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The champion path: combined forces!

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by puking_rainbows, Apr 21, 2011.

  1. puking_rainbows

    puking_rainbows

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    73
    Making a team is always a tough task. During some time, I have been developing what it is now my team. I should note that I may not be the best predicter or the best player. In fact, I’m a bad player and my capabilities should be improved. But with patience, perseverance and hard work, alongside with practice, I think that’ll be covered. But gaming isn’t only about your own abilities, but also about your team, your mates. The fifth generation metagame is plagued by weather changes (rain, sand and sun, mainly), trick room teams(although I haven’t seen many), stall-based ones and other types of teams which made their appereance in past generations.

    With this team I have tried to cover some of the threats that exist nowadays, as well as trying to consolidate a solid and easy-to-use team. As I’ve said before, I’m not the best player there is out there, so when trying this team out on the smogon server I began climbing the ladder, but in some occasions mistakes made me lose points and thus ranking. This team has peaked at 700, but I know it can do better. If I become better at prediction and know better what my team members can do, I think things will improve by their own.

    I’m not perfect and this team has its flaws, as every team has. I ask for your help and guidance to make this team into a better one, one that can face the major threads that dominate the metagame today.

    So with no further delay, let me introduce you to my team.



    At a glance:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    In depth:


    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 284 HP / 52 Sp.Atk / 200 Sp.Def / 8 Spd
    Modest Nature (+ Sp.Atk, - Atk)

    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power (Rock)

    Heatran’s role is very simple. First pokemon to go out, sets Stealth Rock and then I can play my game. Most of the times Heatran doesn’t survive the second round as it is defeated esasily by pokemon such as Machamp, Politoed, Tyranitar, Lucario or similar. That’s why I put Explosion there, because It barely survives one hit and I want to do the maximum damage. That’s one of the reasons why I’m thinking to change Fire Blast to Overheat, because of its accuracy and power. Earth Power, as many of you can think, is to face pokemon like Tyranitar or other common leads. Drawbacks of using this pokemon: it’s the only pokemon on my team that has a fire-based move, which can be bad because if Heatran’s defeated I found it sometimes difficult to defeat grass type pokemon such like Serperior or even Heracross.

    Hidden Power Rock allows me to face Volcarona with more esase, as my team somewhat struggles to defeat him. With HP Rock I can face Gyarados and Salamence switch-ins too. Also changed Shuca Berry to Air Balloon because in this generation it's a more reliable item.


    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 8 Spd
    Timid Nature (+ Spd, - Atk)

    - Trick
    - Hidden Power (Fire)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thundebolt

    This pokemon is a beast, sincerely. It has helped me defeat many teams, bulky enough to survive hits, able to cripple Chansey, Porygon2 or Dusclops. It works well against rain dace teams and... well, I don’t know. I have always been esceptic about using the Rotom forms, but I just love this pokemon. It’s one of the most solid pokemon on this team, in my opinion. Trick is self explanatory, as well as Pain Split. A recovery move is always welcomed, and moreover if it is for a good cause. Survavility on this pokemon is almost a must. Hydro Pump works extremely well as a STAB, and can do a lot of damage if an opponent’s drizzle activates. Thunderbolt is the other damaging move on this set. Serves not only as a STAB but also as a way to face bulky waters like Vaporeon, Gyarados or Jellicent, although the latter may give me problems.

    I had Pain Split instead of Hidden Power (Fire), but as someone pointed out, getting locked into that move may screw me. Aside from that, Hidden Power (Fire) gives me far more coverage to hit grass types or even steel types like Scizor. After trying this attack out in a couple of matches I noticed Rotom-W could hit harder some pokemon than before, giving me a fairly advantage in some situations.


    [​IMG]
    Latios @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    Evs: 4 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+ Spd, -Atk)

    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Surf
    - Recover

    One of my sweepers. Never before did I use it, but Latios is pretty good. The EV set needs no explanatios, as it’s destined to let Latios sweep easily, but the moveset has been tweaked. Let me explain it. Recover is a must because of the recoil Latios suffers due to Life Orb, so if I want him to survive I need it. Psyshock is a surprise this generation, and I like it. Acts as a physical attack, but appears as a special move. It’s a bizzarre attack, but a cool one I guess. Serves as a STAB. Now here come the changes. Most would say that Latios should have Dragon Pulse and Draco Meteor because of the special attack drop of Draco Meteor, but I have found that with Surf I have an option to hit Tyranitar and basically earth and rock types easier. Also, the sp. Attack drop isn’t as important as it seems because Latios comes in and out and the stats resets each time I call him back. I don’t know, that’s the way I think.


    [​IMG]
    Virizion @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+ Spd, -Atk)

    - Focus Blast
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power (Ice)
    - Calm Mind

    At first glance I thought Virizion was frail, very frail, but I was wrong. With a little of prediction and knowing when to use Calm Mind in the right situation, this pokemon can become the nightmare of the opponent’s team. With the Special Attack boost from Calm Mind there’s almost anything that escapes this pokemon. Focus Blast, although not so accurate, is a powerful STAB move, as well as Giga Drain which also cures it. Hidden Power (Ice) helps me with flying types which do so much damage to Virizion, bugs, earth and dragons, apart from the rest of types which hate ice moves. The set is very standard, but it works, and it’s very effective.

    Changed a little its EV spread as they told me. With a little less bulk I can make Virizion faster so it can kill easier and faster threats that try to damage my team.


    [​IMG]
    Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
    Impish Nature (+ Def, - Sp.Atk)

    - Taunt
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Fang

    An impressive pokemon, indeed. The strategy is simple: first use Taunt, if needed (specially against Ferrothorn and its Leech Seed, but also against SD users). Then Swords Dance, as much as needed. Many times I have used it 3 times because Gliscor can receive so well damage and with the new ability given he survives better. With 3 SD he’s a beast. At last, Earthquake te foe or, as an alternative, just use Facade. Not much to say about this guy. Simple to use.

    I sacrified some of this guy's Defence EVs (and thus a little of its bulkiness) to invest in Speed. Doing this will allow me to outspeed Rotom-W variants, as well as letting me defeat Tyranitar easier. I also changed Facade to put Ice Fang. Ice Fang allows me to hit dragon types harder as well as letting me face opposing Gliscor easier.


    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+ Atk, - Sp.Atk)

    - Bullet Punch
    - U-Turn
    - Pursuit
    - Super Power

    Scizor. Very standard, but it works, and that’s what it matters after all. Bullet punch as a STAB and as a priority move, boosted with Technician, can become deadly sometimes. U-Turn lets me do damage while escaping in a critical situation, leting another of my pokes handle the situation. Pursuit for pokemon like Latios, which otherwise could do me a lot of damage. Super Power doesn’t receive Technician’s boost but deals a massive amount of damage to certain pokemom. As I said, this set is the standard set and works fine.



    Final words:


    Well, this is it: my team. A team made with love, patience and a lot of time. Mistakes that can be solved and errors that have escaped from my sight are still there. Lend me your time, if you please, you knoweledge and your capabilities to make this team into a champion team.

    All the changes made in this team will be bolded.
  2. Iconic

    Iconic
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
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    This is an excellent team with pretty much every relevant threat covered, so there's very little you need to change. The one thing that bothers me is your lack of Rock-resist, coupled with the fact you are really hard-pressed against Tornados. In the rain, it can just pummel you with Hurricanes and pick off most of your team, especially considering your only Flying-resist lacks any sort of reliable recovery. A great solution would be to slot a defensive Jirachi over Scizor. Not only does it give you something to eat CB Tyranitar / CB Terakion's Stone Edges, but it's easily the most reliable Tornadus counter in the game. It's also actually a better Lati@s counter thanks to Wish, so the only thing you'd be missing is priority, which is mitigated by your fairly fast team and your excellent synergy. In addition to countering various threats, Jirachi provides your team with nice paralysis and Wish support. Coupled with Iron Head, Body Slam's paralysis rate will actually let you beat Reuniclus most all the time, which was one of the primary allures to using Scizor.

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
    Careful Nature (+SpD, -Atk)
    - Body Slam
    - Iron Head
    - Wish
    - Protect

    Since, as I mentioned, you have most things covered, there are only some really minor things you could consider. Ferrothorn can be extremely bothersome since it flat out walls Latios and can easily set up Spikes against Rotom-W. You should definitely try out Hidden Power Fire over Pain Split on Rotom-W for this reason, and also because it gives you a more reliable way of hitting Scizor. Pain Split is actually quite bad when you're locked onto it, and it becomes especially less necessary if you decide to use Wish Jirachi.

    You should definitely try a spread of 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe on Virizion instead of the 212 Speed EVs you're currently using. So many Pokemon lie in the Base 108 range, and I think that tying other Virizion, Infernape and Terakion especially would be more useful than the small extra bulk. Finally, you should use more Speed on Gliscor since you're running Facade, which means you actually have a chance at beating bulky Rotom-W that don't invest in Speed. I'd try out 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe since it beats all Tyranitar and also outpaces most Rotom-W variants.
  3. Charro

    Charro

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    450
    Hi man, aww i was going to say the same as Iconic, the only weakness that i can spot on this team are NP Thundurus and SD Lucario with Ice Punch

    changing your Rotom-W for a spD Jirachi can help you to deal with it, and you can take everything that Tornadus can throw at you too
    SD Lucario is still a threat so giving more speed to Gliscor can help

    i'm just repeating what Iconic said p_p but here's something new, with all those changes you'll be weak to QD Volcarona if it carries hp ground, even when Heatran carries Shuca berry, your naive nature make it easier to kill with special attacks, +1 hp ground does 76.8% - 91% to your Heatran, and that's with leftovers, changing your Scizor for Scarf Garchomp (or Landorus if you want U-Turn) can help you to revenge kill it, and you don't lose your Terrakion and Dragon Dancers check (Mence, Gyarados, Dragonite, Haxorus)

    And that's all, i think that it covers everything, good luck with the team
  4. puking_rainbows

    puking_rainbows

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    73
    Thank you for your support and your advice, really. You can't imagine how it helps me. All what you told me here i will put it into practice and hope it makes this team better.

    @ Iconic:
    I really appreciate all the time you have invested into rating this team and the opinion you have on this team.

    You may be right. In fact, although I haven't faced many Tornadus, the few I have battled against were a pain, and most of the times they went over my team as if nothing. The only thing i could do at the moment was wait and hope for something to happen. I like the solution you give me: a defensive Jirachi. I have actually encountered some Jirachi these days and they annoyed me with their para-flich tactic, so I think it actually might work if I put it in my team. I see the advantages you tell me of this pokemon and will test it out.

    Apart from that, the other minor changes you sound very interesting. The EV spread changes I will follow as you have far more experience and know better what suits each pokemon.

    Regarding Hidden Power Fire on Rotom-W, I will follow your advice. Scizor can be troublesome at times, especially when Heatran is defeated, so I think it is a good idea to include that move. Pain Split served me to last a few more turns and although I actually never got locked into using that same move, putting changing it for Hidden Power Fire will give me an opportunity to hit Serperior harder, in my opinion. Serperior is a threat I have found over the battles I've had and it really annoys with its Sp. Atk. boosts.

    @ Charro:
    Thank you very much, Carro. Your opinion is really valuable.

    The only drawback I see with these is having 4 of my 6 team members weak to Ice moves, so I don't think it would be a good change at all. But I understand what you try to say. Thank you, really (:
  5. franky

    franky
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Messages:
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    hi puking rainbows,

    volcorona with leftovers will prove to be a difficult threat to combat in your team, especially since a lot of players are using it now in the ladder. i'm totally going to suggest something to scrap heatran all-together and replacing it with a specially defensive tyranitar with the moveset stealth rock / rock slide / flamethrower / crunch with the evs 252 hp / 4 spa / 252 spd with a sassy nature. crunch allows you to combat with rankurussu, starmie, and lati brothers. flamethrower for scizor and nattorei. i'm not exactly a well-seasoned rater when it comes to rating with evs, but this seems optimal for maximizing your ability to survive +1 lo or leftovers bug buzz from volcorona. the extra special defense definitely allows you to fare against specs latios, specs latias, tornadus and even lo starmie more comfortably. i seem like an echo to suggest this in most teams, but chople berry is definitely the item to use on tyranitar if you feel inclined to counter thundurus because i'm sick and tired of seeing nasty plot thundurus sweeping teams with relative ease.

    as for other options, you can try to reduce your weakness to skarmory and blissey cores. you can try volt change + hp fire on rotom-w over pain split and thunderbolt. between volt change + cb scizor; you can actually beat a skarmbliss core by pursuiting blissey and weakening it, or perhaps ohkoing it. hydro pump is your primary damaging attack anyways and hidden power fire allows you to hit and predict nattorei switch-ins. you can swap psycho shock for thunderbolt to damage specially defensive skarmory. overall gl.
  6. puking_rainbows

    puking_rainbows

    Joined:
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    Mmmhh... I really agree with you on the Volcarona weakness. It's not the first time a Volcarona has swept almost my entire team. It's true that if I beat it in team (that is, before it can quiver dance) I'll have no problem. That reminds me, some times, when the Volcarona was a lead, I just exploded my Heatran and could follow my strategy with no problem. The problem arrived when the foe's Volcarona wasn't a lead, and I struggled a lot to defeat it, if it was even possible.

    Including a Tyranitar would benefit my team in various aspects. I don't really like weather changes, but Tyranitar seems like a solid lead and has a good coverage. And don't worry about the EV set. I always have the same problem as you with them (:

    The only question I have is: Would changing Heatran to Tyranitar affect the overall weaknesses of the team?

    By the way, thank you.
  7. puking_rainbows

    puking_rainbows

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
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    I tried that Tyranitar set as my lead nad put as well a Jirachi. At first I thought it would get better, but it didn't reach the expectations I imagined. Tyranitar lasted and gave some nice sand support to my team, but that was all. Most of the leads I faced could defeat Tyranitar in a couple of hits normaly. Volcarona isn't as popular either or, at least, I haven't seen the moth lately. If I have luck I can keep up Stealth Rock to damage it more and hope it doesn't quiver dance. Either way, I'm curious of changing Scizor for Jirachi. Would that benefit my team?

    But now that I think of it, Scizor really is one of my few Blissey counters I have...
  8. puking_rainbows

    puking_rainbows

    Joined:
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    Hi there again. I have thought of some chages that I think would benefit my team, so please, bear with me. I haven't changed any pokemon, the only think I have changed are attaccks.

    1) On Heatran, as I have had many problemas with Volcarona, I changed Explosion to Hidden Power (Rock). With that, I will not only be able to KO Volcarona, but also hit harder on Salamence and Gyarados switch-ins. Question: Balloon or Shuca berry on Heatran?

    2) To eliminate my probable Tornadus weakness the only thing I have thought of is changing Choice Specs to Choice Scarf on Rotom-W. That way I would be faster and hit before. Not really sure if that change would be beneficial at all, though.

    3) On Gliscor, I have thought of getting rid of Facade and instead using Ice Fang. That will allow me to hit harder on Garchomp, Landlos and opposing Gliscor, as well as not making me a total Gengar switch-in bait.

    I know these are minor changes, but I need opinions on this, so I would greatly appreciate it if someone told me his/her point of view on the matter. Thanks for your time, really, and for your patience.
  9. Charro

    Charro

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    You can always try, as people suggested, using a Bulky Tyrantar instead of Heatran to lead and/or a Scarf Terrakion for Scizor that way you'll have a good Volcarona check and something else against weather, and you don't lose your Blissey/Chansey counter.

    I suggest that if you use Tyranitar put a Chople Berry on it, that way you can survive Lead Deoxys-S Superpower and OHKO it with Crunch.
  10. puking_rainbows

    puking_rainbows

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    I have tried Tyranitar out and I don't really like using it, don't know why. Maybe it's because I'm not used to using myself weather teams or the fact that I'm somewhat avoiding using a team where weather is used. But thanks, Charro (:

    I have tried the changes I suggested before and work fine for me. Are there any more suggestions, opinions, critics... ? Thank you in advance to all!

    EDIT:

    Now that I think of it... When changing Explosion on Heatran for HP Rck, his Naive nature isn't very beneficial as it hasn't any physical move. Which nature should I use: a more defensive oriented one or an offensive one?
  11. Arceus Nui

    Arceus Nui

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    I'm not sure it matters too much, but I think explosion isn't that great in this generation, because unlike previous generations, explosion and self destruct doesn't half the defending Pokémon's defence, but I may be wrong in saying that explosion isn't useful anymore. So keep HP rock and either choose a Timid or Modest nature, which decreases your attack, a stat your not gonna use anyways.
  12. puking_rainbows

    puking_rainbows

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    Yeah, that's why I changed Explosion over HP Rock, although it helped me sometimes. HP Rock is needed to face Volcarona because after a couple of Quiver Dance's it can be lethal to my team. Other than that, I put Timid on Heatran. I was hesitating to make it bullkier in some way or more defensive, but maybe it's more beneficial making it faster.
  13. puking_rainbows

    puking_rainbows

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    Trying a whole new EV spread on Heatran as it can set up Stealth Rock easily with Air Balloon and take hits better that way. With this EV spread I can resist an Earth Power from a non LO Volcarona (most Volcarona I have faced had Lefties). 8 EVs on Speed to outspeed other minimum speed Heatrans.

    Any suggestions, ideas, finishing touches? Thanks for your help and opinions in advance!

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