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Gen 2 The Beginner's guide to Countering Snorlax

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Iambirdjesus, Apr 17, 2014.

  1. Iambirdjesus

    Iambirdjesus

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    So, hello to everyone who plays gsc.

    Today, I'll be showing you the best way to counter drumlax and curselax, the #1 threat in GSC OU.

    The best user of STAB fighting type attacks in gen 2 is machamp, and he's the best way to beat snorlax.

    Belly Drum Snorlax
    Machamp outspeeds snorlax, and can do maximum 74% without a critical hit on cross chop.
    Most drumlax will use lovely kiss before using drum, but if you are able to land the Cross Chop, lax won't be setting up a belly drum. However, if it does get sleep talk off, you may be asleep and hax'd enough turns for lax to set up a belly drum and get off an attack. Yet most of the time, machamp is gonna easily be the victor in this match-up.

    Curse Snorlax
    Snorlax can set up curse like no tomorrow. Most of the time, a player won't be directly switching in a Snorlax on a decently healthy Machamp. Meaning if snorlax is out, you'll be switching your machamp in. With this, you'll be doing somewhere in the 43-50% to a +1 snorlax. Around 32-38% with +2. Then, lax'll be doing either rest or start attacking. Once this happens, it'd be good to either a. set up curse if you have it, or b. get a crit, which is likely.

    All in all, snorlax is the best pokemon in gen 2 ou for a reason, but it still can be countered.




    Calc List (w/ spikes and up to +3)
    Machamp Cross Chop vs. +1 Snorlax: 226-266 (43.2 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Machamp Cross Chop vs. +1 Snorlax: 226-266 (43.2 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Machamp Cross Chop vs. +3 Snorlax: 137-162 (26.1 - 30.9%) -- 7.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Machamp Cross Chop vs. +3 Snorlax: 137-162 (26.1 - 30.9%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
    Machamp Cross Chop vs. +2 Snorlax: 170-200 (32.5 - 38.2%) -- 98.5% chance to 3HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
    Machamp Cross Chop vs. +1 Snorlax: 226-266 (43.2 - 50.8%) -- 54.2% chance to 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
    Machamp Cross Chop vs. Snorlax: 338-398 (64.6 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes and Leftovers recovery
    Machamp Cross Chop vs. Snorlax: 338-398 (64.6 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery​
  2. Blue53

    Blue53

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    Time to kill that damn snorlax
    jaQ likes this.
  3. ashiemore

    ashiemore

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    There isn't enough detail on this thread. You can't describe how to beat lax in 2 paragraphs. There are countless ways to beat lax outside of Machamp, and Machamp is not nearly on every team, nor does it need to be. One could even go as far as to say Machamp isn't the best way to deal with lax, period. You didn't even mention Charm Umbreon and Growl Miltank in the Curselax one, which is pretty bad considering they are near perfect counters to it. On the other hand, Skarmory counters any set that lacks Fire Blast (you should also mention its counters depend largely on its set). In addition, Suicune takes any hit from lax other than a +6 Double-edge and can phaze it to remove any curse/belly drum boosts it may have gotten. A more appropriate title for this thread would be "A beginner's guide to beating snorlax with machamp". If you want to make an informative thread about how to beat lax, then you need no include 5 or so ways of beating it (of course depending on the set).
    P.S. I'm not some expert at GSC but I know snorlax is harder and easier to counter than just Machamp
  4. Iambirdjesus

    Iambirdjesus

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    How many noobs do you know that pick up gen 2 and do something better than Machamp.

    Not everyone can pick a steelix or suicune right away.

    Notice the "beginner" and "Best" way to beat snorlax included, maybe I can revamp it with stuff like skarmory and steelix and how they counter, but they're not as easy for newer players to use than a gold ol' 3/4 attacks machamp.
  5. Borat

    Borat

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    this is almost the exact opposite of what happens.

    machamp is actually one of the shittier "counters" to snorlax. you're better off trying to wall it as a "beginner".
  6. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    You forgot to mention the part where Machamp takes 42-49% on the switch from Double-Edge. Machamp is not a very reliable Snorlax check because of that.
    ashiemore likes this.
  7. Iambirdjesus

    Iambirdjesus

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    Ok, To ashiemore and Jorgen, I will be sure to add your thoughts to this thread before I log off for the evening. Just Let me say that most of the time a snorlax tends to curse on a switch at +0 Jorgen
  8. Royal Flush

    Royal Flush in brazil rain
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    You should most of the time hide your set at the beginning. Adds pressure of not knowing whether its curse or drums, plus using your stab is always a safe option.
    And Machamp is not really a solid check unless he's Sleep Talking.
    Jorgen likes this.
  9. PDC

    PDC i zimbra
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    i really learned a lot from this, but don't you think choice specs machamp would be a better candidate than cross chop physically based sets? this way you can avoid the curse boost with the defense! and with machamps wide movepool, i'm sure you'll be able to beat it!
  10. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Cross Chop crits also bypass Curse boosts. Even at +1 with a KO in sight, Snorlax is going to worry about going for it.

    Despite its struggles with switching in, I'd be lying if I said Machamp didn't work at all as a way to deal with Snorlax. It's better as a second look than as a primary check, though. Also, Sleep Talk Champ is worthless except against the occasional team that doesn't run a Fighting resist. For active (rather than passive) Snorlax defense, you're better off using Curse + multi attacks and pairing it with Misdreavus to punish non-EQ turns. Both mons scare Snorlax right out, both require Lax to use different moves on the switch, and both are universally threatening.
    cookie and Pocket like this.
  11. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    I'm a beginner and even I can tell your "guide" sucks. Machamp is a decent check to Lax, but it isn't a counter (though if you can switch it in on Belly Drum, you're laughing). Misdreavus is just about the only thing that qualifies as a "counter", and even that's not great against Earthquake sets. Snorlax is just too bulky and hits too hard for traditional "counters" to work; the main ways to defeat a Snorlax that's already in are Normal resists with Curse+Roar (ie, Skarmory, Steelix, Tyranitar and Rhydon) or bulky Growlers/Charmers that can neuter CurseLax and stall out Curse's PP (normally Miltank or Umbreon; Miltank has instant recovery and Heal Bell, while Umbreon has Charm and stupendous bulk).
  12. Flamer

    Flamer

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    That awkward moment when I don't even play GSC and can tell you are either a really good troll or have no idea how to counter Snorlax.
  13. Bedschibaer

    Bedschibaer ['bedʃɪbɛːɐ]
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    What bugs me most is the word "counter". By today's definition a counter is something that can switch into a mon and create a favorable matchup for you by either killing the mon off or scaring it out. You can't really apply the new definitions to gsc anyways considering that the whole meta works quite differently, but a true "counter" for lax does not exist. As already mentioned champ does not simply switch into lax, lix/skarm do not appreciate fire blast variants, ttar/rhydon still take quite alot from EQ variants (surflax doesn't really exist in gsc), miltank/umbreon/lolblissey/other charm/growl users can't really do anything back to actually scare out a curselax, they just stall it and hope they don't get crit too often. Not to mention that a well timed lovely kiss does severely cripple all of the above mentioned mons. There are several checks to snorlax, but no real hard counters by todays definition.
  14. Kel9901

    Kel9901

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    this is a really great guide and should be included in the 'articles' section of gsc, but shouldn't farfetch'd be a better counter? It smashes a snorlax with its +6 return, which it can easily get with swords dance cause it's the most bulky thing in the game and can tank body slams forever.
  15. Conflict

    Conflict And who are you, the proud lord said That I must bow so low?
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    Hey ive used Machamp(Resttalk) on some offensive teams as a Snorlax check, dont hate.

    Although there are far more (and better) options to deal with a Snorlax. ;)
  16. Borat

    Borat

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    offensive teams are inherently a snorlax check in itself.
  17. Mr.E

    Mr.E im the best
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    Curse Restalk Machamp is a bamf.

    Double-Edge Snorlax is shit.
  18. MoxieInfinite

    MoxieInfinite Banned deucer.

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    There is no single counters to Lax, but certain combinations beat it. Missy + Skarm beats every common Lax, so does Miltank + Skarm sorta, but it loses to Drum FB Lax if you switch in on the wrong move I guess.

    All these Pokemon are viable in OU so it shouldn't be an issue, though I'm not sure how good they would be in a Snorlax-less meta.

    You could always go benny south street style, no Snorlax can reliably set up vs that kinda team.
  19. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    I'm pretty sure that BP team BSS uses loses p hard to Drumlax if his own Lax can't boom on it. He relies on AA Vap and/or CharmBreon to hold Lax off while he sets up.

    The absolute best way to stop Lax from setting up is to just constantly threaten Explosion (i.e., as Borat said, just use offense). Even then, Zapdos is going to be active at some point, Lax is going to come in on Hidden Powers/missed Thunders at some point. You need something to, at the very least, buy time in that scenario. Generally, on those sorts of teams, it's a Normal-resisting Phazer like Steelix or Tyranitar because they can actually take a hit (unlike Machamp, who is better at capitalizing off double switches against Snorlax than it is at buying time against one in a position to set up).
  20. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    Doesn't beat the all-out sweeper set (Drum/STAB/EQ/LK), but that doesn't have Rest so it's not as big a deal. Also doesn't beat ToxicLax (unless you run Pain Split on Missy I guess), but you can fix that easily by running Gengar instead.
  21. Borat

    Borat

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    but then you lose to eq variant. i suppose you can go missy skarm ttar miltank and gengar on the same team though, just to make sure.

    and machamp.

    for offense.
  22. Kel9901

    Kel9901

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    if you take the sleep with the ghost, skarm walls snorlax...?
  23. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    EQ variant of ToxicLax? How do you fit EQ on?

    I guess there is the DE/EQ/FB mixlax, though. I did forget that one. Not that Missy really likes EQ either.
    Yeah, but you can't force it to sleep the Ghost because 999 EQ is an OHKO on both. Being able to maybe bluff it into making a mistake doesn't equal "walled".
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  24. Borat

    Borat

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    vil runs curselax with de eq and fb.
  25. Kel9901

    Kel9901

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    You kinda can actually, switch skarm in first and lax can't really get past skarm without LK, when you switch to ghost to take LK and go back to skarm for the eq i guess.

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