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The Boot [Hyper Offensive](Peaked 2333)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by HerpyDerpp, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. HerpyDerpp


    Aug 6, 2013
    Just like you never almost see a team with 6 walls, you also almost never see a team with 6 all-out attackers.

    This team? It doesn't have 6 either. It has 5 ;)
    Before I give you the team, you might want to know that the 2333 ranking is provisional, after this team went unprovisional it fell to 2156ish on PS.

    The team:

    --The Boot--

    I started this team knowing I wanted hyperoffense. And hyperoffense means hazards, all the better to OHKO with. Hence we start with Deoxys-S. With deoxys taken, the two (debatable) biggest nonboosting powerhouses of the game are Kyogre and Groudon, slap those on. After my friend hit #1 in LC using a team with four shellsmashers, I knew that move was good... add cloyster. And of course, not team is complete without Arceus AND Palkia (seriously, I see more teams not using Kyogre than not using Palkia).

    What I like about my team is that although the pokemon movesets are not original (nothing is unless you're a total idiot), their movesets definitely deviate from the norm. The Boot is all about walking over the opponent, and since most people don't fall over easy, we first trip them up when they don't expect it. A brief overview:
    -Deoxys-S runs double hazards and fire punch to beat genesect
    -Groudon and Kyogre are both scarfed
    -Cloyster (obviously) shell smashes and is sashed
    -Palkia runs 3 attacks and substitute
    -Arceus is banded

    Get Freaky (Deoxys-Speed)
    @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature (+Spe/-Spa)
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt
    - Fire Punch
    Obviously, this is a suicide lead and you are looking to lead with it every time. Recently I've been leading with Cloyster if the opponent also has a speed form, since many of them run magic coat and there is simply nothing we can do against that. Go for rocks first if they have flying/levitate, but remember that one layer of spikes=12.5% damage while sometimes rocks only do 1/2 as much. This is pretty much the fastest Speed form can be (bar scarf), so if you do end up against another one taunt would be your go to option. Against anything that can set up rocks/spikes besides Arceus, I would taunt. But against things like Arceus, Kyogre, Mewtwo, its far better to set up. Even if they calm mind, it's the start of the game and we have enough physical power to take the opponent out. Also remember to taunt Darkrai because it is notorious for subplot/void at the start.

    Fodder (Groudon)
    [​IMG]@ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 Atk / 172 Spe / 84 HP
    Adamant Nature (+Att/-Spa)
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Fire Punch
    - Brick Break/Dragon Tail
    Before we look at Groudon, I'd just like to say you should NEVER run brick break. There is essentially no situation where brick break is the right move; I stupidly used this the whole time I used this team and would like you all to know Dragon tail is far far better.
    Where would we be without this lovely lovely Groudon? So commonly used for support, nobody expects scarf groudon (I remember a game against Sweep where he had a max speed kyogre, not scarfed, and I EQed the shit out of it, he was like "wow... i lose the speed tie"). Its stab EQ 2HKOs most standard sweepers, so when they are nonscarfed this guy almost always wins. Although the name Fodder may be misleading, Groudon actually is one of the first things I throw out. It's not synergistic with Cloyster/Palkia, and has numerous checks. Be warned that Groudon is not nearly as bulky as you think, 84 HP is basically nothing.

    Mac Daddy (Kyogre)
    @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Modest Nature (+Spa/-Att)
    - Thunder
    - Water Spout
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    This Kyogre is pretty much standard. For this team, it's a one-shot bomb; we throw it in and spam the same move until it dies. Like Groudon, it usually dies early as late game it sucks, however if the opponent openly has no Kyogre resists (rare, but some sun teams that lost Palkia), you can save Kyogre to sweep with Water Spout at the end.

    BOOM ROASTED (Cloyster)
    @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature (+Spe/-Spa)
    - Icicle Spear
    - Rock Blast
    - Shell Smash
    - Razor Shell
    Oh man... this baby has caused so many people to give up on the spot. Smogon's guide says Focus Sash has little merit in uber, but it beats life orb any day honestly. Multi-hitting moves breaks sash, sturdy, substitute, multiscale-everything. Its own focus sash lets it handle weakened setup sweepers gone wild like Extremekiller, DragonDance Rayquaza, and numerous calm-mind users.
    However, cloyster also takes the most strategy to use. He often falls on his sash upon setting up, so if the opponent gets hazards up we're a lost cause. Generally usage of cloyster falls in 3 categories:
    1. Opponent gets hazards up with a weak setuper (Deoxys-S, Xatu, Forretres), we throw cloyster in early and cut our losses. This is actually a smart thing to do, since if we grab a shell smash while forcing a switch we can take out a pokemon or two. If we wait, cloyster will die to some absurd thunder or something.
    2. Cloyster never comes out because opponent has too much priority/opponent got hazards up. Truth be told, some games never see Cloyster at all, since we won without his help. Other times We switch cloyster in on a thunder and BOOM he's gone.
    3. Cloyster comes out, shell smashes, ends the game. This is the best option, nothing is quite as clean as a sweeper with 2x att and 2x speed (besides Extremekiller at 4x attack).
    Note that boosted Jolly cloyster outspeeds a lot of things, including scarfers who have speed base 108 and under (Terrakion, Palkia, Genesect, etc.) Before setting up, make sure the opponent doesn't have extreme killer arceus, scizor, or rayquaza, as any of those will stop you hard. Forretress volt switch is ironically also a problem, since its typing means it will take a hit.

    Taylor Swift (Palkia)
    @ Lustrous Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Spe / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature (+Spe/-Att)
    - Substitute
    - Spacial Rend
    - Thunder
    - Hydro Pump

    Lustrous Orb is usually better than Life orb on Palkia, since it 2HKOS most things anyway. And because it 2HKOS most things, Palkia behind a substitute is incredibly scary. You probably won't realize it until you're in a real battle, Palkia(+substitute) just took out a pokemon, and you're thinking "how can I kill this bastard without losing a poke?" The answer is you basically can't (get a super bulky poke to phaze him or hope he misses hydro pump). I usually pull Palkia out late game, since between him and my fragile scarfers I'd definitely rather have this guy. Watch out for other Palkias and dragons in general, since most of them are scarfed and will dragon pulse your ass.

    Cake Boy (Arceus)

    @ Choice Band
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 Atk / 212 Spe / 44 HP
    Adamant Nature (+Att/ -Spa)
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Swords Dance
    - Trick
    - Shadow Claw

    This guy brings the cake home. 212 Speed EVs outspeeds max speed base 100's. Even though Choice Band Arceus only has 75% (or less) power of SD Arceus, it also means he doesn't waste a turn setting up. There are many pokes that force switches on Normal Arceus, and choice band means Arceus can switch in and out without losing power. Often, Arceus is pulled out a little early to take out some half-dead sweeper (CB boosted Extreme speed 2HKOs most attacking threats), then when the opponent brings something threatening to take him out, we switch to one of our scarfers as fodder. Arceus is the game ender, since he is so fast against most offensive teams he usually just goes Bam, Bam, Bam to all the weakened attackers the opponent has saved.
    Although trick can really screw up an opposing Forretress, lugia, or other wall, never EVER play mind games by 'predicting' a switch into a defensive pokemon while the opponent has a sweeper out. Trying to do this has led to a couple tragic losses. Extremespeed them instead, or shadow claw.
    This doesn't mean don't use trick when you can, though. Even against a Giritina carrying Will-o-wisp, locking them into it means you can SD once or twice and sweep a couple pokes.

    Using the team
    The goal of this team is to open a way for one of your sweepers to stomp the other guy. If you can get SR+3 layers of spikes the game is almost yours, since you can basically OHKO many pokes with Water Spout, EQ, Extremespeed, etc.
    Even though a suicide lead means you're essentially starting every game down 5-6, losing pokemon is far better than having all of your pokemon a little damaged. Remember Groudon and Kyogre are your goto guys when you need to sacrifice something. If the opponent gets rocks up, and they're offensive, cloyster is also tossable. The midgame is all about juggling Groudon, Kyogre, and Arceus around, keeping Arceus safe at the expense of the other two. By the time you lose both Groudon and Kyogre, the opponent should be in a weakened state.
    Cloyster deserves a section of its own. This guy can singly make or break some games. He can set up on more things than you'd think, don't be afraid to just throw him out there. Latios, Latias, Palkia, Kyogre, Groudon, Mewtwo are all things that will bring Cloyster down to sash but end up dying to shellsmash. When you pull him out depends on how many hazard-using pokes the opponent have (more means earlier) and how many priority users they have (more means later). There are few checks that aren't priority users, but they do exist: Dialga, Bulky Kyogre, Forrestress, Ferrothorn, Scizor, Scarf Shaymin. So if you see any of those don't necessarily save Cloyster, but don't expect him to end the game either.
    CB Arceus is almost always going to KO some pokemon, and if the game ends up 1-on-1 he almost always wins since he is faster and cannot be OHKO'd by a non choiced user/non haxer (actually lost a game on a critcal hit from kyogre). Cloyster once set up sweeps better, but Arceus is bulkier and just more reliable in general. Most people don't invest in speed on their Extreme Killers, so don't be afraid to pull this guy out on one of them.

    Common threats (in general):
    Extreme Killer-this team has so much invisible bulk (groudon, sash cloyster, faster cb arceus) that early extreme killers usually die without wrecking. I usually like when the opponent pulls one of these early because it means cloyster will set up easier later.
    Giratina/Lugia-Never, ever had a problem against these guys. Don't use Groudon vs Giratina since he gets burned, Kyogre wil kill Lugia (you did get rocks up right!!) before he gets t-waved. Also, these guys have nothing on cloyster since ice spear OHKOs them after smashing, unless shadow sneak Giratina.
    Chansey-If the game is still young, throw Groudon at it and force a switch. We don't want Arceus to get toxiced. If the game is late, Arceus is the ultimate Chansey killer, trick it our cb and set up.
    Kyogre-If it comes on our kyogre locked in water spout, just leave ours to die and finish it with arceus. Actually, just find an opportunity to get Arceus in, we'll kill it for sure. Scarf Groudon also wrecks Kyogres, although switching in on it is hard and if they're scarfed they'll outspeed us.
    Darkrai, Mewtwo, Palkia-Grouped together as powerful unbulky special attackers, scarf groudon usually handles them, and again Arceus is the answer to everything.

    Threats to this team:
    Scarf Terrakion- no Close combat resist and nothing to match his speed. Although Terrakion is rare, it definitely messes this team up. Best we can do is tank with Groudon or 3HKO with Arceus (2HKO really, since Close combat debuffs lets us finish it off. we can barely tank one CC). There was one game where I got a sub up with palkia on a t-waving kyogre, killed kyogre, then took out terrakion.
    Dialga- with as much SpA as Kyogre and much better typing, it's hard to counter dialga. EQ Groudon usually leads to switches into flying types, and we get locked into EQ. Usually Kyogre is sacrificed (spam water spout), then finish off Dialga with Arceus. However, Dialga might set up rocks, so if it has taken 12.5% (spikes) damage switching to Cloyster would be a better option (we OHKO with ice spear+shellsmash after spikes).
    Ghost Arceus-This. Is the bane of my team. Usually beats my arceus since some variants can eat 2 shadow claws, and much more if it runs will-o-wisp. Statuses the whole team, SDs or CMs up, recovers off damage, you know. Best I can do is spam Groudon and Kyogre in its face.
    Scotti likes this.
  2. Oopa


    Aug 26, 2012
    just a quick answer- its normal cos its not carrying a plate
  3. Edgar

    Edgar Best unit
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Oct 31, 2012
    Hey, after reading your analysis I noticed a few things:

    1. Your team cannot fight back against Arceus-Grass
    2. You didn't explain why you run Brick Break on Groudon so I'm just going to say th same as most people would do "It does the same damage as STAB EQ"
    3. Pretty Genesect weak too.

    I'll try not to change the team structure that much

    My first suggestion is to change Kyogre's set to the physically defensive set. It will give you something to switch in for a few threats that your team is weak to: Scarf Terrakion, Genesect, ExtremeKiller. Kyogre still keeps some offensive pressure even if it's defensive since not many pokemon like taking a Rain Boosted Scald.

    Show Hide


    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 248 HP / 242 Def / 20 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Roar

    The next thing I would change is Terrakion over Groudon, Terrakion is a much better Choice Scarf user than Groudon imo, Terrakion provides a second check to Extremekiller and something that unlike most of the team, something that Dialga can't stay in unless it wants to die, also helps to get rid of ferrothorn.

    Show Hide

    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide/Sleep Talk/Toxic

    I would also like to change your Arceus type to Arceus-Steel, Arceus-Steel will help you "take care" of a common weakness which are Grass-type moves of any kind. I suggest you to use Calm Mind Arceus-Steel, not only is underrated but it supports a lot of rain teams that are weak to Dragons.

    Show Hide

    Arceus-Steel @ Iron Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Judgment
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover
    - Substitute/Roar/Will-o-Wisp

    I would also change Cloyster's set to a mixed Shell Smash set:
    Show Hide

    Cloyster (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 224 Atk / 40 SAtk / 244 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Shell Smash
    - Icicle Spear
    - Rock Blast
    - Hydro Pump

    +2 Speed still outspeeds Terrakion
    40 +2 SpAtk Life Orb Cloyster Hydro Pump vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Arceus: 88.06% - 104.05%
    25% chance to OHKO

    I hope you like my suggestions
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  4. RotomPoison


    Mar 1, 2012
    ...Just no...

    Please stop with Scarf Groudon, dual scarfers is one thing, but why these 2? They're bad as scarfers completely. Why was Arceus banded at all, ever?

    But as other people have said you have nothing for Arceus Grass and Genesect 2hkos your entire team, so try Arceus Steel and try not using Scarf Groudon
  5. Haruno

    Haruno Too cute to kill people :]
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 29, 2012
    So uh what stops ekiller exactly? It can set up on kyogre locked into ice beam, set up on lead cloyster potentially, and after the sd it is essentially unstoppable since it can tank your banded espeed or better yet tricking a band onto a +2 arceus that just started attacking. Not to mention band arceus is gimmicky at best and is relatively worthless if your opponents ekiller check/counter isn't skarm.

    Terra wrecks more with a choice band since nothing bar groudon can take the close combat.
    Ghostceus is immune to trick but shadow claw 2hko's the switch but it still out speeds and burns/FB you
    Skarm is shut down.
    Gira-o is immune and most are 252 def variants but if you shadow claw the switch then you're fine.
    Gira-a is crippled but will still go for WoW and none of your team likes the burn.

    Honestly I'm struggling to see what band does that silk scarf doesn't do.

    Also 2 choice mons is questionable (and outsped by gene which can uturn spam) but 3 choice locked mons? There is no reason to have 3 whatsoever and really hurts your team synergy.

    edit: blackstardust listed pretty much all changes that I would advise
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013

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