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*The Celestial Meteors Of Above (Peaked At Number 1 On Pokemon Online!)*

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by STEELDRAGON, Sep 11, 2010.

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What would you rate the team?

  1. 0

    31.0%
  2. 1

    12.7%
  3. 2

    10.8%
  4. 3

    10.1%
  5. 4

    12.7%
  6. 5

    13.9%
  7. 6

    13.9%
  8. 7

    25.3%
  9. 8

    22.8%
  10. 9

    24.7%
  11. 10

    22.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. STEELDRAGON

    STEELDRAGON

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2007
    Messages:
    453
    No tentai ryūsei jōki no



    *Translation(Japanese):The celestial meteors of above *


    Introduction

    ------------------------------

    Hello Everyone! ^_^

    It's Steel back with another team. Anyways, I was trying to make a new team, that could end the battle short and sweet. I hated play stall or semistall. I wanted something that could rip up OU once and for all, So i came up with the team below. It pretty much rips right through most of OU, if not all of OU. Just the sheer power of a Choice banded Meteor Mash/Close Combat and Specs Draco Meteors just about pummel everything insight. The theme of this team is that all of it's members are Choiced. I have overwhelming success with it, and I love the playing style. I don't like slow, boring battles, and this team is making sure that is never going to happen. People may think that stall rips this team to shreds, but many members, of the usual stall team (spin blocker, Phazer, Spiker, spinner, walls), get murdered by the combinations of attacks in this army's arsenal. This team doesn't really care about Toxic Spikes, since only one pokemon is negatively affected by it, no weaknesses to Stealth rock, and 4 pokemon are affected by spikes This team a few months back was once #1 on Pokemon Online. I don't really care about my rating on the servers of Shoddy battle, because like half of the time the server d/cs on me, or lag makes me lose, or I get critted to a oblivion, etc.

    ............

    .

    .[​IMG].[​IMG] . [​IMG].[​IMG].[​IMG].[​IMG].
    ............

    A Closer Look

    ------------------------------
    [​IMG]@[​IMG]
    ***Sneezy***
    Heatran
    (F) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Flash Fire

    EVs: 6 HP/252 Spe/252 SAtk

    Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)

    - Overheat

    - Hidden power Grass

    - Stealth Rock

    - Explosion

    .....
    Set Analysis
    Heatran, the new king of OU, Explosion is mainly for Blissey, and is a emergency stop to anything that needs to be dealt with immediately. This is one of strongest special attackers in OU, and this is my primary Pokemon to eliminate the steels who try to make it harder for Kingdra. Being Steel type, I can switch in easily most times, and start reaping havoc. Heatran also makes it easier to deal with water types, because it's a lure for water types, so that Rotom can easily destroy most of them. CM Suicune usually falls to Specs Rotom. It has been a great lead, for me. Immediately pressuring the opponent to think up a plan on how to deal with it. I think overall is a better lead than Metagross because it packs more offensive momentum, and helps get the battle going my way. I really needed explosion since Blissey is occasionally troubles me. I really like using Specstran, it's Overheat OHKOes a whole lot of pokemon. I'm surprised I don't see more of these leads, they have the raw power to take down most pokemon. The flying types, most notably Dragonite, and Gyarados have a tough time switchin a Overheat with Stealth rock. Later on, I switched to a life orb, for most versatility, and less switching.

    .....
    EVs & Nature:

    Slightly different than the standard, 252 Sp Atk for overall maximum power, 252 Spe, out speeds all critical Pokemon. 6 HP adds a slight, though trivial amount of bulk. I choose modest over timid because I want all the power I can get.
    .....
    Other Options
    It looks pretty good to me.


    -----


    [​IMG]@[​IMG]
    ***Wishy***
    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Serene grace
    EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
    Jolly nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
    - Iron Head
    - Thunder punch
    - Fire punch
    - Trick
    .....
    Set Analysis:

    Another one of OU's revenge killers, and quite a good one at that. Jirachi helps keep the offensive momentum, with U-turn, or it can cripple a wall with trick. This is my main revenge killer for Swords Dance Lucario in particular and if Scizor has already fainted, it does well against Dragon Dance Tyrannitar. Fire Punch is also if I predict a Magnezone switch in, so they can't set up a substitute on me., and proceed to cause further damage. It's also really easy to switch in because of it's great typing and it's good bulk. Iron head hasn't seen much use, bu it's mainly for anything that slower than me, so I can abuse the 60% flinch rate. I have actually flinched a Magnezone to death once, haha. Jirachi is also one of my many U-turners, so I also try to get the advantage. I try to U-turn most times, to scout what their switch in is, and deal with it accordingly. So far, Jirachi has been a petty good replacment. Later on, I replaced Iron head, with Thunder punch to better deal with Gyarados.
    .....
    EVs & Nature:
    Really just your standard set, 252 Attack more maximum damage output, and 252 speed and a Jolly nature tie with other Jolly scarf jirachi, and flygon., the remaining 6evs go into hp, to help it's bulk just ever so slightly.
    .....
    Other Options
    It looks pretty good to me, may be switch Iron head for Ice punch or Thunder punch
    .....

    .

    -----

    [​IMG]@[​IMG]
    ***Rednessy***
    Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/10 Spe
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bullet punch
    - U-turn
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit
    .....
    Set Analysis:
    Nothing special here, here it is, the most used pokemon of the 4th generation, just recently got unsurped by Heatran, after Salamence was banned. Well basically, scizor is my main blissey killer. Scizor also helps me against Dragon dance Tyrannitar, Life orb Aerodactyl, Weavile, mostly the fast frail things, that try to sweep my team. Pursuit works great when i am trying to get rid of a leftovers Starmie or a weakened blissey. Scizor is my main status absorber, since it's immune to posion, and doesn't really mind that much about paralysis because of it's priory move. There's not really much to say here, it's your standard choice band Scizor. It really works well with my team because it baits in fire moves so Heatran and kingdra can fire away their super strong attacks.

    .....
    EVs & Nature:

    Basically, the usual spread, 248 Hp for optimal bulk, 252 attack for maximum damage output, and 8 speed to out speed other pokemon with the same base speed.
    .....
    Other Options

    It looks quite optimal to me.
    .....

    -----

    [​IMG]@[​IMG]
    ***Happy***
    Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 6 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hidden power Ice
    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball
    - Trick
    .....
    Set Analysis

    I choose Rotom because of it's resistance to entry hazards, as to any Choiced team, entry hazards are usually quite a big problem . Another reason I choose Rotom is that it has trick so I can screw over the opponent's wall (usually Blissey). Most people don't expect Specs Rotom, they think it is scarfed. Most of the time I just spam Hydro pump to damage to my switch ins, the usual ground types or Tyrannitar. Hydro pump also 2koes Swampert with SR. Rotom pairs really well with Heatran, and Heracross to. I switch in to ground, and fighting moves. Rotom is my lure for ground types, that trouble Heatran, and Metagross so much. Rotom is also my main Pokemon to deal with fighting types and other electric types. During late game, I usually spam thunderbolt or shadow ball, when I'm pretty sure they don't have any pursuiters left. Later on, I changed it, per the ratings I received
    .....
    EVs & Nature:

    Timid nature to out speed Lucario and friends. 252 SpAtk for maximum power, and the other 252 Evs in Speed, 6 in HP. I did try out modest, however, the extra speed really helped, especially for Gyarados and the base 80 group.
    .....
    Other Options

    It's looking good how it is, no changes.
    .....

    -----

    [​IMG]@[​IMG]
    ***Grumpy***
    Kingdra (F) @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 6 HP/252 Spe/252 SAtk
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Hydro Pump
    - Surf
    .....
    Set Analysis
    Hail, everyone to the mighty Specs Kingdra, reminiscent of mighty Specs Latias. IMO, Specs Kingdra is basically the top Dragon now, since Latias and Salamence were banned. It's OU's best Draco meteor abuser. It's doesn't have Stealth Rock weakness, and quadruple Ice weakness like Dragonite. Kingdra is the most devastating member of my team, by far. This thing get's like 2-3 kos per game. There are really no safe switchins to this (except Blissey CB lax, Shedninja, mainly). Since most Kingdras are Dragon dance, Kingdra baits out physical walls and easily OHKOes most of them. Most of the time I spam Draco meteor, or Hydro pump. Late game I usually just go for Dragon pulse, as a late game finisher. Hidden power Electric is for those evil Steel penguins, Empoleon, who think that they can stand in my way. Kingdra is a great switch in to fire moves, so it is has many opportunities to spam the OHKOes. Later on, i switched it for surf, because it's more reliably than hydorpump, and really quite helpful.

    .....
    EVs & Nature:
    Again, a standard spread 252 SAtk, to destroy everything in sight, 252 Spe to tie with Heracross, and Suicune, 6 Hp, to max out the Evs. I choose Modest over Timid because it maximizes my chances of getting many OHKOes after Stealth rock, for example 252 HP Machamp.

    .....
    Other Options

    There really aren't more options to make it even more scary than it already is.
    .....


    Damage calculations:

    (Modest) Kingdra vs. OU


    - Draco Meteor vs Wish Blissey = 32.8% - 38.7%
    - Draco Meteor vs Standard Dusknoir = 79.6% - 93.9%(chance to OHKO with SR)
    - Draco Meteor vs Defensive Rotom = 94.1% - 110.9% (OHKO with SR)
    - Draco Meteor vs CurseLax = 41.7% - 49.1%
    - Draco Meteor vs Defensive Starmie = 118% - 138.6% (OHKO)
    - Draco Meteor vs LeadPert = 77.8% - 91.5%
    - Draco Meteor vs Standard Lead Machamp = 89.2% - 105.5% (good chance to OHKO with SR)
    - Draco Meteor vs SubPunch Breloom = 173.9% - 204.5% (overkill, Dragon pulse will also ensure OHKO)
    - Draco Meteor vs Subsplit Gengar = 147.1% - 173.6% (overkill, Dragon pulse will ensure OHKO after SR)
    - Draco Meteor vs Lead Roserade = 111.1% - 130.9% (OHKO)
    - Draco Meteor vs Offensive Zapdos = 103.1% - 121.5% (OHKO)
    - Draco Meteor vs Wish Vaporeon = 70.5% - 83.3%
    - Draco Meteor vs Curse Umbreon = 53.3% - 62.7%
    - Draco Meteor vs NP Togekiss = 72.2% - 85% (very Likely OHKO after SR)
    - Draco Meteor vs Standard Shaymin = 88.3% - 104.1% (OHKO after SR)
    - Draco Meteor vs Bulky Gyarados = 81.9% - 96.5% (OHKO after SR)
    - Draco Meteor vs Electvire = 119.6% - 140.5% (OHKO)
    - Hydo Pump vs CB T-Tar = 91.3% - 107.6% (OHKO with SR)
    - Hydo Pump vs Standard Skarmory = 104.2% - 123.1% (OHKO)
    - Hydo Pump vs Standard Fortress = 110.5% - 130.5% (OHKO)
    - Hydo Pump vs CB Scizor = 91.3% - 107.6% (OHKO with SR)
    - Hydo Pump vs Scarf Magnezone = 112.1% - 132.4% (OHKO)
    - Hydo Pump vs SD Lucario = 123.8% - 146.3% (OHKO, surf also OHKOes, after SR)
    - Hydo Pump vs Scarf Jirachi = 76% - 89.7%
    - Hydo Pump vs Physical wall Hippowdon = 144.8% - 170.5% (OHKO, surf also OHKoes)
    - Hydo Pump vs Scarf Heatran = 169% - 199.4% (Overkill, surf also OHKOes)
    - Hydo Pump vs Special Defensive Heatran = 93.3% - 110.4% (OHKO after SR)
    - Hydo Pump vs Scarf Flygon = 103.7% - 121.9% (OHKO, Draco meteor or Dragon pulse murders it)


    These Calcs prove that SpecsDra is an absolute monster, I don't understand why people aren't using this. Specsdra, is one of the reason why I got so far with this team, it's really weird that people don't even put it in their threat List, it may be a rare threat, but it can fock up most teams real good.

    -----

    [​IMG]@[​IMG]
    ***Sleepy***
    Flygon
    (F) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate

    EVs: 80 Atk/252 SpA/176 Spe

    Naive nature (+Spe, -SpD)
    - Draco Meteor

    - Earthquake

    - Roost

    - Fire Blast



    .....
    Set Analysis
    OU's premier Revenge killer. Flygon is pretty much a requirement on a Choiced team. It's abililty to scout, put you in a great switch up, resistance to entry hazards, make it extremely valuable. Probably, my MVP. The first 3 moveslots are pretty much as necessary as breathing. The fourth move slot, varies, but I have tried all sort of options and I used to have Stone Edge, but Thunder punch turned out to be better, because Gyarados was a little bit of a problem, later on in testing i found roost to be even more effective than Thunderpunch, since most people won't think it's scarfed, and it will keep flygon around longer, fire punch is also useful, to hit Scizor, and Bronzong.. my main switch in to ground moves, and rock moves. I usually U-turn, but if it's in on something that I can pwn with Earthquake, i sometimes do that, just to keep my opponents on their toes at all times. i have found Life Orb Flygon to be weaker than I thought, however nevertheless, it's irreplaceable. It's my fastest Pokemon on the team, but its also the weakest of them to. Flygon is the Pokemon that I first switch in, because primarily because of U-turn. Later on, I switched Choice scarf to Life orb, for better wall breaking, and so that my team has a fighting shot against stall teams.
    .....
    EVs & Nature:
    Again, pretty much the standard, 6 HP for a tad more bulk, 252 attack for maximum power, and 252 Spe, so it can revenge all things it needs to revenge.

    .....
    Other Options

    It's all good.

    -----

    Formerly a member of the team


    [​IMG]@[​IMG]
    ***Zongness***
    Bronzong @ Choice Band
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/6 SpD
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Brave nature (+Atk, -Spe)
    - Gyro Ball
    - Earthquake
    - Explosion
    - Trick
    ............



    Conclusion

    This is my last OU team of the 4th generation, the best, even better than previous one. For the rest of 4th Generation (15 September 2010-Spring 2011), I am planning on battling more in UU, primarily, I am already having fun, with Specs Milotic :). That thing is like the Kingdra of OU. This team surprises the opponent, because they won't suspect all your Pokemon are Choiced, and some of the members are very rarely seen Choiced. I a bit too lazy to post a threat list, like that huge threat list I came up with last time. I've been playing since the 1990s, and I've always like the coming generation more than the current one. I'd like to shout-out to all the people who've helped immensely in Pokemon. Thank you, Vashta to coming up with great formatting
  2. Faladran

    Faladran
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Messages:
    1,139
    Hi STEELDRAGON, congrats on the #1 peak. I don't play PO nearly as much as Shoddy, so I can't really tell if there's much difference in skill level between the two, but well-built choice teams seem to do decently from my experience. I'll suggest whatever I can to help.


    Notable Problems

    (Note: This team utilizes a high-risk / high-reward strategy. As such, it can often overwhelm several opponents, and rather than specific threats, bigger problems may lie in Pokemon that can set up on one of your attacks).

    • Substitute users
    I think that you've got most stat-boosting threats covered to some extent, so users of Substitute may be more troublesome. Examples include Heatran, Machamp, and Gengar, who can each set up one certain attacks, and cause significant damage to another team member while behind a Sub. Albeit rare, the somewhat new Substitute Lanturn set with Thunderbolt, Surf, and Ice Beam can also switch in safely on several attacks and hit something else for significant damage.

    Suggestions

    There isn't much I have to recommend, to be honest. While the loss of power is kind of a turn-off, running Jolly on Flygon will allow you to outspeed Agiligross and check it, but Rotom does cover that threat to some extent.


    Good luck with your team!
  3. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,157
    This team looks good at a glance, though I have a really hard time understanding how you could do so well with only choice users! My first suggestion is to place Explosion on Metagross. This lets you get rid of any annoying Pokemon that doesn't OHKO it or isn't immune to Explosion, and it also gives you a great check to Gliscor Baton Pass teams. It may be unappealing to lose an important member of the team, but Explosion can be helpful in certain "emergency" situations. Anyway, why don't you take advantage of the 3rd most powerful exploding move in the game? (only Lickilicky and Snorlax beat him!).

    Also, what's the point of HP Electric on Kingdra? I suppose it's for Gyarados, but Draco Meteor OHKOs it after SR (even Hydro Pump 2HKOs LO variants after SR, lol). Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor hits other waters hard enough. Surf is a great replacement because you can still hit steels hard without having to rely on the Low PP and accuracy of Hydro Pump.

    Good luck, and congrats!
  4. Lady

    Lady

    Joined:
    May 1, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    Change Overheat to Fire Blast on Heatran. Overheat on ScarfTran is just useless; with Scarf you'll be able to spam Fire Blast. Also this team dont like switch so it'll be better.
  5. STEELDRAGON

    STEELDRAGON

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2007
    Messages:
    453
    @Faladran-Thank you!
    I changed the Flygon set to Jolly in order to get the jump on mainly on Agiligross. I have found it to be pretty beneficial overall. I've noticed that the worst substitute user that I have come across is Subtoxic Zapdos. I'll usually have to sacrifice something in order to take it down.

    @Super Mario Bro-Thanks!
    I'm currently testing Explosion, on Metagross, however, it means that it can't take on Starmie leads nearly as well, I also have Heatran for a fast explosion. HP Electric is specifically for Empoleon, who frequently switch in on Kingdra, and tries to set up a Sub or Agility, it also helps a bit with Bulky Gyarados. I am currently testing Surf.

    @ Lady-Thank you!
    Fire blast has been much more helpful, overall. now, i don't have to switch Heatran as often, and incur entry hazard damage.
  6. Denchura

    Denchura

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2010
    Messages:
    27
    have you tried trick on Metagross? intersting lead to say the least, i see heaps of trick scarf uxies and other bulky things.
  7. Deinosaur

    Deinosaur GO GOOMY
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    593
    My Rate

    Alright, my turn:

    Possible Threats:

    CM Suicune
    This can switch in on a Hydro Pump from any Rotom-W or Kingdra and then set up CM until it is impossible to take down. Especially the rarely seen SubCM Suicune can ruin your team due to choice items.

    Too Much Choice
    It is obvious that you have somehow miraculously avoided failure while using 6 choiced Pokemon. While this has givin you success, I see you falling to a Stall or Semi-Stall team with lots of entry hazards. As you must switch a lot, this can add up.

    Fixes:

    Change Heatran
    You may not like hearing this, but using a SubRoar Heatran may help more than CS Heatran. Once you set up a sub, you can remove Subbers and Set-Ups.

    Heatran@Leftovers
    Flash Fire
    252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
    Timid
    -Substitute
    -Roar
    -Fire Blast
    -Earth Power

    Behind a Sub, you can dish massive damage with FB and EP, while also roar those annoying Set-Ups or Subbers.

    Really can't think of much else that would prove to help more than hurt.

    Well this is my attempt at a rate, so GL and somehow, your team works well. Don't forget to ask me whenever you need a team rated.​
  8. Smith

    Smith is a 90's bitch
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,341
    I got your message and I love the team, I'm sure its exciting to play with and I've been trying to come up with a way to abuse Specs Kingdra for a while! Some threats, unfortunately, cannot be handled on a team like this- if you haven't run into TormentTran yet, he just fucks this team into oblivion, no chance. Substitute users in general are going to be problems, but again, team of choice, go figure. I think there are a couple of ways to try an alleviate this weakness, while still keeping with the theme. Trick users are obviously the first, if any of your other Pokemon can learn trick, please TEACH THEM. Stall will be a problem enough as it is. Metagross can have it over Zen Headbutt or Thunder punch. The second idea I have is to have an emergency phazer on the team, just to provide an additional "oh shi-" button in times of crisis. I know that's stupid with choice, but if the whole team is choiced, we have to try and make it up somewhere, right? Hence my next suggestion, which is to put roar on Heatran over stealth rock and stealth rock on Metagross over thunder punch or zen headbutt. Not only is setting up sr on the lead a much better option, it actually gives you a fairly viable anti-lead that can trick early and be used as a pivot later on in the match.

    I'm sorry I can't give more advice, I think you've peaked with this strategy really. Good luck, hope this helped.
  9. BKC

    BKC
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis the Smogon Tour Season 16 Championis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion
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    ^ you're kidding, I was just about to say Torment Tran cos one of my favorite pokes.

    Otherwise, this looks like a great team, grats on the #1 peak on PO.
  10. STEELDRAGON

    STEELDRAGON

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2007
    Messages:
    453
    @Super Mario Bro-Thank you again for the rating the team
    -I tested out surf, by I didn't find it really useful, and I always got walled by Empoleon. Also with Explosion on Metagross, I don't really have any room on the move set. It also lead me to lose coverage.

    @Denchura-Thanks!
    -I changed it to trick, and it's working pretty well.

    @BlisseyofDoom-Thanks for rating the team!
    -I have tested the set out, but it really weakened the team, because there are many times, when I really need Heatran to be Scarfed, more often than not, in order to take down faster threats. CM Suicune has'nt really been much of a threat to me, since Rotom 2koes even when it has a +1, however, if it's offensive Suciune, I usually have to sacfrice something, if it already has a Calm mind.

    @Smith-Thank you again for rating another one of my teams!
    -Yeah, Specdra is is a total beast, it's one of the most dangerous specs user, because of the dual mostly unresisted stab.I have ran in to tormentran, and if it's a smart opponent than it really screws up my team. I usually, try to stop it from setting up a sub at all costs, and if i'm not successful, I usually switch to Kingdra, and most times they will switch out, because they think i'll dragon dance, but if they already know, I'm the specs version, then I have to keep switching between, my own Heatran, and Flygon/Kingdra. I have put roar on Heatran, and it has really helped against baton pass teams. Stealth rock, has been really help on Metagross as well.

    @ Blazin Kickin Chicken-Thanks for the compliment!
  11. ShinyAzelf

    ShinyAzelf
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Contributor Alumnus

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    1,392
    Your team's not bad man. Its solid which explains how its peaked no. 1 on the Pokemon Online leaderboard. However, you are quite badly screwed by Torment Heatran, as your whole team is Choiced. I've had a Choice team before and it kept on losing to Torment Tran. I do notice your Roar Heatran, which could help but if it is dead before TormentTran comes in, there's nothing stopping it from ruining your whole team.

    This breaks the team's trend of Choice items but how about trying a Sub DD Kingdra set?

    Kingdra @ Lum Berry
    Adamant Nature
    4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
    -Substitude
    -Dragon Dance
    -Waterfall
    -Outrage

    This way, you don't get owned by Torment Tran at all, getting free set up on it as well. Sub and Lum Berry is there because you can get off a Dragon Dance while something like Blissey uses Toxic. Then you use Sub to block the next Toxic and get up another Dragon Dance before sweeping.

    Good luck!

    -ShinyAzelf
  12. comatthew6

    comatthew6 Uther's Noble [Ball]Sack
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    great formatting - the RMT looked really in-depth and appealing. I'd switch Heracross's CB to a Choice Scarf so it can trap Pokemon like Starmie and Azelf, as well as being able to outrun a +1 DD Tyranitar. Roar on Heatran doesn't make much sense; put on HP Grass or Dragon Pulse (although in some situations, Roar does work). Also, your team is, unfortunately, weak vs. stall. An enemy Rotom-A can come in on Trick, and with some prediction, KO Heatran or Heracross with HP Fighting (which is a 2HKO, but it outspeeds) and Overheat (same thing), respectively. I recommend your Kingdra to switch to a DD + ResTalk Set:

    Kingdra @ Leftovers.
    252 HP, 200 Def, 56 Spe. Impish Nature.
    ~ Dragon Dance
    ~ Outrage
    ~ Rest
    ~ Sleep Talk.

    [Choice Scarf] Heracross traps and kills Celebi and Mismagius
  13. Lucien Lachance

    Lucien Lachance

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    669
    I'd change up the set analysis for Heatran. It's outdated and provides no new information regarding the set.
    Speaking of heatran, why roar? Espically on a scarf set. I suggest using HP Electric >> Roar but you'll see why.

    Whenever I use flygon, i usually have him either soak an attack or just scout a bunch, so he is consistently taking damage. T-Punch doesn't really hit anything other than Gyarados. Heatran makes an execellent check to DD Gyara as long as they don't hit you on the switch. If Flygon often takes a beating, try Roost >> T-Punch. Makes winning that much easier if you can do that.

    Azelf said your team can't handle TormentTran without Roar on Heatran. I find this statement false. Just switch in Kingdra when he uses Protect and you break sub when he uses Torment. Lava Pump only does 9.6% - 11.3% and the only thing that really hurts is the chance of burn. There are several ways to beat it that just require thinking.

    Let's map this out shall we?

    TrainerX sends out Heatran!
    You use X move, probably FB on Heatran!
    You switch in Kingdra!
    Heatran uses Sub!
    Kingdra uses Hydro Pump!
    Heatran's Sub takes the hit and dies!
    Heatran uses Torment!
    Kingdra is subjected to Torment! oh no!
    You switch in Heatran!
    Heatran uses Substitute!
    From here, you have a choice, continue this cycle with switching to Kingdra, using Hydro Pump to break sub and then switching to heatran to slowly wear it down with Sub. Or, you can just keep Roar. Both ways deal with it fine. Just pray Hydro Pump never misses.

    Overall, the team is pretty solid, besides the TormentTran "problem."
    Good Luck and Hope I helped.
  14. Friar

    Friar

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    615
    Hi,
    Got your VM! I'm not exactly sure how "set" on Team of Choice you are, but I'm rating this like you want to keep it that way. Team of Choice can be very good as long as you know you WILL lose to stuff like TormenTran. Anyway into the rate...

    So, you lead with a CB Metagross. Perhaps you could look into switching Heatran to the lead slot? Specs Heatran is an absolute beast in the lead position, OHKOing strudy stuff like Swampert and Machamp, while being able to set up your SR no problem. Here is the set I was thinking of.

    Heatran @ Choice Specs
    Modest / Flash Fire
    40 HP / 252 Special Attack / 216 Speed
    -Overheat
    -HP Grass
    -Earth Power
    -Stealth Rock

    So, you know that with ToC you have a big problem of things setting up on you. Thats just a risk you take. However, by switching one Scarfed Steel / Psychic to another, you gain the ability to check nearly every offensive threat. By Scarfing a Jirachi in Metagross' place and going with Iron Head / Fire Punch / U Turn / Trick with a spread of 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed Jolly, together with Flygon you have every offensive threat covered aside from fast Agiligross (Rotom) and Agility Lucario (who is certainly a problem for this team, but rare). By using Stone Edge > Roost on Flygon, you gain the ability to KO slightly weakened Zapdos and Gyarados, completing the revenging duo.

    Id go with a Timid Nature on Kingdra and use Surf over HP Electric. While Empoleon does indeed wall you, you can revenge it easily with Flygon. Or, if its dead, sac something to Empoleon, then Trick it with Jirachi to lock it into Surf, then go back to Kingdra (not likely with Flygon's longevity but thats just shows it can be played around). Surf gives you a reliable Water Attack and so you dont have to rely on Hydro Miss. Kingdra wall Bulky waters anyway and can chip away at sturdy ones with Dragon Pulse (like Vaporeon), or just nuke them with the Meteor (Starmie). Hp Electric isnt needed.

    Rotom's cool.

    I dont so much see the use of Heracross, but if you like it then cool I guess. It does take advantage of TSpikes which could be set up which is cool. Id go for a more offensive spread though. Another thing you might look into is, say, a Specs Shaymin or Scarf Celebi for similar resistances. Shaymin is probably the better choice for Seed Flare and the lack of a Pursuit weakness, but Celebi does have trick which is cool. I think your stall goal would be get Blissey Tricked and then killed, so you might look into Celebi, but with Rotom I worry about TTar. Ultimately your choice however...I just think Hera's time has kinda passed haha.

    Anyway, nice team, very original...good luck with it!
  15. Psychotic..

    Psychotic..

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    Hey! Have to say im really impressed with the team. Congratulations on the high ranking with such a original team. To be honest i can't find much wrong with it as its almost a perfect choice team. Anyways on to the rate...

    First off i don't see a point in Heracross. True it has some decent attack but i think CB Scizor despite being extremely over used can be more effective thanks to higher attack, the difference is very minimal but with the current bulky set your running i think Scizor will do better. U-turn can also be a helpful move and a priority Bullet Punch is always nice, however if you like Heracross better i guess its fine. Here is the set

    Scizor@Choice Band
    Adamant~Technician
    ~Bullet Punch
    ~U-turn
    ~Pursuit
    ~Super power


    .....

    I think using a Scarf Jirachi would be much more beneficial over Metagross. Its overall a better choice lead and can also serve as a mid game scout with U-turn. Here is the set:

    Jirachi@Choice Scarf
    Jolly~Serene Grace
    ~Iron Head
    ~Stealth Rock
    ~U-Turn
    ~Thunder punch/ Ice Punch/ Fire punch

    ......

    Once again, great and good luck.
  16. Lucien Lachance

    Lucien Lachance

    Joined:
    May 16, 2010
    Messages:
    669
    Don't use fire punch for Scarf Rachi if you do use it. Fire Punch doesn't really hit anything outside of Roserade, Celebi (you U-turn) and the occasional steel switch in to Iron Head. Ice Punch is preferably the better choice.
  17. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,430
    *Yawn* Other Jirachi??? Lucario????

    ..................... Heracross has Megahorn, Close Combat, and GUTS, and only 11 less attack!!!! Come on.. Heracross' damage output is MUCH MUCH higher than Scizors. If you recommend Scizor, please say it is for threat protection, and not pure wall breaking or damage output. Heracross is a much better attacker / wall-breaker than Scizor.

    Anyway, how are we supposed to rate a team of 6 Choiced-Pokemon? Is there a specific strategy here?
  18. NightShadow

    NightShadow

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2010
    Messages:
    246
    @Luchien Lachance

    Fire Punch also hits Skarm, Scizor and Forry for SE damage.

    @Raikou Lover

    I guess its a choice team. Also, I agree with Friar on the SpecsTran thing. (as lead only though).
  19. Psychotic..

    Psychotic..

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Messages:
    45
    Yeah, I should rephrase that. I meant with the current bulky Heracross he is running Scizor will do better at being a Choice Bander. Also Scizor has a useful priority, scouting move and technician, .


    And yes, the theme of the team is choice items.
  20. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winnerdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Messages:
    3,083
    Rating by request.

    Hi STEELDRAGON, sorry it took me so long to rate this; I was on vacation for the last week and a half. First of all, nice avatar xD! Now onto the rate! As my close friends will tell you, I personally LOVE choice teams. My first truly successful team in DP was an all-choice team, and it kicked ass. However, over the course of the metagame shifts, all-choice teams have lost their potential, IMO. There are too many stall teams that can stop these sorts of teams, and therefore it really is hard to compete at higher levels of play. With that in mind, I hope you don't mind me suggesting some changes that require you to not use a choice item on two Pokemon.

    You obviously have offensive teams checked pretty easily with a team like this, but like I mentioned, stall is a huge problem. To help solve this problem, I would like to suggest you change Choice Specs on your Heatran lead to Life Orb. I think you'll find that it does a lot better as a lead, not leaving you locked into Stealth Rock, or a -2 Overheat. You can freely switch from Overheat to Explosion on things like Blissey, which should help allow Kingdra to do more damage. I would also like to recommend you change Earth Power to Hidden Power Grass on the Heatran set, because Earth Power is primarily used on other Heatran, who unfortunately outspeed you when you're using a Modest nature. The next change I would like to suggest is a combination change. I think changing your Flygon to a Mixed Flygon will utterly destroy any stall team in your way, and still lay down the hurt against offensive teams, allowing you to throw out Draco Meteors in combination with Kingdra. The specific set I'm suggesting is:

    Flygon @ Life Orb
    Rash / Naive, 80 Atk / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
    Levitate
    -Draco Meteor
    -Fire Blast
    -Earthquake
    -Roost

    With this change, you lose a revenge killer, so I would like to suggest changing your Specs Rotom-A to a Scarf Rotom-A. You should use the same moveset and EV spread, but with Hidden Power [Ice] over Hydro Pump, so you can revenge kill Dragon Dance Dragonite. With these changes, you leave yourself open to Dragon Dance Tyranitar, though, so I think you should put Iron Head on your Scarf Jirachi over U-turn. U-turn might be good for scouting, but I find that on all-choice teams, hitting hard is far superior to scouting through U-turn. After all, you only have one entry hazard, and against a Spikes stacking team, you're doing more harm than good by using U-turn. I hope you found this rate useful, and I wish you continued success with your team!
  21. STEELDRAGON

    STEELDRAGON

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2007
    Messages:
    453
    @ShinyAzelf-Thank you for the rate!

    I tried the various Kingdra sets, and I think the best one, is the Specs set, it just provides so much more immediate power than the sets, and just slowed down the momentum of the team.

    @comamatthew6-Thanks for the rate!

    I have tried scarf Heracross, but, Heracross, just wasn't helping the team as much as CB Scizor. Heracross was always getting set up, and Scizor limits that with priority.

    @Lucien Lachance- Thank you!

    The team doesn't really have problems with TormentTran because it's so rare, but when it is, it is often paried with TS, and other entry hazards. That waries down my Kingdra til it faints. Torment pokemon are no longer a problem since I switched Heatran and Flygon to LO. Also, I do see your point not to use Fire punch on Jirachi, however, it was critical since I found my self against a SD Lucario, when Scarf Heatran was already Koed.

    @Friar- Thank you for talking the time to rate the team!

    Specstran was overall is a pretty good lead, but later on I switched to LO because it does better against stall. I also switched Kingdra to Timid because it was much better for the team in the long run, since I was losing speed ties to other Kngdras, and Heatrans were exploding on me. I tried out Celebi and Shaymin, however, with out a physical attacker, in that place, i found blissey, to be a much greater problem.

    @Psychotic- Thank you for the rating the team!

    I tried out Scarfachi as a lead, but it turned out to be better as a revange killer. The CB scizor suggestion, was a great one, it helped immensely against a variety of teams, and helped a lot against the fast sweepers, especially Gengar.

    @RaikouLover- Thank you for comments!

    Choiced teams were once highly effective, earlier in back time. This specific team's strategy is to Overcome the opponent by sheer force, and prediction. The choice items, help to pressure the opponent, provide immediate power, and force switches very easily. Its a risky formula, however it has landed this team to Top the leaderboard. It provides a unique way to dismantle the opponent, peace by peace, until Kingdra can clean up with Surf or Dragon Pulse.

    @NightShadow- Thank you for the comments!

    Yes, this was supposed to a choice team, but along the line I changed it up, to adapt it to the current metagame.

    @Phillip7086- Thank you for rating my team!

    Yeah Jersey shore ftw!

    I really appreciate you rate. I have tested out your suggestions and they have become very important to the team's success.

    @Everyone who participated in the poll-

    Thank you for rating the team! lol ^_^
    32=0
  22. JSND

    JSND

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    951
    interesting team tbh i was about to make 5 to 6 choice team before but im just too scared of it especially after seeing the might of stall. This team loses to well played stall team and if you lost rotom and sometime kingdra too Gyara can clean up the team.
    I cant suggest what to use though(lol) and seeing how consistent gyara is as a top threats you cant just say its just gyara it sucks no problem.
  23. JSND

    JSND

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    951
    also blissey can prove to be a nuinsance to your team especially considering that except for flygon 4 of your team hates t-wave a lot.
  24. Shizzle

    Shizzle

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,481
    Look like a solid team, however I see no need for Fire Punch on Jirachi, what with Rotom, Bronzong, Kingdra and to some degree Heatran there, so run U-Turn.

    I also recommend running Mixed Rain Dance Kingdra, for 2 main reasons.
    Firstly Kingdra can find plenty of spots to switch in and use Rain Dance, and if Kingdra goes down early, Scizor can use the Rain very well, and is extremely hard to take down without STAB LO hits. The set is on the smogon analysis, the naughty natured one.

    Good luck.
  25. Aureolin

    Aureolin

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    Dunno if anyone has mentioned it yet... but..

    Your Scizor is listed as a Heracross hehe.

    Awesome team though, sim'd it against a friend worked well.

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