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That Stylish Guy With The Scarf

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Eggs and Bacon, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. Eggs and Bacon

    Eggs and Bacon

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    THE SEXY MOTHERFUCKER WITH THE STYLISH SCARF


    Hi everybody, I wanted to join this community but I'm kinda shy so I wanted to do something like this.
    This is a team that was originally inspired when I saw Mantyke using a Butterfree. A fuckin' Butterfree.
    [​IMG]
    Just look at that sexy motherfucker. Ash didn't realize Butterfree's true potential because he is a (BAN ME PLEASE).

    The team is so simple, Scarf Butterfree sleeps everything with Fake Out support, then use my fat ass hard hitters to smash the other team as quickly as possible. The members are all bulky hard hitters because having frail members ussually wasn't worth it since most of the time the enemies are sleeping.
    There is another reason, the team was Trick Room weak, if they managed to set it up... well... I was done for. So this team can go in Butterfree mode and Trick room mode. It also helped in other macht-ups, like rain, where Ludicolo can smash the poor butterfly or stop it with Fake out.
    I was going to add my team building process but I don't remember anymore, I used weird shit like Jynx to bring Fake Out support, Dry Skin and Skill Swap to mess with rain, there was also a Hypno, he was there to set up TR and Flatter a Special Tyranitar with Lum Berry (my worst idea)

    The team at a glance
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The team in detail:

    [​IMG]
    Butterfree (M) @[​IMG]
    Trait: Compoundeyes
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Tailwind
    - U-turn
    - Toxic

    [​IMG]
    Hariyama (M) @[​IMG]
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk / 124 Def / 132 SDef
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Close Combat
    - Ice Punch
    - Detect
    - Fake Out

    Butterfree is a team player, imagine that scarf Breloom, but faster, and with another set of resistances and more SWAG, he is a threat, he can fuck you over if you let him work, he is a boss, he is gonna bang your wife.
    Well, the moveset is pretty weird, but don't be confused, Sleep Powder if the only thing it will ever use, the other moves are just fillers, Tailwind can give me a boost if neccesary, U-turn lets me get the fuck out of there if the macht-up is really bad, it doesn't matter if I don't invest in Atk because Butterfree U-turn's still hit like Choice Banded hits from Kyurem-B, he's that powerful and Toxic lets me cripple something, I was going to try Rage Powder but... meh.
    Hariyama is Butterfree's best friend, you can use Hitmontop, but when Trick Room is up it's usually over, Hariyama can work in and out of TR, and is my usual lead alongside Cresselia if I decide to go full TR.
    Another thing that Hariyama has over Hitmontop is that huge Atk stat, usually he can Fake Out, Butterfree sleeps something, then kill the sleeping guy while Butterfree sleeps the other one.

    [​IMG]
    Metagross @[​IMG]
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Meteor Mash
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Earthquake
    - Protect

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @[​IMG]
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 160 SAtk / 96 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Protect

    I needed some bulky hard hitters that can work, Rotom-W and Metagross works wonders, the standards are pretty standard, Rotom carries HP Grass only for Gastrodon because I can't rely just on Hariyama to smash it or Butterfree to sleep it, the EV spread lets Rotom at least take two Dragon Pulses from Kingdra a two T-bolts from Timid Zapdos, this is because he is usually used againts Rain teams and I can't really take Butterfree in there.
    Steel Gem Meteor Mash, a "fuck you" button, it's so powerful, I'm not carrying priority because he is usually in Trick Room or everything is sleeping and the extra coverage is always nice, the EV spread is standard so I don't think I really need to explain it.

    [​IMG]
    Cresselia (F) @[​IMG]
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SAtk
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Ice Beam
    - Psyshock
    - Trick Room
    - Light Screen

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (F) @[​IMG]
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 Atk / 36 Def
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Crunch
    - Low Kick
    - Rock Slide
    - Protect

    I wanted Cresselia to be a threat, you might recognize the set, I stole it from Ray's team and it's pretty awesome, the EV spread lets it OHKO Salamence and Psyshock beats those Specially defensive builds for Hitmontop and Conkeldurr that these cool kids that these days like.
    Trick Room lets me get the upper hand againts faster teams and Light Screen it's just a filler but it has been kinda decent.
    T-Tar is as standard as it gets, the EV Spread lets it take a unbooster Meteor Mash from Metagross and live to tell the tale, Brave to get the weather up and all that good stuff, I wanted to be a hip and use Ice Punch, Fire Punch or... something but it works these way so I'm leaving it like this.

    Conclusion.
    *Use Butterfree, SWAG.​

    Importable for easy stealing:
    Show Hide
    Butterfree (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Compoundeyes
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Tailwind
    - U-turn
    - Toxic

    Hariyama (M) @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 124 Def / 132 SDef
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Close Combat
    - Ice Punch
    - Detect
    - Fake Out

    Metagross @ Steel Gem
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Meteor Mash
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Earthquake
    - Protect

    Rotom-W @ Electric Gem
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 160 SAtk / 96 SDef
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Protect

    Cresselia (F) @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SAtk
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Ice Beam
    - Psyshock
    - Trick Room
    - Light Screen

    Tyranitar (F) @ Dark Gem
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 Atk / 36 Def
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Crunch
    - Low Kick
    - Rock Slide
    - Protect
  2. The Knights of Wario Land

    The Knights of Wario Land

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    819
    I know this might be a typo or something, but why do you have Flame Orb Thick Fat Hariyama when the ability should be Guts?

    Onto the team itself, I notice that you have absolutely no Fire-type coverage anywhere. With Scizor and Ferrothorn omnipresent across this metagame, it is absolutely essential that you have at least one Fire-type move on your team, or else they're gonna give you a rough. Sure, Hariyama might hit either of them hard with Close Combat, but both Scizor and Ferrothorn are usually EV'd right to live a CC, hit back hard with either Acrobatics or Power Whip, then stall Hariyama for its burn to faint it. For that, I would suggest you go with Fire Punch on Tyranitar over Low Kick. Sure, you lose coverage against Heatran, but Rotom-W and Metagross have you plenty covered.

    I don't understand why you'd lead with Hariyama and Butterfree in the first place, even after Tailwind, Hariyama won't outspeed much, and most higher-leveled players can see the Fake Out / Sleep Powder strategy coming, and work around it. For example, an opposing Hitmontop / Thundurus lead can Fake Out your Hariyama, and then Thundurus can Taunt Butterfree to force a switch. For your main lead, Cresselia with Mental Herb / Hariyama is a much more efficient strategy, as you're almost guaranteed to get Trick Room up and let Hariyama sweep.

    Cresselia should never be carrying a "filler move", due to it having so many tools in its belt. Your team is very much threatened against Amoonguss and Breloom, and burns from Sableye, so Safeguard could work out for it. If you don't feel like giving up Low Kick on Tyranitar, Hidden Power Fire could be another good option, although it requires more Special Attack EVs to get KO's against Pokemon that take 4x damage from it.

    Metagross should have Bullet Punch or Ice Punch over Zen Headbutt, Cresselia deals with Fighting-types like Hitmontop well enough already that Zen Headbutt is a bit redundant.

    In my opinion I really don't think that Butterfree adds very much to your team besides sleeping, I would swap it out for a different Pokemon.
  3. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    301
    I'm not sure why you've chosen to run a scarf on butterfree, it has a ton of very common weakness; Rock, Ice, and Fire namely. Also the choice scarf is very limiting so I'd recommend running a focus sash so you could at least have two turns if it isn't attacked on the first turn. I'm agreeing with "Knights of Wario Land" butterfree is a bit out of touch with rest of the team it's trying to achieve too much with too little its' stats are sub par and to be fast it has to have a scarf to out speed key threats to your team, there are more reliable pokemon for spreading sleep or setting up tailwind so I too think you should replace it. Whimsicott, tornadus, and amoonguss spring to mind.

    Fire blast on tyranitar would be beneficial but then I'd recommend running a naughty nature and 48 speed investment so it can out speed minimum speed scizor. The reason for fire blast is it can still ohko scizor and isn't affected by intimidate.

    On cresselia I would use protect or safe guard over light screen, as light screen isn't the most useful move in doubles and can be worked around by using physical attacks. Whilst safe guard can help stop status afflictions and protect softens predictions.

    Hope I helped and good luck.

    Chenkovsky.
  4. Eggs and Bacon

    Eggs and Bacon

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Oh, thanks for the rate! On T-Tar I will try Fire Punch or Fire Blast like the guy from above suggested, on a closer inspection I can fin Scizor and Ferrothorn being nuisances If I don't sleep them. Fuck Tailwind, I never, ever, ever, ever use Tailwind, but I guess it's true, usually in macht-ups like Hitmontop-Thundurus Butterfree gets the fuck out of there with U-turn, that's why it's there, to get out of bad macht-ups, I might try a Focus Sash, on Cresselia I will try Safeguard and Mental Herb and see how that works out.
    Anyways, I ended up fixing the typo, thanks for pointing that out.
    Aaaand, for Metagross, I will try that too, thanks for the rate guys. :'3
  5. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    301
    I completely missed this; Guts+sandstorm is 18% of your hariyamas' health gone every turn as well as any damage you may take, would you consider running a different item on it? Then if you do get status'd it would just be another boost.
  6. Golden Piloswine

    Golden Piloswine

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Messages:
    432
    With the amount of Fake Out users who can break this sash, I would keep the scarf, after all RMT's are not made to change was he supposedly built the team off of. Another thing I'd like to note, Butterfree is a major taunt bait, and fake out bait, it's heavily underused so due to the player's mind, they'll go for the Fake Out/Taunt on Butterfree simply because they do not know what your gonna do with it, another reason I do not approve of sash, and leads me into Butterfree.

    Butterfree: Lots of Fake Out users faster than Hariyama. =/ I know you want to use Butterfree because of sleep, and you like it, but in VGC there are plenty of better sleep inducers like Breloom. Can't do much on the speed factor, but it's less of a Taunt/Fake Out bait than your sexy motherf***er with the scarf.
    This couldn't be more true, Breloom is also a Taunt bait, but as said before 'less'.

    On to some other issues.
    What does Cress' ev's allow it to survive and kill? I think low kick is better on T-Tar because the ever so common Scizor will plow through it with Bullet Punch. If you want you can try Cybertron's cress:

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Cresselia@ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 132 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 120 Spd
    Modest

    Psyshock
    Icy Wind
    Hidden Power (Fire)
    Trick

    Admitting Specs can leave you stuck, but it's really good to pack on the power. Great move types, diversity, and leaving the opponent stuck with specs is always a good thing. Or you can go for Expert Belt, and swap Trick with Protect. Your going for more bulky, and it's nice to have a hard hitter.


    I agree that Butterfree is not the best. I'm going to do my best to leave it on your team, because there is no point in helping a team if it is no longer theirs, by the time your done. In this case losing Butterfree will completely change your team due to the fact that it's no longer supporting the thing it was meant to.

    This is the best I can do, without doing the above.
  7. Eggs and Bacon

    Eggs and Bacon

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    I'm really thinking of trying out Breloom and Hitmontop to replace Hariyama and change Cresselia's moveset to the one you gave me, but I have to squeeze Trick Room over there to reverse TR in case I can't stop them from setting it up. Breloom has nice Synergy with Metagross only sharing a Fire weakness, Rotom can take the Flying, Ice and Fire attacks that may threaten him and Metagross takes the Poison and Psychic hits.
    Maybe even make a kinda fast Hitmontop to outspeed other Hitmontops, I have a lot to test, I will update once I'm done, and thanks for rating, It is really helpful. :)

    It can OHKO Salamence, I don't remember what it is supposed to survive.

    I really want to make this the best team I can, so I will kick him out if I really need to.
  8. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    301
    On a focus sash set you'd be able to protect on the first turn to negate fake out whilst taunt is an unavoidable threat to any support pokemon. At least this way it has the potential to put something to sleep and then set up a tailwind. Anyway I'm not saying this thing has to go I'm just saying it has better options, as well as there being better options in terms of pokemon.

    Cresselia defense investment I've calc'd it against the most common super effective physical attackers and if it were to survive the hits it wasn't due to the investment.
  9. Golden Piloswine

    Golden Piloswine

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Messages:
    432
    Ok I see. Now this is what I'm gonna do.

    Like I do with all RMT's that would like to change their strategy, I will suggest making the most standard team possible with these components:

    o Steel Type
    o Ice move
    o Fire move
    o Type to resist water
    o Type to resist fire
    o Fake Out user
    o Fighting type
    o Weather counter
    o No more than 2 pokemon with the same weakness

    Then play with it and add more unorthodox components. That should give you a good team for now. An example is Cybertron's Philly Regionals team. Very well constructed, meets criteria, and is a good start to building your own team. If you remove Butterfree, then I'd suggest starting over, because the team you'd have left is pretty much the shell of what once was. Good luck with building a team, and update this RMT when ready!! :D
  10. Eggs and Bacon

    Eggs and Bacon

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    It's been like... 2 days, I tested fuck tons of things, so here we go.
    o I tried most Fake Out user to replace Hariyama, even Dewgong, but Kangaskhan took to the place, with Scrappy, Fake Out and enough speed to outspeed slow Fake out user's and leads with two ghost types he was able to stop Trick Room leads and a lot of other things
    o I added Aaron's Cress, It was pretty useful, letting Butterfree get a swicht to Cresselia to beat the Hitmontop + Thundurus-I leads that annoyed me, and then Icy Wind that Thundurus or Psyshock the Hitmontop
    o I realized that Butterfree after showing a Scarf and a sleeping move he was instantly a threat and my opponents wanted to kill him as fast as they could, I wanted to toy around with that idea and that got me to use substitute + fake out
    o The team started to change, I wanted to add the things you said, those requirements for standard teams, Sub Heatran replacing Metagross, a Sub T-tar with Lum berry and sub replacing Fire Punch because I have Heatran, Sub Dragon Gem Latios replacing Cress.
    This was going pretty good, but Kangaskhan was replaced with Hitmontop, Hitmontop's Intimidate+ Fake out was used to force a Swicht and set-up a sub with a partner.
    o The team was almost complete, I needed some Ice moves and... something to stop TR from going up, due the nature of my team I didn't wanted to use a Cress with Ice beam, I decided to go for a Roar/Whirlwind user with an Ice move and some offensive presence, you don't know how much I wanted to keep Butterfree, I even used Whirlwind with a Focus sash, but it was useless, It was limiting me, using T-tar and Sash Butterfree at the same time was a no-no even If I don't use them together, let's just say that I protect on the first turn, now I can't Fake out with the partner unless I swicht it in on the turn that Butterfree protects and with all those Fake outs, Taunts, Spread Moves and Butterfree's low speed it was usual underwhelming, I needed something to stop TR and Butterfree was the most useless at this point, after seeing the mons that could use those things I decided to go with Suicune, a offensive Suicune with Roar, Scald, Ice Beam and Protect. The team was complete and was running way better than before.

    LET'S SEEEE.

    Heatran (F) @ Fire Gem
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 52 HP / 252 SAtk / 204 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Earth Power
    - Heat Wave
    - Protect
    - Substitute

    Heatran is awesome, with his typing he can force switches and get up a sub, there are plenty of chances to get up a sub and spam Heat Waves.
    The EV's let him outspeed max speeds with base 70, more importantly Hitmontop, this little guy isn't rival for Heatran, he can force Hitmontop to use CC, get the Def. Drops and hopelly go for the KO next turn or wait for a partner to kill him.

    Hitmontop (M) @ Fight Gem
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 140 HP / 252 Atk / 116 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Fake Out
    - Close Combat
    - Sucker Punch
    - Wide Guard

    The soul of my team, he doesn't have as much SWAG as Butterfree, but I can roll with it, pretty standard shit that doesn't really need to be explained.
    The EV's are made to outspeed every fuckin' Togekiss that I've seen, Faking it out before he can use Follow me was huge so my Suicune can roar the TR user, the rest just goes to HP and Atk.

    Latios (M) @ Dragon Gem
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Substitute
    - Protect
    - Psychic

    I love how many people swicht right out to a Steel type/Cress just to see how I sub on their faces, If you are man enough you can even swicht to Heatran to intercept it and keep the momentum going, the Spread is just standard.

    Tyranitar (M) @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Attack / 6 Sp. Def
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Speed) 0 Speed IV
    - Rock Slide
    - Crunch
    - Protect
    - Substitute

    With Hitmontop and Heatran right beside him I didn't feel like using a coverage move, this thing fucks all over things that can't really pressure him, like Cress+Thundurus, the brave nature was just a plus, It can get up a sub against TR teams and then be 'faster' if they really decide to put it up, it can also kill usual TR users, sooooo I can stop them from using it with Hitmontop/Suicune or use it for myself with T-tar, It is pretty nice, I disliked Dark Gem at the end, since I usually use T-tar to sponge special hits the berry was the best option at the end.

    Suicune @ Wacan Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SpAtk / 6 Sp. Def
    Modest Nature (+SpAtk, -Atk)
    - Roar
    - Ice Beam
    - Protect
    - Scald

    I was going to make a EV spread for Suicune, but I don't really know what to add, It has been working pretty darn good, It usually stops TR but besides that It doesn't really see much use, if someone can suggest a guy to stop TR, has nice synergy and maybe and Ice move I would appreciate it.

    Rotom-W stills does the same and it works, I didn't feel like adding it in this part because it's like saying the same stuff all over again.

    Let's talk about leads.

    Hitmontop + T-tar

    Pretty good lead against those using Cresselia+ Thundurus leads, fuck Parafusion, that is so gay, T-tar can threaten both to force a Swicht and set up a sub, but be careful of opposing intimidates because they can turn T-tar on a useless fat guy before he can sub and put you in a bad spot.
    It works against TR, since my Top is fast it can usually Fake the partner and Set-up a sub while the TR user just helps out T-tar.

    Hitmontop + Latios

    Yup. You have to be scared of Latios smashing something with a Draco, that can be easily abused by using sub, I laugh when these japanese guys try to play around Latios Draco Meteors.

    Hitmontop + Heatran

    If the other side is not carrying rain or a team full of checks to Tran this can work, If Heatran can get at least one bad Macht-up Hitmontop can try to stop the partner to let Heatran get up a sub and start Heat Waving the shit out of everything

    T-tar + Latios

    This is what happens when you don't carry a steel type, T-tar and Latios can wreck havoc you don't use a steel type of you can lead with Heatran + Latios to threaten the steel types that stop Latios and T-tar, pretty cool overall, Latios is just Latios, killing the shit out of everything.

    Hitmontop + Suicune

    Fuck TR.

    WEEEEEELL, this isn't the team I used to love but it works better for me.
    Thanks for your help, everyone.
  11. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    301
    The teams looking pretty solid, but your suicunes' set needs some work. I would recommend these changes;
    Show Hide
    Suicune @ Wacan Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream--seems legit--> pressure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SpAtk / 6 Sp. Def ----> 248HP/192Def/60SpD
    Modest Nature (+SpAtk, -Atk) ----> calm (+SpD,-Atk)
    - Roar
    - Ice Beam ----> icy wind/tail wind
    - Protect
    - Scald


    Again hope I helped.
  12. tlyee61

    tlyee61

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    375
    what do those Suicune's EVs help it survive? also, you're wasting EVs anyway. 244 HP EVs and 196 Def EVs give it the same HP and 1 point higher defense.
  13. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    301
    At level 50 there are 8 EV's to the stat. The ev's add up to 504 which is a multiple of 8. And BTW it lives all of these:
    Show Hide
    252Atk Guts Hariyama (+Atk) Fake Out vs 248HP/196Def Water Absorb Suicune (Neutral): 8% - 10% (34 - 41 HP). Guaranteed 12HKO.
    252Atk Guts burned Hariyama (+Atk) Close Combat vs 248HP/196Def Water Absorb Suicune (Neutral): 56% - 66% (229 - 270 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252Atk Guts burned Conkeldurr (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 248HP/196Def Water Absorb Suicune (Neutral): 39% - 46% (160 - 189 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    252Atk Guts burned Conkeldurr (+Atk) Hammer Arm vs 248HP/196Def Water Absorb Suicune (Neutral): 52% - 62% (213 - 252 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    252SpAtk Flash Fire Chandelure (+SAtk) Energy Ball vs 248HP/60SpDef Water Absorb Suicune (+SpDef): 39% - 46% (158 - 188 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    252SpAtk Virizion (+SAtk) Giga Drain vs 248HP/60SpDef Water Absorb Suicune (+SpDef): 40% - 47% (162 - 192 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    252SpAtk Grass Gem Virizion (+SAtk) Giga Drain vs 248HP/60SpDef Water Absorb Suicune (+SpDef): 59% - 70% (240 - 284 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
  14. Golden Piloswine

    Golden Piloswine

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Messages:
    432
    Um... Lol why did you say he survives fake out? That's kind of a given. And is that all? There are plenty of other threats that don't use guts.
  15. tlyee61

    tlyee61

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    375
    I don't know if you understand what I said in the previous post. With that spread, you can easily optimize it by making the HP EVs invested 244 (to get the same exact stat) and making the Defense EVs 196 (as you have done with the above calculations). Also, you still have extra EVs to use since 244 + 196 + 60 is only 500. you can invest those last 8 all in HP or all in SpDef to get higher stats too.

    WALL OF TEXT INCOMING:

    252+ SpA Cresselia Psyshock vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 40-48 (19.41 - 23.3%) -- possible 5HKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Cresselia Psyshock vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 58-70 (28.15 - 33.98%) -- 1.76% chance to 3HKO
    252+ Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 58-69 (28.15 - 33.49%) -- 93.12% chance to 3HKO after weather
    252+ Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 58-69 (28.15 - 33.49%) -- 95% chance to 3HKO after weather
    252+ Atk Tyranitar Rock Slide vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 55-66 (26.69 - 32.03%) -- 46.8% chance to 3HKO after weather (single target)
    252+ Atk Tyranitar Rock Slide vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 42-49 (20.38 - 23.78%) -- possible 4HKO after weather
    252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 36-43 (17.47 - 20.87%) -- possible 5HKO
    252+ Atk Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 58-70 (28.15 - 33.98%) -- 1.76% chance to 3HKO
    252+ Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 58-69 (28.15 - 33.49%) -- 0.02% chance to 3HKO
    252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 54-64 (26.21 - 31.06%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 72-85 (34.95 - 41.26%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (single target)
    252 Atk Jolly Garchomp Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 66-78 (32.03 - 37.86%) -- 92.14% chance to 3HKO
    252 Atk Jolly Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 52-63 (25.24 - 30.58%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 64-76 (31.06 - 36.89%) -- 75.37% chance to 3HKO
    +2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 127-151 (61.65 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    MY FAVE MON VIRIZIONNNNN: 252 Atk Virizion Leaf Blade vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 92-110 (44.66 - 53.39%) -- 35.16% chance to 2HKO
    252+ Atk Virizion Leaf Blade vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 102-120 (49.51 - 58.25%) -- 96.48% chance to 2HKO
    252+ Atk Fighting Gem Hitmontop Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 102-121 (49.51 - 58.73%) -- 98.83% chance to 2HKO
    252 SpA Dragon Gem Latios Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Suicune: 150-177 (72.81 - 85.92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Latios Psyshock vs. 244 HP / 196 Def Suicune: 52-63 (25.24 - 30.58%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    0 SpA Electric Gem Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Wacan Berry Suicune: 81-96 (39.32 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (standard bulky thundurus)
    252 SpA Electric Gem Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Wacan Berry Suicune: 99-117 (48.05 - 56.79%) -- 85.16% chance to 2HKO
    252 SpA Electric Gem Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Wacan Berry Suicune: 109-130 (52.91 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (this is the same as specs)
    252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Wacan Berry Suicune: 97-114 (47.08 - 55.33%) -- 74.61% chance to 2HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Wacan Berry Suicune: 109-130 (52.91 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Suicune: 138-164 (66.99 - 79.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Suicune: 126-149 (61.16 - 72.33%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Suicune: 74-87 (35.92 - 42.23%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Suicune: 79-95 (38.34 - 46.11%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ SpA Abomasnow Giga Drain vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Suicune: 96-114 (46.6 - 55.33%) -- 62.5% chance to 2HKO
    252+ SpA Life Orb Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Suicune: 87-105 (42.23 - 50.97%) -- 3.13% chance to 2HKO
    252+ SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Suicune: 67-81 (32.52 - 39.32%) -- 99.71% chance to 3HKO
    +2 252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Suicune: 132-156 (64.07 - 75.72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Suicune: 67-79 (32.52 - 38.34%) -- 98.93% chance to 3HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Wacan Berry Suicune: 87-103 (42.23 - 50%) -- 0.39% chance to 2HKO
    252 SpA Electric Gem Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Wacan Berry Suicune: 88-105 (42.71 - 50.97%) -- 2.34% chance to 2HKO
    I think he was trying to say that it survives Hariyama's Fake Out + guts CC. haha I was kinda confused at first too.

    Also, you might want to consider using a swagger-lum combo with cress and meta in TR. for now, just usze Ray's spread for Meta.
  16. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    301
    Yeah what I was showing was fake out then gut cc, I should probably clarified that. I was looking at trickroom threats + virizion as its probably the most dangerous grass type. The reason I was mainly looking at the physical side of trick room threats is bar Latios he doesn't have a reliable fighting type check. And once trickroom is up Latios won't be to much use.
  17. tlyee61

    tlyee61

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    375
    he does have metagross with zen headbutt, but it isn't very reliable...
  18. Chenkovsky

    Chenkovsky

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    301
    Because just about every fighting type can 2hko it.

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