-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
The Best Attack in Gen IV
- Thread starter Nails
- Start date
I'd go with Draco Meteor.
Has to be stealth rock. Every other move listed is a huge threat and potentially gamebreaking, but stealth rock is the only move that actually shapes the way the metagame is played. Stealth rock essentially defines the lead game (whether to set up stealth rock or block it) and is the single reason that certain pokemon like moltres are UU instead of OU.
Azure Demon
Guest
In my opinion substitue is the best (it is always on at least one of my pokes).
Do you know how many things I can do to you from behind a sub?
1. Focus punch
2. stat boosting
3. Baton pass
4. Block status
5. Cause status
6. Toxic stall
7. scout
8. Recover safely
9. Abuse glass cannons
10. Rape blissey:) my favorite by far
11. Pain spilt to make you lose health for my sub
12. Sweep
13. Leech seed recover (looks at jumpluff and efferum)
Pretty much I can trear you in half in 101 different ways
Do you know how many things I can do to you from behind a sub?
1. Focus punch
2. stat boosting
3. Baton pass
4. Block status
5. Cause status
6. Toxic stall
7. scout
8. Recover safely
9. Abuse glass cannons
10. Rape blissey:) my favorite by far
11. Pain spilt to make you lose health for my sub
12. Sweep
13. Leech seed recover (looks at jumpluff and efferum)
Pretty much I can trear you in half in 101 different ways
I voted for Dragon Dance because of JA vs. Gouki. That's all the basis I need.
Entei wishes it could be "that mon"
Do you plan on using U-Turn on every Pokemon?
Stealth Rock.
Hehe
Hehe
Other than Stealth Rock, I'm saying Aura Sphere because it's got a good blend of PP and power.
Stealth Rock, one of the most important moves in Gen 4 for sure. Must have move for any team.
I voted for Spore.
Stealth Rock easily takes second, because it while it may not be the best move in the game, it has certainly been the most metagame defining. Every Pokemon is damaged by Stealth Rock (except Clefable) and it only takes one turn to set up, which automatically makes a ton of moves (Eruption/Water Spout), items (Focus Sash), strategies (Substituete+Reversal/Flail), and Pokemon themselves unviable. This one move has the power to decide the fate of Pokemon like Yanmega, Moltres, and Charizard, who would all be a tier higher without it. It defines the lead metagame itself, you either set it up, prevent it from being set up, or punish the opponent for trying to set it up. Nearly every team uses it, damage calcs take it into account by default, guarentees 2HKOs and 1HKOs, ect.
However, consider Spore. It's so overpowered that it has to have a clause devoted to nerfing it's effects. Without Sleep Clause, the game would be completely different, despite only three Pokemon learning the move. Even with the clause, Breloom secured itself a spot as a top-tier OU because of it.
Compare it to Encore, another amazing move that made the options list. Encore's practical effect is giving you a free turn by forcing switches. Spore does the same thing, except that Pokemon is now incapacitated for the rest of the match. With Encore, if you're not fast enough you may end up encoring an attack. Or the opponent may predict it and switch. In both cases you just wasted a turn. With Spore, neither of these scenarios matter.
Pick a random NU Pokemon, and give it Stealth Rock. It's not much better than before, is it? But pick one and give it Spore, and it just got a whole lot better.
Look at Smeargle, the master of versatility who can learn every move in the game. What's the one move you can except from it? Spore.
My list would probably be:
1. Spore
2. Stealth Rock
3. Substitute
4. Draco Meteor
5. U-Turn or Encore
Draco Meteor should definitely have been an option.
Stealth Rock easily takes second, because it while it may not be the best move in the game, it has certainly been the most metagame defining. Every Pokemon is damaged by Stealth Rock (except Clefable) and it only takes one turn to set up, which automatically makes a ton of moves (Eruption/Water Spout), items (Focus Sash), strategies (Substituete+Reversal/Flail), and Pokemon themselves unviable. This one move has the power to decide the fate of Pokemon like Yanmega, Moltres, and Charizard, who would all be a tier higher without it. It defines the lead metagame itself, you either set it up, prevent it from being set up, or punish the opponent for trying to set it up. Nearly every team uses it, damage calcs take it into account by default, guarentees 2HKOs and 1HKOs, ect.
However, consider Spore. It's so overpowered that it has to have a clause devoted to nerfing it's effects. Without Sleep Clause, the game would be completely different, despite only three Pokemon learning the move. Even with the clause, Breloom secured itself a spot as a top-tier OU because of it.
Compare it to Encore, another amazing move that made the options list. Encore's practical effect is giving you a free turn by forcing switches. Spore does the same thing, except that Pokemon is now incapacitated for the rest of the match. With Encore, if you're not fast enough you may end up encoring an attack. Or the opponent may predict it and switch. In both cases you just wasted a turn. With Spore, neither of these scenarios matter.
Pick a random NU Pokemon, and give it Stealth Rock. It's not much better than before, is it? But pick one and give it Spore, and it just got a whole lot better.
Look at Smeargle, the master of versatility who can learn every move in the game. What's the one move you can except from it? Spore.
My list would probably be:
1. Spore
2. Stealth Rock
3. Substitute
4. Draco Meteor
5. U-Turn or Encore
Draco Meteor should definitely have been an option.
The main reason Stealth Rock is so good is that it helps to nerf the most powerful move in the game: switching.
Switching is I think the central move to Pokemon in every generation, and defines the game more than any other action you can take in a game. Stealth Rock tries to weaken that (and people switch as much as ever). I was considering U-turn, but it takes up an extra move (when you already have the ability to switch), and has no priority. Other powerful moves are Roar / Whirlwind (force the opponent to switch when they don't want to, but because they can always switch back, this is strongest when you can disincentiveize switching with entry hazards), Spikes (not as good as Stealth Rock, I'd say), and Explosion / Selfdestruct. I view Explosion / Selfdestruct as an even more offensive way to switch on most teams. A Pokemon is used up, but you don't want the opponent to have more time to switch, so just blow up. This will almost always lead to the foe wasting that same turn as you did, and you generally Explode when you think your Pokemon will be at a disadvantage, so putting your next match up back on more equal footing due to the forced switch on both sides is nice.
Taking away the ability to switch is the primary reason Wobbuffet is banned.
Think about it this way: If Pokemon didn't have the ability to switch by default, but had 5 open moves, how often would you not put switch into their move set? Just about the only time you wouldn't is if you had U-turn, Explosion, or Selfdestruct.
Switching is I think the central move to Pokemon in every generation, and defines the game more than any other action you can take in a game. Stealth Rock tries to weaken that (and people switch as much as ever). I was considering U-turn, but it takes up an extra move (when you already have the ability to switch), and has no priority. Other powerful moves are Roar / Whirlwind (force the opponent to switch when they don't want to, but because they can always switch back, this is strongest when you can disincentiveize switching with entry hazards), Spikes (not as good as Stealth Rock, I'd say), and Explosion / Selfdestruct. I view Explosion / Selfdestruct as an even more offensive way to switch on most teams. A Pokemon is used up, but you don't want the opponent to have more time to switch, so just blow up. This will almost always lead to the foe wasting that same turn as you did, and you generally Explode when you think your Pokemon will be at a disadvantage, so putting your next match up back on more equal footing due to the forced switch on both sides is nice.
Taking away the ability to switch is the primary reason Wobbuffet is banned.
Think about it this way: If Pokemon didn't have the ability to switch by default, but had 5 open moves, how often would you not put switch into their move set? Just about the only time you wouldn't is if you had U-turn, Explosion, or Selfdestruct.
Draco Meteor
When you have two Pokemon that can OHKO anything not steel/Blissey on the switch, you have either two Ubers or (for a good two years there in the middle) The Best Attack in Gen IV.
When you have two Pokemon that can OHKO anything not steel/Blissey on the switch, you have either two Ubers or (for a good two years there in the middle) The Best Attack in Gen IV.
spore is the best move. it's broken, renders them helpless, and has 100 accuracy.
With out doubt stealth rocks. Made SO many flying types have a difficult time. Sure Gyarados COULD survive some random attack that does 80% but with stealth rocks... It is so influential people freely give away 1 pokemon on there team just so people won't put stealth rocks on them and they will get stealth rocks.