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The Avengers~ Peaked at #1 on PS

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by josman3, Jul 16, 2012.

  1. josman3

    josman3

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    Team at a glance:

    The Avengers

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    After many hundreds of hours on the PS server with this team, I am finally going to "retire" it, after peaking at an ACRE of 2170 and staying in 3rd place for a long time. It has become less effective against the new onslaught of BW2 'mons, and will need be modified greatly in order to reach its former glory. Without anymore hesitation, here goes:

    I started 5th Gen about 6 months ago, after 2 and a half years on 4th Gen. Clearly the change came as a surprise, with team view and new abilities/items, etc. So I went with what I thought was effective after spectating many battles; balanced rain offense.

    [​IMG]

    Nick Furytoed (Politoed) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Perish Song
    - Protect

    An almost obvious choice for a rain team and takes place as the initiator Nick Fury; Politoed with drizzle. I chose this set for a few major reasons. Firstly, I needed a reasonably bulky, reliable pokemon, which may have to take a few hits. This comes in handy, especially when the other team is running a Sand Stream or a Drought pokemon. Secondly, it works as a reasonably good phazer. Switching in to a sweeper which has danced up a little bit, and then forcing it to stop its rampage through Perish Song and Protect, has saved me multiple times.

    I chose Scald over Hydro-Pump for consistency, as in the rain, it still 2-3HKO's almost anything apart from SpDEF walls/Resistant types. Finally it can be used as a Sleep/Status-Taker/Sacrifice, if the opponent isn't running any contrasting weather inducers.

    Protect allows it to switch into pokemon trying to use Solarbeam, which both gives Politoed a free turn of healing, but also helps in the weather war.

    [​IMG]

    Iron Manthorn (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Relaxed Nature
    - Power Whip
    - Gyro Ball
    - Stealth Rock
    - Leech Seed

    The tank of the team, with a colour scheme matching Mr Stark himself, here to absorb hits and setup SR, breaking Multiscale and making switches unpleasant, while having some nice damage with it's powerful dual stab attacks. Leech seed is for some nice stall recovery. It is the main response to bulky stalling Gastrodon with Power Whip 1HKOing, clearing the way for Gyarados to sweep.

    It forms a nice defensive core with Starmie, being able to resist Grass/Electric types which are good against Starmie, and Starmie resists both Fighting and Fire, Ferrothorn's main weakness.

    Not much more to say about Ferrothorn.

    [​IMG]

    Thor's dog (Jolteon) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Thunder
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Jolteon is a nice pokemon to predict with. If either Gyarados or Politoed (or Starmie) is threatened with an electric type, Jolteon can switch in, get healed, and Volt Switch out, maintaining offensive momentum. It makes use of a massively powerful 100% Acc STAB Thunder, but if predicting a Gliscor or Landorus (or any ground type) switch, Hidden Power Ice allows an easy KO. Hidden Power Ice is also useful for Grass Pokemon in Drought teams.

    Running Scarf and Modest still allows it to outspeed almost anything people would normally put a scarf on, or anything with +1 speed. It uses this mostly as a revenge killer on pokemon such as Moxie-Scarfed Salamence or DD Dragonite, which can wreak havoc to many teams.

    Note: DD Dnite does 81.91 - 96.67% with E-speed after a DD, which allows Jolteon to easily dispatch it with HP Ice if its multiscale is broken.

    It works nicely as a Volt Switch scout, to predict a weather inducer switch in, allowing Politoed to bring back the rain, and hit back hard on Tyranitar, Ninetales and Hippowdon, almost always forcing a switch.

    [​IMG]

    Captain Americados (Gyarados) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Ice Fang

    Gyarados forms a very nice offensive core with Jolteon, covering most types between them offensively, while watching each others weaknesses. Jolteon can take electric attacks aimed at Gyarados, and due to Jolteon's relative frailty, Gyarados can take EQs and other physical moves due to it's relative bulk.

    It is one of the less used sets and can surprise people with the extra speed. It's main attacking move is Waterfall, with a huge 180 power in the rain. It almost 1HKO's anything weak to water, and with the Scarf, outspeeds everything it needs to. Moxie allows it to sweep without any setup (apart from rain perhaps), and Waterfall 2hko's Pink Blobs after a single Moxie Boost.
    Earthquake is for the pokemon such as Tentacruel and Toxicroak, and Ice Fang for Salamences and other dragons, etc.


    [​IMG]

    The Blue Widow (Starmie) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 8 HP / 248 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Psychic
    - Surf
    - Rapid Spin
    - Thunder

    Starmie is the spinner on my team, the most aggressively suited for a rain team. It is also a status absorber, given it's amazing ability. These two things combined with it's speed, make it an excellent utility pokemon for my team. Rain boosted Surf is very dangerous, as well as 100% ACC thunder abuse for coverage. Psychic is mostly for fighting pokemon such as Toxicroak/Breloom, or even Amoonguss. It has enough bulk to take a single Sucker punch from Toxicroak (unless LO'd) and easily kill it with Psychic.

    I have put in much thought about swapping Psychic for Ice Beam, giving me more dragon coverage, but makes me lose my main answer to a plethora of fighting types and a powerful stab move.

    [​IMG]

    The Incredibug Hulk (Scizor) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Superpower
    - Swords Dance

    The Hulk himself, Scizor. The most popular pokemon in OU. After a single SD, it becomes a highly effective wallbreaker or sweeper, ripping through many pokemon without a thought. It's main weaknesses are pokemon such as Skarmory, or Keldeo, resisting its STABs, and forcing a switch. It is my main weapon against dragons, grass pokemon and hail stall teams, given that it can sweep many hail stall teams singlehandedly.


    General Comments

    This team as of late has struggled, particularly against pokemon such as Amoonguss, which takes 2 hits to kill with anything on my team apart from +2 Scizor. Cele-tran hurts my team, as it as a core which can tank almost anything I can throw at it, and forcing me to predict the switches. Tornadus-t is a nightmare for my team, basically forcing me to sacrifice something, without guaranteeing a revenge kill.



    Exportable Version:
    Show Hide
    Nick Furytoed (Politoed) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Toxic
    - Perish Song
    - Protect

    Iron Manthorn (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Relaxed Nature
    - Power Whip
    - Gyro Ball
    - Stealth Rock
    - Leech Seed

    Thor's dog (Jolteon) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Shadow Ball
    - Thunder
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Captain Americados (Gyarados) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Ice Fang

    The Blue Widow (Starmie) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 8 HP / 248 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Psychic
    - Surf
    - Rapid Spin
    - Thunder

    The Incredibug Hulk (Scizor) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Superpower
    - Swords Dance
  2. josman3

    josman3

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    Reserving for threat list.
    Show Hide
    Hello
  3. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,352
    Hey Avengers. Awesome Rain team you have here. Its pretty cool to see things like Scarf Jolteon, it really does catch you off guard.

    Now for the rate. As you know I have faced you with this team quite a few times, and my team consists of a CeleTran core. I think to help you out with this core, I'd suggest using a bulkier variant of Scizor with Roost. This makes you less dependent on Starmie's Rapid Spin and allows you to keep coming into battles whenever you please. Max Speed really doesn't look like its doing much for you, as Specially Def Heatran are EVed to out speed max speed Adamant Scizor, so you wouldn't be losing out too much if you get rid of his Speed.

    Now, for your Tornadus weakness I suggest replacing Jolteon with either Zapdos or Thundurus-T. Zapdos can take Hurricane's much more easily, but I think Thundurus would be more suited for your team as it can still revenge the same things Jolteon revenged, like Scarf Mence. It also doesn't have to worry about Ground type attacks now, and it still has Volt Absorb.

    Other than that, the team looks really fun to play with. Keep up the good work Avengers!

    Thundurus set
    Show Hide
    Thundurus-T (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Hardy Nature
    - Thunder
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast


    Scizor set
    Show Hide
    Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Roost
  4. josman3

    josman3

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    Thanks for the rate SS <3
    I have a different version of this team with that exact Thundurus set, but it puts even more pressure on my Starmie for spinning support. Still I will consider it. That Scizor Set doesn't allow me to 1HKO Ferrothorn sadly, or the Pink Blobs, and I needed a Physical attacker with both versatility and wall-breaking abilities.
  5. Asek

    Asek Roll one for me
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    Messages:
    595
    Hey,
    Nothing big should be changed with this team as your peak shows that its a pretty awesome team. However to adapt to BW2 and AmoongBro in particular simply give Starmie Psyshock > Psychic. Starmie then becomes a marvelous counter to the extremely popular core with Thunder to beat Bro, Psyshock to beat Amoonguss and Surf even gets their common partner in Heatran! I have calcs below because I also believe you should replace Leftovers with Life Orb to guarantee an OHKO Amoonguss after SR and helps in general vs other defensive cores such as the aforementioned celetran.
    Show Hide
    Starmie Psychock VS Specially defensive Amoonguss (252/252) = 67.36%-79.86%. guranteed 2HKO even W/O SR

    Starmie W/ LO Psyshock VS same Amoonguss = 88.19%- 103.47%. Guranteed OHKO with SR

    Starmie Thunder VS Physically Defensive Slowbro (252/252) = 66.5%-78.66% Guranteed 2HKO

    Starmie W/LO Thunder VS Same Slowbro = 86.8%- 102.03%. 93.75% chance to OHKO after SR

    Starmie Surf VS Specially Defensive Heatran (252/252) = 76.17%- 90.16%. Yes i counted rain in this! After SR its a 18.75% chance to OHKO

    Yeah with Life Orb Heatran is guranteed OHKO with SR up and the minimum damage of surf is 99.48% so even without SR your pretty much guranteed OHKO anyway.


    So if you look at the calcs, even though you miss out on the longevity of Leftovers, LO can help your team adapt to BW2 so I don't think you should retire this team just yet, give it a shot in BW2 with the Starmie changes and I doubt you will be disappointed.
    GL with the team, Luvdisc'd
  6. josman3

    josman3

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    Thanks for the advice, I am trying a Starmie with Psyshock and LO atm, as well as the Thundurus-t as a Volt Switcher.

    So far so good.
  7. blunder

    blunder

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    634
    This is a pretty cool team and I have one pretty similar with an Gyarados/Jolteon/Scizor core in rain. However, I would recommend using Sub Pass Jolteon over your current set. The reason why is simple- Jolteon has almost perfect two move coverage in Thunder and Hidden Power Ice and hits hard as heck even unboosted with that base 110 SpA. The Reason I suggest SubPass over Specs is because you can achieve the victory much easier through a sweep. Here is a common screnario- Jolteon has set up a Substitute as it has forced a switch and Ferrothorn or a Bulky Ground type comes in-- In the case of Ferrothorn which is often regarded as the best Jolteon Counter, you would Baton Pass to Scizor and easily set up a Swords Dance on it's futile attacks and ready yourself for a sweep. If a bulky ground type like Gliscor comes in, you can Baton Pass straight into Gyarados, because in the rain with a Choice Scarf AND a substitute, that thing is ready to run train on any opponent. SubPass Jolteon would give you a pretty solid sweeper core and all in all wil probably be beneficial.

    Here is the set

    Jolteon @ Leftovers / Air Balloon (Personally prefer Leftovers as Jolteon is too frail for its sub to possibly live a non ground move)

    252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spd
    Nature: Timid
    -Thunder
    -Hidden power Ice
    -Substitute
    -Baton Pass


    Hope this helps and Good Luck!
  8. AB2

    AB2 is an absolute ape
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    413
    Hi, seems like a pretty cool team. At first glance, your lack of a flying resist definitely hurts you. Tornadus seems like a pretty annoying 'mon to face as you lack a decent switch into it. Although jolteon and gyarados outspeed tornadus, it acts as more of a hit and run 'mon to weaken your team (especially with regenerator). Adding a flying resistance would definitely help you in this situation. One of the best 'mons that can take a hit from tornadus in the rain is sub + calm mind jirachi. You stated that amoonguss was an annoying 'mon to face so sub + cm jira helps this team quite a lot with that issue as it sets up for free while amoonguss can't do anything back. It can sponge quite a few hits from tornadus-t and it also acts as a pretty decent wall breaker as it is not stopped by chansey / blissey or reuniclus. I think that jirachi would fit perfectly over scizor onto this team. You can still keep 2 useful steel types on this team, but now you can patch up your weakness to tornadus pretty easily. I'd run a set with substitute / calm mind / psyshock / water pulse, timid, max hp and speed with lefties on this team. Psyshock allows jirachi to muscle its way through 'mons that would be difficult for it to take on otherwise such as chansey / reuniclus / non eq gastrodon, while water pulse is useful for breaking down heatran / gliscor etc who might otherwise stop your sweep.

    As for some smaller changes, I think that running a choice scarf on jolteon is a bit redundant. Jolteon is pretty fast as it is, being able to revenge kill threats like +1 adamant gyarados and dragonite without a choice scarf. You also have a pretty nice scarfer in gyarados on this team which can be a pretty deadly cleaner later in the match. I'd simply shift jolteon to a life orb variant instead. With a set like thunder / hp ice / signal beam / volt switch, life orb, tiimid nature, and max speed and special attack you can make use of jolteon much better as it is pretty potent for cleaning up slower teams.
  9. josman3

    josman3

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    Thanks for the advice. Shadow Ball seems almost useless, given the excellent BoltBeam coverage it already has. However, this is at the sacrifice of a very useful scouting pokemon and avenger. I'll be sure to try this set out.


    The main issue with that set is that my only hard counter to Ferrothorn is Scizor, which seems to often have too much on it's hands, wall-breaking wise. I do agree with the Jolteon sentiment. It was more of a "crutch" which allowed me to survive after some bad predictions, etc. I have tried life orb jolteon before, however it often wasn't durable enough for the consistent life orb damage, as it is more of a hit and run pokemon, than a sweeper. I have tried SS's Thundurus-t idea, with reasonable success. But yes, that Jirachi set does seem like a relatively hard counter to a plethora of the new BW2 pokemon. Thank you for the advice.
  10. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Honestly, I really don't think it matters if you can't KO Chansey / Blissey or Ferrothorn in one hit, because if your Scizor is facing these guys you should usually always SD, as the worst they can do is hit you with a weak attack (because this Scizor is bulky) or T-wave you. Also, if I had a Ferrothorn out against any Scizor, chances are I'd switch, and after some residual damage, you should be able to KO both both of them. Even if you don't want to run a bulky set with Roost I really recommend you take away the Spd EVs and put them into HP. 60 Spd EVs allow you to out speed defensive Politoad, I think that's all the speed you need for a Scizor in this kind of team. Anyways, you don't need to change the team too much, which is obvious with that amazing ladder peak. Congrats man!

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