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OU Terrakion

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by Agent Gibbs, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Overview
    ########

    After the reputation it earned as a dangerous offensive powerhouse in BW OU, Terrakion has a lot to live up to this time around. Its base 129 Attack stat is still impressive, as is the coverage it gets between its Rock- and Fighting-type STABs. Combined with its good base 108 Speed, this makes Terrakion a powerful sweeper and wallbreaker that is nearly impossible to switch into. Its resistance to Stealth Rock also helps it switch in and out more easily, and its decent bulk ensures that it won't roll over and die to just any attack.

    Several changes in the metagame have made it harder for Terrakion, however. Newly introduced Fairy- and Ghost-types have made spamming Close Combat even more difficult than last generation. Aegislash in particular is a common threat and one of Terrakion's best counters. With blazing fast Pokemon such as Greninja and Thundurus running around, Terrakion's base 108 Speed just isn't as impressive as it used to be. The prevalence of powerful priority attacks also leaves it easier to check. Still, Terrakion is a serious offensive threat.

    Life Orb Attacker
    ########
    name: Life Orb Attacker
    move 1: Close Combat
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Swords Dance
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Naive

    Moves
    ========

    This Terrakion serves as a fantastic wallbreaker. Close Combat and Stone Edge serve as Terrakion's best and most powerful STAB moves. Earthquake deals heavy damage to Aegislash while also serving as a more reliable move for opponents such as Heatran and Mega Mawile. Hidden Power Ice is great for luring in and eliminating Landorus-T and Gliscor, two of Terrakion's best counters. If either switches into Stone Edge with Stealth Rock down, they have a good shot at being KOed by Hidden Power Ice the next turn. Hidden Power Ice can also be used to pick off other opponents 4x weak to it such as Garchomp and Dragonite, alleviating worries about Stone Edge's low accuracy or Close Combat's defense drops. Alternatively, Terrakion can use Swords Dance instead of Hidden Power Ice to sweep later in the game once the opposing team has been weakened and faster threats or priority users have been removed.

    Set Details
    ========

    A Speed-boosting nature and maximum Speed investment is needed to allow Terrakion to outrun as many foes as possible. Terrakion's Attack stat is maximized to provide optimal physical power, while the Naive nature and 4 Special Attack EVs maintain the power of Hidden Power Ice. If you are using Swords Dance, a Jolly nature should be used instead with the leftover 4 EVs placed into Special Defense. Protect can be used to scout the moves of incoming Choice item users, such as Choice Band Scizor and Choice Scarf Landorus-T, but doing so will cost Terrakion valuable coverage. Life Orb is the primary item as it provides a significant boost to all of Terrakion's attacks. Expert Belt can also be used to bluff a Choice item and act as an even more effective lure. However, the power loss means that more prior damage is required in order for Terrakion to safely beat Landorus-T and Gliscor.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    This set is best used as a general wallbreaker early-to-mid-game and a lure for Landorus-T and Gliscor—two of the biggest threats to Terrakion in the game—if you are using Hidden Power Ice. It is very important to not reveal Hidden Power Ice unless absolutely necessary. Doing so too early will alert the opponent that their Landorus-T or Gliscor is not safe to switch in, and thus you'll be unable to successfully lure them in and KO. Swords Dance versions should focus on attacking outright early in the game and saving Swords Dance for later when obstacles to a sweep are removed. If you choose to use Protect, use it sparingly as well. While it's great for scouting Choice-locked opponents, you must make sure that the opponent you're trying to scout is not a setup sweeper. Otherwise, they might set up on Protect and threaten with a sweep.

    Team Options
    ========

    Because variants with Hidden Power Ice excel at luring in and removing Landorus-T and Gliscor, sweepers that have trouble with the aforementioned Pokemon—such as Lucario and Dragonite—are great teammates. These offensive Pokemon also appreciate the openings that Terrakion can create with its natural wallbreaking abilities. Terrakion itself needs entry hazard support to turn as many 3HKOs into 2HKOs and 2HKOs into OHKOs as possible, especially if attempting a sweep with Swords Dance. As previously mentioned, Stealth Rock in particular is necessary to KO defensive Gliscor and Landorus-T with Stone Edge followed by Hidden Power Ice.

    Choice Band
    ########
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Close Combat
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Quick Attack / X-Scissor
    item: Choice Band
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    nature: Jolly

    Moves
    ========

    Choice Band Terrakion aims to deal as much raw damage as possible. Close Combat and Stone Edge are its most powerful Fighting- and Rock-type STAB moves, respectively, with the latter handling most of the Pokemon that resist or are immune to the former. Earthquake is the primary coverage move on this set as it handles Aegislash, the most common Pokemon that can shut down both of Terrakion's STAB moves. It also serves as a safer and more effective move for opponents such as Tentacruel and Mega Mawile. While it isn't the strongest priority in the world, Quick Attack is useful for picking off weakened offensive Pokemon such as Latios and Greninja. X-Scissor can also be used to hit Celebi harder, as it would otherwise be able to take any one of Terrakion's other attacks and hit back with its own STAB moves. It's also Terrakion's best bet against the odd Cresselia and Slowbro.

    Set Details
    ========

    Choice Band offers Terrakion immense immediate power and allows it to blow holes in teams with its STAB moves. Terrakion needs as much Speed and power as possible in order to do its job, so a Jolly nature and physically offensive EV spread is chosen to optimize this, while the leftover 4 EVs are placed into Special Defense. Although the extra power of an Adamant nature is tempting, the inability to outrun Pokemon such as Garchomp and Mega Charizard Y is not worth it.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    It is important to keep in mind that Choice Band Terrakion is primarily a wallbreaker and not a sweeper (although it can occasionally sweep slower teams). This set is best used early-to-mid-game when it can use its raw power to break down defensive cores and open up holes for a teammate to sweep. When trying to wallbreak with Terrakion, it is generally best to stick to using its STAB moves for their raw power and neutral coverage. Terrakion's coverage moves are important but easy to take advantage of, so you should only use them when absolutely needed, such as to hit Aegislash with Earthquake. While it should never be relied upon, Terrakion's Quick Attack is an important revenge-killing tool, so be careful about sacrificing Terrakion if you think you might need it to pick off a weakened sweeper and prevent an opponent's sweep.

    Team Options
    ========

    Because Terrakion does such a good job of opening up holes for teammates to sweep, Pokemon that can appreciate Terrakion's wallbreaking abilities make great partners. Lucario is a good example since it shares similar checks with Terrakion and can sweep with ease once Terrakion has softened checks such as Slowbro and Gliscor. As Terrakion's job is to do as much damage as possible, Stealth Rock support is greatly appreciated and can be crucial for achieving 2HKOs against Pokemon such as Gliscor, Slowbro, and Tangrowth. Teammates that can handle the likes of Landorus-T, Celebi, Aegislash, and Gliscor—in other words, bulkier Pokemon that resist Fighting-type attacks—can help Terrakion to more easily spam Close Combat, by far its most powerful and reliable weapon. Good options for this role include Skarmory, which can switch in on many variants of these Pokemon and force them out while setting its entry hazards, and Mamoswine, which can defeat any of these checks with its STAB moves.

    Stealth Rock
    ########
    name: Stealth Rock
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Taunt / Earthquake / Swords Dance
    item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    nature: Jolly

    Moves
    ========

    Terrakion is a great offensive Stealth Rock user capable of using its sheer offensive presence to force switches and set up its entry hazard. Close Combat and Stone Edge are Terrakion's best STAB moves available, and the coverage and power they offer together are splendid. Taunt prevents slower entry hazard setters such as Deoxys-D and Smeargle from getting up their own entry hazards while Terrakion lays down Stealth Rock. It also helps prevent slower Defog users from removing Stealth Rock. Meanwhile, Earthquake is Terrakion's primary method of dealing with Aegislash, one of its best checks. Swords Dance, on the other hand, gives Terrakion excellent sweeping potential once it completes its job as a Stealth Rock setter.

    Set Details
    ========

    Life Orb is the primary item option because it gives Terrakion significantly more offensive presence while also giving it a better chance to defeat opposing Rapid Spin and Defog users, and hence keep Stealth Rock up. However, Focus Sash can also be used as it almost guarantees that Terrakion will get Stealth Rock up and/or Taunt slower entry hazard users if used in the lead position. Leftovers also has its merits as it lets Terrakion survive longer to act as a more consistent Stealth Rock setter. Maximum Speed and a Jolly nature let Terrakion outrun as many opposing hazard users as possible, and maximum Attack gives Terrakion a lot of bite as well.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Because Stealth Rock is so vital for offensive teams, it is important to get Terrakion in to set up Stealth Rock as early as you can. If the opponent has a likely dedicated lead such as Deoxys-D or Smeargle, you definitely want to lead with Terrakion and use Taunt to prevent them from setting up their own entry hazards. Be careful against faster leads that might be carrying Taunt (such as Deoxys-S and Greninja), as these can prevent Terrakion from performing its most important job—getting up Stealth Rock. If your opponent has a Rapid Spin or Defog user, you should play more conservatively with Terrakion in case it needs to set up Stealth Rock again. If your opponent doesn't have one of these, you don't need Terrakion to check anything, or if a Swords Dance sweep seems unlikely should you be using that, don't be afraid to sacrifice Terrakion to gain momentum.

    Team Options
    ========

    Terrakion is best used on fast-paced offensive teams that need a reliable offensive Stealth Rock user. That said, you'll want to pair this Terrakion set with powerful offensive teammates such as Greninja, Talonflame and Lucario, which are capable of both making full use of the extra Stealth Rock damage and using their natural offensive presence to prevent the opponent from easily using Rapid Spin or Defog to remove Stealth Rock. A spinblocker such as Gengar or Aegislash can also help prevent Rapid Spin in particular while using Stealth Rock's passive damage themselves with their own offensive abilities.

    Choice Scarf
    ########
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Close Combat
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: X-Scissor / Rock Slide
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    nature: Jolly

    Moves
    ========

    Choice Scarf Terrakion is a great revenge killer capable of outspeeding nearly everything. Close Combat is Terrakion's most powerful Fighting-type STAB and is a great weapon for checking opposing sweepers and occasionally sweeping late-game. Stone Edge is also a powerful STAB move, and it offers excellent neutral coverage alongside Close Combat while keeping sweepers such as Dragonite, Salamence, and Gyarados in check. Earthquake is Terrakion's only way of checking Aegislash, and it also serves as a great weapon for other offensive Pokemon such as Mega Mawile and Heatran. X-Scissor lets Terrakion check Deoxys-S, Espeon, Alakazam, Latios, Latias, and Starmie, which Terrakion can outrun thanks to the Choice Scarf. As Stone Edge is notorious for its 80% accuracy, Rock Slide can also be used as a slightly more accurate alternative for when you absolutely need to KO an opponent's sweeper and can't afford to miss.

    Set Details
    ========

    With a Jolly nature and maximum Speed investment, Choice Scarf Terrakion gains the ability to outspeed +2 Adamant Dragonite and everything slower. The Choice Scarf is necessary for Terrakion to check as many offensive Pokemon as possible. While it may seem as though Choice Scarf Terrakion is fast enough to not require a Jolly nature, it is still necessary for outspeeding and checking threats such as +1 Mega Charizard X and Choice Scarf Garchomp.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Choice Scarf Terrakion is primarily a check to offensive threats and should be used as such. You should play conservatively with it as long as your opponent has a sweeper that you might need Terrakion to defeat. However, Terrakion does possess the Speed and power to occasionally sweep late-game even without a boosting item, so it can be used as a secondary win condition. In the event that you try to sweep with Terrakion, you'll want to make sure that you eliminate its checks or weaken them to the point where you can sweep with one move (usually Close Combat).

    Team Options
    ========

    Terrakion needs as much prior damage as possible to ensure that it can KO the Pokemon that it is supposed to keep in check. Stealth Rock in particular is needed to guarantee that Rock Slide will KO Dragon Dance Salamence and Dragonite. In addition, as Choice Scarf Terrakion is not all that powerful, it will often be forced out by some of its bulkier checks. Pokemon that can tackle these checks and take advantage of them are great partners. For instance, Dragon Dance Gyarados with either Substitute or Taunt can set up on defensive Gliscor and Landorus-T sets lacking Stone Edge.


    Other Options
    ########

    Sacred Sword is a weaker but safer alternative to Close Combat. It also helps against Pokemon that might boost their Defense stats, such as Bulk Up Conkeldurr and Coil Zygarde. Rock Polish boosts Terrakion's Speed to unbelievable levels, and it synergizes especially well with Swords Dance. However, finding setup opportunities can be difficult, and the prevalence of powerful priority attacks makes sweeping even more difficult. Salac Berry can also be used to boost Terrakion's Speed, and Terrakion can use Substitute to activate the Salac Berry while protecting itself from status moves and revenge killers. Poison Jab and Iron Head are Terrakion's best answers to Fairy-types that resist Close Combat, while Zen Headbutt hits Mega Venusaur harder than Terrakion's other moves. Stone Edge generally hits these targets hard enough, though. Work Up can be used as an alternative boosting move because it boosts both of Terrakion's offensive stats and makes it easier to KO Landorus-T and Gliscor with Hidden Power Ice. However, Work Up makes it obvious that Terrakion is running Hidden Power Ice, meaning Landorus-T and Gliscor will be less likely to actually stay in. While it doesn't offer the power boost of Life Orb, Air Balloon can be used on boosting sets to let Terrakion set up against opponents that rely on Ground-type attacks to hit Terrakion, such as Heatran and Hippowdon.


    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Aegislash**: Aegislash is a very common and relevant threat, and it happens to take both of Terrakion's STABs with incredible ease due to its typing and natural bulk. Aegislash must be careful about switching into sets that carry Earthquake, but it otherwise switches in easily and can heavily damage Terrakion or outright KO with Sacred Sword, Iron Head, or Flash Cannon.

    **Bulky Psychic-types**: Cresselia and Slowbro can use their typing and incredible physical bulk to shut Terrakion down. Each of them can takes hits from even the Choice Band set after Stealth Rock damage and hit back with their STAB Psychic-type attacks.

    **Bulky Ground-types**: Bulky Landorus-T, defensive Gliscor, and physically defensive Hippowdon can take two hits from Choice Band Terrakion even after Stealth Rock and threaten back with STAB Earthquake. Bulkier Zygarde sets can take Terrakion's hits and actually set up on them. A few lesser-used Pokemon such as Nidoqueen and Golurk can also beat Terrakion, with Nidoqueen only fearing Earthquake and Golurk shutting Terrakion down completely.

    **Bulky Grass-types**: Physically defensive variants of Mega Venusaur, Gourgeist-XL, and Celebi are examples of bulky Grass-types that can escape a 2HKO from Choice Band Terrakion and hit back with their STAB moves, with only Celebi fearing X-Scissor.

    **Faster Offensive Pokemon**: There are a lot of common offensive Pokemon that can naturally outspeed Terrakion and KO it with a super effective attack. Examples include Greninja, Thundurus, Alakazam, Latios, and Latias. Likewise, Choice Scarf variants of many slower Pokemon, such as Landorus-T and Rotom-W, can outspeed Terrakion and check it in the same manner.

    **Priority**: The prevalence of powerful priority makes it harder for Terrakion to sweep. Moves such as Brave Bird from Talonflame, Aqua Jet from Azumarill, Mach Punch from Breloom and Conkeldurr, and Bullet Punch from Scizor are capable of inflicting severe damage to Terrakion if not outright defeating it.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
  2. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Ok, so while I'm filling in the blanks here, I just want to explain my reasons behind the set order real quick and ask a question for QC.

    Set Order (open)

    As you can tell, the set order is really similar to the BW analysis, so I'll quickly explain why I put these sets where they are.

    I honestly feel that Choice Band is just Terrakion's best set right now. Wallbreaking with its STABs is still something that it does incredibly well without a lot of competition. The most common new Pokemon that gives it much trouble is Aegislash, which is the main reason why Earthquake is slashed before X-Scissor.

    Stealth Rock is second because Terrakion is still a pretty decent Stealth Rock lead. At the very least, it does well against opposing Deoxys-D leads and such (especially those stupid Smeargles) while getting up hazards and using its natural offensive presence to prevent an easy Rapid Spin/Defog (specifically, Excadrill and Mandibuzz).

    I honestly wanted to move SubSD to the second spot, but it took me a while before I realized that I was using Rock Gem in testing, which is unreleased as of right now. Life Orb and Leftovers were the next best options, but neither performed quite as well. Still, with all the faster Pokemon and priority running around, having a Substitute to act as a safeguard against those checks was fantastic.

    Choice Scarf is still good, but somewhat less necessary with so many great priority options and faster Pokemon in general to use as alternatives.

    I put Double Booster last because it honestly didn't work that well in testing, and I was considering dropping it altogether, but I wanted to get QC opinions first. The main problem was just that offensive teams were so much harder to sweep when things like Talonflame, Scizor, Breloom, and Azumarill are everywhere. It was just a lot of trouble to clear the field enough to sweep with Rock Polish, and I found myself going back to Substitute more often than not.


    Now the question: should the Life Orb + 4 Attacks set that was being worked on in late BW be included? This set was great in BW OU since it lured in things like Gliscor and Landorus-T to kill them off with HP Ice, which opened up for a teammate with similar checks. Since Gliscor and Landorus-T are still really common, this set has worked well when partnered with something like Mega Lucario. My only concern is that the Hidden Power nerf has made the set less effective. In BW, bulky pivot Landorus-T and defensive Gliscor (with Poison Heal already activated or activating on the switch + Protect) would always (or almost always, in defensive Gliscor's case) be KO'd by Stone Edge on the switch followed by HP Ice. This is no longer the case, so while Terrakion may still be able to cripple these two enough for a teammate to sweep past them, it often dies in the process. The set was also not fully approved in BW, but if it's approved now, I see no reason not to keep the setup that's up in the BW thread now:

    Life Orb
    ########
    move 1: Close Combat
    move 2: Stone Edge
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Earthquake / Protect
    ability: Justified
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    So yeah, just a few things I wanted to throw out for QC consideration while I write up the rest of the skeleton.

    P.S. Going Christmas shopping, I'll try to address any recommended changes in a few hours when I get back, or maybe as late as 10:00 if I take too long and have to go straight to work.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
  3. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Yeah, 4 attacks should definitely be included, it's a great wallbreaker, and having Earthquake for Aegislash, Mega Mawile, and Tentacruel is great, as is being able to 2HKO Gliscor and Landorus-T.

    Slash Leftovers with Focus Sash on the SR set, it's the best option if you don't want to play Terrakion as a suicide lead.
  4. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Alright, I've added the Life Orb set. Based on how it worked when I tested it, I put it above the Choice Scarf set for now. I'll try to keep filling in the skeleton as I have time, which will probably be later tonight for the most part (this is a pretty big analysis, lol).

    EDIT: This is done and ready for QC checks. After a brief chat on IRC, I'm removing the Double Booster set. It just has too much trouble setting up, and unlike SubSD, it gets killed or forced out by common priority.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
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  5. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    QC APPROVED 1/3

    Just take into consideration some of the things I said over IRC
  6. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Ok, small change on the SubSD set. I originally thought that the Salac Berry was unreleased, which is why I didn't originally include it on the SubSD set. However, it turns out that it's available through the new "berry mutation" mechanic, which I had forgot even existed. As such, I've changed the secondary item slash from Leftovers to Salac Berry and instead gave Leftovers a mention in Set Details. I actually think that Salac Berry might deserve the primary slash over Life Orb, but I'd like to get an opinion or two on that.
  7. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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  8. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    I discussed a few changes on IRC. The SubSD set has been restructured to a more dedicated Swords Dance set with Substitute as a secondary slash and Salac Berry moved to Set Details. The Choice Scarf set has also been changed so that Earthquake is the primary coverage move, and X-Scissor has taken a backseat to Rock Slide in the fourth slot. These changes were made after PK's check, but I asked him about it and he approved, so I'll try to get this thing written up tonight or tomorrow. Until then, let me know if anything else needs to be changed!
  9. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    AC rock polish on the SD set alongside a Adamant nature as its strong enough to utilize a RP boost if adamant imo.

    Everything else is solid nice work! :)
  10. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Rock Polish will probably just stay in Other Options unless QC decides otherwise. I originally had a Double Booster set listed, but after a discussion on IRC, it was decided that the set was just too hard to set up and too hard to sweep with given the popularity of priority moves. It can still function I suppose, but I'm not sure if it deserves anything past Other Options.

    At any rate, this is written up now and ready for the third QC check!
  11. Hollywood

    Hollywood 12/10 personality
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    Thoughts on Life Orb mention somewhere in the Stealth Rock set? I realize it's not much different on paper than the mixed set if it runs Life Orb, just with Stealth Rock used instead of Hidden Power Ice, but I've found while using it that the extra power is really, really nice. Aside from that, I've never even considered bothering with Focus Sash because most of the spinblockers that fit into offensive teams (Aegislash and Gengar, primarily), can't safely switch into the most common Spinner, Excadrill, and Defog is pretty relevant as well. Having said that, just saccing Terrakion early on in the game is usually a pretty bad idea, and its cool defensive typing lets it set up Stealth Rock on a decent amount of forced switches throughout the match, even with Life Orb recoil coming into play.
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    I agree with Treecko. You can't sac Terrakion on turn 2 anymore, unless you make sure you got rid of their Defog user. Not only this, but Terrakion has a pretty fast Taunt which can help keeping up your hazards against all the common Defog users, aside from Lati@s. And against those two, assuming you used SR as they came in, you can also use Stone Edge if they use Defog, which does a ton with LO and OHKOes with just a bit of previous damage, which means that if you have a faster trapper waiting to KO Latias (ScarfTar, Mega Absol, Weavile) you either get to remove their Defog user while having an almost untouched Terrakion, or you get to keep your rocks up.

    tl;dr

    Lefties and LO for main items on the SR set, Sash to AC.

    Oh and Agent Gibbs, please mention in the overview that Aegislash is everywhere, and one of the best Terrakion counters. For the same reason, i would tone down the ''Rock + Fighting coverage is as great as ever'' part, as Aegislash is not a Pokemon you want to give free switches to and makes Terrakion users think twice before using a STAB move.

    EDIT: And why the hell isn't EQ mandatory on the CB set? Without it, CB Terrakion fails to do anything against any team with Aegislash on it. Slash X-Scissor on the last slot.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  13. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    alexwolf: The X-Scissor thing was actually a mix-up on my part. I originally planned to have it slashed next to Quick Attack, but I accidentally slashed it next to Earthquake without realizing it. That's fixed now. Besides that, I've toned down the hype over Terrakion's coverage in the Overview, given Aegislash a specific mention in the Overview as well, reordered the items as you and Treecko suggested, and reformatted the wording of the Stealth Rock set sections to accommodate these item changes. Let me know if anything else needs to be changed.
  14. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

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    While i agree that Suicide leads got a lot more risky this generation due to defog and excadrill i still think that Focus Sash is better than Leftovers on SR Terrakion. I just don't see how Lefties really help terrakion to survive longer it resists SR and even though it got ok bulk its typing just sucks and most things can just flat out OHKO it with SE moves or do so much damage that the little amount recoverd by lefties isn't going to matter and the occasions where the little amount recovered helps to survive a stray priority attack are pretty rare. If you don't want the LO recoil and dislike Focus Sash, Air Baloon seems like a more viable alternative to be able to set-up SR in front of Lando-T/Hippowdon etc.
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  15. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    Yeah even things like Chople Berry would be better than Leftovers imo
  16. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    It's true that there are other good options, such as Balloon or Chopple Berry, but Leftovers is the most reliable out of any of them, aside from LO. Terrakion takes relatively well resisted STAB strong attacks (eg Fire Blast from Heatran) or neutral moderately strong STAB attacks (eg Skarmory's Brave Bird). Also, Terrakion is an ok switch-in to most Genesect sets, which U-turn constantly, so Lefties really takes off some pressure of Terrakion. Add to this other common Pokemon that Terrakion checks, such as Heatran, Tyranitar, Volcarona, and even Kyurem-B (whose Sub + Lefties set can't OHKO Kyurem-B with Earth Power and gets OHKOed back by CC). Finally, if you keep Terrakion healthy enough it can take a hit from Pokemon such as CB Talonflame, +1 BU Talonflame, and +2 Mega Pinsir, and OHKO back, which is crucial for offensive teams that often struggle against those.

    All those things, combined with the fact that Terrakion might need to come in and set up SR multiple times, make Leftovers a great item worthy of being slashed in the main set imo.
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  17. Jukain

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    Terrakion doesn't really set up SR more than once in all of my BW and XY experience. Once and it's done (generally on the brink of death).
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  18. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    So what's the consensus on the item arrangement? Personally, I agree with alexwolf that Leftovers is the best item for a more consistent set. However, I'm also leaning a bit towards slashing Life Orb first and Leftovers second. The extra power just does such a great job of making Terrakion more dangerous and forcing more switches, and I've honestly found that Terrakion just feels more fulfilled when he can hit stuff really hard with Life Orb-boosted attacks after setting Stealth Rock. I'm also tempted to slash Earthquake next to Swords Dance or even over it as it lets Terrakion nail incoming Aegislash and serve as a pretty decent wallbreaker after laying down its hazard. Alternatively, I could add Stealth Rock to the Set Details of the Life Orb Attacker set for those cases where a more offensive approach is preferred, but then you'd have to give up Hidden Power Ice (which eliminates Terrakion's ability to lure and KO Landorus-T and Gliscor, one of the biggest perks of the set) or Earthquake (which leaves you stopped cold by Aegislash and thus hurts Terrakion's ability to wallbreak).

    Thoughts?
    Shurtugal likes this.
  19. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Then you didn't set up against the right Pokemon. There are plenty of Pokemon that Terrakion outspeeds and OHKOes, and there are plenty of Pokemon that can check Terrakion pretty damn well, which means that the opponent has little reason not to switch out of Terrakion if their Pokemon is threatened early game. I'm not saying that Terrakion needs or can set up SR multiple times in every game, but i have played plenty of games where Terrakion has set up SR twice, and Lefties helped a lot to do this.

    Agent Gibbs, Lefties and LO are almost equally viable imo, so in this case the choice is up to you, the writer of the analysis. We could argue semantics for days, but it's not worth it when both items are great choices.
  20. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Alright, I went ahead and swapped the items. It's not a huge deal, but I've found Life Orb just a little better since a Life Orb-boosted Terrakion is just such a serious offensive threat.

    EDIT: Just letting everyone know that I'll be leaving tomorrow morning to visit family until the night of Christmas Eve. I'll try to make any changes recommended by the end of tonight, but anything after that might have to wait until late Christmas Eve since I'll have very limited internet access until then.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  21. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    It's been about a week since this thread last received any attention, so I'm bumping it. I just need one last QC check so that I can move on the the GP stage.

    Sorry if this seems impatient, but I just want to get as much done on this as possible before I leave again for a few days around New Years Eve.
  22. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
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    We have talked about this quite extensively, and I'm happy with where it ended up

    QC APPROVED 3/3
  23. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Thanks for the last QC check, DU! This is now ready for GP.
  24. sirndpt

    sirndpt
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    just putting it here for future reference: order of tags is ability/ item/ EVs/ nature
    oh also (forgot to change this above and i'm lazy now) - remove all the ability: tag things on all the sets, as it's not needed on pkmn with only one ability :)

    gp 1/2 awesome, your explanations were really clear and the entire thing flowed pretty nicely
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
  25. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Alright, thanks! I've made the recommended changes, as well as the examples you requested. Also:

    Yeah, that was kind of the best we could come up with on IRC, but I agree that it seems strange to recommend a pure Swords Dance set on a set focused primarily on Stealth Rock. I went ahead and added the Swords Dance mention to the Set Details of the Life Orb set for use over HP Ice, but I made it clear that that with HP Ice, you lose the ability to act as a Landorus-T and Gliscor lure. Here's the exact quote:

    Also, we had agreed on IRC last night to add Salac Berry to Other Options after the pure Swords Dance set was removed, but I completely forgot to add it. I've added a mention for it right after the mention of Rock Polish. Here is the quote:

    If anyone wants me to change something about this, whether it be with the quality or the grammar/prose, just let me know.

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