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Tentacruel

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Colonel M, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    [​IMG]
    Tentacruel

    This Pokemon actually has a lot of new toys to discuss about, I'd say. Let's take a gander at what Tentacruel got for buffs (or maybe even nerfs!)
    Code:
    #73 - Tentacruel
    Type - Water / Poison
    
    BST
    
    80 HP
    70 Atk
    65 Def
    80 SpA
    120 SpD
    100 Spe
    
    [b]Abilities[/b]
    
     Clear Body
       Tentacruel isn't affected by moves such as 
    Screech or Intimidate abilityfrom the opponent.
    
     Liquid Ooze
      If a Pokemon restores HP by sapping from
    Tentacruel's, they will lose HP instead.
    
     Rain Dish - [i]Dream World Exclusive[/i]
       Heals 1/16th of max HP in the rain.
    
    [b]Moves (Note: Grouping everything as best as I can)[/b]
    
    Isshu Level Up:
    
    Lv1: Poison Sting
    Lv1: Supersonic
    Lv1: Constrict
    Lv5: Supersonic
    Lv8: Constrict
    Lv12: Acid
    [b]Lv15: Toxic Spikes[/b]
    Lv19: Bubblebeam
    Lv22: Wrap
    [b]Lv26: Acid Bomb[/b]
    Lv29: Barrier
    Lv34: Water Pulse
    [b]Lv38: Poison Jab[/b]
    Lv43: Screech
    [b]Lv47: Evil Eye
    Lv52: Hydro Pump
    Lv56: Sludge Wavep[/b]
    Lv61: Wring Out
    
    3rd Gen Move Tutors
    
    Double-edge
    Mimic
    
    4th Gen Move Tutors
    
    [b]Icy Wind
    Knock Off[/b]
    Snore
    [b]Magic Coat[/b]
    Role Play
    
    4th Gen TMs
    
    TM03 - Water Pulse
    TM06 - Toxic
    TM07 - Hail
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM13 - Ice Beam
    TM14 - Blizzard
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM17 - Protect
    TM18 - Rain Dance
    [b]TM19 - Giga Drain[/b]
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM27 - Return
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM36 - Sludge Bomb
    TM42 - Facade
    TM43 - Secret Power
    TM44 - Rest
    TM45 - Attract
    TM46 - Thief
    [b]TM55 - Brine[/b]
    TM58 - Endure
    TM66 - Payback
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM75 - Swords Dance
    TM78 - Captivate
    [b]TM82 - Sleep Talk[/b]
    TM83 - Natural Gift
    TM84 - Poison Jab
    TM87 - Swagger
    TM90 - Substitute
    
    5th Gen TMs
    
    [b]TM06 - Toxic[/b]
    TM07 - Hail
    [b]TM09 - Venom Shock
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM13 - Ice Beam
    TM14 - Blizzard[/b]
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM17 - Protect
    TM18 - Rain Dance
    [b]TM20 - Safeguard[/b]
    TM21 - Frustration
    [b]TM27 - Return[/b]
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM34 - Sludge Wave
    [b]TM36 - Sludge Bomb[/b]
    TM42 - Facade
    [b]TM44 - Rest[/b]
    TM45 - Attract
    TM46 - Thief
    TM48 - Troll
    [b]TM55 - Boiling Water[/b]
    TM66 - Payback
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    [b]TM75 - Swords Dance[/b]
    TM84 - Poison Jab
    TM87 - Swagger
    TM90 - Substitute
    HM01 - Cut
    [b]HM03 - Surf
    HM05 - Waterfall[/b]
    HM06 - Dive
    
    Breeding (*s are Gen 5 Exclusive)
    
    Aurora Beam
    Mirror Coat
    [b]Rapid Spin
    Haze
    Confuse Ray
    Knock Off[/b]
    Acupressure
    Muddy Water
    Bubble
    Aqua Ring*
    Tickle*
    
    Quick Briefing of The New Moves
    
    Acid Bomb - 
    Type: Poison
    Special
    Power: 40
    Accuracy: 100
    
    Moves that sharply lowers the opponent's
    Special Defense.  (100%?)
    
    Evil Eye -
    Type: Ghost
    Special
    Power: 50
    Accuracy: 100
    
    Move that doubles in base power if the
    opponent is affected by a status.
    
    Sludge Wave -
    Type: Poison
    Special
    Power: 95
    Accuracy: 100
    
    Just think of a Poison-type Surf.
    
    Boiling Water - 
    Type: Water
    Special
    Power: 80
    Accuracy: 100
    
    30% Chance to inflict a burn
    ...Yeah, there is quite a bit of an expansion pack for Tentacruel, believe it or not. Rain Dish isn't noteworthy, so for the most part all of the Gen 3-4 stuff is fairly compatible with Gen 5 stuff, aside from Egg Moves and the like (note that Tentacruel had Rapid Spin in Gen 3 and Knock Off was a Move Tutor, for example). Let's run down the new and old stuff.

    [Tentacruel At a Glance]
    • Boiling Water. This move is a big blessing for Tentacruel, and a mix of a "might not be as good". Boiling Water inflicts a burn 30% of the time, which helps Tentacruel's survival in general. The problem? It could conflict with Toxic Spikes, but Tentacruel does not always have to be a hazard bringer. To be fair, it is likely a better spinner in Generation 5 now because it outspeeds a new Ghost-type, which will be expanded on later.
    • Evil Eye. Let's expand on this one. It's a 50 Base Power Ghost-type move that doubles if the opponent is under a status condition. Let's think about this for a moment: who is the best type to block Rapid Spin? Elementary, my dear, it is Ghost-types! This means, so long as you are able to inflict status upon the Ghost-type, you have access to an attack that has 200 base power, with calculated super effective damage on this. With Boiling Water and Toxic Spikes at Tentacruel's disposal, forcing the Ghost-type under a status shouldn't be difficult.
    • Giga Drain buff. This is minor, but 10 PP / 75 BP makes it a viable move. At least it helps versus Swampert and gives it access to an okay recovery move.
    • Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin. Tentacruel was always noteworthy of being a Pokemon that bring entry hazards as well as spinning them out. While it is not immune to Spikes and takes neutral Stealth Rock damage, it naturally absorbs Toxic Spikes, which makes it unique as a Rapid Spinner.
    • Lack of Offensive Stats. Let's face it: Tentacruel is not really a great attacking Pokemon. It's 70 Atk | 80 SpA is pretty under par; especially in comparison to many of its Water-type brethren. The best way it can even come close to being an "offensive" threat is either hitting Pokemon for Super Effective damage, Acid Bomb, or Swords Dance.
    • 4 Moveslot Syndrome. If only we could have a set like Rapid Spin / Toxic Spikes / Acid Bomb / Boiling Water / Ice Beam / Hidden Power Fire / Sludge Wave. Unfortunately that is just impossible.

    [Possible Movesets]

    SET
    name: Rapid Spin
    move 1: Rapid Spin
    move 2: Boiling Water
    move 3: Evil Eye / Toxic Spikes
    move 4: Ice Beam / Sludge Wave / Giga Drain
    item: Leftovers
    Restiunno

    Well... it's got a lot of move options. Not always is Tentacruel needed to lay Toxic Spikes, but as always is an option. I'd consider Evil Eye though; being able to target Ghost-types is very handy to have on a Spinner. Consider the Ghost-type Pokemon that have Levitate at the moment:

    - Gengar
    - Mismagius
    - Giratina-O
    - Drifblim
    - Rotom

    Rotom and Drifblim are unlikely in OU, and I'm thinking Giratina-O vs. Tentacruel isn't going to happen. Hell, I'd assume Drifblim and Rotom before Giratina-O. If you're catching the pattern here; they're somewhat frail. Mismagius is probably the bigger threat, and the same with Gengar due to their Speed. They're not really great choices for Spinblocking though due to their overall frailness.

    The only Spinblocker that will pose trouble for Tentacruel will likely be Spiritomb. I guess Sableye also counts to some extent. Evil Eye will ~3HKO to the "current" standard Dusknoir (remember: stuff can change over time). Sadly you'd have to catch Dusknoir on the switch in order to KO it with Evil Eye, and it would have to be rather weakened out. Toxic Spikes or a burn will help with that.

    The biggest niche it has is that, aside from Gengar and Mismagius, he outspeeds the Ghosts. Another reason this is important? There's a couple new spin blockers in town, one that potentially wrecks Forretress thanks to its Fire-typing. It also can take on the Ground / Ghost Pokemon thanks to its Water-type STAB being unaffected. Burungeru is probably Tentacruel's bigger threats, but with Toxic Spikes on the field it should be easier to take down. The problem? Burungeru could come down on the first layer of Toxic Spikes, which means that it could possibly beat down Tentacruel without major worry.

    This is pretty much the only set that gets a major change. Rest Talk will virtually remain untouched; the difference is that Tentacruel will exercise Boiling Water over Surf, which is obviously a good idea. Acid Bomb could get practice with Life Orb, but offensive Tentacruel's aside from Swords Dance aren't a great idea. Even then, Swords Dance Tentacruel lost some of its edge now. Burungeru resists both of Tentacruel's STABs and Return, which makes it awkward to sweep on. In fact, it's actually immune to Water + Normal.

    So Tentacruel has a lot of cool things... and a lot of bad things to discuss about this Generation. Let's see what the crowd has to say about this Pokemon in general!
  2. Buckles

    Buckles

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    I really like Tenta this gen. Boiling Water/Evil Eye/Giga Drain/Rapid Spin beats all ghosts if they switch into BW, and Giga Drain can beat Burunkeru/Swampert as well as providing good recovery. I don't think Tenta has changed for the better as much as the meta has changed to accommodate him. With Perma-Rain and Sun (Tenta slows them all down), Shanderaa and new Ghosts for him to EE, I really like how he looks this time around.
  3. Shimrit As

    Shimrit As

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    Tentacruel will likely have to invest much more into speed this generation, possibly even going 252 with Timid. Anyway, I would definitely use Ice Beam on Tentacruel because it can switch in on Sazando and threaten it - in fact it outspeeds all the dragons introduced this generation so it would be pretty useful. Boiling Water | Ice Beam/Sludge Wave | Evil Eye | Rapid Spin could establish Tentacruel has a pretty useful bulky water, being able to counter mixed Blaziken pretty well and dealing with the host of new Leech Seed + Giga Drain users this generation between Liquid Ooze and Ice Beam/Slude Wave.
  4. The Messiah

    The Messiah

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    i think all the old sp def bulky waters that can learn boiling water will be staying for another gen,

    this gen does have a lot more potent attackers with 7 with 135+ in attack and only 3 135+ sp attackers, < all the sp attackers seem to be stuck at 125 with a lot of new arrangements in bulk, they are all psychich types though so i dunno how tentacruel will cope with them

    boiling water will cut a lot of the pure phy attackers down to size very quickily,

    i dont know if tentacruel will be able to cut it, if it can come in safely on an attack then outspeed and kill, there are surely better pokes for the job?
  5. UltiMario

    UltiMario

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    I'm thinking that Tentacruel can get pretty insane on Rain Teams now with his new access to Rain Dish, making him bulkier than ever.

    I'm seeing maybe a bulky Rain set with...
    Boiling Water
    Giga Drain
    Toxic Spikes/Ice Beam/Evil Eye
    Rapid Spin

    Boiling Water gets Double STAB in rain and burns, Giga Drain deals with other Water Types looking to abuse the rain, TSpikes/Ice Beam/Evil Eye is all up to preference, and Rapid Spin is Rapid Spin :p
  6. Delko

    Delko was a tab-made man
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    Venom Shock is also a decent option on Tentacruel.
    Calculating in STAB it has a base power of 195 on a statused opponent so it works greatly with Toxic Spikes.
  7. min min

    min min

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    Sorry, but Sludge Wave do what?

    Haven't seen much coverage on it lately.
  8. RaRaRabbit

    RaRaRabbit

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    Uhm. You have evil eye listed because you want to get rid of spin blockers?

    Wait, unless I missed something, wasn't it proven that ghosts no longer stop the rapid spin effect of getting rid of hazards? I mean, I could be crazy, but I am pretty sure that is the case now in gen 5.



    Aside from that, I really like that acid bomb move (the 40bp move that lowers enemies special defense 2 stages). If I were acid bombed as I switched in something to counter Tentacruel, I would just feel super silly. And I would HOPE that I would kill him off before I got hit for lots of surf damage.
  9. Forsety

    Forsety

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    Its simply a poison version of the elemental beams, slightly higher base power than Sludge Bomb but less chance of poison.

    Anyway my personal opinion was always that the average Hazard Tentacruel was always a huge crying shame as its not the only thing it can do. Tenta always had huge potential as a wallbreaker too without sacrificing his ability to Rapid Spin and I think it could be adapted.

    SET
    name: Druidcruel
    Liquid Ooze
    move 1: Poison Jab
    move 2: Swords Dance
    move 3: Hydro Pump
    move 4: Sub / Rapid Spin
    item: Black Ooze

    This set has stood the test of time being very much usuable over the course of 3 generations. Liquid Ooze also makes Tentacruel a good counter to the many leech seed users out there.

    Poison/Water allows for a very versatile attacking combination and Hydro Pump is usually needed to compensate for the extra power to score many 2HKO's. Rapid Spin is an option however if you desperately need to be able to clear hazards but does diminish its socuting ability abit.


    SET
    name: Druidcruel (Gen 5 Ver.)
    Liquid Ooze
    move 1: Acid Bomb
    move 2: Sub / Sludge Wave
    move 3: Surf / Hydro Pump / Boiling Water
    move 4: Rapid Spin
    item: Black Ooze

    One new toy Cruel received this gen however is in Acid Bomb a poison attack which has a -2 s.def debuff on it. The great thing is it opens the possibilities of a pure special based Cruel, it still has the same ability of breaking walls apart but being able to save EV's from other areas. Its basically the same idea as normal Druidcruel but reversed, honestly very little can withstand those big STAB hits with a -2 s.def.
  10. Raikaria

    Raikaria

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    Tentacruel was always 'Meh' in my veiw back in Gen 4. It countered Infernape, set up some hazards, and generally died without Wish Support.

    Now, in Gen 5, Tentacruel poses a genuine threat as well as support. Let's not forget walling Blaziken too.

    Venom Shock - I'm astounded there's not been much said about this. Venom Shock is an excellent attack on a poisioned foe, it's Base Power nearing Selfdestruct, which isn't to be scoffed at. Bearing in mind Tentacruel sets up T-Spikes, and has an impressive Base 100 Speed, and he could actually deal some real damage with this.

    Acid Bomb: Also slightly shocking. Come in on something that dosen't like it [Blaziken], Acid Bomb the ineviatable counter. At - 2 Sp.Def, Tentacruel will HURT.

    Evil Eye: Middle finger to any non-levitateing Ghosts that want to spinblock if T-Spikes are up.

    Boiling Water - Tetacruel can handle physical attackers better now as well.


    Tentacruel has gotten even better in Gen 5, and should be able to withstand the Power Creep... and then some.

    I might go to my 4th Gen games and breed a Tentacruel ready for the English release of B/W. I'm looking foward to this.
  11. Crystic

    Crystic

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    Not that much talk of Rain Dish? With Leftovers and PermaRain that's adding 1/8 to your health every turn. I think it's better than Liquid Ooze/Clear Body.
  12. RaRaRabbit

    RaRaRabbit

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    I agree, I really like the addition of rain dish. Raindish + black sludge is nice health regen, and pair that up with giga drain, and you got one heck of bulky player.

    Maybe something like...

    Rain Dish
    Black Sludge
    Calm/Bold
    252 EV's in HP, and split the rest into Def or Sp.Def?
    Gigadrain
    Acid Bomb/Raindance
    boiling water
    Protect/Rapid Spin

    Healing 1/8th per turn. Gigadrain for extra drain tankage. Acidebomb for surprising switch ins to hit with a stronger Gigadrain. Boiling Water for burn support for extra bulk+stab. Protect for stalling a turn for the heal. Rapid spin is just because its a nice support tool.

    I also put Raindance on there as a possibility, just in case they try changing the weather on you. Besides, in a rain dance team, it cant be a bad idea to have one raindancer just in case the politoad dies.

    (Edit: Just realized he can also run Aquaring, which is definitely a possible rout.)


    Now, if only he could run taunt... He could almost be like the rains version of Walrein. Is it possible he could stall 32 turns like him? Of course, this has to be done with the use of toxic spikes too, seeing as rain doesnt chip away at health...
  13. PooF

    PooF

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    I have never really considered Tentacruel for a slot on a team seriously tbh, but after being disappointed by Rapid Spin Starmie this gen (it just cannot break through Burunkeru like it could through Rotom-A) i might give this a try. Between toxic spikes, giga drain and evil eye, Tentacruel can easily defeat Burunkeru, who will probably be premier spin blocker. Starmie cannot break through it as thunderbolt is just too weak. Foretress will also fail if it gets burned (and almost all burunkeru carry will o wisp or at least boiling water). Tentacruel's water stab also allows her to defeat Goruggo and Shanderra, other 2 notable ghosts this gen. I can definetly see rapid spinning as Tentacruel's biggest niche this gen.
  14. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed king
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    I have never, ever heard of this. Game Freak actually made Ghosts better, as now Brick Break doesn't break screens if it hits a Ghost-type. Lol.
  15. RaRaRabbit

    RaRaRabbit

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    I am almost positive I read it on a thread somewhere on smogon. But after I looked through the research thread to make sure I wasn't going crazy, I saw no indication of that research. So, uh... oops?

    I realize I got it wrong now. Although it doesn't make me happy. I hate SR with a passion, as I feel like its gamefreaks way of shutting down 50% of the pokemon in the game, (that is, with out rapid spin supporters like tentacruel).
    When I read that ghosts cant spin block anymore, I got really excited.
  16. TacoBot

    TacoBot

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    It's the Aiming Mark. At first, it was thought to allow the holder to hit through immunities. After testing, it only removes immunities on the holder (i.e. only useful when Tricked).
  17. Murkglow

    Murkglow

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    If you're going to have a Rain team (and want to run Tentacruel on it) then sure it is very nice. The reason Liquid Ooze is used so much though is Tentacruel works very well on non-rain teams as well and there are even more Leech Seeders running around now (Erufuun and the Steel/Grass guy to name two new ones) plus with Giga Drain's boost this gen that will likely be the default special Grass move (replacing Energy Ball but maybe not replacing Grass Knot).

    Anyway I still like Tentacruel as a great special wall/utility poke. It has a number of semi-rare moves that might be even better this gen. What with all the buzz around the Pre-Evo Stone, Knock Off is likely better then before (and it's still nice regardless vs Leftovers and such) and as always Rapid Spin and Toxic Spikes are invaluable.

    So my set to start off will likely be:
    Tentacruel @ Leftovers
    Ability: Liquid Ooze, Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
    - Knock Off
    - Rapid Spin
    - Surf/[Or some other move, unsure here]
    - Toxic Spikes
  18. Corrupted

    Corrupted

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    Would like to see 16 spe evs on the sets with sludge wave to beat breloom (who could get kinda scary). 32 spe beats jolly ttar
  19. SlyShady

    SlyShady

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    i like specs tentacruel. it's actually pretty potent.

    Tentacruel @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Liquid Ooze
    Nature: Modest/Timid
    EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spd/4 HP
    - Hydro Pump/Surf
    - Sludge Wave
    - Ice Beam
    - Giga Drain

    could do some nice work. giga drain also got a damage increase right? that could be useful to increase it's longetivity and give it a good way to hit bulky waters pretty hard.
  20. breh

    breh
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    Er... no clue why everybody is fussing over evil eye because the two most popular ghosts (Gengar and Shanderaa) either cannot be poisoned or are hit super-effectively by Hydro Pump, which has a similar BP at 180, taking STAB into account.

    Anyway Tenta didn't get much. Giga Drain buff is cool and all, as is hydration Rain Dish and Aiming Mark (never mind, wrong purpose), but otherwise it's still just... lackluster.
  21. Murkglow

    Murkglow

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    Uh it didn't get Hydration and Aiming Mark is basicly useless...
  22. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    [​IMG]

    Did we suddenly forget this Pokemon?
  23. breh

    breh
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    Lol, Rain Dish not Hydration Dx

    And also it's a pity that aiming mark is so useless (I'd thought it caused moves to ignore the target's immunities, not the other way around)... why would a pokemon want to ignore its own immunities?

    @ Colonel M

    I was of the impression that the big jelly was used on stall teams... thus it would be paired with numerous rapid spinners to get rid of T-spikes. Either way, why would Burungeru stay in? It's setup fodder for Tenta, who it can basically burn and not much else.. Night Shade or Recover can be used I guess but that's just asking for it.
  24. Quaily

    Quaily

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    if efruun and pals create a big subseed trend liquid ooze tentacruel could easily be a popular counter. It shuts down their subseeds, and can spin away hazards that a seeder would no doubt want out.
  25. HART4FLOON

    HART4FLOON

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    ^^
    PRINGLES JELLYFISH (srsly if you look at it it looks like the pringles man...)

    SD Tentacruel was quite the beast in past generations but ever since Gen 4, more powerful wallbreakers have been popping up. I think that Tentacruel is now destined to remain only on stall teams.

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