. A certain user was taking a while to respond...

    24 Balance
    13 Weather

    Balance wins by a landslide! I probably fucked up in counting somewhere around the line but it doesn't matter anyways because balance clearly wins.

    The builders for this round are sweetjesus, Zebraiken, and Cherub Agent~
  20. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent ium and me <3
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,071
    Alright, I'm going to use this post as a starting block for my team.

    Strange as it may sound, I've played NU for a long, long time but have never used Braviary. I was always put off by its lowish Speed, and mostly chose Swellow if I wanted a Flying-type. This was always on fast-paced offensive teams though, so Swellow would be impractical as a starting point on a balanced team. A while ago, Bulk Up Braviary received a lot of hype from my fellow NUers. My goal with this team is twofold: to test it out myself and perhaps more importantly, to see how it fares in this new Hail metagame. With vicious threats such as Frotom and Glaceon lurking around, I'd be surprised if I manage to pull this off successfully. I hypothesize that Braviary will need a fair amount of support to work at the moment, chief among these a way for me to change the weather, as Braviary really needs its Leftovers recovery. So here's my first Pokemon:

    [​IMG]
    Braviary @ Leftovers
    Trait: Defiant
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 SDef / 80 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Roost
    - Bulk Up
    - Brave Bird
    - Substitute

    Oh yeah and feel free to contact me with suggestions! I'm pretty sure I don't neccessarily have to do this completely alone (do I DTC? I mean the thread's purpose IS teambuilding, and I find cooperation the most efficient way) and I'll be sure to credit you. I've always found two or more heads to be better than one when teambuilding (I've probably annoyed ENOUGH people on IRC by asking them if they want to build teams with me :P) so that's my little tip for you as a starter. Make some friends on Smogon, and thrash out a couple of ideas, brainstorm, whatever. One of you is sure to pick up on threats to your team that the other may have missed, and it results in a better end product. And did I mention that teambuilding is also simply more fun when doing it together? :)

    EDIT: ohoho. With Hail now gone, Braviary is gonna be LETHAL. Cinccino was also incredibly threatening for it with Rock Blast, but now that she's no longer with us, Braviary will really have an easier time sweeping. Boy am I glad I chose this as my starting point...
  21. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent ium and me <3
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,071
    Excuse the double post, but the previous one was just introductory on what I intended to do. Kinda irrelevant now though since Hail is no longer with us... on the plus side Braviary will be far more effective. Anyway, I guess I'll go into the teambuilding process. But first of all I want to give big thanks to Agent Dell for being a huge help with the teambuilding process. You had some brilliant ideas mate, and I'm sure that the team wouldn't be the same without you help. Thanks a lot :D
    [​IMG]


    So anyway, as previously stated, I decided to start off with Braviary. With the lack of Hail and Cinccino, Braviary was an excellent focal point, and I needed to find ways to support it. My first thought was: what's left in the tier that can actually threaten Braviary? Agent Dell and I quickly came to the conclusion: Electric types. Specifically Rotom-S, as not only is it faster than Braviary, it has the bulk to take multiple Brave Birds and OHKO. Other Electric mons such as Eelektross, Zebstrika, Electrode and Electabuzz aren't AS problematic, as they're either frail enough to be hurt by Brave Bird, or slow enough that Roost can remove Braviary's Flying-type, and thus his weakness to their STAB moves. Nevertheless, I decided that I wanted a solid switchin to Electric-types, and since Roselia just dropped, we figured why not give her a go?
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Roselia gave us a nice switchin to Electric moves, and a lovely special tank. Spikes are also a godsend for Braviary, as most of his problem Pokemon are grounded. Next, we were kinda stuck thinking of a next Pokemon, so we turned to theorymoning the upcoming metagame. With Hail and Absol gone, we hypothesized that Musharna would be an incredibly dominating Pokemon in the tier. We thought about what could bring her down, and we immediately thought of Skuntank. However, I felt that I'd used Skuntank too much in my previous NU career, so I wanted something different. The problem was finding a Pokemon that can deal horrific damage to Musharna and have good synergy with my previous two Pokemon. I decided on Choice Band Golurk, for a couple of reasons. One, it already has lovely defensive synergy with Braviary. Two, it has lovely synergy with Spikes, spinblocking them and more importantly abusing them. With entry hazards, Golurk has a far better chance of bringing Musharna down with a single Shadow Punch.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Now it's fairly obvious what issue my team has: it's incredibly weak to Ice. It was absolutely crucial that my next Pokemon resist Ice. I wanted something that could take physical hits well, and act as a nice offensive pivot at the same time. I decided that I also wanted to fit Stealth Rock into this slot, so that I didn't end up slapping it on some random Pokemon towards the end. It's fairly obvious who my next Pokemon was going to be. Piloswine was something else that I had never personally used extensively, but I heard that a lot of players were praising it. Like Braviary, I wanted to see if it would live up to its hype.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    This team was already starting to look pretty balanced. I had most of the things that I was already looking for in a solid balanced team: entry hazards, a spinblocker, a powerful offensive wallbreaker, a slow, bulky and deadly setup sweeper, priority, etc. My next thought to be honest was mainly to try and alleviate my Ice weakness a bit. Then I thought that I'd like a secondary setup sweeper, as well as a more solid bird check. I expressed these thoughts to Agent Dell, and I was already thinking Klang, since it's a Pokemon that I haven't used for a very long time. But then Agent Dell piped up with Carracosta. I decided why the hell not? I'd only ever used the tank Carracosta set, and was curious to try the dreaded Shell Smasher for myself. the nice meaty Fire resist was nice as well, otherwise Rapidash may have started to look troublesome for my team had I decided on Klang.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Something that I have to carry on every single team of mine is a Choice Scarfer. I love having the ability to revenge kill boosted threats. I brainstormed a bit with my teambuilding partner, and we decided that a nice fast Electric-type would benefit our team. I initially thought Zebstrika as it was another Pokemon that I'd never tried out before, but Agent Dell turned it down, informing me that it was really weak, and besides, we no longer needed the extra Speed for outrunning Cinccino. He had me convinced, as I want my revenge killer to pack a bit of a punch as well, and 80 base SpA just didn't cut it. Next I thought Rotom-S. It was a Pokemon that I'd used many, many times to great success, but I don't think Agent Dell was convinced. So I threw out Electabuzz as a last option, and he seemed pretty enthusiastic about the idea. It's understandable too, as Electabuzz can switch in and out more so than Rotom-S as it doesn't carry that Stealth Rock weakness. Vital Spirit was also a cool ability. I might have preferred Rotom-S, because even though it gave me another Ice weakness and was weak to SR, it was an excellent choice at fending off opposing Gurdurr, which is such an excellent Pokemon that I'm always afraid of it. We don't have a Psychic-type to take it out, and Braviary is neutral to Gurdurr's STAB, so I'll have to see. Meanwhile, I'll test Electabuzz, and if it doesn't work out I'll just switch to Rotom-S.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Here's the importable of the team:
    Show Hide
    Golurk @ Choice Band
    Trait: Iron Fist
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 104 Spd / 152 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Punch
    - Shadow Punch
    - Drain Punch

    Carracosta @ Splash Plate
    Trait: Solid Rock
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Aqua Jet
    - Shell Smash
    - Waterfall
    - Stone Edge

    Piloswine @ Eviolite
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 248 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Stealth Rock
    - Icicle Spear

    Braviary (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Defiant
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 Spd / 176 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Bulk Up
    - Substitute
    - Roost

    Roselia @ Eviolite
    Trait: Natural Cure
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Rest
    - Spikes
    - Sludge Bomb

    Electabuzz @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Focus Blast
    - Thunderbolt
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]



    So there you go, that's how I'd make a balanced team in this meta. I hope it was useful to the newer players, and while I've only played three matches with it (only challenges mind you, as PS! hasn't updated with Roselia yet) I've won them all. Ludicolo is a nasty bugger though, as he can 2HKO Roselia. Be sure not to switch her in on an Ice Beam, otherwise you've probably lost. Sludge Bomb can kill Ludicolo after SR, Spikes and LO recoil though. If you Poison it, all the better. If not, you'll have sacked Roselia but can revenge kill the crippled bastard with Ice Shard from Piloswine.
  22. The Quasar

    The Quasar
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,473
    I want to study your building strategy and then try to use this interesting team. It has its focus around one of the most dangerous pokemon in NU, Braviary.
    Thanks a lot.
  23. Tyrano

    Tyrano

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2010
    Messages:
    86
    I have tested it a bit and I have found it terrible weak to fighting pokes. Bulk up Gurdurr can destroy the entire team, you can only revenge kill it with Braviary, which you may want to save to the late game. Ironically, you need a fighting poke or a strong fighting move, Miltank for example is hard to defeat because of that, you could change stone edge for drain punch on Golurk.
    I don't see Carracosta fitting in the team, it's hard to find where to use shell smash, so most of the time it does nothing. And I don't like Electrabuzz, I see Rotom-s a lot more useful.

    To sum up, I would change Carracosta for a physical tank, drain punch instead stone edge on Golurk and Rotom-s instead Electrabuzz.
  24. Constantinipple

    Constantinipple

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2012
    Messages:
    112
    he already mentioned that he was weak to Gurdurr, and that he might switch electabuzz for rotom-s. also, its not an rmt so if you find other pokes working better on the team, you can do it for yourself
  25. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    516
    Sorry for being slow, I'm pretty busy and each time I have a good team I wonder if I should not keep it for spl.

    I'm going ot build this team like I build most of my balanced team, by starting off with a 3 mon defensive core and patching weaknesses with more offensively oriented mons.

    I've always wanted to try a defesnsive core with amoonguss and metang since together they wall pretty much every physical attacker in the tier bar fire types. The tier shifts were a two sided blade in a way since they banned emboar, the most dangerous flare blitz user but they also banned amoonguss, an essential member of the core.

    I decided to recycle the idea with tangela since it does a similar job and is an awesome mon I've always loved.

    [​IMG]
    Tangela @ Eviolite
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
    Bold Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Leech Seed
    - Sleep Powder

    Tangela is my main physical wall and can bring minor recovery to the team with leech seed. It's access to sleep powder is always a great plus and can help put to sleep incoming roselias that could want to set up for free on it or threaten it with sludge bomb. Giga drain is the main stab and I prefer hp ice over hp rock to hit those that are immune to leech seed. Although I'm giving a free switch-in to fire types that threaten my core, I will patch this up later on with a mon to take on rapidash and special fire types.

    [​IMG]
    Metang @ Eviolite
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 Atk / 236 HP / 20 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Meteor Mash
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - Stealth Rock

    Metang is my secondary wall that set's stealth rock. It takes on choiced braviary zangoose, swellow and non-EQ ursaring like nothing else in NU and has enough attack to not be a sitting duck. Metang will also bring support on the specialy defensive side since he can take on many psychic types (including musharna thanks to higher toxic pp than heal bell) as well as articuno which is never an easy thing to cover.

    I then needed a main specialy defensive wall. Since I had nothing to take on status and wanted to take advantage of what metang already checked, I decided to opt for throh who brings more variety being simultaneously a wall and a set up sweeper (which is the point of a balanced team)

    [​IMG]
    Throh (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Bulk Up
    - Circle Throw
    - Ice Punch
    - Rest

    Throh has an impressive special defence, has guts and can sometimes pull off a sweep once his counters are down. Both of his weaknesses are covered by metang but some pokes like charizard can break both making me really weak to fire types in general. I'm also concerned by his lack of reliable recovery since rest is not too reliable sometimes but I have a plan to patch this up.

    Now comes the time to identify my weaknesses and patch up the core with offensive mons that stand out.

    Here are some things that stood out to me as threatening:

    -ludicolo/seismitoad/swanna
    -cholorophyl eggy
    -sub BU brav
    -volt switch
    -garbodor and roselia
    -charizard/magmar/simisear
    -rapidash
    -offensive sap sipper miltank

    Roselia and garbodor concerned me a lot because I can not play around them for too long since they will lay spikes.

    [​IMG]
    Gardevoir @ Life Orb
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    - Psychic
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Healing Wish

    For this reason, I decided to choose a LO gardevoir set. Gardevoir will not only threaten and ohko both, but is also extremly hard to switch in and can cause massive damage to anything but skuntank meaning the opponent will often have to sacrifice something if he wants to keep his spiker alive. Gardevoir also has 2 nice perks that will highly help me defeat some of my biggest threats. Trace will help copy weather sweepers ability's letting me hit them with a powerful psychic or shadow ball (eggy). The other nice thing about gardevoir is that it can choose a random move from it's great movepool as a filler. In this case I will choose healing wish since I feel like both metang and throh could need some reliable recovery (especially metang who walls a shitload of stuff but often dies to quick since he's a good switch-in on so many pokes). Finaly, gardevoir also brings some nice support when it comes to taking special attacks and killing musharna before it sets up.

    Now I really needed stuff with speed, but there's still some things I need to cover and so eviolite elecabuzz came to my mind.

    [​IMG]
    Electabuzz @ Eviolite
    Trait: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Toxic

    Eviobuzz takes on every singler volt switcher pretty well since none of them tend to carry hp ground. It can also retaliate with it's own volt switch and works pretty well against sub bulk up braviary. It can also support on the specially defensive side (my weaker defence) letting it come in and outspeed most charizard varaints and swanna. Electabuzz also outspeeds miltank which is nice although it won't be doing enough. I decided to run max speed to reach the speed tie with rapidash just in case. Electabuzz also helps take on sleep powder, the only status inducing move that throh doesn't want to take.

    In the last spot, I was searching for something that could take on offensive miltank, rapidash and have piority since my team doesn't have any yet. A nice attack stat could be nice since my team lacks that too.

    [​IMG]
    Carracosta (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk
    Jolly Nature
    - Shell Smash
    - Waterfall
    - Stone Edge
    - Aqua Jet

    This is the moment where my weird custom sets are usualy created since I rarely find a standard set that fit's the niche I need. I finaly came up choosing smashcosta and using solid rock to take the possible wild charge. The weird part is I chose to use an air balloon. This will let me set up on miltank and fire off 2 waterfalls and hopefully try to sweep from there. Air balloon will not only serve against miltank however, I'm sure it will give plenty of extra oppurtunitys to carracosta to set up on stuff such as pillowswine or marowak. I will run a jolly set since it will let me outspeed important threats that use earthquake such as tauros and miltank. Running jolly is also much better now that cinccino is out of the tier. Gardevoir can also give a free switch to carracosta with healing wish to help him sweep properly.


    I don't really have time to test the team but I trust my teambuilding skills enough to say it's decent at least.

    EDIT: FLCL suggested using 48 sp.d EV's on electabuzz to survive +2 gorebyss surf after SR since it completely ravages this team. You can adopt this change if you feel concerned, you currently survive the surf if stealth rocks are not up. I also forgot some 4 EV's on a couple of pokes but I'm too lazy to change it so do it yourself :D

    importable:
    Show Hide

    Tangela @ Eviolite
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
    Bold Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Leech Seed
    - Sleep Powder

    Throh (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Bulk Up
    - Circle Throw
    - Ice Punch
    - Rest

    Metang @ Eviolite
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 Atk / 236 HP / 20 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Meteor Mash
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - Stealth Rock

    Gardevoir @ Life Orb
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    - Psychic
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Healing Wish

    Carracosta (M) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk
    Jolly Nature
    - Shell Smash
    - Waterfall
    - Stone Edge
    - Aqua Jet

    Electabuzz @ Eviolite
    Trait: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Toxic

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)