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The Chrono Trigger - Heavy Offense (Peaked #11 on PS)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Danger Mouse, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. Danger Mouse

    Danger Mouse

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    264
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    If history is to change, let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh. -Magus


    Disclaimer: I realize #11 on Showdown is hardly impressive. I haven't laddered in a few days, and I think I could have done better, but I have a crippling addiction to Civilization V. The fact that I peaked at 11 is just to emphasize that this team has potential. I hope to make it top-tier with your help.

    I. TEAM CONCEPT:

    Heavy Offense is a playstyle that can be best described as 'high risk, high reward'. If it fails, it fails spectacularly, but if it succeeds, your opponent is all but helpless as their team is torn to shreds. Prediction is an absolute must and you cannot afford to be conservative or you might lose your offensive momentum, and the match soon after.
    With the release of Genesect, I have been trying multiple ways of building a team around him, including sun and Voltturn, but I couldn't find anything that really WORKED for me, until I went with this. The underlying concept is simplicity itself: hazards, offensive pressure, and maintaining momentum.

    II. TEAM BUILDING PROCESS:


    At the very core of the team you have Genesect, the reason behind it and my initial starting point. Since his heavy abuse of U-Turn lends itself to a Voltturn core, but I didn't want to do an 'all Voltturn team' I decided to pair him up with Thundurus-T rather than Rotom-W. Looking for a good offensive and defensive match for Thundurus, as well as a fighting type, I picked out Keldeo. Lastly, Gengar was added as both a spinblocker and stallbreaker, while Salamence was designated as late-game sweeper.


    III. MEET THE TEAM:



    [​IMG]

    Give me your best shot...if you are prepared for the void!! -Magus

    Corridor of Time (Deoxys-D) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    252 HP, 4 Def, 252 Spd

    Stealth Rock
    Spikes
    Taunt
    Night Shade

    Your standard hazard lead. Deoxys-D's fantastic bulk, access to Taunt, and good speed make it one of the best hazard setters you could ask for. Simply Taunt the opposing lead (if it's something that's likely to set up on you) and start laying down your hazards. There are a few opposing leads that might force me to switch out Deoxys. Genesect and Sableye are probably the most prominent threats I've encountered. Scarf Politoed is also highly dangerous, but fortunately I rarely see it. Since forcing switches and stacking residual damage is part of this team's primary intent, Deoxys-D is of vital importance to me. However, I've been wondering if perhaps I could replace Night Shade with Psycho Boost? Tentacruel is a serious annoyance to me, and the only common spinner my Gengar truly struggles with (aside from Starmie carrying Hydro Pump, or in the rain)...and a psychic gem powered Boost might be an effective means of ending Tentacruel before it can do anything of note. Thoughts on this?

    [​IMG]
    Being alive means you're creeping closer to death with every second... -Miguel

    Tower of Ruin (Genesect) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Download
    Nature: Lonely (+Atk, - Def)
    252 Atk, 4 SpAtk, 252 Spd

    U-Turn
    Iron Head
    Quick Attack
    Flamethrower

    When Genesect first came into the metagame, its choice scarf set was widely considered to be its best option. Looking at its barren physical movepool, the idea of running a choice band seemed laughable. Doesn't Scizor do a Choice Band set better than Genesect ever could? The answer is 'not necessarily.' Genesect has two important advantages over Scizor: Download, giving him a free boost to one of his attack stats upon coming in; and the stats to be an effective mixed attacker.
    With that in mind, Choice Band Genesect is not only viable, but very effective in its own right. The biggest selling point is U-Turn. With a Choice Band and a Download boost, it becomes deceptively powerful. Many would-be counters to Genesect will find themselves being smacked hard by U-Turn, if not outright OHKO'd (especially after hazard damage). The main move is U-Turn. If not only hits hard with a Choice Band, it keeps the enemy off balance as you bring in a counter to their Genesect counter. If you can snag a KO with it, so much the better.
    The other moves are less used but equally valuable. Iron Head is secondary STAB, and though Steel is a poor offensive type overall, it still hits damn hard, and is especially useful against stuff like Mamoswine that are expecting something like Flamethrower. Quick Attack might seem weird, but it's more useful than you'd think. With a Choice Band and Download boost, it actually hits frailer opponents fairly hard. You will find it easily disposes of weakened faster threats like Infernape, Starmie, Latios, etc. It's actually saved me from losing a match on a couple of occasions. Lastly, Flamethrower is there for Scizor, Forretress, Ferrothorn, etc...though in all honestly I rarely have cause to use it.
    Genesect is a fantastic member of my team. I sometimes lose it to pure stupidity on my part, but its power and unpredictability are unmatched. Obviously, its worst enemy is Heatran, and its second worst enemy is entry hazards. Heatran laughs at Genesect's attacks, while entry hazards punish Genesect for switching in repeatedly. Should I make any changes to the moveset? I'm not sure if Flamethrower is really all that useful...

    [​IMG]
    The black win howls again... - Magus

    Silent Light (Thundurus-Therian) @ Choice Scarf

    Ability: Volt Absorb
    Nature: Timid
    4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spd

    Volt Switch
    Thunderbolt
    Grass Knot
    HP Ice

    The original Voltturn partnership was Rotom-W and Scizor. Thundurus-T and Genesect make for a less bulky but far more offensive Voltturn core. With a Choice Scarf, Thundurus can outrun most of the metagame, and with its massive base special attack, can hit plenty hard. Volt Switch is there for grabbing momentum while doing damage at the same time. Thunderbolt is for STAB that doesn't force me to switch out. Grass Knot is for the inevitable Gastrodon and Swampert switch-ins. HP Ice is there mostly for Gliscor and to revenge kill dragons that have gotten a +1 speed boost, such as Dragonite or Salamence. Though I lose out on coverage by choosing not to run Focus Blast, I find the ability to OHKO stuff like Gastrodon more valuable for me. Overall, he's a fantastic member of my team. He also partners very well with Keldeo, and the two of them together are fantastic for handling Genesect.

    [​IMG]

    There are two sides to every coin. Love and hate. Life and death. They are all the same. -Lynx

    Lost Child of Time (Keldeo) @ Choice Specs

    Ability: Justified
    Nature: Timid
    252 SpAtk/4 SpD/252 Spd

    Surf
    Secret Sword
    Icy Wind
    HP Grass

    Keldeo's an interesting Pokemon. Featuring identical stats to Terrakion (aside from their attack stats being switched), and a fantastic dual STAB that is as good in rain as out of it, Keldeo also has the honor of being one of the few special attackers who DGAF about the pink blobs thanks to Secret Sword. Most notably, Keldeo partners extremely well with Thundurus-T, resisting all of his weaknesses, while Thundurus resists all of Keldeo's weaknesses (aside from Psychic). This made Keldeo a natural fit for my team, as he also resists Genesects sole weakness (fire), and is a potent special attacker. Choice specs is the item of choice to maximize my power, while Surf was picked for accuracy rather than Hydro Pump. The 4 evs in special defense give genesect an attack boost from download, ensuring that Keldeo can survive thunderbolt comfortably. Even so, Thundurus can easily switch in on Thunderbolt, so the two of them are fantastic for forcing choiced Genesect to switch out and take residual damage. Icy Wind was chosen to hit anything 4x weak that resists surf, such as Dragonite and Salamence. HP Grass is strictly for any Gastrodon, Vaporeon, or Jellicent that try to switch in. Being able to catch Gastrodon by surprise is especially useful.

    [​IMG]
    (Image courtesy of DeviantArt. I find it absolutely hilarious, and had to use it - apologies to Pikachu lovers)

    For you there will be no tomorrow! - Zeal

    Black Omen (Gengar) @ Black Sludge

    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Timid
    4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spd

    Shadow Ball
    Focus Blast
    Substitute
    Disable

    Gengar is my favorite pokemon, yet I have not often given him a serious shot on my team. However, now that I'm actually giving him a try, I find him to be a major asset. He fulfills a number of roles for me. With SubDisable, he shuts down choiced attackers and walls comfortably, and can be frustrating for an opponent to get around. He can also block rapid spins when he needs to, and can take out most spinners 1 on 1. Even Starmie loses to Gengar unless it's packing hydro pump or rain is up (Gengar can take a surf or scald at full health, while Starmie is always 1HKO'd by Shadow Ball). Since Gengar's role on the team is specialized, I can comfortably use him as sleep or death fodder if need be (that is to say, once he's done his job). Also of note, he can take down Latios (especially Latios that is running an HP that lowers their speed IV), which is useful for my team if I don't want to bring in Salamence yet.

    [​IMG]

    A future that was destroyed before it was even born lies here - condensed into the Dead Sea. - Miguel

    Star Stealing Girl (Salamence) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Moxie
    Nature: Naive (+Spe, - SpD)
    252 Atk/4 SpAtk/252 Spd

    Outrage
    Dragon Claw
    Earthquake
    Fire Blast

    Here it is, my late game cleaner. I typically bring him out to finish a match, and he does that exceptionally well. With a Choice Scarf, he outspeeds most threats (especially late game), and thanks to moxie, every KO just grants him more momentum. Outrage is for more power, Dragon Claw if I want to be able to switch out. Earthquake is for stuff like magnezone or Heatran, while Fire Blast roasts the steel bugs and Skarmory. I try my absolute hardest to keep mence off the field until I'm ready to have him sweep, because I don't like to take unnecessary risks with him. Losing him early in the match seriously compromises my overall strategy. I might use him early in the match if I really need to pick off a +1 Dragonite or Haxorus, though.

    IV. TEAM STRATEGY:
    1.) Attempt to lay hazards with Deoxys-D. If they have something out that prevents that, try and force it out and create a safe switch in for Deoxys. This doesn't always work, and sometimes I lose Deoxys without getting hazards on the field, or I'm unable to prevent them from spinning. I also try to predict when the enemy will try to lay their own hazards and taunt to prevent them. My team doesn't like switching into hazards very much, so keeping them off the field really helps.
    2.) Apply pressure to the enemy team. If a slower choiced enemy or a wall comes in, use Gengar to wear them down or force them out, or to block a rapid spin. Use Genesect and Thunudurs to force switches, with Keldeo as needed to wear down what the other team members can't handle.
    3.) Once the enemy team is sufficiently weakened by a combination of hazard damage and wallbreaking, bring in Salamence to finish the game. Obviously, Mamoswine and Weavile need to be removed first.

    V. MAJOR THREATS:

    This team wins quite consistently. Most of my losses have generally been due to either A.) being overly cautious or B.) making sloppy predictions which cost me a key member of the team. Very rarely do I lose due to a particular poke or playstyle. There are, however, some major threats I've noticed.
    A.) VOLCARONA: Timid Volcarona is the absolute worst, especially as a lead, and I have significant problems dealing with it if I let it boost or if Keldeo goes down.
    B.) CHOICE SCARF KELDEO IN RAIN: Sweeps my team so fast it's not even funny.
    C.) CELEBI: Really, Gengar is the only member of my team that can consistently deal with this jerk thanks to sub blocking thunder wave.
    D.) FERROTHORN IN RAIN: A serious pain to deal with, especially if it's carrying thunder wave. Again, I usually need to have Gengar deal with it, but Keldeo can also perform decently well.
    E.) VENUSAUR, DEPENDING ON ITS SET: If Venusaur is packing HP Fire or Earthquake, I'm going to struggle to beat it. If not, it won't be a major threat to me. Other Chlorophyll sweepers are much more manageable.

    IN CONCLUSION: I love this team. I haven't had so much fun battling in a long time, to be honest. However, I think some minor tweaks could help this team be even better. I'd rather not entirely get rid of a member of my team (especially Gengar), but if you have any solid moveset changes or a different poke that would REALLY help patch up any weaknesses, feel free to share. Your help is, as always, greatly appreciated.

    (All quotes are from either Chrono Trigger or Chrono Cross, two of the best RPGs ever made. All nicknames are the titles of some of the best tracks from the OSTs of either game, fantastic names referencing fantastic music.)
  2. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    799
    How about using Choice Scarf Terrakion? It solves your problem with Volcarona (watch out for HP Ground, though, but Volcarona is outsped even at +1 and KOed by Stone Edge), can outspeed and KO Celebi with X-Scizzor and deals with Ferrothorn if you manage to avoid TWave, Gyro Ball and Power Whip.

    Venusaur, I can imagine your own Salamence dealing with it anyway. Outside of sun, it is manageable however.
  3. -Rockstar-

    -Rockstar-

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    239
    Hi there.This looks like a really fun offensive team and I'll be trying it out later for sure, looks like you got most threats covered but a well played Volcarona can really give you some trouble however a simple fix of replacing your current Choice Scarf Thundurus T with a Choice Scarf Terrakion should be able to do the trick for your team, not only do you gain the ability to beat Volcarona which troubles you but it also makes your team much less weak to SR then it is at the moment as you have no spinner, i wont be suggesting a spinner as they are hardly seen on Hyper Offense teams and I want you to keep the Hyper Offense theme up.One more nitpick I have is that maybe you want to replace Hidden Power Grass with Hidden power Ghost on your Keldeo, the only thing you really need Hidden Power Grass for is Gastrodon but with a Specs boosted secret Sword you should be able to handle it pretty well, Hidden Power Ghost give you the luxury to hit Jellicent and Slowbro for good damage too which is pretty cool.You also might wanna replace Quick Attack with Zen Headbutt on Genesect to get some super effective coverage on the likes of Tentacruel and Gengar as they switch into take a U-Turn.

    Sets (open)
    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf | Justifed
    Nature | 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Close Combat | Stone Edge | Earthquake | X-Scissor


    Overall this team looks really good and good luck with it.
  4. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    799
    Earthquake shouldn't be used. It has redundant coverage with Close Combat, and a super-effective Earthquake is only slighty more powerful than a neutral Close Combat. The only use that I think that it has is to hit Nidoking, Nidoqueen or Toxicroak, but each of them aren't that threatening to bother using Earthquake. Instead, this moveslot can be occupied by other options, such as Rock Slide (there are times that the accuracy would be preffered over power), Sacred Sword (to deal with Curse/Bulk Up users), Double Kick (to break substitutes and attack), or even Stealth Rock (doing so lets Deoxys-D use something in place of Stealth Rock, such as Toxic, but Deoxys-D is more effective at using Stealth Rock).

    Earthquake could be theorically used instead of Close Combat when you don't want to lower your defenses. But you can just use Sacred Sword for this, and you don't want giving your opponent a free turn if they switch a thing that is immune to Ground.

    On your Keldeo, if you don't want to use neither HP Grass nor HP Ghost, you can use HP Electric. It's for killing Gyarados and Tentacruel, wich resists both of your STABs and laugh at both HP Grass and HP Ghost. You don't need to worry about Quagsire and Swampert as both are killed by Hydro Pump anyway, and Gastrodon can me managed with Secret Sword.
  5. Arceus Nui

    Arceus Nui

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2011
    Messages:
    54
    Hey there! I'm not really experienced, but I saw that you couldn't decide whether or not to put Psycho Boost over Night Shade, and I think you should. Once again, I'm not very experienced, but I'm assuming Deo-D has the same role as Deo-S (suicide lead) so Deo isn't going to be living very long, so the SpA drop and lack of lefties doesn't matter. If I haven't convinced you enough, your team would greatly appreciate the removal of Tentacruel, so he can't slin your hazards,like you said, and even if the opponent doesn't have a Tentacreul, it can get off a powerful hit before it dies.

    Hope I helped and good luck with the team!
  6. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

    Joined:
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    Hey Danger Mouse, nice team. Chrono Trigger is such an amazing game!

    You've provided a good threatlist, so I'll try and fix some of the threats listed on there without changing too much. First of all, if Genesect is walled by Heatran and never uses Flamethrower, you could run Hidden Power [Ground] over Flamethrower on Genesect. This move is pretty weak and is only really useful against Heatran, but if you really don't use Flamethower too often it's an option.

    To help with your Ferrothorn under rain problem you could try Focus Blast over Thunderbolt on Thundurus-T, Volt Switch hits with a good amount of power anyway and although you won't always want to switch out, your team has enough synergy to Volt Switch out to the appropriate counter for the pokemon in front of you. But Focus Blast isn't limited only for Ferrothorn, it also provides some of the best coverage in the game, hitting Abomasnow, Heatran, Magnezone etc. For super effective damage.

    Your Venusaur and Keldeo problem can be patched up with Thunder Wave over Night Shade on Deoxys-D. Although Night Shade will let Deoxys-D attack when Taunted, not be completely walled by Magic Bouncers etc. Thunder Wave will let you paralyze Keldeo thinking it can 2HKO you, rendering it useless for the remainder of the match and Venusaur can only 2HKO you after a Growth boost, so Deoxys-D can switch in and Paralyse it ending their sweep.

    Anyway I hope this rate helped and GL with the team! Lucdisc'd :)
  7. Camisado

    Camisado

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    134
    What if you ran a Skarmory over Deo D? Have it EV'ed to OHKO Volcarona with BB- it'll help answer Celebi and Keldeo, too. Sturdy even helps assure you you'll at least get one swing.

    The only downside is Spikes/Srock/Taunt/Brave Bird misses out on Roost (and to a lesser extend Whirlwind)
  8. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    510
    Hi there,

    Solid Hyper Offensive team you have here, there is little to change given how offensive teams like this rely on their synergy, so good job with that. One thing I did notice, and you mentioned, was the apparent Volcarona weakness. It has no problem setting up on choice locked Keldeo or Thundurus-T, or even Genesect who cannot do anything to Volcarona. Your only option is to hope you have Stealth Rock up and revenge it with Salamence, or hope Volcarona switches in the same turn Keldeo is in so you can hit it with a Surf to get rid of it. Looking over your team, I'm really questioning your Keldeo's set. Hidden Power [Grass] looks like redundant coverage, given that your Thundurus-T also has Grass Knot to deal with the likes of Quagsire and Gastrodon. Not to mention that Gastrodon and Quagsire are both 2HKO'd by Secret Sword and Surf respectively, so the coverage really isn't necessary. I really think you should try Hydro Pump or Hidden Power [Dark] over Hidden Power [Grass]. Both of these have their own benefits, as Hydro Pump allows you to still break through Volcarona after a Quiver Dance or two, which is great because Keldeo resists both of Volcarona's STAB options and will need a couple of boosts to OHKO Keldeo. Hidden Power [Dark] on the other hand is another option to hit Celebi who often switches into Keldeo, as well as hitting all of Keldeo's common "counters", namely Jellicent and Latias too. Hidden Power [Dark] 2HKOs Max HP variants of Celebi on the switch which is great given that it seems Celebi causes you some problems.

    Given that this is a hyper offensive team, and you have no spinner, you will try to do your best to keep hazards off your side of the field. While Deoxys-D does an okay job of keeping hazards off the field, faster users of Stealth Rock will still get guaranteed hazards up, no matter what. I think you should consider Magic Coat > Night Shade on Deoxys-D to keep said hazards off your side of the field. While you may think losing Night Shade puts Deoxys in a position where it is easy setup fodder, Taunt already shuts down opponents from trying to set up. Like I said before, you lack a Rapid Spinner which heavily limits your Thundurus-T switch ins, as you take 25% from switching in. While Psycho Boost is a good option to hit Tentacruel, you really shouldn't be giving Tentacruel opportunities to Spin, and you can easily pivot switch to Gengar and then into Thundurus to easily remove Tentacruel.

    Finally, I noticed something on your Genesect set that could help you against some of the threats you mentioned. Trying Explosion over Flamethrower would be a good choice imo. Explosion OHKOs 4/5 of the threats you listed, while also keeping momentum in your favor. It's also good for times when you need a free switch into something / need prior damage on something to revenge it. Having tested Choice Band Genesect myself, I can definitely attest to the effectiveness of Explosion, grabbing a surefire kill against anything that isn't Rock, Steel or Ghost type is a really good option to remove annoying walls that stand in the way of Keldeo and Salamence. I'm really questioning the effectiveness of Flamethrower. You even said you have rarely had to use it, Ferrothorn / Forretress are not going to be staying in fearing a Flamethrower anyway, so you can U-Turn out to put Ferrothorn in killing range for Keldeo, or break Forretress's sturdy so Thundurus can deal with it.

    Good luck!
  9. Danger Mouse

    Danger Mouse

    Joined:
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    Wow, those are some fantastic suggestions! I agree that when looking at it, Keldeo doesn't really need HP Grass and would rather have more coverage. Also, Explosion over flamethrower is an excellent suggestion. I pretty much never have a reason to use it, and if I ditched flamethrower i could ditch the defense-lowering nature and go Adamant. Also, Magic coat is an excellent option if something comes in that's too fast for Deo-D to taunt. I'm almost certainly going to try all of these changes, thanks :)

    Also, for other suggestions - Terrakion seems interesting but I still like the Keldeo + Thundurus combo too much to give it up yet. I will keep that in mind though, thanks everybody. :)
  10. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Choice Band genesect? You just made my day. Luvdic'ed. Just use explosion over flamethrower and go adamant ;p;

    Love the team btw, js
  11. Zentrius

    Zentrius

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
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    97
    I agree with Jimbon about Hidden Power [Dark]. However, you should use Hidden Power [Ghost], since it hits basically the same Dark does, bu by using ghost you prevent activating Justified on the musketeers.

    Good Luck with the team, this is everything I would recommend you. Luvdics'd.
  12. Danger Mouse

    Danger Mouse

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    Thanks :) I appreciate the luvdiscs, first time one of my teams has been halfway decent :)

    Also, yeah, HP Ghost might be slightly better for Keldeo, I'll have to test it out and see if Dark is a liability for me...
  13. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Just saying, HP Dark gives you 31 IVs all around, and since usually Terrak won't switch in on Keldeo, and if your choice locked you'll switch out anyways, hp ghost isn't needed. Virizion is like, almost never used and they're usually special anyways. HP Dark maintains 31 IVs so I would just stick with that.
  14. MMX

    MMX

    Joined:
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    HP Ghost > HP Dark. Ghost does everything Dark does, as well as hitting Toxicroak and avoiding the activation of Justified.
  15. Danger Mouse

    Danger Mouse

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    To be honest, I rarely am forced to use the coverage moves anyway...i'd rather switch out than stay in and use something weak like icy wind if i'm not sure it'll KO.

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