TERAKION: THE BADDEST MOTHER ****** EVER

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by forestflamerunner, Jan 25, 2011.

  1. forestflamerunner

    forestflamerunner
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Ok. This team is based on a dooble dancer terakion sweep. It has faired reasonably well (I’ve lost one out of the last fifteen matches or so).however this suspect round is coming to a close, and I just wanted to post this team and find out the flaws in my team building process before this team becomes obsolete.

    Ok so I wanted to have a terrakion sweep, so I obviously needed a terakion. Thar should be given.

    [​IMG]

    Now, I considered all the things that could possibly counter terakion. First off, you have your walls:
    Bronzong
    Hippowdon
    Skarmory
    Gliscor
    There are other walls, but they are far less common and can’t do much to stop my sweep. I wanted apoke that could destroy these walls, or at the very least, wear them down. CB Ttar had great offensive synergy with terakion and doubled terakions special defense, which added to terakion’s bulk, gave plenty of switch in oppurtunities.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Next I considered other pokes that could stop terakion. Immediately, I thought of pokes faster than terakion. I don’t mean faster with a choice scarf, since that could be worked around with switching and terakion can switch into a resisted locked move by a choice scarfer, RP on the switch, and SD on the switch back, or vice versa, depending on what seems more appropriate. That means that speedy pokes and pokes packing SE effective priority will be his main problem. Mischevious heart pokes wont be doing much in the way of damage, but they could paralyze terakion so I figured that I better account for those as well. I looked through all of the pokemon with any one of these characteristics and determined the main threats to be:
    Jolteon
    Crobat
    Weavile
    Dugtrio
    Alakazam
    Sceptile
    Starmie
    Azelf
    Voltolos
    Gengar
    Espeon
    lati@s
    infernape
    terrakion
    virizion
    elfoon
    murkrow
    kindra
    ludicolo
    kabutops
    doryuuzu
    venasaur
    shiftry
    scizor
    roobushin
    breloom
    azumarill

    yeah, its pretty long, but I can immediately start eliminating some threats that are taken care of by tyranitar. If I use a set bulky enough to take a FB from a +1 no investment, I can deal would still have to counter/check the following:
    Weavile
    Dugtrio
    Alakazam
    Sceptile
    Gengar
    Espeon
    infernape
    terrakion
    virizion
    kindra
    ludicolo
    kabutops
    doryuuzu
    venasaur
    shiftry
    scizor
    roobushin
    breloom
    azumarill
    that looks a lot more manageable. Now many of these pokes have something of weakness to lati@s. they are either weak to psychic attacks or cant take repeated draco meteors. Furthermore, ludicolo cant outspeed if I’m packing a choice scarf, and if I do that, then I can run trick to (hopefully screw over physical walls that plan on taking on psycho shocks (I’m choosing psycho shock over psychic to deal with virizion. Roobushin won’t like draco meteors much anyways). So, I add latios, thus leaving my threat list at:
    Weavile
    kindra
    kabutops
    doryuuzu
    venasaur
    shiftry
    scizor
    azumarill


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    at this point I have taken care of most of terakions counters, but notice that I have left the weather abusers, since I’m not sure I can beat the opponent in a weather war. Right now, I am going to ignore the threat of weather and just deal with the other threats. I will assume I can win the weather war and move on for now.
    Weavile
    scizor
    azumarill
    very few pokes feft to counter. First and foremost, I notice these pokes hate stealth rocks. It limits the number of times they can switch in (especially for weavile since its weak to rocks and scizor since it is uturning everywhere). So I start debating on solid users of SR. bronzing comes to mind since it can take plenty of hits and can deal with dory/rankurusu with the proper moves and also because it takes care of, with the assistance of latios, every viable set venasaur runs. Weavile is also cleaned up by gyro ball, and scizor is worn down by the same.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    azumarill
    scizor is not in all honesty completely out as a threat, but I believe I can at the very least limit its effectiveness with it having to navigate through sr and on the whole generally having to come in high powered hits. Anyways, I look at this team and see that it is very bulky and think, hmm, if only if these pokes had recovery, they could be so much more effective at taking hits. I did not feel like giving all my pokes recovery moves (and most couldn’t learn them anyways, besides rest of course) so I settle for wish. However, there is a matter of deciding on a wish passer. I consider my options:
    vaporeon
    blissey
    jirachi
    I didn’t include chansey because I was sertain I wanted a coverage move. So, I opted to put blissey on the list instead. First and foremort, I didn’t want jirachi since it had the same typing as bronzing, so that was out. Now between blissey and vaporeon, both have pro’s and cons. Blissey was bulky as hell on the special side and could pass 400 HP wishes. Furthermore, it could use thunder wave for team support, something vappy just can’t do. However, vappy does have water absorb which would help a lot with kingdra and rain dance on the whole and could also pass sizeable wishes. Blissey, although able to soak up specs kingdra’s attacks like a pro, could not handle DDancers at all. I am exceptionally scared of kingra having been swept by it too often and even thugh I have ttar, another check can’t hurt so I add in vaporeon.
    With that I can say I have checked azumarill and, if I run boiling water, scizor as well.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    For this last slot, I consider either scizor or breloom, due to their access to priority. I weigh the pros and cons. Breloom has some of the most useful resistances in the game, such as a resistance to electric, water, ground, and rock attacks for me to abuse. Furthermore, it has access to spore, which, in my opinion is easily the best move in the game. It also has access to mach punch, which is SE against doryuuzu, which I love. Scizor has access to u-turn and technician boosted bullet punch. However, the only viable sets are, in my opinion, are the choice banders and sword dancer set, but I already have 2 choiced pokes and I don’t feel like another set up sweeper, and I love breloom, so I’m going with breloom.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    After some testing and some great advice, I decided to change my ttar into a mixed variant. It has been a lot better at tearing down walls for terakion. Furthermore, I switched out the somewhat useless breloom with garchomp, allows me to counter threats like skarmory more effectively. Also, this frees up space on latios allowing me to abdicate its choice scarf for a life orb +3 attacks set, letting me get a lot more bang for my buck.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    THE TEAM

    [​IMG]

    terakion@balloon
    jolly/252ATK/252SPE/4HP
    heart of justice
    rock polish
    sword dance
    stone edge
    close combat

    this guy is on the lead position in my team mainly because it is the only thing I am not going to lead with under (almost) any circumstances. It throws some people in for a loop when I switch up my lead  Anyhow, I built my team around letting this guy sweep. Sword dance and rockpolish are there because it gives me the flexibility to counter stall and HO, the former of which can give me some trouble at times. Stone edge and close combat provide great coverage, resisted only by claydol and goruggo, so not having x- scizzor or whatever doesn’t hurt much. Balloon is to help me deal with doryuuzu as well as giving another, albeit transient, immunity to abuse. Life orb didn’t give me any crucial KO’s and leftovers, in my experience has bee altogether inferior so why not.
    Generally to get this guy switched in, I either sack one of my pokes or predict an earthquake or a dark attack and start my sweep. Worst case scenario I abuse my SPD boost courtesy of TTar for a safe switch in on a special attack.

    [​IMG]

    tyranitar@leftovers
    Sassy/252HP/180SPA/76SPD
    sand stream
    Fire blast
    Pursuit
    Ice beam
    Superpower

    I generally use ttar to soften up some walls for terrakion and pursuit some of the more delicate sweepers that may threaten terakion down the road with pursuit. I run expert belt to fool my opponent into thinking I’m scarfed and encouraging them to send out their physical wall which I can take care of with fire blast (bronzong, skarmory) and ice beam (gliscor, hippowdon). Pursuit is used to help trap frail, fast sweepers while superpower is for coverage. The EV spread is primarily used for special bulk and to help deal with my wallbreaking tools (fire blast/ice beam).
    I can get ttar to switch in on any specially based pokemon not packing focus blast, letting me pursuit it as it tries to escape and then attack the wall they switch in with whichever special attack I please. Sunce I lack crunch, randorusu is a problem, but max attack choice band ttar can’t OHKO max defense rankurusu so I guess it is something of a mute point.

    [​IMG]

    Latios@life orb
    Timid/252SPA/252SPE/4HP
    Levitate
    Surf
    Psycho shock
    Draco meteor
    Recover

    Before bringing this thing in, I try to make sure pursuit users are eliminated. Once that is done, I can bring this guy in to start his sweep. With DM, surf, and Psycho shock, I get fairly good coverage, only being walled by nattlei and empoleon, the latter of which is almost never seen. Psycho shock is on the set to deal with fighting types like virizion, surf is there because water is such a great attacking type and draco meteor is there for its pure power. Latios is the only fighting resist on my team, which is problematic at times, but since I have bronzing to some up physical attacks like a pro (and vaporeon to a lesser extent), I often do fair alright. Recover is (obviously) there t increase latios’s longetivity Generally I switch in latios on fighting attacks and fighting pokes once pursuit users have been neutralized. It can ko all fightings but roobushin and zuruzuskin with PS. The former takes quite a bit from draco meteor while the latter is KO’ed by fighting attacks of my own, so its not a huge problem.
    [​IMG]

    bronzong@leftovers
    relaxed252HP/252DEF/4SPD/0SPE IV’s
    levitate
    stealth rock
    earthquake
    hidden power (ice)
    gyro ball

    more times than not, this is my lead. Stealth rock because its stealth rock. Stealth rock place on this set is the most easily justifyable. The three attacks are to help counter specific threats. Earthquake is to held deal with doryuuzu, who can’t be 2hkoed any other way by bronzing (pop ballon, then EQ). hdden power is to deal with doryuuzu’s partner in crime, randorosu, as well as to surprise random gliscor leads or, for that matter, any time gliscor sticks around bronzing. Gyro ball is used for raw power as well as to deal with deoxys-s leads, which otherwise could prove troublesome. I run 0 speed IV’s to better handle tr teams and i'm not gaining much by outspeeding other bronzong anyways. between hp ice and earthquake, I can deal with many of TR’s weapons like krimigan. i run max defense is because this is my end all be all physical wall. If this falls, latios is taking the close combats. This is one of the reasons I use wish: I don’t want that to happen.
    Like I said before, bronzing is generally my lead. It can deal with a few choice leads my team otherwise hates, like Deoxys-S. other than that, it just comes in on stray physical hits and scares off their users. It is also the most frequent recipient of wishes besides of course, vaporeon.

    [​IMG]

    vaporeon@leftovers
    Bold/248HP/224DEF/36SPD
    Water absorb
    Roar
    Wish
    Protect
    Boiling water

    Originally I wanted breloom's spore to not have to compete with other statuses. However, Scizor was too much of a threat that I needed to scare away with boiling water. With that being said, it may seem smarter to make vaporeon more specially bulky, but I try not to depend on 30% burn chances to save vaporeon’s ass. Vaporeonis bulky on both sides, which is an advantage for a it as a wish passer, letting it pass to both my specially and physically bulky pokes, since it’ll be hit for damage on both sides (unlike blissey, who has to pass almost exclusively to physically bulky pokes). Wish and protect are staples for this set, roar is to get things I don’t like out of my way and rack up SR damage, and boiling water is for some STAB and to spread the burns around.
    Since it is so bulky on both sides, it finds ample opportunities to pass wishes around and scout. It can come in on almost anything but stab thunderbolts, virizion, and set up sweepers.in most matches, it is the mvp for spreading love to the rest of the team.

    [​IMG]
    Garchomp@choice scarf
    Jolly/252ATK/252SPE/4HP
    Sand veil
    Stone edge
    Earthquake
    Outrage
    Fire blast

    Garchomp is arguably one of the best revenge killers. With nice bulk trollish speed and monstrous attack, it hits fast and like a truck. Sand veil is to abuse sandstorm and choice scarf because it is a choice scarf set . Earthquake and outrage are my obligatory stab attacks and provide great coverage by themselves. Stone edge gives me the infamous edgequake while fire blast is there to destroy any skarmory or bronzing that tries to switch in onto a predicted earthquake.
    Generally, I can switch in garchomp unto a thunderbolt or to revenge kill. It outspeeds most of the metagame so it can come in on pretty much any weaker attack. Besides for its electric immunity, it also has resistances to some of the most common attacks in the metagame like stone edge and fire blast, giving it many switch in oppurtunities. It is also the second most common recipient of wishes behing bronzong since it gets worn down so much by entry hazards like spikes and toxic spikes.

    Well that’s my team. Read it, Rate it, enjoy!

    P.S. if you are one of those people who hate typos, tell me where you see them and I’ll be glad to fix them!​
  2. forestflamerunner

    forestflamerunner
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
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    offensive threats

    Aakeosu -bronzond shuts this thing down. gyro ball hits like a rock and once its at half health, its hardly a threat. i could also use breloom to mach pnch it if need be.

    Aerodactyl -same as above. start with bronzong's gyro ball. if it goes down, move to mach punch from breloom

    Azelf - tyranitar. most are specially based, so tyranitar can take it down. if i see a physical one at some point, latios is good for cleanup duty.

    Birijion -latios is my best counter, though i have to watch out for hp ice. tyranitar could ko it too, but it has to watch for focus blast

    Blaziken -latios can come in as it sword dances, outpeed, and ko with surf.

    Borutorosu - tyranitar laughs at it. i f ithink its about to switch, i pursuit. ttar hardly minds paralysis anyways.

    Breloom -i generally give up whatever is almost dead as sporefodder and then bring in latios. latios doesn't fear mach punch and can outspeed for the ko

    Daikenki- never faced one, but i'm pretty sur breloom can handle it.

    Deoxys-S -bronzong's gyro ball hurts. its my best bet since so many of these things run superpower. if it lacks superpower ttar does all right

    Doryuuzu - breloom, bronzong, and terakion (if balloon is intact) take care of it. not a huge threat.

    Dragonite -very difficult. if it runs fire blast, bronzong won't be able to use hp ice. but that generally means it lacks thunderbolt. so then, vaporeon can break marvel scale and give the reigns to latios for the draco meteor. outside of that, i have few options. easily one of my teams top threats.

    Espeon -ttar can pursuit it to death or latios can kill it. not much of a threat

    Flygon -bronzong can take everything but fireblasts. generally i just hit it with whatiever i got out since its going to uturn anyways. not much of a threat

    Garchomp - bronzong works great as it tries to sword dance. hp ice can ko. latios can also prove effective.

    Gengar -latios can outspeed and kill. just gotta watch for shadow ball

    Genosect -not released

    Goruugu -i'm guessing bronzong can take it. latios can definitely revenge it. i haven't faced this yet

    Gyarados - anything with stone edge can work. it won't like draco meteors much either

    Heatran -everything on my team can handle it except for bronzong. not a threat at all

    Heracross -latios can't switch in but psycho shock can kill it. in the meantime, bronzong is my best bet.

    Hihidaruma -mach punch kills it if not in duruma mode. latios also can revenge kill it.

    Infernape -mach punch can kill it most of the time

    Jarooda -never saw one

    Jirachi -bronzong or vaporeon is my best bet. it has too many sets so if i guess the wrong one, it can net a kill easily. very dangerous.

    Jolteon -pursuit and mach punch

    Kerudio -not released

    Kingdra -ttar changes the weather, latios outspeeds out of the rain and vaporeon eats up those water attacks

    Kirikizan -breloom

    Kojondo -its a bitch. latios does ok but is scared of uturn. high jump kick hits hard, but if vaporeon can protect at the right moment, it works to my favor

    Kobaruon -never saw one, so i can't really say

    Kurimugan -bronzong is my best bet. trick room is hard on me in general though.

    Kyurem -breloom

    Latios -most are speced, so mine kills them. tyranitar is also helpful

    Lucario -breloom kills with mach punch or bronzong with Q. haven't seen many NP variants but latios can take those for me with surf

    Machamp -latios does fine with psycho shock and trick

    Magnezone -bronzong tends to bait it and i ko with EQ when it switches in. in my experience, most lack magnet rise

    Mamoswine -breloom can use mach punch or bronzong can use gyro ball

    Mebukijika -breloom does all right with mach punch and spore

    Meloetta-S -not released

    Meloetta-V -not released

    Metagross -bronzong is a good bet. earthquake will wear metagross down quickly enough

    Ninjask -stone edge from terakion or ttar will do.

    Ononokusu -latios takes it down with dm. it is also vulnerable to breloom's priority hits. bronzong can also be effective at times

    Randorosu -bronzong can kill it with hp ice

    Rankurusu -cm sets don't pack enough of a punch for ttar most of the time, and i generally wear down TR sets. however, if a trick room variant has recover, i'm in trouble.

    Roobushin -trick it a scarf or use repeated special attacks. all else fails, roar it out. latios can generally handle it though.

    Roserade -physical attacks wear it down. psycho shock is particularly useful

    Salamence -bronzong can switch in and secure the kill with hp ice

    Sazandora -breloom kills with mach punch

    Scizor -vaporeon, tyranitar baiting, bronzong, and SR damage can keep it in check

    Shandera -tyranitar rape. shandera can't touch it.

    Shaymin - latios murders this guy with draco meteors. tyranitar isn't a bad choice either

    Shibirudon -tyraniitar for stone edge, latios for DM, breloom for spore. on the whole, not too bad.

    Shubarugo - never faced this one

    Smeargle -priority tears this thing up.

    Starmie -tyranitar can play mind games with crunch and pursuit. latios also does a lot with draco meteor

    Terakion -breloom and bronzong together keep this bad by at bay.

    Togekiss -haven't seen one, but tyranitar seems effective. bronzong could also probably take it.

    Torunerosu -tyranitar eats this thing up with pursuit and stone edge

    Tsunbear -breloom

    Tyranitar -breloom

    Urugamosu -i generally let recoil build up since i vave no real answer to this thing. if it doesn't have hp fighting or ground, terakion can kill it, but its a solid threat.

    Venusaur -latios and bronzong together wall its most common sets

    Victini -never faced one but ttar looks great on paper

    Warubiaru -breloom can use mach punch to great success

    Weavile - mach punch is effective, but ice shard is too dangerous. generally i let bronzong gyro ball its ass

    Zeburaika - never saw one, but bronzong seems effective on paper

    Zoroark -breloom deals with it really well. just a matter of figuring out its zoroark. ttar does well against special sets

    Zuruzukin -breloom could put it to sleep and work at it, with mach punch, but generally vaporeon just roars it out before it becomes a huge threat
  3. Venser

    Venser

    Joined:
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    Non-technician Mach Punch Breloom doesn't actually do that much to Doryuuzu; 60.4% - 71.5% is the precise number. Considering that most Excadrills/Doryuuzu are not Life Orb'd (instead Balloon'd) if you rely on Breloom to check Doryuuzu it's not going to do very well. Since Balloon Dory can 2HKO or set up on Bronzong, it really runs through most of your team. I'd suggest replacing Bronzong with a defensive Poison Heal Gliscor, this is the set:
    [​IMG] @ Toxic Orb
    252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
    Poison Heal | Impish
    - Earthquake
    - Toxic
    - Taunt
    - Ice Fang

    This Gliscor set is extremely bulky, usually only falling to STAB SE attacks, and, unlike Bronzong, it can easily take +2 Doryuuzus down. Taunt and Toxic are to give it some utility as both a lead and a stall-breaker of sorts, with Ice Fang there for coverage and taking out some of the threats you mentioned.
  4. forestflamerunner

    forestflamerunner
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    the only problem with replacing bronzong with gliscor is ai lose my only steel and a slew of dragon resists. i realize breloom won't ko dory, but it does pop its balloon at worst, letting bronzong deal with it with EQ. also, most excadrills dont run x-scissor orbrick break in my experience, many opting for return. so if my calcs are correct, bronzong shouln't be 2hko'ed anyways. i really don't think i'm too doryuuzu weak. in my experience i think i have been able to handle it well enough. however if multiple peoplle share your view, i would be happy to make a change.
  5. MasterX

    MasterX

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
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    wow you did all that research man. Starmie could have a good chance of sweeping your team if you mispredict an ice beam, or latios is down. I don't want to change anything but you should be more cautious and not bring tyranitar in on it since your tyranitar will have a hard time taking life orb hydro pumps. I suggest you consider putting a choice scarf on tyranitar so you have a way of removing threats like starmie and ghosts like gengar who could potentially sweep but then you lose power
  6. Venser

    Venser

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    Yeah I was worrying more about X-Scissor variants especially, considering it can OHKO Latios as well.
  7. Boondocker

    Boondocker

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    Nov 6, 2009
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    Sub mach punch is not a good idea on breloom. Witout focus punch your strongest move is now unstabbed stone edge, witch wont touch alot of foes. You now get hard walled by skarmory, hippowodon, vaporeon, garchomp, etc. Either run sub/punch or technicion.
  8. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Cool team you've got here. I agree with Boondocker on Breloom; Substitute + Mach Punch isn't a very effective combination imo, especially since you can just use Focus Punch which is a lot more powerful than Mach Punch and actually uses the Substitute support. I recommend using a set with the following EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe with Focus Punch / Substitute / Spore / Seed Bomb or Stone Edge; I would suggest using Seed Bomb as things like Zapdos seem to be dealt with easily by Bronzong and Latios.

    I really don't think Tyranitar is doing its job as well as it could be; you say its there to weaken opposing walls for Terakion to sweep, but I really don't see that happening with a Choice Band Tyranitar. Instead, I suggest you replace with a MixTar; MixTar is easily able to muscle its way through walls like Gliscor and Nattorei while simultaneously giving you a decent check to the links of Latios and Latias (given Tyranitar doesn't switch into a boosted Surf). Use a set with and Ev spread of 252 HP / 180 SpA / 76 SpD and a moveset of Ice Beam / Crunch or Pursuit / Superpower / Fire Blast. Stealth Rock can be used over Fire Blast or Ice Beam if needed; I would recommend the former as Terakion can easily deal with Nattorei and the like.

    If you do decide to use Stealth Rock over Fire Blast on Tyranitar, you'll won't need the aforementioned move on Bronzong. Seeing as Bronzong seems to be one of your primary answers to Rain teams, I think replacing Stealth Rock with Explosion would be best as it will allow you to take down any Rain sweeper which may have gotten a couple of unwanted boosts; even Payback could work in that slot as it benefits from Bronzong's natural low base Speed. I hope this has helped, and good luck!

    Suggested Changes in Short (open)


    • Substitute Focus Punch Breloom over current variant
    • MixTar over CB Tyranitar
    • Explosion / Payback on Bronzong (if you choose to put Stealth Rock on Tyranitar)
  9. forestflamerunner

    forestflamerunner
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Thanks for all the rates guys! first off, i changed my ttar into the mixtar set. it has been a lot more effective. Second, it is obvious to me, as well as everyone else who has seen this thread, that breloom is the most ineffective poke on this team. i am going to switch it for scarfchomp, allowing me to check far more pokes than breloom while simultaneously eliminating the need for latios to run a scarf. I'm going to change it for a specs set (or LO+ 3 attacks, not sure which one is working better yet) which will let me secure a 2HKO on blissey with psycho shock and giving me more power on the whole. I'll be updating the OP momentarily. thanks again for all the rates.

    @ Aerrow

    what nature and item would you recommend for that ttar set?
  10. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Here's the entire set.

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Sand Stream | Sassy
    252 HP / 180 SpA / 76 SpD
    - Fire Blast / Stealth Rock
    - Superpower
    - Crunch / Pursuit
    - Ice Beam / Stealth Rock

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